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Why pure dps short fights more exciting then longer ones?

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Earthan Gallente GREY COUNCIL Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.02 20:51:00 - [1] I dont quite get the whinage about logistics ships , that watching is boring. Imho most of time watching the logistics try to rep in time , enemies trying to jamm them , to break the chain of repping, or switch targets to confound the logistics is really interesting and exciting.... Look at KIA fight against MORUS Mihi watchign it was great, obserbving how teams reacted... Whats that funny at 10 dps ships aaginst 10 dps setups just shooting primaries without any more complicated stuff?Would you like to watch that plain fights? - Killing Eve bullies all over the galaxy hunting stories
Lazal Nahn Amarr Nebula Rasa Vanguard Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2008.03.02 20:53:00 - [2] Totally agree! Its just boring to see 2 gank teams blow the **** out of eachother in 1.5 mins.
gusta The Hoodie Mafia Cosa Nostra.	Posted - 2008.03.02 20:56:00 - [3] I agree as well, it comes down to your working as a team. however its also nice to see teams field different set ups.
Lebowske Nosferatu Security Foundation	Posted - 2008.03.02 20:58:00 - [4] Yes, it's interesting to see the logistics in use, and the teams managing to keep eachother alive. Don't now why there's so much whining about "logistics booring", but I guess some people preffers to watch ganks, others tactics. -------------------- - It's better to keep your mouth shut and let people believe you're an idiot, rather than opening it and removing all doubt.
X99 Z990	Posted - 2008.03.02 20:59:00 - [5] That KIA vs Morsus mihi fight was amazing to watch. Possibly even my favorite so far. Looked so risky early on. -- The match before. Dual Logistics + Stealth bombers = MEH. I was happy to watch them lose. Depends what else they field other than dual logistics i guess, 2 logistics doesnt make a team automatically win.
Krasnij Okjabre Caldari Havoc Inc Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.03.02 20:59:00 - [6] Because, perhaps from the viewers POV... it's incredibly dull to watch. I think 90% of us (guesstimate) likie to watch the pretty lights, hear the explosions and see a fight. Not a rep-fest... You'd be amazed how fast a cast lives run out when you have a hammer.
Earthan Gallente GREY COUNCIL Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:02:00 - [7] Originally by: Krasnij Okjabre Because, perhaps from the viewers POV... it's incredibly dull to watch. I think 90% of us (guesstimate) likie to watch the pretty lights, hear the explosions and see a fight. Not a rep-fest... Have you seen the match of KIA v morsus mihi , woudl you call it boring?And it was rep fest. No offence but maybe those who say its boring doent understand whats going on the screen? - Killing Eve bullies all over the galaxy hunting stories
sophisticatedlimabean Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:05:00 - [8] Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 02/03/2008 21:05:41 ECM + logistic fights are considerably more technical and involved than a standard high dps gank setup. So unless you are a high sp pvper with xp in those areas it is proly difficult to imagine what is actualy happening as the visual effects are very basic or non existant.
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:11:00 - [9] Originally by: Krasnij Okjabre Because, perhaps from the viewers POV... it's incredibly dull to watch. I think 90% of us (guesstimate) likie to watch the pretty lights, hear the explosions and see a fight. Not a rep-fest... That's because said viewers are nothing but gank-tools ingame. Any pilot who has made any kind of name for himself as a skilled fighter ingame, someone who actually makes his own setups instead of being told what to fit and knows how to make tacticly correct decisions to win for example a 1vs2 or 2vs3... That pilot will enjoy the tactical fights and not 20 cruisers trying to gank each other the fastest. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Krasnij Okjabre Caldari Havoc Inc Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:12:00 - [10] Originally by: Earthan Originally by: Krasnij Okjabre Because, perhaps from the viewers POV... it's incredibly dull to watch. I think 90% of us (guesstimate) likie to watch the pretty lights, hear the explosions and see a fight. Not a rep-fest... Have you seen the match of KIA v morsus mihi , woudl you call it boring?And it was rep fest. No offence but maybe those who say its boring doent understand whats going on the screen? ofc... forgive me, I'm a nub. I have no idea of whats happening. You'd be amazed how fast a cast lives run out when you have a hammer.

Lebowske Nosferatu Security Foundation	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:17:00 - [11] Originally by: Krasnij Okjabre ofc... forgive me, I'm a nub. I have no idea of whats happening. You like the "gank fest", nothing wrong with that. Others like the strategic part. But as you said in one of the earlier posts, "90% of us (guesstimate)", that may be a bit fictional unless you know something that the rest of us doesnt know ;) -------------------- - It's better to keep your mouth shut and let people believe you're an idiot, rather than opening it and removing all doubt.
Krasnij Okjabre Caldari Havoc Inc Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:19:00 - [12] Originally by: Lebowske Originally by: Krasnij Okjabre ofc... forgive me, I'm a nub. I have no idea of whats happening. You like the "gank fest", nothing wrong with that. Others like the strategic part. But as you said in one of the earlier posts, "90% of us (guesstimate)", that may be a bit fictional unless you know something that the rest of us doesnt know ;) Thank you. You at least half understand me. I have no objectiopn to strategy... but you need to KILL the opponent. Stop playing it safe and yawnsome. You'd be amazed how fast a cast lives run out when you have a hammer.
Spaced Skunk 9omH	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:19:00 - [13] Last time I checked gank setups were a strategy, why are you saying 'other people prefer tactics/strategy' play? To Spawny, a great guy, a great laugh. Rest in peace buddy.
Krisz2 KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:20:00 - [14] dual logistics as a whole arnt the main problem its when u get 2 logistics sides that just dont have enuf dps that causes the lame stalemates. 2 logistics plus 2 bs has good logistics but has also got alot of dps, but if teams dont realise what ships have the dps to go with their logistics they desearve to lose the points :)
Tjakka KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:21:00 - [15] Im glad you guys enjoyed the show lets hope we get more exiting fights
Lebowske Nosferatu Security Foundation	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:23:00 - [16] Originally by: Spaced Skunk Last time I checked gank setups were a strategy, why are you saying 'other people prefer tactics/strategy' play? A bloody good point. Hence both having the "pure dps setups" vs "less dps and healing" is quite interesting. So both are interesting just because you dont know what your opponents will bring. -------------------- - It's better to keep your mouth shut and let people believe you're an idiot, rather than opening it and removing all doubt.
Derrios Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:24:00 - [17] People have no appreciation for long term tactics or tactics designed towards attrition. IF IT DOESNT WORK RIGHT AWAY IT SUCKS. Personally I thumb my nose at all the analysts etc.. who are ****ting on the dual logi tactic. People aren't in this to entertain the masses, they want to win.
Cividari Caldari Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:25:00 - [18] First of Il say that I have nothing against "boring setups" since I fight in the tournament and know that the key is to win and not put up a good show. But Il also say that the only reason the MM vs Kia fight wasnt a complete snorefest was because MM didnt field a tanky dual logistics setup. Had we also brought out two guardians the fight would have been increadably boring to watch.
MITSUK0	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:31:00 - [19] A lot of people are not capable of thinking beyond tank'n'gank in this game, just look at the ships and mods forum for proof of that :P Commentary has not done some of the "boring" fights justice, I know I know go out there and do it myself blah blah, no offense to the guys out there but while you where spouting about it being crap and boring you actually missed some things happening on screen as regards to cap sustainability, ewar and even tanks breaking in some fights :P I find it just as entertaining to anticipate a curse breaking a double gaurdian setup as I do watching gank setups park up next to each other and F1-F8 :)
Spaced Skunk 9omH	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:35:00 - [20] Originally by: MITSUK0 A lot of people are not capable of thinking beyond tank'n'gank in this game, just look at the ships and mods forum for proof of that :P Thats because in REAL pvp its a bad idea to make a gang that if one ship goes down the whole gang and its link is broken. To Spawny, a great guy, a great laugh. Rest in peace buddy.

Derrios Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:41:00 - [21] this isnt real pvp
Krasnij Okjabre Caldari Havoc Inc Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:43:00 - [22] Originally by: Derrios this isnt real pvp We can't all be wrong... can we?? You'd be amazed how fast a cast lives run out when you have a hammer.
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M	Posted - 2008.03.02 22:00:00 - [23] I prefer a gankfest due to the fact you can't properly see ECM and remote repping, you can properly see the shield/armor/hull bars go down. But you can't see who is winning with dual logistics since you can't see how much cap both sides have or if they are jammed or not. If the tourney had ways to view cap, fitting and module usage then most repair circle jerks would be a hell of a lot more interesting to watch. The problem with live coverage then would be that the participants would also exactly know how much cap, boosters and what the fitting is. And that isn't really what you would want imho. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Lebowske Nosferatu Security Foundation	Posted - 2008.03.02 22:05:00 - [24] Originally by: Shevar I prefer a gankfest due to the fact you can't properly see ECM and remote repping, you can properly see the shield/armor/hull bars go down. But you can't see who is winning with dual logistics since you can't see how much cap both sides have or if they are jammed or not. If the tourney had ways to view cap, fitting and module usage then most repair circle jerks would be a hell of a lot more interesting to watch. The problem with live coverage then would be that the participants would also exactly know how much cap, boosters and what the fitting is. And that isn't really what you would want imho. \o/ good point, thats one of the main problems actually. We can't see whats going on. The lack of indicators for whats happening - only a few graphic clues to what they are doing. Now maybe there's something for CCP to start thinking about - making a EveTV client that actually brings the audience what they want to see? A bit more indicators for EW, and other "passively displayed actions". (And maybe bring them into the TQ-client later too) :) -------------------- - It's better to keep your mouth shut and let people believe you're an idiot, rather than opening it and removing all doubt.
Bacchanalian Stimulus The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.03.02 22:48:00 - [25] Originally by: Lebowske Originally by: Krasnij Okjabre ofc... forgive me, I'm a nub. I have no idea of whats happening. You like the "gank fest", nothing wrong with that. Others like the strategic part. Strategy doesn't require logistics and circle-jerking each other for 15 minutes. There's as much strategy in determining what your opponents strategy might be based on their position in the group and fielding a team that is best-suited to counter it as there is in setting up a proper circle-jerk. ____________________ GM Sunshine > oops Neurotica > Hate to see a GM in your gang say 'oops'
Krasnij Okjabre Caldari Havoc Inc Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.03.02 22:53:00 - [26] Originally by: Bacchanalian Originally by: Lebowske Originally by: Krasnij Okjabre ofc... forgive me, I'm a nub. I have no idea of whats happening. You like the "gank fest", nothing wrong with that. Others like the strategic part. Strategy doesn't require logistics and circle-jerking each other for 15 minutes. There's as much strategy in determining what your opponents strategy might be based on their position in the group and fielding a team that is best-suited to counter it as there is in setting up a proper circle-jerk. Just FIGHT... please save us (I ain't the only one to feel this way) from our collective boredom. Yur dual logistics are st to watch, must be st to fly and generally S**T. Do summin different ffs... You'd be amazed how fast a cast lives run out when you have a hammer.
gavhriel Amarr Dark Blade Incorporated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.03.02 23:00:00 - [27] I'm much more entertained by tanking setups. I'm trying to guess what modules are they using and maybe getting close to the truth towards the end of the fight. (i'm checking killboards to see if i was right at the end) Fights that are clear after the first minute are like... premature ejaculation.
Krasnij Okjabre Caldari Havoc Inc Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.03.02 23:01:00 - [28] Originally by: gavhriel I'm much more entertained by tanking setups. I'm trying to guess what modules are they using and maybe getting close to the truth towards the end of the fight. (i'm checking killboards to see if i was right at the end) Fights that are clear after the first minute are like... premature ejaculation. As much as I love IAc... w/e m8. It's crap to watch. You'd be amazed how fast a cast lives run out when you have a hammer.
Krasnij Okjabre Caldari Havoc Inc Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.03.02 23:12:00 - [29] Originally by: gavhriel Originally by: Krasnij Okjabre As much as I love IAc... w/e m8. It's crap to watch. as i said...it's a matter of taste. Said the dog when licking the cats arse. You'd be amazed how fast a cast lives run out when you have a hammer.
Panhter	Posted - 2008.03.02 23:15:00 - [30] I like both, if you get to much of one type it gets boring. I found the MC vs. PL match very intresting. I was sitting on the edge of my seat screaming for that Guardian to go down and each time it repped itself up agen. Damn exiting



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