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b00tini	Posted - 2008.03.04 13:53:00 - [1] Is there any way a caldari ship to solo a vaga? Or a nano rapier? Or a nano anything? Besides the "let's hope he's stupid" tactic?
Riho Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:00:00 - [2] bring a friend button. or heavy neuts, one or 2 is enough if the guy is stupid (cruise raven whit 2 heavy neuts :) ) ---------------------------------- This is Me, fighting stupidity one post at a time. PS: There are no computer BUGs, there is stuff called "Random Features"
Bad Borris Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:12:00 - [3] As has been said many times before, the cerberus is excellent against nano ships and unless the nano ship is exceptionally fast (and in the vagabonds case this will mean that he cannot really damage the cerberus) the vagabond will be taking more damage from the cerberus than it is able to dish out. As for killing a vagabond in a cerberus then I think that you will be lucky to kill it since it is much much faster than a cerb and fitting both a disruptor and a webbie would compromise any cerberus set-up too much. Having said all that with 1 other fast tackler the vagabond will be toast before he gets out of range as has been my experience of flying the cerberus. Eve is not a solo game and the words 'thou shalt not solo' is pretty much the caldari golden rule.
b00tini	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:21:00 - [4] Edited by: b00tini on 04/03/2008 14:23:05 Originally by: Riho bring a friend button. or heavy neuts, one or 2 is enough if the guy is stupid (cruise raven whit 2 heavy neuts :) ) yeah, i've tried the 2 heavy neuts and webber drones on a scorpion.. And I said solo. They simply turn away for just a second and warp off.. I want to kill it.. and I said I don't want a "hope the guy is an idiot" option.. As far as the cerberus, the missiles won't even hit them, and how in the world are you going to keep them there long enough to actually take him down? I can scare nano ships away all day long, I want to send them home in their pods or worse.. A question, how many vaga pilots carry a web? What about a suicial extremely expensive (not quite faction, but poly's) crow w/ a small nos, web, 24k disruptor, 8k/s, and 3x rocket launchers w/ caldari navy thorns? Do you think I could set the orbit at 500 meters not get hit?
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:27:00 - [5] The majority of Vagabond pilots don't carry a neutralizer in favor of a HML for some strange reason, an interceptor like the crow could get in and web it with a bit of luck (overloading the mwd and web while trying to keep some transversal on approach). Then it's pretty much game over for the Vagabond as long as you keep it webbed and MWDing. Drones really don't like trying to catch something going 3.5-4km/s in a tight orbit, they keep bouncing out of MWD, shooting once, chasing again, etc. If you want to kill them with other ships, fit a web. Many Vagabonds will close in on Caldari ships assuming they lack one with higher damage ammo loaded. There are plenty of pretty terrible pilots out there and killing them should be no issue.
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:29:00 - [6] Edited by: Omarvelous on 04/03/2008 14:36:11 Edited by: Omarvelous on 04/03/2008 14:33:29 Caldari vs. Nano 1v1 You can't dictate range because you are ALWAYS slower. Ships that solo well are ships that can dictate range (Caldari are the slowest race). There are plenty of things Caldari can do that the Minmitar nano-gangs can't do - so don't whine about the different strengths weaknesses. Nano's weakness is when they are pinned - Caldari don't pin, they nullify incoming firepower. If your nano-opponent is smart they will disengage from you before you kill them (ie not engage your heavy NOS/neut BS, or fly away if you're out damaging it). Don't 1v1 a nano ship with a Caldari ship - if there is a situation that screams for team work - its fighting nano-ships. I'm not saying you can't out damage a nano ship 1v1 - you easily can with precision missiles and hybrid guns - but when the nano ship which is dictating its range of combat sees that - they will move away from you and warp off. Consider that a win. P.S. I've rarely seen nano ships solo, they're usually in gangs of 5-6 ships to strike fast and move out - nothing wrong with that its what they're designed to do. Caldari are meant to fly in gangs and teams - have some ECM to disable incoming DPS/tackle, then have its Minnie friends with webs and target painters pin targets for its slow weapons to hit. Spread out your snipers, the nanos will have low enough transversals for your sniping friends to hit them. Did I mention not to solo nano ships with Caldari? This game isn't 1v1 online. __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:34:00 - [7] Edited by: Haradgrim on 04/03/2008 14:35:11 Its not an I-Win button, but a drake can be a pretty effective vaga-killer Fit it with a buffer tank (really shines if you use rigs), and make sure you fit a tech2 web, scram, and 10mn T2 MWD, fit PDUs and BCU in low and make sure you fit at least 1 neut (have to take off 1 launcher to fit a second neut, but if you know your targets, it can be worth it). Not a versatile setup but it will take down vagas. Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
b00tini	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:36:00 - [8] Originally by: Omarvelous Caldari vs. Nano 1v1 You can't dictate range because you are ALWAYS slower. If your nano-opponent is smart they will disengage from you before you kill them (ie not engage your heavy NOS/neut BS, or fly away if you're out damaging it). Don't 1v1 a nano ship with a Caldari ship - if there is a situation that screams for team work - its fighting nano-ships. I'm not saying you can't out damage a nano ship 1v1 - you easily can with precision missiles and hybrid guns - but when the nano ship which is dictating its range of combat sees that - they will move away from you and warp off. Consider that a win. P.S. I've rarely seen nano ships solo, they're usually in gangs of 5-6 ships to strike fast and move out - nothing wrong with that its what they're designed to do. Caldari are meant to fly in gangs and teams - have some ECM to disable incoming DPS/tackle, then have its Minnie friends with webs and target painters pin targets for its slow weapons to hit. Spread out your snipers, the nanos will have low enough transversals for your sniping friends to hit them. Did I mention not to solo nano ships with Caldari? Sadly, I've been coming to this same conclusion.. I want them out of my space, I don't want them running off to choose a different target. And you are wrong on your assumption that they don't solo. So why the misbalancing? Hell, at least give my kitsune an extra low slot and some more speed so I have somewhat of a chance, but that might make the kitsune too powerful.. There needs to be a counter for everything in every 1v1 situation.. granted, I'm singling out a single class of ship that goes around 6k/sec. Minnie's have all the good nano ships, and all the nano defense. Again, please no "let's hope they're stupid" replies.. I want to trap them and kill them. So how many vaga pilots have you seen w/ webs? If that's rare, I think I'll go w/ the crow route.. might only be like 70 dps, but it'll eventually get there..
Bad Borris Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:39:00 - [9] Originally by: b00tini Edited by: b00tini on 04/03/2008 14:23:05 Originally by: Riho bring a friend button. or heavy neuts, one or 2 is enough if the guy is stupid (cruise raven whit 2 heavy neuts :) ) yeah, i've tried the 2 heavy neuts and webber drones on a scorpion.. And I said solo. They simply turn away for just a second and warp off.. I want to kill it.. and I said I don't want a "hope the guy is an idiot" option.. As far as the cerberus, the missiles won't even hit them, and how in the world are you going to keep them there long enough to actually take him down? I can scare nano ships away all day long, I want to send them home in their pods or worse.. A question, how many vaga pilots carry a web? What about a suicial extremely expensive (not quite faction, but poly's) crow w/ a small nos, web, 24k disruptor, 8k/s, and 3x rocket launchers w/ caldari navy thorns? Do you think I could set the orbit at 500 meters not get hit? You wont kill them unless u webbify them tbh. As for your comments about the cerb, you are totally wrong. I have been in these situations a few times now, the vagabond will not die to the cerberus but it will be forced to disengage.
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:39:00 - [10] Originally by: b00tini stuff I edited my replay - re-read it. You want to pin your targets. Caldari don't pin targets - they jam their sensors. Different play styles. The 'balance' you're asking for is to make the game lose its diversity which would be awful. __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:43:00 - [11] Very unlikely you can kill either of them in a caracal, doable in a Rupture though __________________________________ Garmonation - Rupture fun video
Heritor Caldari Polytope	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:44:00 - [12] Originally by: Bad Borris As has been said many times before, the cerberus is excellent against nano ships and unless the nano ship is exceptionally fast (and in the vagabonds case this will mean that he cannot really damage the cerberus) the vagabond will be taking more damage from the cerberus than it is able to dish out. As for killing a vagabond in a cerberus then I think that you will be lucky to kill it since it is much much faster than a cerb and fitting both a disruptor and a webbie would compromise any cerberus set-up too much. Having said all that with 1 other fast tackler the vagabond will be toast before he gets out of range as has been my experience of flying the cerberus. Eve is not a solo game and the words 'thou shalt not solo' is pretty much the caldari golden rule. Do you tell all the "nano" pilots that or just those trying to kill them Always where your seatbelt, its far harder for the aliens to abduct you!
Bad Borris Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:48:00 - [13] Originally by: Heritor Originally by: Bad Borris As has been said many times before, the cerberus is excellent against nano ships and unless the nano ship is exceptionally fast (and in the vagabonds case this will mean that he cannot really damage the cerberus) the vagabond will be taking more damage from the cerberus than it is able to dish out. As for killing a vagabond in a cerberus then I think that you will be lucky to kill it since it is much much faster than a cerb and fitting both a disruptor and a webbie would compromise any cerberus set-up too much. Having said all that with 1 other fast tackler the vagabond will be toast before he gets out of range as has been my experience of flying the cerberus. Eve is not a solo game and the words 'thou shalt not solo' is pretty much the caldari golden rule. Do you tell all the "nano" pilots that or just those trying to kill them Whats your point? I would hazard a guess that 99% of all pvp related deaths occur with multiple ships involved I made no other claim than that tbh.
b00tini	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:59:00 - [14] so forever in 1v1 engagements (which happen way more then you think), it'll either be a stalemate where the vaga runs and the caldari pilot either gets away with some scratched paint or doesn't get away at all. There doesn't seem like any balance or diversity in the game. There are ways minmitar ships can kind of snipe, but sniping is useless, unless you're in a huge fleet. There needs to be a counter for solo nano ships other than other nano ships specificially fitted just to take out solo nano ships. I still think the Crow is the best idea I can come up with at the moment. Can anyone answer the question as to whether or not vagas typically carry webs? I would think not..
vostok Minmatar Suns Of Korhal deadspace society	Posted - 2008.03.04 15:12:00 - [15] Originally by: b00tini so forever in 1v1 engagements (which happen way more then you think), it'll either be a stalemate where the vaga runs and the caldari pilot either gets away with some scratched paint or doesn't get away at all. There doesn't seem like any balance or diversity in the game. There are ways minmitar ships can kind of snipe, but sniping is useless, unless you're in a huge fleet. There needs to be a counter for solo nano ships other than other nano ships specificially fitted just to take out solo nano ships. I still think the Crow is the best idea I can come up with at the moment. Can anyone answer the question as to whether or not vagas typically carry webs? I would think not.. vagas need every drop of cap they can get and should never ever be in web range to start with so no lol, vagas dont have webs. also I have seen lots of non nano ships kill vagas and many ships can force them to retreat, just carrying a heavy neut on your BS pretty much makes you immune
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2008.03.04 15:27:00 - [16] Precision lights or precision rockets are your friend. Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit.
b00tini	Posted - 2008.03.04 15:32:00 - [17] Originally by: Megan Maynard Precision lights or precision rockets are your friend. Yeah, I had the idea of a stealth bomber w/a raven as bait.. move the stealth bomber into the path of the vaga's orbit, uncloak, dual web, have the raven w/ 2 damps w/ scan resolution dampening, dual web as they come at you, but finding a raven pilot to do that... that's a hard part some times.. :) all they gotta do is fit a smartbomb, 2 neuts, and 2 damps, maybe throw a minmitar specific ecm (which you get them 1 out of 3 times w/ good skills)... That may just do the trick. I just got done fitting a manticore just for that idea..
Odium47	Posted - 2008.03.04 15:41:00 - [18] Veri interesting... First, cry yoo don't know countermeasures Second, let other people give countermeasures Third, whine about it. In essence, if you haven't found a countermeasure against a Vaga, it means you should go to missions of minning. Good luck, and look more often in local and intel channels.
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:17:00 - [19] Originally by: b00tini Edited by: b00tini on 04/03/2008 15:41:30 Originally by: Megan Maynard Precision lights or precision rockets are your friend. Yeah, I had the idea of a stealth bomber w/a raven as bait.. move the stealth bomber into the path of the vaga's orbit, uncloak, dual web, have the raven w/ 2 damps w/ scan resolution dampening, dual web as they come at you, but finding a raven pilot to do that... that's a hard part some times.. :) all they gotta do is fit a smartbomb, 2 neuts, and 2 damps, maybe throw a minmitar specific ecm (which you get them 1 out of 3 times w/ good skills)... That may just do the trick. I just got done fitting a manticore just for that idea.. Anyone want to take a guess as to the range and speed of the tightest possible orbit w/ a max speed of 8k/sec w/ 2 polycarbs, a nanofiber, and a couple overdrives? Nonononono bad idea. The damping is the Stealth Bomber's job - NOT the Raven's. The Raven will have a crap ass tank with that idea. Your webs wont reach the vaga - which will stay away from your web range. The Stealth bomber in orbit of the raven, will need to perfectly time its uncloak - damp - web (yikes) - then fire a volley - warp off/cloak or get bbq'd. Just fit the Raven with 2 heavy neuts - shut off the vagabond's MWD - then fire cruise missiles (kinetic) - and kinetic medium drones. The Vaga pilot has about 5 seconds to realize his cap's gone - pull away - align and warp out. If you're lucky, you've been MWDing towards the Vaga, got him within overheated web range - and you can snag him and keep him scrammed - might buy you another volley or two which should do the job. OR... A Friend in a Raptor (much cheaper than crow) with a web could be your Caldari Pinner, keeping the Vagabond webbed and pointed, which you lay on the DPS that can actually kill the Vaga. __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:59:00 - [20] You won't be killing any competent nano pilot 1 on 1 with a caldari ship. There are however, plenty of caldari ships that can force a nano to disengage and fly away. I guess it all depends on whether you consider that a win or a draw.
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.03.04 17:34:00 - [21] Edited by: Dianeces on 04/03/2008 17:34:10 There is so much wrong with your posts, it's hilarious. Because I'm in a fairly good mood today, I'm going to pick and choose some of the more flagrant for my amusement. Originally by: b00tini And you say eve isn't a solo game, then why are vaga pilots continually able to pick apart ravens solo? Any Raven that dies to a solo Vaga is a ** fit and was a mercy-killing. Originally by:** b00tini I wish there was a 50% 20k web.. Would make frigates completely obsolete. Originally by: b00tini I know.. I know.. get a domination.. still not good enough Overloading is your friend. Originally by: b00tini Then you say get an officer web.. No, we don't. Originally by: b00tini Show me one for sale at the moment.. they don't exist right now They do, they're just very rare. Originally by: b00tini Stuff about BS with officer webs Officer webs aren't BS modules, they belong on (super)capitals. Thanks for playing. Come back soon.
Voulture GBTeam C0VEN	Posted - 2008.03.04 17:50:00 - [22] WTS Hint: neutralizers. _________________________________________
b00tini	Posted - 2008.03.04 18:42:00 - [23] Edited by: b00tini on 04/03/2008 18:43:43 WTS Hint: Reading Comprehension Like I said, I can scare them off, I just can never keep one there to kill it. And I still don't want to spend 250 mil on a domination web to kill a 150 mil (more with polycarbs) vaga. /me kicks all the trolls back under the bridge
Deux Machina	Posted - 2008.03.04 18:55:00 - [24] Originally by: b00tini Edited by: b00tini on 04/03/2008 18:43:43 WTS Hint: Reading Comprehension Like I said, I can scare them off, I just can never keep one there to kill it. And I still don't want to spend 250 mil on a domination web to kill a 150 mil (more with polycarbs) vaga. /me kicks all the trolls back under the bridge Ok, the requirements are: - 1-2 Heavy Neuts (Unstable or faction) - Warp Disruptor (T2 or faction) - MWD (T2 works fine) The trick: Start shooting, Neut them in cycles, scram them, turn on the MWD, and click approach. Against non-matari nano ships, you should be using EM missiles if they're available. Against matari, Kin or Thm is fine. With luck, when their MWD turns off, they'll be wtfpwnd by the missiles that all catch up at the same time. Webs are nice, but most nano ships don't outrun a MWD'ing battleship. kthxbie I am looking for a good corp
b00tini	Posted - 2008.03.04 19:00:00 - [25] Originally by: Deux Machina Originally by: b00tini Edited by: b00tini on 04/03/2008 18:43:43 WTS Hint: Reading Comprehension Like I said, I can scare them off, I just can never keep one there to kill it. And I still don't want to spend 250 mil on a domination web to kill a 150 mil (more with polycarbs) vaga. /me kicks all the trolls back under the bridge Ok, the requirements are: - 1-2 Heavy Neuts (Unstable or faction) - Warp Disruptor (T2 or faction) - MWD (T2 works fine) The trick: Start shooting, Neut them in cycles, scram them, turn on the MWD, and click approach. Against non-matari nano ships, you should be using EM missiles if they're available. Against matari, Kin or Thm is fine. With luck, when their MWD turns off, they'll be wtfpwnd by the missiles that all catch up at the same time. Webs are nice, but most nano ships don't outrun a MWD'ing battleship. kthxbie I guess I did get hung up on the webs a bit too much, but I did something similar to a huginn once and he must have had a cap booster. I'm going to go off and look for what the cookie cutter vaga setup is to see if any of them ever use cap boosters.
Voulture GBTeam C0VEN	Posted - 2008.03.04 19:34:00 - [26] Edited by: Voulture on 04/03/2008 19:41:38 Edited by: Voulture on 04/03/2008 19:40:43 None of vaga's or huginn's pilots got injectors. Just fit 2 h, neutralizers on your Raven, a bit of tank mwd and disruptor. Standard vaga: 1000 cap, standard huginn: 1000 cap. 2x Unstable - 1200 cap per cycle. Just use your mwd, click approach and wait till it die. Its all becouse raven with mwd is much faster than vaga without. Just be careful about jamming drones, kill them afap with your drones and mssiles. For mids: mwd t2, injector, disruptor, 2x invus and x-l booster. Noone expect Raven to foght. Everyone will think : omg i tackled nub ratter. Free km \o/ So... where is your problem? Edit: Its not only works on Ravens, they got 2 utility slots on highs, so no waste here. I rember old good times in Branch, when my friend was using Megathron with 3 neuts to kill razor nanogangs. As far as i remember he killed about 40+ nanoships losing 3 megathrones with t2 fitting. Also: Originally by: b00tini /me kicks all the trolls back under the bridge Sad panda. :D _________________________________________
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.03.04 20:46:00 - [27] Rokh: 4 neuts, 4 weapons (blasters or missile launchers to taste) and a point. Don't forget the MWD and injectors. Accelerate, zap their cap, and then fly towards them and web. They'll be dead in no time. But BS ain't that great in general, solo, so... shrug. So how about: Drake 7x launchers, Skirmish warfare link. 3x D/G stasis webs (5mil each, because they're horrible) warp disruptor, 2x LSE. BCS, PDS, whatever. Add skirmish warfare mindlink for extra comedy value. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Aprudena Gist Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 20:49:00 - [28] 1 Large Neut on a Ratting Raven means you will make any solo HAC just bugger off.
Stuart Price Caldari Havoc Inc Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.03.04 21:30:00 - [29] Cerberus > Vagabond. You really have to love a kinetic damage bonus against unhardened Vagabond shields. I have an Eagle setup that forces Vaga's off as well. They just can't avoid taking fire and don't do enough dps to break the tank without getting into optimal. Which is when you web it. In the mind of a nano-nubbin, sniperships don't fit webs you see. Of course, experienced Vaga pilots only really get killed by their own mistakes but mistakes happen from time to time. "I got soul but I'm not a soldier"
DeadDuck Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.04 21:40:00 - [30] Originally by: Bad Borris Originally by: b00tini Edited by: b00tini on 04/03/2008 14:23:05 Originally by: Riho bring a friend button. or heavy neuts, one or 2 is enough if the guy is stupid (cruise raven whit 2 heavy neuts :) ) yeah, i've tried the 2 heavy neuts and webber drones on a scorpion.. And I said solo. They simply turn away for just a second and warp off.. I want to kill it.. and I said I don't want a "hope the guy is an idiot" option.. As far as the cerberus, the missiles won't even hit them, and how in the world are you going to keep them there long enough to actually take him down? I can scare nano ships away all day long, I want to send them home in their pods or worse.. A question, how many vaga pilots carry a web? What about a suicial extremely expensive (not quite faction, but poly's) crow w/ a small nos, web, 24k disruptor, 8k/s, and 3x rocket launchers w/ caldari navy thorns? Do you think I could set the orbit at 500 meters not get hit? You wont kill them unless u webbify them tbh. As for your comments about the cerb, you are totally wrong. I have been in these situations a few times now, the vagabond will not die to the cerberus but it will be forced to disengage. From my experience on 1vs1 the nano fits always have to disengage facing similar ships with no nano fits... Nanos are good to engage samller stuff, haulers and npc fitouts the rest ... they just have to disengage or gank. Thats why I really dont like the nano fitouts ________________ God is my Wingman

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