EVE Search - Missiles vs Turrets

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Missiles vs Turrets

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Amulon Starseeker	Posted - 2008.03.06 17:57:00 - [1] Is it me or do Missiles seem to have all the upside and hardly any downside to them? I was playing around with the guides and it seems to me that there are a lot of ways for Turrets to miss the target and do no damage and there aren't hardly anyways to avoid damage from missiles, unless you are really small and going really fast. Missile boats would seem to have the advantage in almost every situation. Example: I jam you. You switch to FOF missiles and fire away. I am at short range or far.. doesn't matter because I don't have any range penaties. (as long as you are in range I can hit you.) So, a missile boat can do consistant damage and there isn't any way to avoid it. VS Turrets that not only have to worry about size and speed but how close you are as well and how which way I am moving. Any advice?
Julius Romanus Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.03.06 18:07:00 - [2] Takes time for a launch to hit target. Becomes a big deal at heavy/cruise ranges. Going really fast is fairly common. But I personally have more to fear from missiles than turrets most of the time.
pyr8t Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.03.06 18:11:00 - [3] As someone who uses turrets almost exclusively, I generally agree with the above. Missiles always hit, and hit hard. With turrets you often go through several cycles hitting for little damage or go entire volly's without hitting your target at all. Missiles are dead-simple to use, whereas turrets require conditions to be 'just right'. It's this disparity which seems unfair.
pyr8t Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.03.06 18:13:00 - [4] I also fear missile ships more than turret ships. This is universally true.
AnKahn Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.03.06 18:32:00 - [5] Actually the opposite perception is prevalent. Gallente and Minnie rule PvP and they are generally gunboats. Maybe, since PvPers are usually hardcore and EvE is a hardcore PvP game and the "PvP" races are gun and armor oriented, the better players shoot guns. And the "gankees" are freaked out noob missile spewers. Hence the "bad reputation Raven" thread nearby. I'm a missile/shield tanker currently training Gallente and someday hope to compare the experiance flying both races in PvP and come up with an educated opinion.
Gareth McGillicuddy Gallente Endless Night	Posted - 2008.03.06 18:51:00 - [6] Where to start... Missiles hit for full damage from 0m to max range; needless to say, turrets do not. Missiles never miss any target they can hit regardless of skills; turrets can and do miss with quite good skills. Missiles don't require you to train a specialization for T2 short- and long-range AT EACH SIZE-CLASS; turrets do. Missiles can hit enemy targets even when the launching ship is jammed (FoF); turrets can not. Missiles can change to all four damage types on all T1 and T2 ammo; turrets can not, for any race, in T1 OR T2. Missile boats don't have to worry about tracking speed, optimal range, transversal velocity, or cap depletion turning your DPS off. And tracking disruptor > defender missiles (honestly... would you rather lose a DPS slot versus a mid?) Missiles are easier and faster to train for, do roughly the same max damage as their turret equivalents over their entire range, use no cap, never miss, and allow you to gank AND tank better than turret ships. They also seem to avoid nerfs much better than turret ships, and "boosts" to missile boats always improve them instead of vice versa. So, you may ask... why do I fly turret ships? One word: drones. And drones, well... where to start...
Jessica Molla	Posted - 2008.03.06 18:56:00 - [7] Originally by: Gareth McGillicuddy Where to start... Missiles hit for full damage from 0m to max range; needless to say, turrets do not. Missiles never miss any target they can hit regardless of skills; turrets can and do miss with quite good skills. Missiles don't require you to train a specialization for T2 short- and long-range AT EACH SIZE-CLASS; turrets do. Missiles can hit enemy targets even when the launching ship is jammed (FoF); turrets can not. Missiles can change to all four damage types on all T1 and T2 ammo; turrets can not, for any race, in T1 OR T2. Missile boats don't have to worry about tracking speed, optimal range, transversal velocity, or cap depletion turning your DPS off. And tracking disruptor > defender missiles (honestly... would you rather lose a DPS slot versus a mid?) Missiles are easier and faster to train for, do roughly the same max damage as their turret equivalents over their entire range, use no cap, never miss, and allow you to gank AND tank better than turret ships. They also seem to avoid nerfs much better than turret ships, and "boosts" to missile boats always improve them instead of vice versa. So, you may ask... why do I fly turret ships? One word: drones. And drones, well... where to start... man i loled so hard...you guys who think that missiles are totaly uber are...ehm...n00bs turrets>missiles
Cogswin Iannyen	Posted - 2008.03.06 19:17:00 - [8] Originally by: Gareth McGillicuddy Missiles don't require you to train a specialization for T2 short- and long-range AT EACH SIZE-CLASS; turrets do. Hang on there scooter. Light Missles/ Rockets (small ships) Heavy Missles/Heavy Assaults (medium ships) Cruise Missles/Torpedoes (BS) Missle skills require specialization in teir1 and teir 2 for range dependent modules/ammo. As opposed to turrets that are generic for t1 (i.e. small hybrids gets you blasters/rails, and medium projectiles gets you autocannons/artillery, etc etc.) Granted, there are 3 turret types, but those tend to be racial specific based on ship types. It would be foolist, imho, to use rails on a projectile bonus ship.
Annowyn	Posted - 2008.03.06 19:23:00 - [9] Originally by: Cogswin Iannyen Originally by: Gareth McGillicuddy Missiles don't require you to train a specialization for T2 short- and long-range AT EACH SIZE-CLASS; turrets do. Hang on there scooter. Light Missles/ Rockets (small ships) Heavy Missles/Heavy Assaults (medium ships) Cruise Missles/Torpedoes (BS) Missle skills require specialization in teir1 and teir 2 for range dependent modules/ammo. As opposed to turrets that are generic for t1 (i.e. small hybrids gets you blasters/rails, and medium projectiles gets you autocannons/artillery, etc etc.) Granted, there are 3 turret types, but those tend to be racial specific based on ship types. It would be foolist, imho, to use rails on a projectile bonus ship. Pretty sure that everyone else that read his post understood he ment...to get large t2 autocannons you first have to train small and medium autocannon specs to level 4. Thus have the train small and medium projectiles to 5.
AnKahn Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.03.06 19:25:00 - [10] Caldari >> Missile boats with small drone bays. Gallente >> Gunboats with large drone bays. Minnie >> Fast gunboats with medium drone bays. Amarr >> Lazors , tank and drone bays (?) I do not know. So if you believe there is balance or at least attempt to balance the races then guns should not be better than missiles if you are just talking about the weapon systems and not the ships they are attached to. I think racial balance involves weapon systems AND drone bay size/bandwith AND speed AND tank fitting ability. So saying turrets > missiles is kind of simplistic.
Brodde Dim	Posted - 2008.03.06 19:28:00 - [11] Originally by: Cogswin Iannyen Originally by: Gareth McGillicuddy Missiles don't require you to train a specialization for T2 short- and long-range AT EACH SIZE-CLASS; turrets do. Hang on there scooter. Light Missles/ Rockets (small ships) Heavy Missles/Heavy Assaults (medium ships) Cruise Missles/Torpedoes (BS) Missle skills require specialization in teir1 and teir 2 for range dependent modules/ammo. As opposed to turrets that are generic for t1 (i.e. small hybrids gets you blasters/rails, and medium projectiles gets you autocannons/artillery, etc etc.) Granted, there are 3 turret types, but those tend to be racial specific based on ship types. It would be foolist, imho, to use rails on a projectile bonus ship. What Annowyn said. And you have to train sharpshooter/motion prediction. And there are 2x "i" in missile.
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2008.03.06 19:34:00 - [12] Edited by: Trevor Warps on 06/03/2008 19:34:16 I got a question to you missiles fanboys : When is the last time your missiles did score a wrecking hit ?
Brodde Dim	Posted - 2008.03.06 19:39:00 - [13] Originally by: Trevor Warps Edited by: Trevor Warps on 06/03/2008 19:34:16 I got a question to you missiles fanboys : When is the last time your missiles did score a wrecking hit ? Even the whiners know that there are fewer wrecking hits than light hits, barely scratches etc.
Gareth McGillicuddy Gallente Endless Night	Posted - 2008.03.06 19:40:00 - [14] Originally by: Cogswin Iannyen Originally by: Gareth McGillicuddy Missiles don't require you to train a specialization for T2 short- and long-range AT EACH SIZE-CLASS; turrets do. Hang on there scooter. Light Missles/ Rockets (small ships) Heavy Missles/Heavy Assaults (medium ships) Cruise Missles/Torpedoes (BS) Missle skills require specialization in teir1 and teir 2 for range dependent modules/ammo. As opposed to turrets that are generic for t1 (i.e. small hybrids gets you blasters/rails, and medium projectiles gets you autocannons/artillery, etc etc.) Granted, there are 3 turret types, but those tend to be racial specific based on ship types. It would be foolist, imho, to use rails on a projectile bonus ship. Okay, I'll agree. You CAN train both, but realistically anything short-ranged doesn't play to missile strengths. Look what happened to torp use when they got nerfed for range. Most pilots can train light/heavy/cruise and live quite happily in either PvE or PvP. That said, I hadn't intended my post as a blanket endorsement of missiles but to point out some of the advantages they enjoy. I fly both Gallente and Caldari, and am aware of the advantages and disadvantages of both. But for the sake of argument, when was the last time you saw a passive armor-tanked ship regen armor without a repper? I advise people coming into the game to start Caldari and train Minnie or Gal when they have better skills.
Amulon Starseeker	Posted - 2008.03.06 19:45:00 - [15] Well, it looks like I wasn't far off in my comments from the replies that I have recieved. I am new to the game and was wondering why everyone was saying that the Caldari are the favored race. I didn't really pay too much attention until I was running LV4's with my Corp. My corp has 3 Caldari members who use missile boats (Drakes) for the most part and at first I wondered why. Then when I got into looking at missiles and comparing them against Turrets and I noticed, what seems to be a large discrepancy between Missiles and Turret based weapons. For example on the guides. Heavy missiles still hit frigates though the damage is reduced to 73% w/o skills. I know that with some larger ships that they either have to have smaller guns or drones to take care of frigates because they can't hit them. This doesn't take into consideration speed. To get a 10% reduction in damage from missiles (heavy) I have to be moving at 1220 m/s do get a 10% reduction in damage. That seems excessive to me as a new player. It seems to me that if we have lasers that we could shoot down missiles aka Starwars. :) Or have chafe or something that would reduce the chance to hit. As far as skills are compared. I have almost half of my skills in Gunnery currently and still seem to miss quite a bit if I am out of my optimal range. It makes me wonder how I would be doing if I had comparable missile skills?
Cogswin Iannyen	Posted - 2008.03.06 19:51:00 - [16] Originally by: Annowyn Pretty sure that everyone else that read his post understood he ment...to get large t2 autocannons you first have to train small and medium autocannon specs to level 4. Thus have the train small and medium projectiles to 5.[/quote Oh. Well, I didn't get that meaning from it, but if thats what he meant, then yeah, that kinda blows. I'll agree there wholeheartedly. I never did understand why small hybrid specs were required for medium spec, etc etc (not that I'm advocating changing missle skills to match...) And yeah, missles are way more effective, relatively, at low skillpoint levels, than guns, but guns quickly overtake them in the high skillpoint arena.
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2008.03.06 19:51:00 - [17] Originally by: Brodde Dim Originally by: Trevor Warps Edited by: Trevor Warps on 06/03/2008 19:34:16 I got a question to you missiles fanboys : When is the last time your missiles did score a wrecking hit ? Even the whiners know that there are fewer wrecking hits than light hits, barely scratches etc. No. It Depends.
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.06 19:53:00 - [18] Originally by: pyr8t I also fear missile ships more than turret ships. This is universally true. Don't fear them, just warp away. Do you lot actually play this game? --------------- you all smell!
Brodde Dim	Posted - 2008.03.06 20:01:00 - [19] Originally by: Trevor Warps Originally by: Brodde Dim Originally by: Trevor Warps Edited by: Trevor Warps on 06/03/2008 19:34:16 I got a question to you missiles fanboys : When is the last time your missiles did score a wrecking hit ? Even the whiners know that there are fewer wrecking hits than light hits, barely scratches etc. No. It Depends. Have you had many fights where you do more than your theoretical dps with turrets? Im pretty sure my own hits are worse than a "perfect hit" more than 3% of the time. Maybe I just suck at this game though.
Last Wolf Templars of Space	Posted - 2008.03.06 20:04:00 - [20] Except, You can become completely immune to missiles if you go fast enough. The same isn't true for turrets. Turrets Always have some change to hit (even if it is 0.01% you can get lucky sometimes) especially at sniper ranges, If turrets suck so much, why do you see waaaaaay more eagles in pvp than cerberus? A single interceptor going fast enough (20km/s is an obtainable speed, if not a practical or isk-efficient set-up.) There isn't a missile ship in the world that could kill it un-webbeb. you could stick all 200,000 players in rigged cerbs with precision lights in assault launchers with max skill points in the same system and they would never kill that lone interceptor (lag free o-course :P) Try the same thing with just 10 or 20 turret ships all spaced 50-200km from each other and I bet at least one of them will have a low enough transversal to hit that 20km/s ship. Originally by: Liang Nuren wrong forum isroy i am vjery drunm
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.03.06 20:08:00 - [21] Quote: Is it me or do Missiles seem to have all the upside and hardly any downside to them? Oh they have plenty of downsides. Just pull up the killboard for any major alliance fleet engagement. Look at the BS. What do you see? Dozens and dozens of megas and armageddons, quite a few rokhs, and maybe the comedy raven or two. They're not popular in fleet PvP for good reasons. For PvE, they require a small skill investment to be adequate, and so are popular. They are outpaced in damage by fully skilled gunboats, but it takes ages to get a gunboat to make full use of its potential. Actually, the support skills for missiles are even more SP demanding than turrets, but you can ignore most of them for pve. You don't usually care about the extra range or flight time, or the explosion velocity. Missiles hit smaller ships for less damage. They hit ships going too fast for less damage. They can't hit ships going fast enough at all. Turrets can hit anyone going at any speed if the transversal is low enough and the targets sig radius high enough. But you never really need to worry about ships going 'too fast' in pve.
Gareth McGillicuddy Gallente Endless Night	Posted - 2008.03.06 20:28:00 - [22] Originally by: Last Wolf Except, You can become completely immune to missiles if you go fast enough. The same isn't true for turrets. Nano'd ceptors are hardly a good example for turret vs. missile strengths. In either case, what you really need is a Huggin or some good tactical use of webbers to take the ceptor out. But it does bring up another interesting point: namely, that the nano'd ceptor in question had better be a Crow, since a turret ceptor won't be hitting anything if it orbits at that kind of speed.
AnKahn Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.03.06 20:34:00 - [23] Up to 40 or so man gangs, assuming a good mix of gank/tankers and support (EWAR/tacklers) Caldari ships (a.k.a missile boats do just fine). The missile boats and gunboats will share/trade positions on the killmails. It's a fact. If not you fly with only noob Caldari without missile skills. Now in "large fleet engagements", yes, leave the missile boats home. In POS takedowns, missile boats are fine. Of course thats all about Dreads now. Large fleet engagements and POS takedowns are why I left 0.0. Not that much fun. Not really that skill intensive either. So then EvE starts to resemble, well, one of the boring MMO games out there. On the other hand Merc work (and the similar anti pirate and pirate action) is just fine with either missiles or turrets. Another Ford vs. Chevy thread
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2008.03.06 20:34:00 - [24] Missiles have their advantages and disadvantages, and turrets have their advantages and disadvantages. They are pretty balanced over all. Missiles DON'T always hit for full damage. A frigate won't take too much damage from a torpedo, and any ship going at 4 km/s or faster will take almost no damage from most missiles.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2008.03.06 20:38:00 - [25] Originally by: AnKahn Now in "large fleet engagements", yes, leave the missile boats home. This isn't really true unless you're dumb enough to insist shooting missiles on the primary. Pick your own targets and shoot the other fleet's support and anti-support ships and you're fine.
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2008.03.06 20:38:00 - [26] Originally by: Brodde Dim Have you had many fights where you do more than your theoretical dps with turrets? Im pretty sure my own hits are worse than a "perfect hit" more than 3% of the time. Maybe I just suck at this game though. Maybe. Well I fight alot with blaster boats like thorax and megathron. Once I get my target webbed, especially if its a missile boat, i get my transversal to 0. At that point I hit pretty much 100% of the time with a majority of normal hits and more good hits than scratching ones. If I fit rails and try shooting an inty orbiting me, I miss alot. So yes, It depends but turrets often beats missiles.
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.03.06 20:51:00 - [27] Originally by: AnKahn Another Ford vs. Chevy thread Best description of this pointless argument that pops up every few months! Guns have the potential to do a lot more dps than missiles. If both weapon systems are under ideal conditions turrets will out damage missiles. The trade off is that you need a more specialized optimal situation for guns than for missiles. If you ship exceeds 6500 m/s you've essentially made missiles worthless (exception for precision light missiles - of course the dps from precision lights is laughable). A Drake will essentially do 0 dps to your ship. A gunship can snipe at a distance where the transversal is slow enough for the guns and hit a ship going at any speed. Projectile guns are 0 cap as well as missiles. Delayed damage. At moderate range and beyond the missiles take so long to get to your target, they can warp away. A sniper can causing damage right away. Missile ships are slow and heavy - compare agility and mass of missile boats vs gunships. It just so happens in roaming/small gang/solo pvp - speed and agility to dictate combat range are paramount to winning the fight. The weapon systems are balanced - quit complaining. __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2008.03.06 20:55:00 - [28] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: AnKahn Another Ford vs. Chevy thread Omar got it a bit more technically correct. Honda wins tho ;)
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2008.03.06 21:02:00 - [29] Originally by: Msobe T2 textwall Have you ever heard the word, minimalist ? Just satin' because i was scared to read such a long report. A redactor friend of mine once said to me that he always try to keep the text to the minimal, to keep it accurate and not lose the attention. I'm not saying i'm all that good at it tho.
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2008.03.06 21:05:00 - [30] Edited by: Trevor Warps on 06/03/2008 21:08:45 Originally by: NoNah Sorry to barge in on you like this. But once you start involving "irrelevant" numbers such as tracking and signatures into the discussion, you've already lost. It's unknown how the actual formula for calculating hit qualities work. What variables are involved, and which ones are not. It seems however, they pretty much cancel eachother out. You win some, you lose some - and would end up on 100% dps. HOWEVER, wrecking hits are excluded from this, as they appear to be a static amount of hits. So in practice you're average dps would in fact be Multi * Ammo / RoF * 1.02, while the theoretical min/max is 52-152%. In the end, there are oooohhh so much more important differences between missiles and turrets than hitquality, the 2% are very much so neglect able once you factor in velocities and signatures. Wrecking aint everything. There is also the 'perfectly hits' and such. Also, 100% of turret dps is superior to 100% missile dps with similar setups. Edit : Since you are bringing yourself these irrelevent numbers into the discusion, you lose ?

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.