| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Xelios
   |
Posted - 2004.04.08 00:03:00 -
[1]
Insurance seems to be one of those hot issues right now, so here's my 2 cents.
The problem is a battleship now costs 30 million instead of 100 million like they should. To lose a battleship means you lose 30 million isk for new insurance. This is not nearly enough. The immediate response would be 'well raise the cost of insurance' but that's not the answer either, as people that don't have the luxury of mining ark for a couple hours won't be able to afford it.
Why not change insurance from a flat rate to a rate that differs from person to person? Say, the first time you insure a battleship it costs you 30 mil, if you lose it that goes up to 35 mil, if you lose it again it goes up to 40 mil and so on. The problem here is that insurance will become useless very quickly, so there would have to be a system by which you could lower your insurance cost. This will undoubtably create balance issues, just like the security status system did.
Second idea. Insurance teirs based on what you do and where you operate. The problem here is getting such information. Will it go by how much time you spend in 0.0? How many times you fire a weapon? How many jumps you make or npc's you kill? We'd need a reliable system to determine the tiers, one that can't be easily cheated.
I personally like the first idea better, and it makes sense. Losing x ships in x days should raise your insurance, while going x weeks without losing one should lower it.
Discuss.
|
Homo Habilis
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 00:09:00 -
[2]
The automatic insurance payout was the most retarded carebearish stung ccp has whipped out.
I fought against it when they brought it forth in the dev blog area, but the unskilled people who don't like challenges in this game outnumbeed me, and influenced ccp to go against their own ideals.
|
Danton Marcellus
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 00:18:00 -
[3]
I like it, it enabled me to make a griefer happy today, joy all around.
Convert Stations
|
Xelios
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 00:19:00 -
[4]
Automated insurance needs to go, that's for sure. I wish I got 40% of my insurance on my car for free, that'd save me a lot of money. I find it rediculous, if you want your ship insured then you insure it, otherwise suck it up when you lose it.
|
XpoHoc
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 00:20:00 -
[5]
They called Eve their baby once... now they have sold it, they dress it like other people tell them to do it, because those people pay for it.
 |
Mr nStuff
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 00:23:00 -
[6]
yup.. I don't see the logic in having to pay more money.
Insurance is fine the way it is..
Maybe we need a new forum for posts like this, and the anti-highway type posts.
5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers..
Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer.
My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 19. September 2004 |
The Monk
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 00:27:00 -
[7]
Insurence is fine the way it is allows battle ship owners to stay in battleships. Seems fine to me.
-----------------------
╔╤╗╒╕╔╕║║/
║│║╘╛║╘╝║\
----------------------- |
Aronis Contar
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 00:56:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Aronis Contar on 08/04/2004 00:57:20
I would prefer a simple mode that works similarly to a real life car insurance.
You start out on bonus level 6, with levels ranging from 0 to 12. For each insurance cycle (1 month, 3 months, whatever) without loosing your ship, you get awarded 1 level, until you reach level 0. Each level costs less (30 Mio for level 6, maybe 15 Mio for level 0). Whenever you loose your ship, your level gets bumped up by 2.
Very simple, and rewards people that don't loose their ships.
Ciao, Aronis!
|
Lyden
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 00:59:00 -
[9]
 Quote:
Do away with flat rate insurance
Woot! I agree! I want a big balloon payment just like in life.
Lyden
--
Cans are made of spandex, doubt me? How else could they hold so much more outside of your ship? |
Negotiator
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 01:08:00 -
[10]
Quote:
Insurence is fine the way it is allows battle ship owners to stay in battleships. Seems fine to me.
Yeah, especialy the unskilled ones...(hint hint)
|
Zasra
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 02:23:00 -
[11]
Why are some of you so hell bent in making people lose everything they possibly can? These changes were made to encourage people to actually take risk, and you want to drive them back into empire boredom.
Really, you need to let this one go, it's fine the way it is. Call me a carebear because I don't agree with you, whatever, but they aren't out to please the small minority of players that can't get a kick unless they really 'hurt' someone by making them lose everything.
|
XpoHoc
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 02:28:00 -
[12]
Edited by: XpoHoc on 08/04/2004 02:34:23
Quote:
but they aren't out to please the small minority of players
It's sad but true. This is the point where a game isn't your baby anymore it becomes a *****.
To make maximum profit you have to please the majority of people, this has nothing to do with creating a whole new world based on your ideas and visions.
Quote:
You start out on bonus level 6, with levels ranging from 0 to 12. For each insurance cycle (1 month, 3 months, whatever) without loosing your ship, you get awarded 1 level, until you reach level 0. Each level costs less (30 Mio for level 6, maybe 15 Mio for level 0). Whenever you loose your ship, your level gets bumped up by 2.
I would like that kind of system, and I don't think it's difficult to implement.
|
Silverlancer
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 03:20:00 -
[13]
When you lose a battleship, you don't lose 30 million.
30 million for insurance.
10-100 million for your modules.
10-50 million for your implants.
Thats 40 million at the mininum... and possibly MUCH more.
|
BobGhengisKhan
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 04:09:00 -
[14]
Edited by: BobGhengisKhan on 08/04/2004 04:10:29
Quote:
Insurence is fine the way it is allows battle ship owners to stay in battleships. Seems fine to me.
That way, they won't have to feel sad when they realize their friends are willing to abandon them to die as they outnumber the enemy, and they can login 10 minutes to later to ****talk about how worthless the enemy's victory was, and how their "mission was accomplished" because they logged in time to save the pod.
A hypothetical situation, of course
|
Bogenhagen
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 05:07:00 -
[15]
If you want to change insurance...first change the ship class balancing to where cruisers other than the Caracal and BB are actually useful in current fleet combat (the caracal is stretching it as "useful"). Decrease the gap between cruiser and battleship or add more friggin ships to fill the gaps.
Once CCP fixes the current syndrome that cruisers are near useless in fleet combat, then be my guest and nerf/change the insurance all you want.
|
Qutsemnie
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 06:17:00 -
[16]
What does automatic insurance have to do with the topic of the thread.
Autoinsurance is nothing.
Before you rebuke me:
ARe you using automatic insurance?
Are your friends using automatic insurance?
Why should I be using automatic insurance?
With a 12 week period on insurance your a fool not to go premium. Before we complain about automatic insurance why dont you explain who is abusing it cause its not at all obvious.
Automatic insurance: everyones dog. It wasnt his fault but its easy to kick.
(hint: the 12 week insurance is being used. the automatic insurance is a nonissue. Nobody is using it except 1/1000 people that forget, are noobs, or get caught with their pants down. Either way its not effecting game play)
If you know different then testify on how YOUR corp uses automatic insurance. Cause everyone keeps acting like the "other guy" is systematically using automatic insurance. I havent met this "other guy." I just cant figure out what the beef is. It hasnt effected any game play.
|
Jet Jagowrath
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 06:30:00 -
[17]
Quote:
The automatic insurance payout was the most retarded carebearish stung ccp has whipped out.
I fought against it when they brought it forth in the dev blog area, but the unskilled people who don't like challenges in this game outnumbeed me, and influenced ccp to go against their own ideals.
i agree entirely, CCP should stop mothering the players when they whine like babies, 40% insurance is a dumb as hell.
JJx
King Jadrut of The Alliance That Kicks Your Arse Very Badly And Whoops You Like You've Never Seen Before, TATKYAVBAWYLYNSB for short, owns all Jove space, stay away or bad things will happen to you and your hamsters and/or gerbils mmmk
La Maison de tous les plaisirs - Where politics and pleasure meet...
|
Fred0
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 06:59:00 -
[18]
Quote:
They called Eve their baby once... now they have sold it, they dress it like other people tell them to do it, because those people pay for it.
So true and so sad.
|
Sassinak
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 08:31:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Sassinak on 08/04/2004 08:32:17
The 40% default insurance IMO was CCP's single worst mistake.. Nothing was more exciting in EVE was fighting outnumbered in an Uninsured Battleship. Combat dont get my pulse racing anymore reason being I have 4 Battleships one of them is covered 100% the other 3 by the Default 40%. All I loose is my rare modules, but im sure if the wrong person dies and looses their stuff, they will kick and scream and whine till CCP put in a feature that instantly transports your rare loot or something if we die.
Default 40% Insurance has to go IMHO.
Sass
Arcane Technologies |
Fester Addams
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 08:34:00 -
[20]
I wouldnt mind making insurance more costly for PvP players other high risk players.
As the majority of players that call for this are of this profession I cant see that they would in reality dislike this.
The difficulty would be to make the higher prices target the high risk players only, the average player who goes about buisness should have low insurance just as people who have owned and driven a car for years and not been in any accidents have low insurance in real life.
The probel with many of thise "insurance is bad mkaaay" posts is that they dont seem to be aimed at this, more often than not they are after a system when the current insurance costs remain for them but is bared to the casual player.
Many high risk players expect to loose their ships in days not weeks thus 12 weeks insurance time is pointless to them thus they want to lower the time of insurance.
First rule of listening to people who want changes in a game:
If they are talking in their own cause reconsider what they are saying especially pondering if they simply dont want to get a powerboost that isnt needed.
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 08:40:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Siddy on 08/04/2004 08:42:39
ok - lets dothe math...
my tempest is at default 100 milion - 40% inshurance means 40 milion payback
99% inshurance cost me 34 milion and the pay out is 99 milion
soooo - if i dont pay my inshurance and save my money it will be: 40 + 34 = 74 milions
and if i pay my inshurance and get 99 - 34 = 65
can u see the conflickt in here 
-------------------------------------------
|
Pychian Vanervi
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 08:47:00 -
[22]
Leave the 40% insurance but get rid of all other insurance. You get something back but not the whole amount which would lead to combat meaning something other than a moral victory.
Also make sure as well, that insurance for implants does not get introduced. If it does the next they will be asking for is module insurance and then we may as well just have ships respawn fully fitted in station!!
-----------------------------
It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
|
Qutsemnie
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 08:54:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Qutsemnie on 08/04/2004 08:59:22
Edited by: Qutsemnie on 08/04/2004 08:55:34
Your math is flawed siddy. Leave it in percent cause when you mixed em it went sour. Indeed lets "do the math"
The 100% insurance cost 30% of your ships pay off. That means you get 70% return for insuring.
If you do nothing you get a 40% return. You loose 30% of your ships value by doing nothing.
The only reason that wouldnt be true is if you can go 12 weeks without blowing yourself up. Your not trying or not playing if thats true =) either way you didnt influence anyone or anything.
Is there anyone rationally using the default insurance? Rationally meaning you can show how you gain by loosing 30% of your ships value.
|
Pychian Vanervi
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 08:56:00 -
[24]
Quote:
I wouldnt mind making insurance more costly for PvP players other high risk players.
As the majority of players that call for this are of this profession I cant see that they would in reality dislike this.
I fit none of the preconcieved factions and you would think with my poxy wallet I would want all the benifits going but I don't.
You say its the PvPer that want insurance changed to make combat more exciting, well then why would player in Empire need insurance, they have so little risk anyway that its pointless.
As for 0.0 miners I guess it is them who want insurance the most as they feel its thier right to go out into 0.0 and take a piece of the pie without the risk of too much loss.
I say get rid of all insurance and make the player who risk 0.0 have the risk and the player in Empire cary on reasonably risk free.
-----------------------------
It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
|
Decilius
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 09:58:00 -
[25]
Quote:
Why are some of you so hell bent in making people lose everything they possibly can? These changes were made to encourage people to actually take risk, and you want to drive them back into empire boredom.
Really, you need to let this one go, it's fine the way it is. Call me a carebear because I don't agree with you, whatever, but they aren't out to please the small minority of players that can't get a kick unless they really 'hurt' someone by making them lose everything.
Here Here
|
Pychian Vanervi
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 10:08:00 -
[26]
Ok instead of us goin gon about why we should get rid/change insurance, lets get it from the flip side.
Why do you need to keep insurance as it is, giving what line of business you are in and what the usual sec systems you work in?
This will give us on the for changes side to see why you realy need it to stay the same.
-----------------------------
It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
|
Odet
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 10:14:00 -
[27]
Flat rate insurance is the devil, Down with the carebears I tell you DOWN!!!!!!
101 ways to ruin EvE
1# flat rate insurance
=This podding has been brought to you by Odet, the only way to fry.= |
Miso
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 10:22:00 -
[28]
Hand all insurance over to player corps to run - that'll make things interesting 
--------------------------------------------
Dead
|
Bogenhagen
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 10:23:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Why do you need to keep insurance as it is, giving what line of business you are in and what the usual sec systems you work in?
NPC hunting in 0.0 and PvP. Only problem I have in NPC hunting is landing on top of the spawn  ...they don't like me joinig their orge. And a little mining in a .5 system to get Veld and Scord with little risk.
Main reason I lose ships? PvP and instalocking NPC's. One is my fault, other is faulty game mechanics. But I usually pay for insurance and don't use the basic 40%...even with premium I lose isk, just as Siddy outlined.
|
Pychian Vanervi
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 10:31:00 -
[30]
Quote:
NPC hunting in 0.0 and PvP. Only problem I have in NPC hunting is landing on top of the spawn ...they don't like me joinig their orge. And a little mining in a .5 system to get Veld and Scord with little risk.
Main reason I lose ships? PvP and instalocking NPC's. One is my fault, other is faulty game mechanics. But I usually pay for insurance and don't use the basic 40%...even with premium I lose isk, just as Siddy outlined.
Ok now without trying to pry too deep into your income, what would you roughly make a week doing what you do?
-----------------------------
It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
|
Pychian Vanervi
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 10:43:00 -
[31]
Quote:
Hand all insurance over to player corps to run - that'll make things interesting
This would be a cool idea.
Although I can't see many corps insuring any alliance war ships, unless they premiums where huge.
Although I think its along the same thinking of making mid sec space policed by the players.
-----------------------------
It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 10:50:00 -
[32]
Quote:
Edited by: Qutsemnie on 08/04/2004 08:59:22
Edited by: Qutsemnie on 08/04/2004 08:55:34
Your math is flawed siddy. Leave it in percent cause when you mixed em it went sour. Indeed lets "do the math"
The 100% insurance cost 30% of your ships pay off. That means you get 70% return for insuring.
If you do nothing you get a 40% return. You loose 30% of your ships value by doing nothing.
The only reason that wouldnt be true is if you can go 12 weeks without blowing yourself up. Your not trying or not playing if thats true =) either way you didnt influence anyone or anything.
Is there anyone rationally using the default insurance? Rationally meaning you can show how you gain by loosing 30% of your ships value.
poin is : loosing uninshured ship dont hurt so much as it used to 
-------------------------------------------
|
Pychian Vanervi
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 11:02:00 -
[33]
Quote:
Quote:
NPC hunting in 0.0 and PvP. Only problem I have in NPC hunting is landing on top of the spawn ...they don't like me joinig their orge. And a little mining in a .5 system to get Veld and Scord with little risk.
Main reason I lose ships? PvP and instalocking NPC's. One is my fault, other is faulty game mechanics. But I usually pay for insurance and don't use the basic 40%...even with premium I lose isk, just as Siddy outlined.
Ok now without trying to pry too deep into your income, what would you roughly make a week doing what you do?
Now I am quoting myself. 
But anyway, the synic in me thinks you earn at least enough to cover what you may lose if you happened to get insta kicked by the rats?
-----------------------------
It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
|
Bogenhagen
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 11:10:00 -
[34]
Quote:
Ok now without trying to pry too deep into your income, what would you roughly make a week doing what you do?
Not much atm...maybe 1 mil a day . Still rusty from my break from the game
|
Pychian Vanervi
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 11:23:00 -
[35]
Quote:
Quote:
Ok now without trying to pry too deep into your income, what would you roughly make a week doing what you do?
Not much atm...maybe 1 mil a day . Still rusty from my break from the game
So would you say you fall into the catagory of a players that wish's to go and play with the big boys and big toys but do not have all the skills atm to do so?
You happily go and put yourself and ship at risk knowing that there is insurance there to back any mistakes?
This in turn making 0.0 not the danger ground to go out and feel like you have achieved but a training ground where you can live semi risk free?
1 million a day, you can make that hands down in a .4 system on bounty and drops.
-----------------------------
It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
|
Bogenhagen
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 11:34:00 -
[36]
Quote:
So would you say you fall into the catagory of a players that wish's to go and play with the big boys and big toys but do not have all the skills atm to do so?
You happily go and put yourself and ship at risk knowing that there is insurance there to back any mistakes?
This in turn making 0.0 not the danger ground to go out and feel like you have achieved but a training ground where you can live semi risk free?
1 million a day, you can make that hands down in a .4 system on bounty and drops.
Nah, I have 7 mil skill points...don't ask long story that doesn't need to be aired here. But this account was an alt of a friend that was about to cancel the account. I acquired it with nil assets except a Rupture and a Wreathe. Add a week to get comfortable with game mechanics again (6 months and the game has changed), and then the entire Corp moves 50 some odd jumps...just haven't had time to do much earning  The mil a day comes from maybe 2 hours online.
Basically I'm starting fresh, and yes having insurance gives me some piece of mind going into a battle. Even though I know I still take a net loss, it's less of a net loss.
|
Imhotep Wade
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 15:10:00 -
[37]
Definitly privitizing insurance would be awesome. its the perfect answer. That way the risk reward ratio is not set arbitrarily.
Arbitrarity is the enemy of balance.
|
SwitchBl4d3
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 15:33:00 -
[38]
Just do away with insurance totally. The quickest way to beat down corps will be via battle once again. Also you will see corps working together more be it mining or a weekly whip to finance private insurance.
It will get team spirits and motivation once again it will make podding a corp back to last year eaiser.
"Teh lord of Nonni"
|
SwitchBl4d3
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 15:33:00 -
[39]
Just do away with insurance totally. The quickest way to beat down corps will be via battle once again. Also you will see corps working together more be it mining or a weekly whip to finance private insurance.
It will get team spirits and motivation once again it will make podding a corp back to last year eaiser.
"Teh lord of Nonni"
|
Dirtball
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 16:16:00 -
[40]
just do away with insurance.
It's stupid.
It's like playing chess and being able to do over your last move.
|
Razaelle
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 16:20:00 -
[41]
My thoughs about this problem :
1/ Insurances are good for starting, casual and solo players, because they are not too much screwed when they loose a ship. When you are not part of a good corpo/alliance, it can be very long to make up for this loose, and quite boring, if insurances weren't there. Now, this is encouraging these players to go on pvp, as they won't loose that much if their ship explode.
2/ insurances are bad for larger corpo/alliances that are at war with others, because it makes it virtually impossible to land a final killing blow on your ennemy. They always have money coming in, so the war can not end. So, you have ennemies who keep coming regardeless of the damages you have inflicted to their fleet. Warring without purpose nor accomplishement can become very boring. And this is removing all dynamic in the general politic scheme of the game
So, let resume this :
- Insurrances are fine on a player scale
- Insurrances are bad on a corpo/alliance scale
Problem is : actually, the only way to hurt a corporation is to kill its ships. But the ships are player owned. The insurance helps the player, but makes that the ship loose doesn't hurt the corporation.
The solution would be that wars should be aimed at destroying corporation assets -not individual player assets.
This is not possible, actually.
But I hope that the shiva patch, with its manufacturable structures, will lead to this situation where you can badly hurt a corporation by destroying their structures, without penalizing too much individuals who loose a ship and don't have the needed backup.
|
Lachenlaud
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 16:51:00 -
[42]
Ok - here's MY two cents. I don't know of a single insurance company (that's not to say they don't exist) that will insure an Army Tank going into a combat zone. Insurance companies aren't that stupid. ;) So... here's what I suggest:
1) If you are in a corp or solo and NOT currently in a 'WAR' situation with another corp, you SHOULD be able to purchase insurance.
2) If you are in a corp that is at WAR with one or more other corps, then you SHOULD NOT be permitted insurance.
3) Someone gets war declared on them, any insurance policies currently open by their corp members get refunded on a pro-rated basis.
This solution should satisfy everyone because the Alliances that are at war with other alliances will be able to have a REAL war without having to worry about infinite resources from 'Insurance Payoffs' yet the guy flying the megathron in 0.5+ space with seven mining lasers on it or the guy in the hauler that gets ganked by a kestral wing with cruise missiles griefing at a gate can still cover their butts.
[email protected]
http://www.goi-eve.com/forums/
Check out the Eve Master Datasheet here!! |
Shackleton
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 17:11:00 -
[43]
'd either like to see players get individual insurance ratings based on personal security ratings and the number deaths over time played by the character OR have insurance payout affected by the security rating of the system you got podded in. Either way, the amount of risk you take on should effect your ability to get insurance and get a payout large enough to cover your loses.
I also think that your npc insurance policy should be voided if you enter 0.0 space and that players and corps should get the option to offer policies then.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |