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Trojanman190
Yultani Advanced Research and Reproduction
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Posted - 2008.03.10 23:37:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Butzewutze Edited by: Butzewutze on 10/03/2008 23:25:07
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Butzewutze
Yeah okay, but then minmatar had nothing as advantage. They wouldnt be nano'ed then, they wouldnt have the most firepower nor the best tank... why should someone play minmatar then?
Minmatar dont have speed? Minmatar dont have capless weapons? Minmatar dont have agility? Minmatar dont have damage type choice? Minmatar dont have versitility?
You fail.
1. Minmatar have speed and can dictate range... but cant hit from there with added falloff-disruptor.
2. Minmatar have capless weapons that dont hit with a single falloff-disruptor.
3. Minmatar have useless agility without hitting something when falloff-disrupted.
4. Minmatar can choose damage-type without hitting something when affected by falloff-disruptor.
5. Minmatar have versatility wich means "crappy everything" "crappy shield tank" or "crappy armor tank" except the Maelstrom and Cyclone/sleipnir wich are very good shieldtanks tbh. but for the vagabond or (fleet)stabber there is only range as an advantage.
So, i think u fail! Tracking disruptor will be the best ewar module if u have one midslot to spare. Example:
Balmer Tracking disruptor(on a frig without bonus):
Tracking disruption script: - 50% tracking
Optimal Disruption script: - 50% optimal
Falloff Disruption script: - 50% falloff(????) -> that means a single frig with a tracking disruptor can successfully disable a vagabond from 72 KM distance without any chance for the vaga to counter it or it has to get into webrange wich means -> death.
If the new apoc changes stay I'll be going amar. Lasers look freaking cool anyways.
This versatility means we arent good enough at much of anything other than running away and that isnt very viable on a battleship. Also, tracking disruptors already did mess up vagabonds, tracking while orbitting at over 500m/s is rough enough as it is.
If tracking disruptors are getting this crazy boost they need to do something this rediculous to target painters.
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Bodhisattvas
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.10 23:37:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Butzewutze Edited by: Butzewutze on 10/03/2008 23:25:07
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Butzewutze
Yeah okay, but then minmatar had nothing as advantage. They wouldnt be nano'ed then, they wouldnt have the most firepower nor the best tank... why should someone play minmatar then?
Minmatar dont have speed? Minmatar dont have capless weapons? Minmatar dont have agility? Minmatar dont have damage type choice? Minmatar dont have versitility?
You fail.
1. Minmatar have speed and can dictate range... but cant hit from there with added falloff-disruptor.
2. Minmatar have capless weapons that dont hit with a single falloff-disruptor.
3. Minmatar have useless agility without hitting something when falloff-disrupted.
4. Minmatar can choose damage-type without hitting something when affected by falloff-disruptor.
5. Minmatar have versatility wich means "crappy everything" "crappy shield tank" or "crappy armor tank" except the Maelstrom and Cyclone/sleipnir wich are very good shieldtanks tbh. but for the vagabond or (fleet)stabber there is only range as an advantage.
So, i think u fail! Tracking disruptor will be the best ewar module if u have one midslot to spare. Example:
Balmer Tracking disruptor(on a frig without bonus):
Tracking disruption script: - 50% tracking
Optimal Disruption script: - 50% optimal
Falloff Disruption script: - 50% falloff(????) -> that means a single frig with a tracking disruptor can successfully disable a vagabond from 72 KM distance without any chance for the vaga to counter it or it has to get into webrange wich means -> death.
Horses for courses, who you meet on the day, or perhaps your paranoid and assume everyone in eve actually has a td fitted that engages you in your crappy vaga hauling hello kitty brochures.
Choose your targets or something, oh and stop whinging so much.
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Butzewutze
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Posted - 2008.03.10 23:38:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Butzewutze Edited by: Butzewutze on 10/03/2008 23:32:38 i forgot something:
Best named ECM cap use: 1.4 cps Best named Sensor Dampener: 1.8 cps Best named Tracking disruptor: 0.9 cps
It will be the best effective ECM for 1 mid slot plus with the lowest cap usage. So this is what u called balance?
Did you read what I wrote above?
No sry, i was a bit to slow and because i am not refreshing this site every 3 seconds(like you) i didnt saw it before i hit reply.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.10 23:38:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Trojanman190
If the new apoc changes stay I'll be going amar. Lasers look freaking cool anyways.
Does this mean youll be fighting for our team on the forums now? -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.10 23:39:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Butzewutze
No sry, i was a bit to slow and because i am not refreshing this site every 3 seconds(like you) i didnt saw it before i hit reply.
Allright then we agree something must be done, as I stated.
*shows off forum page refresh skills* -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare |
Butzewutze
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Posted - 2008.03.10 23:43:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
No. ECM is way better.. at least on a bonused ship.
Most effective unbonused ECM, yes.
-Liang
I dont agree with you.
If i had 1 mid slot(bonused or not) and could choose between:
1 racial or multi-jammer(chance based) 1 target painter(useless imho) 1 sensor dampener(only works at range) 1 tracking disruptor(works 100% everytime / totaly screws turret-ships who are very common in pvp / Disables nanoships completely / lowest cap usage)
i dont have to think very long about that... do u ?
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Pantaloon McPants
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Posted - 2008.03.10 23:48:00 -
[67]
finally my tracking disruptor level 5 skills are going to pay off!! i forsee nothing but awesome times ahead (for me).
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Bodhisattvas
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.10 23:49:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Pantaloon McPants finally my tracking disruptor level 5 skills are going to pay off!! i forsee nothing but awesome times ahead (for me).
Sssssssh not so loud you'll upset them above !!!!
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Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.10 23:52:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Butzewutze
Originally by: Liang Nuren
No. ECM is way better.. at least on a bonused ship.
Most effective unbonused ECM, yes.
-Liang
I dont agree with you.
If i had 1 mid slot(bonused or not) and could choose between:
1 racial or multi-jammer(chance based) 1 target painter(useless imho) 1 sensor dampener(only works at range) 1 tracking disruptor(works 100% everytime / totaly screws turret-ships who are very common in pvp / Disables nanoships completely / lowest cap usage)
i dont have to think very long about that... do u ?
No, I have no pause about it... bonused ECM wtfpwns every situation where a TD might be useful (barring ECCM'd BS's).
-Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance. |
Butzewutze
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Posted - 2008.03.10 23:59:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
No, I have no pause about it... bonused ECM wtfpwns every situation where a TD might be useful (barring ECCM'd BS's).
-Liang
I cant agree with you at this point. I dont see the "wtfpwn" you are talking about with a single jammer... the only advantage i see here is that the ecm can help you to break lock and therefor break warp disruptors so maybe u can left the field without getting destroyed. This wont work with tracking disruptor of course... but is running away "wtfpwnd" in your eyes?
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Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.11 00:05:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Butzewutze
I cant agree with you at this point. I dont see the "wtfpwn" you are talking about with a single jammer... the only advantage i see here is that the ecm can help you to break lock and therefor break warp disruptors so maybe u can left the field without getting destroyed. This wont work with tracking disruptor of course... but is running away "wtfpwnd" in your eyes?
Um, I've "solo" killed a Prophecy, Ferox, Cormorant, Kestrel, and an Ibis all at once with a Falcon and Crow. Turrets do *NOT* fire (at all) if you they're jammed. Nor do they web, warp disrupt, target paint, track disrupt, etc.
Bonused Jamming >>>> Track Disrupting
-Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance. |
Butzewutze
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Posted - 2008.03.11 00:11:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Um, I've "solo" killed a Prophecy, Ferox, Cormorant, Kestrel, and an Ibis all at once with a Falcon and Crow. Turrets do *NOT* fire (at all) if you they're jammed. Nor do they web, warp disrupt, target paint, track disrupt, etc.
Bonused Jamming >>>> Track Disrupting
-Liang
Really... i am very impressed by your piloting skills... but are u still in our conversation? Maybe i should get back to the start so u understand what i am talking about:
Originally by: Butzewutze
If i had 1 mid slot(bonused or not)
So u killed 4 ships at once with 1 jammer? ECM is by far the best electronic warfare in the game(if the cycle is successfull) i know this by myself... without lock -> no scram, no web, no gank. But i am talking about the standard-ship with 1 free med slot... and i dont think that 1 jammer is as good and effective as 1 tracking disruptor, except for the runaway thingy.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.03.11 00:11:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Bodhisattvas Edited by: Bodhisattvas on 10/03/2008 23:48:09
Originally by: Butzewutze Edited by: Butzewutze on 10/03/2008 23:25:07
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Butzewutze
Yeah okay, but then minmatar had nothing as advantage. They wouldnt be nano'ed then, they wouldnt have the most firepower nor the best tank... why should someone play minmatar then?
Minmatar dont have speed? Minmatar dont have capless weapons? Minmatar dont have agility? Minmatar dont have damage type choice? Minmatar dont have versitility?
You fail.
1. Minmatar have speed and can dictate range... but cant hit from there with added falloff-disruptor.
2. Minmatar have capless weapons that dont hit with a single falloff-disruptor.
3. Minmatar have useless agility without hitting something when falloff-disrupted.
4. Minmatar can choose damage-type without hitting something when affected by falloff-disruptor.
5. Minmatar have versatility wich means "crappy everything" "crappy shield tank" or "crappy armor tank" except the Maelstrom and Cyclone/sleipnir wich are very good shieldtanks tbh. but for the vagabond or (fleet)stabber there is only range as an advantage.
So, i think u fail! Tracking disruptor will be the best ewar module if u have one midslot to spare. Example:
Balmer Tracking disruptor(on a frig without bonus):
Tracking disruption script: - 50% tracking
Optimal Disruption script: - 50% optimal
Falloff Disruption script: - 50% falloff(????) -> that means a single frig with a tracking disruptor can successfully disable a vagabond from 72 KM distance without any chance for the vaga to counter it or it has to get into webrange wich means -> death.
Horses for courses, who you meet on the day, or perhaps your paranoid and assume everyone in eve actually has a td fitted that engages you in your crappy vaga hauling hello kitty brochures.
I flies vagabonds and if someone sets a td on me and the pain don't come for him then I move on or hey here's something to keep you occupied for a bit, put a tracking mod on instead of 2 gyro's (vaga) knock youself out put 2 on for the hell of it.
Your next post will be entitled "me vags got crappy damage" I guess.
Can't wins it seems
Choose your targets or something, oh and stop whinging so much.
TDs take midslots - aren't most amarr ships rather short in midslots? Caldari ships have them but using them gimps tank - TDs are probably low on the priority list.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services
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Posted - 2008.03.11 00:28:00 -
[74]
The main issue with adding falloff bonuses to TC and TE is that Minmatar nanoships fight exclusively in falloff. Any boost to falloff directly translates into an equivalent DPS increase.
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Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.11 00:29:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Butzewutze
So u killed 4 ships at once with 1 jammer? ECM is by far the best electronic warfare in the game(if the cycle is successfull) i know this by myself... without lock -> no scram, no web, no gank. But i am talking about the standard-ship with 1 free med slot... and i dont think that 1 jammer is as good and effective as 1 tracking disruptor, except for the runaway thingy.
Actually, I kept 1 jammer on each ship.... and it auto cycled every time for the entire engagement (including their re-warpins).
Yes, 1 bonused jammer is almost 100% a win. Especially because a bonused jammer will never fail a jam cycle against anything smaller than a cruiser (even multispec).
-Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance. |
Butzewutze
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Posted - 2008.03.11 00:40:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Butzewutze on 11/03/2008 00:40:00
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Butzewutze
So u killed 4 ships at once with 1 jammer? ECM is by far the best electronic warfare in the game(if the cycle is successfull) i know this by myself... without lock -> no scram, no web, no gank. But i am talking about the standard-ship with 1 free med slot... and i dont think that 1 jammer is as good and effective as 1 tracking disruptor, except for the runaway thingy.
Actually, I kept 1 jammer on each ship.... and it auto cycled every time for the entire engagement (including their re-warpins).
Yes, 1 bonused jammer is almost 100% a win. Especially because a bonused jammer will never fail a jam cycle against anything smaller than a cruiser (even multispec).
-Liang
Hm... okay. This wont give a result... you want to tell me that a ship with 1 multi-jammer is better suited against everything that you can encounter in deep 0.0 than a ship with 1 tracking disruptor. I dont agree with that because like u mention allready... if there is a bigger target u wont jam him successfully everytime... and i dont think that u used just 1 jammer per target at your example. You hit the first jammer... and if not successfull you activated the next one... this is fine and business as usual for a falcon / rook. But we are talking about 1 med slot here... not about 5 jammers available but only 1 needed if the cycle was successfull. 1 Jammer, that means a bigger target will grill your poor little ship to pieces if u fail a single time. Tracking disruptor instead work equaly against all shiptypes... against all sensors, 100% everytime and guess what... u dont need a specialized ship for that.
So we dont agree to each other... but thats fine for me... because i dont want to have a 1 hour discussion about that.
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Butzewutze
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Posted - 2008.03.11 11:27:00 -
[77]
*bump
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X99 Z990
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Posted - 2008.03.11 11:38:00 -
[78]
so you can hit at 16km with close range ammo and close range guns and the thought of someone being able to do something about it scares you?
the addition of falloff mods ie. over tracking computers/enhancers would make vagas able to deal good damage while kiting around 20km, the likeliness of it being used as a counter to tracking disruptors is ridiculously naieve. I dont fit tracking computers/enhancers on my amarr ships in the thought that. "Oh i may get tracking disrupted."
Makes no difference only that tracking disruptors will work to counter the already existant large falloff on autocannons. So really its not that projectiles now need a counter for tracking disruptors.. its that there is now a counter to projectiles. Making a counter for a counter? sounds really really stupid.
I fly both minmatar and amarr so i am not biased in any sense, just seems like a sensible change to make an underused ewar more effective against another line of turrets... next step missiles!
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Butzewutze
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Posted - 2008.03.11 11:48:00 -
[79]
Originally by: X99 Z990 so you can hit at 16km with close range ammo and close range guns and the thought of someone being able to do something about it scares you?
torpedoes, Pulselaser... all can fire at this distance with the difference that u will have much more optimal range. But thats not the point... as an amarr u dont use tracking enhancer... thats normal because u probably get into closerange fights with your thick armor. But the Vagabond dont has a big tank... it has to maintain the 15 km orbit around its target so it wont get destroyed... but now with a single tracking disruptor on the vagabond and u wont hit sh1t. U can counter tracking disruptors sometimes when u dont orbit the target but just stay at range without moving in circles... or u just add some tracking enhancer but what should we do if our weapons have 5 km range? Minmatar dont have the ubertank to fight in webrange.
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Cpt Branko
Surge. Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.03.11 11:57:00 -
[80]
The fact that now a simple Myrmidon (or whatever) can stick a TD in its spare slot and push a Hurricane to 8km falloff is utterly redicilous.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.11 11:59:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Butzewutze
Originally by: X99 Z990 so you can hit at 16km with close range ammo and close range guns and the thought of someone being able to do something about it scares you?
torpedoes, Pulselaser... all can fire at this distance with the difference that u will have much more optimal range. But thats not the point... as an amarr u dont use tracking enhancer... thats normal because u probably get into closerange fights with your thick armor. But the Vagabond dont has a big tank... it has to maintain the 15 km orbit around its target so it wont get destroyed... but now with a single tracking disruptor on the vagabond and u wont hit sh1t. U can counter tracking disruptors sometimes when u dont orbit the target but just stay at range without moving in circles... or u just add some tracking enhancer but what should we do if our weapons have 5 km range? Minmatar dont have the ubertank to fight in webrange.
Im pretty sure youre pretty wrong and Im sure MANY MANY players will still fly vagabonds. This isnt the end of the world like you like to make people belive you know. The tank of a vaga isnt much worse then a tank of a zealot. So turret ships get hurt by TDs, they all do. Big deal. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.11 12:01:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Cpt Branko The fact that now a simple Myrmidon (or whatever) can stick a TD in its spare slot and push a Hurricane to 8km falloff is utterly redicilous.
Thats why we need to nerf TDs and boost the bonus on the recon ships instead. Not give minmatar overpowered damage mods in mids and lows that dont stack with gyros, thats not solving the problem from the root. And no one really has any proof of how its going to be after the patch kicks in. There maybe not THAT man people fitting TDs in mids after all, who knows. Time will tell. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare |
Butzewutze
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Posted - 2008.03.11 12:07:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Butzewutze
Originally by: X99 Z990 so you can hit at 16km with close range ammo and close range guns and the thought of someone being able to do something about it scares you?
torpedoes, Pulselaser... all can fire at this distance with the difference that u will have much more optimal range. But thats not the point... as an amarr u dont use tracking enhancer... thats normal because u probably get into closerange fights with your thick armor. But the Vagabond dont has a big tank... it has to maintain the 15 km orbit around its target so it wont get destroyed... but now with a single tracking disruptor on the vagabond and u wont hit sh1t. U can counter tracking disruptors sometimes when u dont orbit the target but just stay at range without moving in circles... or u just add some tracking enhancer but what should we do if our weapons have 5 km range? Minmatar dont have the ubertank to fight in webrange.
Im pretty sure youre pretty wrong and Im sure MANY MANY players will still fly vagabonds. This isnt the end of the world like you like to make people belive you know. The tank of a vaga isnt much worse then a tank of a zealot. So turret ships get hurt by TDs, they all do. Big deal.
U dont get it dont u? The vagabond never has the same tank as a zealot... u can fit a crappy armortank or a mediocre shield tank but this one will be useless in pvp because u will need a web, scram, mwd so u can mount a shieldtank with 1 slot. And beside of that the vagabond has 950 capacitor with mwd fitted... thats enough to activate the mwd sometimes and have a scrambler running but u wont get more than that.
Sure the other ships were affected by tracking disruptor but they were not affected as hard as the vagabond will. With the zealot u go into webrange... web your target and at this point tracking becomes almost useless because the target isnt moving at all. You dont even notice it if u are Optimal range disrupted because u get into 5 km distance so your 10km range is reduced to 5km but this dont change anything. The Vagabond hasnt the big tank... it cant counter the falloff-disruption by any module. It cant fit a standard-pvp-fitting and can be competetive to other hacs. Thats the point!
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
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Posted - 2008.03.11 12:15:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Butzewutze Edited by: Butzewutze on 10/03/2008 23:32:38 i forgot something:
Best named ECM cap use: 1.4 cps Best named Sensor Dampener: 1.8 cps Best named Tracking disruptor: 0.9 cps
It will be the best effective ECM for 1 mid slot plus with the lowest cap usage. So this is what u called balance?
Yes, it will be the most effective EW module, unless you're using it against a missile boat, an EW boat, or a drone boat. In those instances, tracking disruptors are completely worthless.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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X99 Z990
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Posted - 2008.03.11 12:20:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Butzewutze
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Butzewutze
Originally by: X99 Z990 so you can hit at 16km with close range ammo and close range guns and the thought of someone being able to do something about it scares you?
torpedoes, Pulselaser... all can fire at this distance with the difference that u will have much more optimal range. But thats not the point... as an amarr u dont use tracking enhancer... thats normal because u probably get into closerange fights with your thick armor. But the Vagabond dont has a big tank... it has to maintain the 15 km orbit around its target so it wont get destroyed... but now with a single tracking disruptor on the vagabond and u wont hit sh1t. U can counter tracking disruptors sometimes when u dont orbit the target but just stay at range without moving in circles... or u just add some tracking enhancer but what should we do if our weapons have 5 km range? Minmatar dont have the ubertank to fight in webrange.
Im pretty sure youre pretty wrong and Im sure MANY MANY players will still fly vagabonds. This isnt the end of the world like you like to make people belive you know. The tank of a vaga isnt much worse then a tank of a zealot. So turret ships get hurt by TDs, they all do. Big deal.
U dont get it dont u? The vagabond never has the same tank as a zealot... u can fit a crappy armortank or a mediocre shield tank but this one will be useless in pvp because u will need a web, scram, mwd so u can mount a shieldtank with 1 slot. And beside of that the vagabond has 950 capacitor with mwd fitted... thats enough to activate the mwd sometimes and have a scrambler running but u wont get more than that.
Sure the other ships were affected by tracking disruptor but they were not affected as hard as the vagabond will. With the zealot u go into webrange... web your target and at this point tracking becomes almost useless because the target isnt moving at all. You dont even notice it if u are Optimal range disrupted because u get into 5 km distance so your 10km range is reduced to 5km but this dont change anything. The Vagabond hasnt the big tank... it cant counter the falloff-disruption by any module. It cant fit a standard-pvp-fitting and can be competetive to other hacs. Thats the point!
Where do you get space for a web on a zealot and why does a vaga need to fit a web?
You make little sense humanling.
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Butzewutze
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Posted - 2008.03.11 12:24:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Butzewutze on 11/03/2008 12:25:19
Originally by: X99 Z990
Originally by: Butzewutze
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Butzewutze
Originally by: X99 Z990 so you can hit at 16km with close range ammo and close range guns and the thought of someone being able to do something about it scares you?
torpedoes, Pulselaser... all can fire at this distance with the difference that u will have much more optimal range. But thats not the point... as an amarr u dont use tracking enhancer... thats normal because u probably get into closerange fights with your thick armor. But the Vagabond dont has a big tank... it has to maintain the 15 km orbit around its target so it wont get destroyed... but now with a single tracking disruptor on the vagabond and u wont hit sh1t. U can counter tracking disruptors sometimes when u dont orbit the target but just stay at range without moving in circles... or u just add some tracking enhancer but what should we do if our weapons have 5 km range? Minmatar dont have the ubertank to fight in webrange.
Im pretty sure youre pretty wrong and Im sure MANY MANY players will still fly vagabonds. This isnt the end of the world like you like to make people belive you know. The tank of a vaga isnt much worse then a tank of a zealot. So turret ships get hurt by TDs, they all do. Big deal.
U dont get it dont u? The vagabond never has the same tank as a zealot... u can fit a crappy armortank or a mediocre shield tank but this one will be useless in pvp because u will need a web, scram, mwd so u can mount a shieldtank with 1 slot. And beside of that the vagabond has 950 capacitor with mwd fitted... thats enough to activate the mwd sometimes and have a scrambler running but u wont get more than that.
Sure the other ships were affected by tracking disruptor but they were not affected as hard as the vagabond will. With the zealot u go into webrange... web your target and at this point tracking becomes almost useless because the target isnt moving at all. You dont even notice it if u are Optimal range disrupted because u get into 5 km distance so your 10km range is reduced to 5km but this dont change anything. The Vagabond hasnt the big tank... it cant counter the falloff-disruption by any module. It cant fit a standard-pvp-fitting and can be competetive to other hacs. Thats the point!
Where do you get space for a web on a zealot and why does a vaga need to fit a web?
You make little sense humanling.
Do u read? We talked about a tanked vagabond and that it can counter the falloff-disruption when fighting in webrange, so it would be logicaly to fit a web on it or not? I really dont know where u have problems to understand... u allready quoted the part we are talking about.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.03.11 12:34:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Butzewutze Edited by: Butzewutze on 10/03/2008 23:32:38 i forgot something:
Best named ECM cap use: 1.4 cps Best named Sensor Dampener: 1.8 cps Best named Tracking disruptor: 0.9 cps
It will be the best effective ECM for 1 mid slot plus with the lowest cap usage. So this is what u called balance?
Yes, it will be the most effective EW module, unless you're using it against a missile boat, an EW boat, or a drone boat. In those instances, tracking disruptors are completely worthless.
Don't forget: Or a sniper that's firing at you from outside TD range.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
X99 Z990
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Posted - 2008.03.11 12:43:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Butzewutze Edited by: Butzewutze on 11/03/2008 12:25:19
Originally by: X99 Z990
Originally by: Butzewutze
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Butzewutze
Originally by: X99 Z990 so you can hit at 16km with close range ammo and close range guns and the thought of someone being able to do something about it scares you?
torpedoes, Pulselaser... all can fire at this distance with the difference that u will have much more optimal range. But thats not the point... as an amarr u dont use tracking enhancer... thats normal because u probably get into closerange fights with your thick armor. But the Vagabond dont has a big tank... it has to maintain the 15 km orbit around its target so it wont get destroyed... but now with a single tracking disruptor on the vagabond and u wont hit sh1t. U can counter tracking disruptors sometimes when u dont orbit the target but just stay at range without moving in circles... or u just add some tracking enhancer but what should we do if our weapons have 5 km range? Minmatar dont have the ubertank to fight in webrange.
Im pretty sure youre pretty wrong and Im sure MANY MANY players will still fly vagabonds. This isnt the end of the world like you like to make people belive you know. The tank of a vaga isnt much worse then a tank of a zealot. So turret ships get hurt by TDs, they all do. Big deal.
U dont get it dont u? The vagabond never has the same tank as a zealot... u can fit a crappy armortank or a mediocre shield tank but this one will be useless in pvp because u will need a web, scram, mwd so u can mount a shieldtank with 1 slot. And beside of that the vagabond has 950 capacitor with mwd fitted... thats enough to activate the mwd sometimes and have a scrambler running but u wont get more than that.
Sure the other ships were affected by tracking disruptor but they were not affected as hard as the vagabond will. With the zealot u go into webrange... web your target and at this point tracking becomes almost useless because the target isnt moving at all. You dont even notice it if u are Optimal range disrupted because u get into 5 km distance so your 10km range is reduced to 5km but this dont change anything. The Vagabond hasnt the big tank... it cant counter the falloff-disruption by any module. It cant fit a standard-pvp-fitting and can be competetive to other hacs. Thats the point!
Where do you get space for a web on a zealot and why does a vaga need to fit a web?
You make little sense humanling.
Do u read? We talked about a tanked vagabond and that it can counter the falloff-disruption when fighting in webrange, so it would be logicaly to fit a web on it or not? I really dont know where u have problems to understand... u allready quoted the part we are talking about.
Thats illogical, your setup would only be effective for countering tracking disruptors.
Fitting a web on a zealot often means dropping a warp disruptor? Whats the point. Id rather fit an ECCM for the more frequently used EWAR than change my setup for tracking disruptors.
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Cpt Branko
Surge. Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.03.11 12:44:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Cpt Branko The fact that now a simple Myrmidon (or whatever) can stick a TD in its spare slot and push a Hurricane to 8km falloff is utterly redicilous.
Thats why we need to nerf TDs and boost the bonus on the recon ships instead.
This would be optimal.
A single unbonused ECM is only marginally useful, and a single unbonused dampener is rubbish.
On the other hand, a single unbonused TD can make it very safe to stick out of webrange versus ships it previously wasn't (like Hurricanes and Harbringers and their tier 1 counterparts).
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Butzewutze
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Posted - 2008.03.11 12:45:00 -
[90]
okay, so many guys told here that this will be just to balance things out. I cant agree with that... there are many counters against nanoships: ecm, tr. disruptor, factionwebs, neutralizer or just overtank your ship. But what about missiles? Missiles cant be countered with any module except speed. So there are 4 -5 counter against a vagabond but only 1 against caldari-ships. U cant damp them or jam them... tracking disruptor are useless against missiles too... why dont we have a "rapid-defender-Missile Launcher I" so we can counter the missilespam too. I dont see the balance here. Think about a module wich reduces the range of torpedoes to 5km "WITHOUT A COUNTER". This is fair, hm? If that would happen... then the caldari-citizens would wreck the forum and ccp would apologize and remove the module or would bring a counter. But what we got here... we got exactly the same situation, but still no developer around telling what they think about that.
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