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Do we get one day back on our subscription?

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Lord Bleu	Posted - 2008.03.13 10:31:00 - [31] Originally by: Error404 Every time they patch this always happens and we never seem to get anything back, we pay for one month sub knowing there will be a 1 hour downtime and not being able to play for a whole day I find unacceptable. I mean the server is a pile of crap and frigging often lose ships due to how unstable it is and CCP give nothing back from that, even though it's their fault. I just don't get how people have played sooo long and accepted this crap? What I find unacceptable is people complaining about CCP making 'improvements' to the game. Unfortunately they have to deal with computers and data. There is more often than not unforseen problems which cuase delays. What would you prefer? They start charging for the 'expansions' and refund you 32p everytime the servers go down for extended maintenance, or they give us this new content and continue to improve the game for free and you shut up about a 32p refund? ------- CONCORD DO Provide safety. Since they provide consequences they act as a derrent thus significantly limiting the number of open hauler attacks in Empire space.
Eben Rochelle	Posted - 2008.03.13 10:36:00 - [32] Originally by: Error404 Every time they patch this always happens and we never seem to get anything back, we pay for one month sub knowing there will be a 1 hour downtime and not being able to play for a whole day I find unacceptable. I mean the server is a pile of crap and frigging often lose ships due to how unstable it is and CCP give nothing back from that, even though it's their fault. I just don't get how people have played sooo long and accepted this crap? No. and can i have your stuff when you quit?
ShadowMaiden	Posted - 2008.03.13 10:46:00 - [33] Originally by: Error404 Every time they patch this always happens and we never seem to get anything back, we pay for one month sub knowing there will be a 1 hour downtime and not being able to play for a whole day I find unacceptable. I mean the server is a pile of crap and frigging often lose ships due to how unstable it is and CCP give nothing back from that, even though it's their fault. I just don't get how people have played sooo long and accepted this crap? 1 - No you don't anything back. CCP can do what they damn well please with the servers, read the EULA. 2 - Paying Ç15 a month does not buy you a seat on the board of directors Thank you, that is all. I wish I was a 3ft Doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes
Ozstar	Posted - 2008.03.13 11:23:00 - [34] No you dont, so suck it up and get on with it.
Heliocon	Posted - 2008.03.13 11:27:00 - [35] LOL someone just got toasted [/url]
Franga	Posted - 2008.03.13 11:37:00 - [36] Originally by: bitters much Are you the guy that also counts your fries when you get your bag from McD ? Hehe. Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
DiscoDice	Posted - 2008.03.13 12:02:00 - [37] the op has a point because ccp changed the accounts to expire at exactly the time which is given in the account management page and not to the next dt. so if ccp "counts their mcd fries" why shouldnt the players too? also: thread has lots of muppets.
Rashmika Clavain	Posted - 2008.03.13 12:15:00 - [38] Originally by: DiscoDice the op has a point because ccp changed the accounts to expire at exactly the time which is given in the account management page and not to the next dt. so if ccp "counts their mcd fries" why shouldnt the players too? also: thread has lots of muppets. Actually no, he doesn't have a point. If CCP have changed the subscription system so you get exactly one calender month from paying to play for one calender month, that's hardly nitpicking. A lot of muppets in thread? Nah just two of three
Frances Ducoir	Posted - 2008.03.13 12:19:00 - [39] so if ccp changes the subsription system to take away up to 23h of playtime from the players its no nitpicking but when players ask for reimbursement of patch time (which was a lot longer than announced) it is nitpicking? i fail to see the logic behind this. snip Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch
Kaalise	Posted - 2008.03.13 12:24:00 - [40] I still think they should refund anyone who asks for for; along with the requisite admin fee.
Xalent	Posted - 2008.03.13 12:27:00 - [41] Meh, its a leap year, you just broke even.
AleRiperKilt	Posted - 2008.03.13 12:31:00 - [42] Well I am a 2 month noob and I find all this downtime crap unacceptable. For all of you saying "you are getting free upgrades so shut up", you guys got it wrong. There are two ways to sell software: 1. "Up front": You pay for a fully operational piece of software. If you want new features you have to buy upgrades. (Microsoft way) 2. Subscription way: You pay a "maintenance monthly fee" so your software is always up-to-date CCP service is a Subscription. Upgrades are part of their service and therefore included in the monthly fee. If they want to charge for upgrades, they need to provide a FULLY OPERATIONAL client that DOESN'T NEED THEIR SERVERS. I just don't get how they justify any downtime at all. Any competent developer would figure out ways to run a 24/7 service with backups and upgrades without shutting it down (DBA Hint: database logs, even Microsoft's SQL Server has them). I mean the main feature you work on when developing a service's server is high availability. See how Eve withdrawal makes us rant? --- 1. Fit wrong stuff to ship 2. Post screenshot in Eve Forums 3. ???? 4. PROFIT!
Apul MadeekAoud	Posted - 2008.03.13 12:31:00 - [43] if the 12 cents you didnt use is too much for you, try a different game, i hear "Guild Wars" is a free game?!?! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gentle Bra	Posted - 2008.03.13 12:35:00 - [44] Originally by: Error404 Every time they patch this always happens and we never seem to get anything back, we pay for one month sub knowing there will be a 1 hour downtime and not being able to play for a whole day I find unacceptable. I mean the server is a pile of crap and frigging often lose ships due to how unstable it is and CCP give nothing back from that, even though it's their fault. I just don't get how people have played sooo long and accepted this crap? Trollus Maximus.
Khanid Kutie	Posted - 2008.03.13 12:48:00 - [45] Originally by: Error404 Every time they patch this always happens and we never seem to get anything back, we pay for one month sub knowing there will be a 1 hour downtime and not being able to play for a whole day I find unacceptable. I mean the server is a pile of crap and frigging often lose ships due to how unstable it is and CCP give nothing back from that, even though it's their fault. I just don't get how people have played sooo long and accepted this crap? You ARE kidding right? They even TELL you to anticipate a longer than expected DT, and you STILL beg for a 1 day refund? How about giving me a 2 minute refund for wasting my time with a ** thread? ____________________________________________ Originally by:** Thargat They should change the name of CAOD to EvE Zoo. Please to not feed the animals.
Cerzi	Posted - 2008.03.13 12:57:00 - [46] Originally by: AleRiperKilt Well I am a 2 month noob and I find all this downtime crap unacceptable. For all of you saying "you are getting free upgrades so shut up", you guys got it wrong. There are two ways to sell software: 1. "Up front": You pay for a fully operational piece of software. If you want new features you have to buy upgrades. (Microsoft way) 2. Subscription way: You pay a "maintenance monthly fee" so your software is always up-to-date The point being made is that almost every other subscription-based MMO also charges for expansions. In return they may offer a day free here and there, but that works out to a few cents, which is a fair bit less than the cost of paying for an expansion every 3 months. Everyone demanding free time off CCP needs to grow the **** up; you're hassling one of the least greedy developers in the business, give them a break.
Szap Light	Posted - 2008.03.13 13:09:00 - [47] I think its our right to ask for reimbursement. I pay for proper patches as well in my monthly fee. And this latest patch does not look like a patch that should go live considering the problems it caused. Perhaps doubling the Q/A team to 4 members would be a good idea. I know of course that there are much people involved in testing and stuff but if there are so BIG problems after this patch... did ccp really do everything they could to prevent this? So i say CCP should suffer the consequences then and pay back the money. I dont need money to be honest its more about teaching ccp to exercise more care.
Val Vympel	Posted - 2008.03.13 13:19:00 - [48] Originally by: AleRiperKilt Well I am a 2 month noob and I find all this downtime crap unacceptable. For all of you saying "you are getting free upgrades so shut up", you guys got it wrong. There are two ways to sell software: 1. "Up front": You pay for a fully operational piece of software. If you want new features you have to buy upgrades. (Microsoft way) 2. Subscription way: You pay a "maintenance monthly fee" so your software is always up-to-date CCP service is a Subscription. Upgrades are part of their service and therefore included in the monthly fee. If they want to charge for upgrades, they need to provide a FULLY OPERATIONAL client that DOESN'T NEED THEIR SERVERS. I just don't get how they justify any downtime at all. Any competent developer would figure out ways to run a 24/7 service with backups and upgrades without shutting it down (DBA Hint: database logs, even Microsoft's SQL Server has them). I mean the main feature you work on when developing a service's server is high availability. See how Eve withdrawal makes us rant? 1.My shiny new automobile for which I paid upfront is FULLY OPERATIONAL. 2.I pay a "monthly maintenance fee" to the dealership for the service of my shiny new automobile. Eureka! [slaps knee] I will from now on oblige the mechanic to change the motor oil,sparkplugs and balance the tires of my shiny new automobile,concurrent with my traveling in my shiny new automobile along my local freeway. How convenient. Hmmm..? Or perhaps it would be more prudent and justified if I demand that the dealership give me "loaner" or a rental car to compensate me for my time while said service(stationary)takes place on my shiny new automobile. The dealership owes me that level of service after all.. I pay them $19.99 a month. Cheers
Tarminic	Posted - 2008.03.13 13:20:00 - [49] I will personally reimburse you for the extra downtime. However, I will charge you for the cost of the stamp and envelope, so you will most likely lose money. ---------------- Tarminic - 33 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.79.1
Yunii	Posted - 2008.03.13 13:33:00 - [50] Originally by: Xalent Meh, its a leap year, you just broke even. /signed. ------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Arkanon I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers.
Dramund	Posted - 2008.03.13 13:33:00 - [51] Edited by: Dramund on 13/03/2008 13:33:15 Here is an interesting thought for whiners: CCP doesn't owe you anything Let that settle in for a moment. They created the work of art known as EVE Online: something I doubt many people could conceptualize, organize, market, and maintain. They clearly wrote out the terms for your monthly subscription fee in the EULA to which your consent to payment is completely voluntary. This includes downtime for maintenance and the possibility that your "hard work" could be banned/deleted at any moment. This is a good thing since anyone who actually understood this upon agreeing to the EULA can also develop a detached attitude to the game that only means fun. Its too bad we get people that hit "TLDR Accept" but can apparently write just as much.
Kaalise	Posted - 2008.03.13 13:44:00 - [52] Originally by: AleRiperKilt Well I am a 2 month noob and I find all this downtime crap unacceptable.[..] The downtime has nothing to do with the database. It's to reset the sol servers. So kindly stop whining about things you are clearly clueless about. Then again, you are a "2 month noob"...
Sorted	Posted - 2008.03.13 13:51:00 - [53] Free expansions and huge updates? o hang on , hears your ú1.70 for downtime this year, and heres your bill for the last expansion, ú19.99 Its give and take.
Minerva Seraph	Posted - 2008.03.13 14:08:00 - [54] I don't understand what people find unreasonable with the OP. He's saying that he feels like he didn't get the entire product he paid for. Many of the responses suggest that the patches are free, but the same can be said about any software vendor who lives in the real world. I'm sure that even World of Warcraft subscribers without expansions are still offered patches to update against client bugs. Sure, we get expansions for free, but that's because CCP has decided that it fits in their business model. I for one appreaciate it every six months, and I'm willing to live with the bugs that it comes with, so long as a certain level of support exists - Changing skills and flying around are chief among those. If my Cable service announced that they needed 14 hours to install new infrastructure to improve my picture quality, I'd probably agree. It doesn't need to happen often, but I'd survive. However if ran with my acceptance and decided that they'd make it a 2 day outage, you bet I'd call to request some kind of compensation, and I'd do this regardless of whether I receive premium channels. The posters in this thread have confused the issue - The OP didn't ask for fifty cents. They asked for time to be credited to their account. The difference is significant. Ignoring the fact that the user makes unwarranted jabs at CCP for the loss of their ships (Those policies are usually quite clear; sorry for your loss), I think it would be quite reasonable for the user to have the downtime minus the 14hour window and regular downtime periods credited. Before any apologists suggest that I'm "backseat adminning", I'll point out that each of you are guilty of the same thing. What bothers me the most about this thread is that CCP hasn't responded. Why are hordes of subscribers slamming the OP about a concern that the game operators should be addressing? In closing, I'm not asking for compansation myself. I don't care enough to fight the issue. I decided that this thread was derailed and needed a counterpoint. Random Replies Originally by: Glengrant You don't get money back because there was a patch or february has less days. It's a monthly flat rate. Daily downtime and occasional patch days are part of the package you pay for. Feel safe in the knowledge you wereb't the first to bring that up. Actually it's a couple of folks every patch day. Would you rather that patches don't happen or that CCP wastes effort on micromanaging small payments instead of improving and administrating Eve? There's no accounting system in place to pay back fractional fees and there is quite a diversity of pay methods: credit card, direct debit, now via Steam and what about GTC? It's simply not worth the hassle and again patch days are part of the eve package you pay for. Actually, it's not a monthly rate - It's a rate for 30 days. There's a difference. Every time you make a payment, it records the hour that you applied it. Check your account information to see for yourself. Besides the fact that there is an automated system that can adds time, it's not our place as subscribers to decide what ability that CCP has to render some kind of compensation to subscribers should they decide that it's warranted. While certainly none of that is proof it still calls into question the assertion that they have no way of adding time - even offering 1 day time codes to these users should be possible. Despite that, I agree that patches deployed in a reasonable time frame are an acceptable loss. Daily Downtime can be anticipated, so it's not a problem. We accept it as nature of the game. Originally by: ry ry <snip> only the other day i forgot to set a skill training and missed 2 hours of valuable training time. <Snip> (I know you're kidding, but...) I lost a day of skill training due to the patch, but I accept that as being my responsibility (especially since I sent a corp mail explaining that it was patch day!). Your inaction is your problem.
Voculus	Posted - 2008.03.13 14:12:00 - [55] No, you're out the 50 cents, unfortunately. _________________________________________________________
SkeletonDenial	Posted - 2008.03.13 14:14:00 - [56] Originally by: Error404 .... I just don't get how people have played sooo long and accepted this crap? Its the only time I get any sleep ..... I can't help it. 'Tis what i do.
Chainsaw Plankton	Posted - 2008.03.13 14:16:00 - [57] i have 13.5 days left on my skill they do say LONG skill cant go a day without eve? call a doctor you may have a gaming addiction.
Szap Light	Posted - 2008.03.13 15:17:00 - [58] Just a reply for the "but we get free expansions" guys. What CCP calls expension is nothing but a slightly bigger Major Patch in any other game.
Araxmas	Posted - 2008.03.13 15:20:00 - [59] Originally by: Error404 Every time they patch this always happens and we never seem to get anything back, we pay for one month sub knowing there will be a 1 hour downtime and not being able to play for a whole day I find unacceptable. I mean the server is a pile of crap and frigging often lose ships due to how unstable it is and CCP give nothing back from that, even though it's their fault. I just don't get how people have played sooo long and accepted this crap? You were spinning this same crap at trinity patch. You really need to either get a life and stop trolling or take your own advice and quit. -------- derek
firepup82	Posted - 2008.03.13 15:23:00 - [60] My God.....everytime there is a patch I get tired of seeing this stupid question.

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