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Geeknik
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Posted - 2004.04.10 00:44:00 -
[1]
How about implementing a true Newtonian flight model in the game? Right now when I cut my engines to zero, my ship slows down until it stops. In real life, there is NO drag in space, which means, if you cut your engines to zero you will keep going at your current speed indefinitely, unless you tell your flight computer to stop your ship, which means some kind of braking thruster is turned on to slow and stop your ship. Also, in this flight model, all ships have both linear and angular momentum or inertia.
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I have taken all knowledge to by my province. - Sir Francis Bacon
science & technology news
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.04.10 00:48:00 -
[2]
 Quote:
How about implementing a true Newtonian flight model in the game? Right now when I cut my engines to zero, my ship slows down until it stops. In real life, there is NO drag in space, which means, if you cut your engines to zero you will keep going at your current speed indefinitely, unless you tell your flight computer to stop your ship, which means some kind of braking thruster is turned on to slow and stop your ship. Also, in this flight model, all ships have both linear and angular momentum or inertia.
Not only will you not stop if your engines are off but you will constantly accelerate as long as your engines are on.
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Geeknik
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Posted - 2004.04.10 00:58:00 -
[3]
Quote:
Not only will you not stop if your engines are off but you will constantly accelerate as long as your engines are on.
You still have mass in space, and you can only move as fast as your engines can push that mass, so I don't believe you're going to move any faster then the engines can push you, you just won't keep accelerating. If that was true, the objects in orbit around the Earth would constantly be accelerating and eventually hit the speed of light...
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I have taken all knowledge to by my province. - Sir Francis Bacon
science & technology news
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NightDragon
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Posted - 2004.04.10 02:25:00 -
[4]
Quote:
Quote:
Not only will you not stop if your engines are off but you will constantly accelerate as long as your engines are on.
You still have mass in space, and you can only move as fast as your engines can push that mass, so I don't believe you're going to move any faster then the engines can push you, you just won't keep accelerating. If that was true, the objects in orbit around the Earth would constantly be accelerating and eventually hit the speed of light...
umm what satllie do we have in orbit that has an engine on it exactly?
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Me Loonn
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Posted - 2004.04.10 02:57:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Me Loonn on 10/04/2004 03:13:24
Quote:
You still have mass in space, and you can only move as fast as your engines can push that mass, so I don't believe you're going to move any faster then the engines can push you, you just won't keep accelerating. If that was true, the objects in orbit around the Earth would constantly be accelerating and eventually hit the speed of light...
Any force applied to an object of a mass above zero will cause that object to accelerate to the same derection as the force. This is basic physics. Force "F" applied duration of "t" to object of mass "m" results change of speed (a), aka acceleration that can be calculated mathematically "a = t * F / M" if values are known.
Satellites orbit the Earth in elliptical path just like planets orbit the Sun and Moon orbits the Earth. They dont have engines, either - forces that keep them "up there" are inertia and gravity. Inertia keeps objects in motion and gravity prevents them leaving the "area" - there for we see them travelling on "orbits".
More and better spelled info can be found here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_Laws_of_Motion
Those speedlimits in EVE-universe are there for CCP made them - it is not newtonian "normal" universe, nor anything even remotely similar. This was probably made so due game issues or limitations or what ever, im not a coder so only god knows (CCP doesnt ;).
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Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
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Razaelle
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Posted - 2004.04.10 03:57:00 -
[6]
Using a realistic flight model would make manoeuvring your ship quite hard... It would requiere a far better reactivity of the ship to the player inputs, and that's not very compatible with an online game where lag is a factor.
It's important to keep a good gameplay. And that means it is sometimes better to forget about 'realism'...
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Haratu
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Posted - 2004.04.10 05:24:00 -
[7]
the reason a satelite stays at an orbital velocity has nothing to do with propulsion (basically an orbiting item is falling).
But it is true that if an engine is always on then theoretically a ship can eventually reach close to light speed. However there is some drag in space and a ship will eventually stop... just not at the rate that they do in eve.
I roleplay... there is this computer game called "Earth - The First Genesis" where i play a character in the early 21st century. |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2004.04.10 11:32:00 -
[8]
Quote:
Using a realistic flight model would make manoeuvring your ship quite hard...
....in much the same way that standing directly underneath an exploding hydrogen bomb would be quite dangerous. It takes vast amounts of computing power for NASA to get one ship to successfully intersect the orbit of one planet. How many ships do we have running around, attempt to engage with stations, planets, stargates, and in the case of combat, each other? 
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"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Talona
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Posted - 2004.04.10 11:33:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Talona on 10/04/2004 11:45:29
I agree a Newtonian flight model would be cool, but it would raise way to many problems.
Not only is it rather incompatible with with game features like warp drives and such.
And even if they were compatible, increasing realism would still raise some uncomfortable issues.
Like "how can my character survive going from rest to mach 80 in five seconds?"
This would mean an acceleration of something like 600 g, which sounds like the making of a bad bad day to me. 
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Gunnanmon
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Posted - 2004.04.10 17:45:00 -
[10]
I think you guys forget that this is a game.
Besides, there is a special gravity modifying mechanism in each ship
that slows it down without having the need of an engine...probably.
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Imhotep Wade
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Posted - 2004.04.15 18:34:00 -
[11]
1. Earth satellites are always accelerating, but never going any faster :) That is practically the definition of 'orbit.'
2. F = ma, not Ft = ma
3. Can we safely assume that no one wants the burdeon of directly piloting a spaceship, and that the computer manages the engines to produce the speed requested? I think this is what happens in he space shuttle today.
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Adrimar
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Posted - 2004.04.15 18:38:00 -
[12]
Its a game not a real life simulator.
*locks the topic*
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Synapse Archae
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Posted - 2004.04.15 23:02:00 -
[13]
I look at it this way. It must be some sort of advanced engine technology where the ship itself doesnt tecnically move. Rather, a field at the front of the ship uses quantum mechanics to "convince" particles there that they would really be better off behind teh ship. Thus the ship moves forward. Obviously if the field deactivetates the ship stops. This might also explain how we never run out of fuel.
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Everyone deserves a chance to live.
My job is to make sure they get it. |
Wukk
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Posted - 2004.04.16 02:22:00 -
[14]
Kids, you won't play a realistic model. Not based on Newton nor on Einstein.
You keep your speed infinite, cause no drag. You can accelerate as long as you have fuel. There will be no speed, that call STOPPED. Zero speed is relative to an objekt. Think about two ships passing with 15000 km/s. How long do you thing they are in weapon range? In a realistic model no one will fight with laser and guns. The distances are to big. The only option are missiles. And this only if these missiles can accelerate very high (above 100g). And a fight need much time. Do you have some days to fight ONE fight?
I also wish a better flight model sometimes. The one of I-War f.ex. wasn't bad. But the one CCP create is mmh good enough for Eve I think to keep the action . Maybe some day a game will be more realistic, without being boring.
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Insanicus
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Posted - 2004.04.16 03:11:00 -
[15]
the devs(tomb i think) said this was not possible with the eve engine, simply because of they way the game works
-ins |
Silverlancer
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Posted - 2004.04.16 12:28:00 -
[16]
Actually, you would not speed up to the speed of light over time. According to Newtonian physics, a spaceship cannot travel more than twice as fast as the fuel speeds out of its rocket. Thats why, for example, a fusion ramjet can only reach 12% the speed of light. However, if you put a magnetic accelerator on that ramjet, you can go as fast as you want. EVE ships seem to use the same sort of fusion drives that ships in Homeworld use, so they have a very low maximum speed. Saves on fuel 
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NAGGAROK
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Posted - 2004.04.16 12:39:00 -
[17]
The thing is, space-faring vessels (at least all the new ones out there, such as the ones in EVE, HW, HW:C, HW 2, & most likely all the other space sims) have manuvering vents on them. Basically, when a ship wants to turn, stop, whatever; The ship vents small amounts of drive plasma through small vents positioned on the ship to make it manuver.
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Aleeta
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Posted - 2004.04.16 15:00:00 -
[18]
1.To set it straight, Orbits happen because the force of gravitation: F = G M1M2/d2 keeps the smaller object from 'flying off into space'; the objects are constantly 'falling' towards each other and the only thing that keeps one from hitting the other is that one or both objects are moving at a speed fast enough to escape it. The centripital force of that object is F =mV^2/r and the two forces have to balance for a successful orbit to occur. All the communication sattelites, ect.. Orbiting the earth have a certain decay factor in their orbit where they are slowing down and eventually will fall to the ground if not kept up to that certain velocity.
2. From my experiences in the game, when you approach the point where you told your ship to go it automatically reverses its engines to brake and slow down its speed. You simply control the velecity that you want the ship to travel at. And there is Drag in space. There are still gases and space dust, plasma in some parts even, Ions, ect... because space isnt a complete vaccuum as you suspect. Electromagnetic forces are stronger than Gravitational forces. Gravity couldnt keep dust and gasses and other things from stretching across the universe as it does. Its very very thin and far between, but these ships are travelling at 300m/sec and that is fast enough to create a 'drag' effect. So, There would be a 'terminal velocity' to every ship depending on size, ect...
3.If they really wanted to make this a 'real' universe they would have to make both time and distance relative to the observer. How do you think they could program that? 
"Shoot for The Moon... ...If You Miss, You're Bound For The Stars..." |
Geeknik
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Posted - 2004.04.16 20:42:00 -
[19]
Quote:
umm what satllie do we have in orbit that has an engine on it exactly?
All of the satellites in orbit around the earth have some sort of maneuvering thrusters installed on them.
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I have taken all knowledge to by my province. - Sir Francis Bacon
science & technology news
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