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Maelstrom better than new Apoc for sniping?

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Diomidis Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.14 22:18:00 - [31] It's all down to numbers: Maelstrom 8x 1400mm II + Tremor L + 3x Gyros II + uber all-V-char EFT - 380dps, 3707 Alpha , ROF 9.75 sec Apocalypse 8x Tachyons II + Aurora L + 3x Heat Sinks II + uber all-V-char EFT - 401dps, 2768 Alpha , ROF 6.88 sec --------- Fight Starts, both have locked at the same time and timer starts when they both pull the trigger --------- 0 seconds - Mael - 3707 dp dealed (1 volley) + 33.9% advantage Apoc - 2768 dp dealed (1 volley) 10 seconds - Mael - 7414 dp dealed (2 volleys) + 33.9% advantage Apoc - 5536 dp dealed (2 volleys) 13.8 seconds - Mael - 7414 dp dealed (2 volleys) Apoc - 8304 dp dealed (3 volleys) + 12.0% advantage 19.5 seconds - Mael - 11121 dp dealed (3 volleys) + 33.9% advantage Apoc - 8304 dp dealed (3 volleys) 20.64 seconds - Mael - 11121 dp dealed (3 volleys) + 4.4% advantage Apoc - 11072 dp dealed (4 volleys) So the huge 33+ % advantage in Alpha strike the Maelstrom gets, helps it surpass the Apocalypse in RL situations, where most sniping fleets aim for the fastest elimination of support ships or other Fleet-BSs, or at least keep up. Lets say that each Fleet-BS effectively gets 100K HP. You need a fleet of ~34% more Apocs than Maelstroms to get it from the first shot. When talking about roughly even opposing fleet numbers, the Mael gets a HUGE advantage, as it can Aplha strike - thus RULE OUT more ships per volley. DPS kick-in when it comes to relatively few BSs vs. a huge target, aka a POS or a Capital Ship. But then why should we talk about Apocs and Maels, when a Raven can deal more than 450dps further than 250km, outranging and out-damaging both? Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com
Xequecal GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.15 06:12:00 - [32] Edited by: Xequecal on 15/03/2008 06:13:05 Originally by: Kagura Nikon Another of your fail threads? Another? I don't post many threads. Quote: Do you realize that EM is usually the lowest resistance on almost ANY capital ship? And sub capital ships don use tanks, so the high em resist on armor is compensated on shields? Uh, what? The Amarr/Gallente armortanking capitals have high EM resist, the Caldari/Minmatar shieldtanking capitals have low EM resist. Quote: Maelstrom is not bad for sure, but you miss the point that apoc can be made a 200 km sniper and very effective without using rigs!! that means cheap. That makes it still superior to maelstrom. Locus Coordinator rigs cost less than 4m ISK. Quote: I, personally prefer the tempest because its more agile, and allows me to fit a 160 km sniper setup with a SHIELD DD tank, that still can warp out pretty fast. A lot of people will prefer megathron, because is stupidly easy to fit and can be setup to tank any DD with good armor and hull HP. Others will prefer Rokh, because can be made a so so sniper that can resist to 3 DDD blasts..... The Tempest is worse than the Maelstrom in every way except cost.
Goumindong Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.15 07:19:00 - [33] The only difference is that the optimal range rigs are bugged and will be fixed, even though the maelstrom is better, the apoc will still be overpowered once the optimal rig bug is fixed.
Lord WarATron Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.15 09:08:00 - [34] Originally by: Goumindong The only difference is that the optimal range rigs are bugged and will be fixed, even though the maelstrom is better, the apoc will still be overpowered once the optimal rig bug is fixed. Please explain how a apoc will be overpowered. It will be a decent sniper BS, that can only do 2 damagetypes which tend to be the highist on usual armour buffered ships and have a lot of cap usage, making it vurnerable to neut/nos, or even prolonged firing. It lacks the highist DPS on real targets, it lacks the highist Alpha. It has a higher DOT only over a geddon and Abaddon, but usually lower than all other races. But its a decent enough Sniper. It is now a Serious fleet ship rather than the lolapoc it used to be. Overpowered? Nope. Competitive? Yes. -- Billion Isk Mission
Ryysa Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.03.15 10:35:00 - [35] Originally by: Ariel Dawn Only in situations where EVE isn't lagging; very good in smaller gangs/fleets but in situations where it takes 5 minutes to switch targets due to lag, DPS is a fair bit more useful than alpha, and especially with Amarr BSes that dont have to reload. Yes let's balance EvE to lag. And no, DPS is still not the important factor, read Diomidis' post. It's about DoT that you do in the first seconds. Even if it takes you 5 minutes(lol, hi exaggerations) to switch targets, then unless your gang really can't follow orders, maelstrom's high alpha will still be of benefit, since after 3 volleys from multiple ships i'm quite sure the target will be dead. EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music
Kagura Nikon Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.03.15 11:12:00 - [36] Alpha Strike Effect Against smalle targets the 1400mm equiped ships have advantage, but not MUCH . Against capitals ships, amarr ships are vastly superior. Also Xequecal, I wil act as i beleived you didnt knew but. VApital ships use tripple hardener tanks! Not 2 EANM + DC. They usually have EM as LOWEST resist! ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Lt Angus the united Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.03.15 11:20:00 - [37] Quote: Do you realize that EM is usually the lowest resistance on almost ANY capital ship? And sub capital ships don use tanks, so the high em resist on armor is compensated on shields? Uh, what? The Amarr/Gallente armortanking capitals have high EM resist, the Caldari/Minmatar shieldtanking capitals have low EM resist. EM is lowest resist on moros and revilation armor, unless you fit an EM hardener Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers
Kagura Nikon Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.03.15 11:25:00 - [38] Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: Goumindong The only difference is that the optimal range rigs are bugged and will be fixed, even though the maelstrom is better, the apoc will still be overpowered once the optimal rig bug is fixed. Please explain how a apoc will be overpowered. It will be a decent sniper BS, that can only do 2 damagetypes which tend to be the highist on usual armour buffered ships and have a lot of cap usage, making it vurnerable to neut/nos, or even prolonged firing. It lacks the highist DPS on real targets, it lacks the highist Alpha. It has a higher DOT only over a geddon and Abaddon, but usually lower than all other races. But its a decent enough Sniper. It is now a Serious fleet ship rather than the lolapoc it used to be. Overpowered? Nope. Competitive? Yes. wowowow Apoc has the HIGHEST DOT on ANY sniper ! You can make an apoc that fires FOREVER 8 tachyons with > 190 km range, just need a few 3% hardwirings. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Gamesguy D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.15 11:47:00 - [39] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Kagura Nikon Well to be fair with him, when you are trying to kil capitals ships DPS IS > alpha. But then also DoT > DPS > Alpha Who is sniping capitals? Maybe better to use close range BS for that yes? just if you are a noob and want to be in range of dreadful officer web and scramblers that motherships use. Not to even start about the fighters. using snipers is the only reasonable way to fight large number of capital ships without having huge losses. if you attack a mothership with close range battleships, you will need 2 times the number of sniper. Because you will loose 70% of them to the motherships. The only close range battleship that should drop on capitals is an Apoc with 8 Heavy neuts. You're an idiot. How do you propose to keep your support alive if close range fitted BS with much much larger buffer tanks cannot? How in the hell are you going to tackle motherships? Not to mention snipers do what? A third the dps of close range BS? Little over half if you decide to warp to 40km and get use short range ammo. BS fleets never did very well against a large group of spider tanking carriers anyways. You'd have to have a truely ******** numerical advantage to win without any caps on your own side.
Diomidis Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.15 11:50:00 - [40] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: Goumindong The only difference is that the optimal range rigs are bugged and will be fixed, even though the maelstrom is better, the apoc will still be overpowered once the optimal rig bug is fixed. Please explain how a apoc will be overpowered. It will be a decent sniper BS, that can only do 2 damagetypes which tend to be the highist on usual armour buffered ships and have a lot of cap usage, making it vurnerable to neut/nos, or even prolonged firing. It lacks the highist DPS on real targets, it lacks the highist Alpha. It has a higher DOT only over a geddon and Abaddon, but usually lower than all other races. But its a decent enough Sniper. It is now a Serious fleet ship rather than the lolapoc it used to be. Overpowered? Nope. Competitive? Yes. wowowow Apoc has the HIGHEST DOT on ANY sniper ! You can make an apoc that fires FOREVER 8 tachyons with > 190 km range, just need a few 3% hardwirings. Still does better or even best make sth broken? Each and every specialized need was a ship that full-feels it a tad (or way) better...the new Apoc might have shifted some weight towards Amarrian Fleet-BSs, lets say that even made it the best sniper around - though it does have some downsides. But isn't there always a ship that shines a bit more in certain aspects? YES Is there the new Apoc absolutely unmatched in real battle sniping situations? Time will tell, but almost certainly NO. Is there the new Apoc the BEST all-around BS? Well, surely seams better than before, still NO. So, the most neglected BS in the game got some love...is it worth so much fuss? Com-on... U are posting and arguing over uber skilled, paper EFT warriors and wild guesses...through in some killboard FACTS of either the Apoc, the Mael or even the Rokh proving that they are un-balanced, and then make your points around "nerfs" an balance... Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com
arbalesttom Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.15 15:14:00 - [41] Screw the mael. The rokh becomes totally obsolete because of the apoc changes. Boost rokh/nerf apoc, i dont care.. *Sig* Originally by: Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners. Originally by: Mitnal Locked, one troll after another. Mitnal, Community Representative
FinrodFelagund Rome	Posted - 2008.03.15 15:26:00 - [42] Who the hell rigs their sniper ships. You either have to be filthy rich or stupid. Don't talk about balance with rigs on sniping ships... that beyond ********. Maelstrom has 154 optimal give or take 10 and 40 falloff. I think sniper apoc is around 190+10 or something like that. Alpha is more and more irrelavent IMHO and minmatar ships are worst in laggy situations due to ammo size. Apoc is a way better sniper then any mini ship, especially in the eve of today. Maybe when the server can handle a 20v20 engagement minmatar will start to shine. But it can't. (did i mention talking balance with rigs is stupid?)
Kagura Nikon Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.03.15 17:21:00 - [43] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Kagura Nikon Well to be fair with him, when you are trying to kil capitals ships DPS IS > alpha. But then also DoT > DPS > Alpha Who is sniping capitals? Maybe better to use close range BS for that yes? just if you are a noob and want to be in range of dreadful officer web and scramblers that motherships use. Not to even start about the fighters. using snipers is the only reasonable way to fight large number of capital ships without having huge losses. if you attack a mothership with close range battleships, you will need 2 times the number of sniper. Because you will loose 70% of them to the motherships. The only close range battleship that should drop on capitals is an Apoc with 8 Heavy neuts. You're an idiot. How do you propose to keep your support alive if close range fitted BS with much much larger buffer tanks cannot? How in the hell are you going to tackle motherships? Not to mention snipers do what? A third the dps of close range BS? Little over half if you decide to warp to 40km and get use short range ammo. BS fleets never did very well against a large group of spider tanking carriers anyways. You'd have to have a truely ******** numerical advantage to win without any caps on your own side. this idiot has been in 3 mothership kills, includign the first agaisnt MC, and were SNIEPRs tha did the hard work on ALL the times. Support can EASILy avoid fighters and heavy drones. no sir YOU ARE THE IDIOT! ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kagura Nikon Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.03.15 17:23:00 - [44] Originally by: FinrodFelagund Who the hell rigs their sniper ships. You either have to be filthy rich or stupid. Don't talk about balance with rigs on sniping ships... that beyond ********. Maelstrom has 154 optimal give or take 10 and 40 falloff. I think sniper apoc is around 190+10 or something like that. Alpha is more and more irrelavent IMHO and minmatar ships are worst in laggy situations due to ammo size. Apoc is a way better sniper then any mini ship, especially in the eve of today. Maybe when the server can handle a 20v20 engagement minmatar will start to shine. But it can't. (did i mention talking balance with rigs is stupid?) that is not true, several rigs are cheap enough to be worht puttign on snipers. An armageddon with 3 rigs for example is cheaper than an abaddon. so... why not rig it? If rigging gives you enough edge to make you survive mroe fights its well worth it. I for instance rig ALL my snipers. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kagura Nikon Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.03.15 17:24:00 - [45] Originally by: Diomidis Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: Goumindong The only difference is that the optimal range rigs are bugged and will be fixed, even though the maelstrom is better, the apoc will still be overpowered once the optimal rig bug is fixed. Please explain how a apoc will be overpowered. It will be a decent sniper BS, that can only do 2 damagetypes which tend to be the highist on usual armour buffered ships and have a lot of cap usage, making it vurnerable to neut/nos, or even prolonged firing. It lacks the highist DPS on real targets, it lacks the highist Alpha. It has a higher DOT only over a geddon and Abaddon, but usually lower than all other races. But its a decent enough Sniper. It is now a Serious fleet ship rather than the lolapoc it used to be. Overpowered? Nope. Competitive? Yes. wowowow Apoc has the HIGHEST DOT on ANY sniper ! You can make an apoc that fires FOREVER 8 tachyons with > 190 km range, just need a few 3% hardwirings. Still does better or even best make sth broken? Each and every specialized need was a ship that full-feels it a tad (or way) better...the new Apoc might have shifted some weight towards Amarrian Fleet-BSs, lets say that even made it the best sniper around - though it does have some downsides. But isn't there always a ship that shines a bit more in certain aspects? YES Is there the new Apoc absolutely unmatched in real battle sniping situations? Time will tell, but almost certainly NO. Is there the new Apoc the BEST all-around BS? Well, surely seams better than before, still NO. So, the most neglected BS in the game got some love...is it worth so much fuss? Com-on... U are posting and arguing over uber skilled, paper EFT warriors and wild guesses...through in some killboard FACTS of either the Apoc, the Mael or even the Rokh proving that they are un-balanced, and then make your points around "nerfs" an balance... I am not sayign APOC is the best, just coutnering that fake info that apoc has low DOT. If there is somethign good about it, its certainly its DOT. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Goumindong Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.15 20:22:00 - [46] Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: Goumindong The only difference is that the optimal range rigs are bugged and will be fixed, even though the maelstrom is better, the apoc will still be overpowered once the optimal rig bug is fixed. Please explain how a apoc will be overpowered. It will be a decent sniper BS, that can only do 2 damagetypes which tend to be the highist on usual armour buffered ships and have a lot of cap usage, making it vurnerable to neut/nos, or even prolonged firing. It lacks the highist DPS on real targets, it lacks the highist Alpha. It has a higher DOT only over a geddon and Abaddon, but usually lower than all other races. But its a decent enough Sniper. It is now a Serious fleet ship rather than the lolapoc it used to be. Overpowered? Nope. Competitive? Yes. All fleet battleships can only do two damage types. it will have as much or more range, as much or more EHP, more DPS, more tracking, more volley damage, and it will fire longer than the Megathron. Which becomes completely obsolete. It can fit such that the Rokh becomes obsolete for DPS except with faction ammo for tracking. It cant match the volley damage of the tempest or maelstrom, but at this point its not much of a big deal with so much more range.
Gamesguy D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.15 20:41:00 - [47] Originally by: Kagura Nikon this idiot has been in 3 mothership kills, includign the first agaisnt MC, and were SNIEPRs tha did the hard work on ALL the times. Support can EASILy avoid fighters and heavy drones. no sir YOU ARE THE IDIOT! How? Neut-> web -> 20 warrior IIs=dead dictor. Neut -> web -> 20 fighters = dead heavy dictor. So post a reason why support would do better than battleships.
Ghengis Gone Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.03.15 21:47:00 - [48] ITT we have people arguing over small differences in sniping ships. I see nothing game-breakingly overpowered here, except for optimal range rigs not stacking, that's pretty rofls. Originally by: Diomidis But then why should we talk about Apocs and Maels, when a Raven can deal more than 450dps further than 250km, outranging and out-damaging both? Man, so right. A raven even has 4 turrets, so haxxor. Whenver I see a raven on my overview I just ctr-q because what else am I gonna do vs that beast? Hehehehe
Mo Steel Sanguis vix Dignatio	Posted - 2008.03.15 22:42:00 - [49] Originally by: Ghengis Gone Man, so right. A raven even has 4 turrets, so haxxor. Whenver I see a raven on my overview I just ctr-q because what else am I gonna do vs that beast? Hehehehe Make a sandwich, come back, eat the sandwich, then warp off before the missiles hit? ;) ----- Want a sig made? Eve-Mail me, signatures made for 5 million isk each.
Baitrix Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.16 00:39:00 - [50] Originally by: Diomidis It's all down to numbers: Maelstrom 8x 1400mm II + Tremor L + 3x Gyros II + uber all-V-char EFT - 380dps, 3707 Alpha , ROF 9.75 sec Apocalypse 8x Tachyons II + Aurora L + 3x Heat Sinks II + uber all-V-char EFT - 401dps, 2768 Alpha , ROF 6.88 sec --------- Fight Starts, both have locked at the same time and timer starts when they both pull the trigger --------- 0 seconds - Mael - 3707 dp dealed (1 volley) + 33.9% advantage Apoc - 2768 dp dealed (1 volley) 10 seconds - Mael - 7414 dp dealed (2 volleys) + 33.9% advantage Apoc - 5536 dp dealed (2 volleys) 13.8 seconds - Mael - 7414 dp dealed (2 volleys) Apoc - 8304 dp dealed (3 volleys) + 12.0% advantage 19.5 seconds - Mael - 11121 dp dealed (3 volleys) + 33.9% advantage Apoc - 8304 dp dealed (3 volleys) 20.64 seconds - Mael - 11121 dp dealed (3 volleys) + 4.4% advantage Apoc - 11072 dp dealed (4 volleys) So the huge 33+ % advantage in Alpha strike the Maelstrom gets, helps it surpass the Apocalypse in RL situations, where most sniping fleets aim for the fastest elimination of support ships or other Fleet-BSs, or at least keep up. Lets say that each Fleet-BS effectively gets 100K HP. You need a fleet of ~34% more Apocs than Maelstroms to get it from the first shot. When talking about roughly even opposing fleet numbers, the Mael gets a HUGE advantage, as it can Aplha strike - thus RULE OUT more ships per volley. DPS kick-in when it comes to relatively few BSs vs. a huge target, aka a POS or a Capital Ship. But then why should we talk about Apocs and Maels, when a Raven can deal more than 450dps further than 250km, outranging and out-damaging both? how long can the apoc shoot? try cap....
Kagura Nikon Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.03.16 00:39:00 - [51] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Kagura Nikon this idiot has been in 3 mothership kills, includign the first agaisnt MC, and were SNIEPRs tha did the hard work on ALL the times. Support can EASILy avoid fighters and heavy drones. no sir YOU ARE THE IDIOT! How? Neut-> web -> 20 warrior IIs=dead dictor. Neut -> web -> 20 fighters = dead heavy dictor. So post a reason why support would do better than battleships. too much theory .. too few p[ractice. I've seen the desperate attempt of mother ships to get rid of the tacklign ships and is far far harder than what you make souns. Dictors can bubble move 3-4 sec to get out bubble and warp to safe range ( hint hint snipers at > 150 km.. rinse and repeat. Of course some will die. But you only need 1 of them to survive til very end. THe battleships you need most surviving till the very end. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Gamesguy D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.16 00:51:00 - [52] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Kagura Nikon this idiot has been in 3 mothership kills, includign the first agaisnt MC, and were SNIEPRs tha did the hard work on ALL the times. Support can EASILy avoid fighters and heavy drones. no sir YOU ARE THE IDIOT! How? Neut-> web -> 20 warrior IIs=dead dictor. Neut -> web -> 20 fighters = dead heavy dictor. So post a reason why support would do better than battleships. too much theory .. too few p[ractice. I've seen the desperate attempt of mother ships to get rid of the tacklign ships and is far far harder than what you make souns. Dictors can bubble move 3-4 sec to get out bubble and warp to safe range ( hint hint snipers at > 150 km.. rinse and repeat. Of course some will die. But you only need 1 of them to survive til very end. THe battleships you need most surviving till the very end. Except sniping BS simply doesn't do enough damage to break the circle jerk. Your average sniping bs does 300 dps, your average MS tanks 6k dps(3k/rep). So for each rep/RR on the carrier, it can tank 10 battleships. With a modest sized fleet of 20 carriers, you need 200+ snipers to break the tank, thats assuming they're just sitting there letting you shoot them with no support of their own.
Goumindong Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.16 01:25:00 - [53] If they have a bunch of caps on grid you are going to need caps of your own. But if they don't you would rather have snipers with as many dictors as you could get on hand. The reason you want snipers is because then you are less vulnerable to an opposing fleet coming to save the ship and you can leave your snipers. The dps that the snipers do is just fine.
Lalita Prestoc Maelstrom Crew	Posted - 2008.03.16 01:38:00 - [54] Originally by: Baitrix how long can the apoc shoot? try cap.... How long till arty has to reload and how long firing time does that give the Apoc while Maelstrom is doing nothing?
Zaran Darkstar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.16 02:15:00 - [55] I need to make a clearence. I didn;t post that Apoc fitting to suggest it is an overpowering BS. Far from that.I really think that the Amarr needed badly a more valid fleet BS and i am happy they got it. Anyone who crys and moans at the forums for "injustice" is just a selfish noob that is afraiding that the amarr will be no longer as nerfed as before and for once will be able to fight back. All in all the ships have some strong points and some weak points. Best fleet BS is still the Megathron for many many reasons so i suggest some people to stop whining. I think is fair for the Amarr to have a chance to fight back too. And i don't fly Amarr anyway so i don;t try to benefit myself in any way. Its is sad that i see some people unable to see beyond what fits them and be able to see the other race's rights for a more fair fight. _______________________________ Join the biggest Minmatar Corp! www.BrutorTribe.com (sooner or later everybody ends there :p )
Xequecal GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.16 03:23:00 - [56] Originally by: Gamesguy How? Neut-> web -> 20 warrior IIs=dead dictor. Neut -> web -> 20 fighters = dead heavy dictor. So post a reason why support would do better than battleships. In large battles it takes the server five minutes to accept any command. You're getting megabyte sized packets, you can't spidertank or kill dictors. Attacking a dictor with 20 Warrior IIs will take 15 minutes, 5 to recall your fighters, 5 to launch new drones, and 5 more to tell them to attack something. You're far better off leaving your fighters out to autotarget things themselves as nobody can rep or warp within any reasonable timeframe, and nobody can target them.
Borasao Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.16 04:07:00 - [57] Originally by: Diomidis It's all down to numbers: What about after 100s? 200s?
Gamesguy D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.16 04:44:00 - [58] Originally by: Xequecal Originally by: Gamesguy How? Neut-> web -> 20 warrior IIs=dead dictor. Neut -> web -> 20 fighters = dead heavy dictor. So post a reason why support would do better than battleships. In large battles it takes the server five minutes to accept any command. You're getting megabyte sized packets, you can't spidertank or kill dictors. Attacking a dictor with 20 Warrior IIs will take 15 minutes, 5 to recall your fighters, 5 to launch new drones, and 5 more to tell them to attack something. You're far better off leaving your fighters out to autotarget things themselves as nobody can rep or warp within any reasonable timeframe, and nobody can target them. If the game is so laggy that you cant even spider tank, then fighter auto-agro will ensure the battleship fleet dies, and logoffski means you will never ever lose a capital.
deadmeet Star Blossom	Posted - 2008.03.16 09:48:00 - [59] Learn to be intelligent before posting that kind of post.... You compare tiers 2 and tiers 3 ships.... this kind of post begin to be really boring and polluate the forum that already have a poor search engine... Hey ! The onyx is better than the rifter for PVP.....
Goumindong Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.16 10:01:00 - [60] allow me to quote the developers when it comes to tiers. "Different, not better"

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