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Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2008.03.17 22:09:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Shadarle
You seem to be missing the point that cost means nothing in the end, value is what is important. It doesn't matter if someone's costs are less, once you have components the price you payed for them is meaningless, all that matters is the value of those minerals. It doesn't matter if you payed .01 isk per trit or 100 isk per trit, the trit still has the same actual value in the marketplace. The goal is to make the most money possible. If you can make more money selling the trit than you can using the trit to make other objects, then you should sell the trit. Thus, if you manufacture items for a loss you are losing out on profit.
Now, there may be cases where you intentionally lose out for some reason... but these are few and far between for most people.
Ok, I don't have a real problem with this. In my defense, the other posters were using "cost" instead of "value".
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Daeva Vios
New Eden Credit Bureau
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Posted - 2008.03.17 22:16:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Sale gueule
Originally by: Tasko Pal
The original point is that not everyone's cost is the same. Stupidity plays a part (eg, the "mining ore is free" people). But it's also stupid to claim that someone supplying a major power in one of the 0.0 wars, a conglomerate of low sec moon mining networks, or someone who only logs in for a few minutes a day have the same costs and the same economic access to the Jita market as Sale gueule, manufacturer extraordinare in The Forge. That's what I see being claimed in this thread. To make my point more clear, it's not just costs that can differ. Traders are sufficiently different, and the markets sufficiently inefficient, that optimal trading strategies can be different.
I think that's one of the fundamental problems with Sale gueule's original complaint. What he thinks is the best strategy, isn't the best strategy for his competitors.
Sorry to have said cost, while it's value the correct word. But if you had read what i said with paying attention you know what i was meaning
Just please re-read my last "big" post. The manufaturing cost between you and me is different, but the value of the system is the same for everyone, and it is what it has to be taken into account, as Shadarle explained a thousand times better than me
In fact, i was seeing the system just with a manufacturing/selling point of view, without taking into account the trading factor
That's why i was not understanding heavy undercutters
I m sure you now understand why i was saying that cost is the same for everyone (at least for T2 with fixed ME BPc) even if it is badly said
You still don't seem to be getting it.
If the price has dropped below manufacturing value, demand is not high enough to excuse continued production or the current supply is too great to support demand.
Find.Another.Product.
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Lex Tael
Advanced Defences Research
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.03.18 08:12:00 -
[63]
I have read this thread and now I keep wondering weather MD has changed and now people actually give valuable pieces of advise here (instead of "we are traders and we aren't telling you s***") or it is that I have learned enough myself to be able to understand the information that was always there.
I somehow think it's a bit of the former and more of the latter.
To all readers who think there is no information in this thread:
PvP can't be learned in any other way but doing it yourself and making mistakes and learning from them. Market PvP is not different. Reading helps too, but only if it is supported by practice. It can take up to several months of trading to understand how markets in EVE work, there is no other way I know of.
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Shinhan
Phoenix Knights
Dark Nebula Galactic Empire
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Posted - 2008.03.18 09:43:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Lex Tael
I have read this thread and now I keep wondering weather MD has changed and now people actually give valuable pieces of advise here ...
Sorry, this is one of my pet peeves.
Advise - verb
Advice - noun
Also, Weather MD? Since when do we discuss meteorological markets here?
--
Selling apples, 1 signature each.
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Alak D'bor
Viper Squad
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.18 10:17:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Letrange
Just a quick aside to the people bemoaning "they put it up under cost". Please note that just because it's under cost for YOU, does not necessarily mean it's under cost for THEM.
Cool. I'll drain their cheap supply until the last day of Eve \o/. If they've found a sucker \o/ for them. If they don't properly exploit it, \o/ for me. All I'm hearing is \o/ \o/ except for that volume sucker at the bottom of the food chain.
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Alak D'bor
Viper Squad
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.18 10:21:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Lex Tael
I have read this thread and now I keep wondering weather MD has changed and now people actually give valuable pieces of advise here (instead of "we are traders and we aren't telling you s***")
Well I'll tell you every last one of my secrets over time. I want to tell you 1) how I'm going to beat you and then 2) I told you so. It comes from pvpers who have their setups posted on a hunnerd killboards but still gank you 1-1. THAT is market pvp, where your setup is public record and you still win.
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Alex Verrel
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.18 11:03:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Alak D'bor
...
Two things are possible, either you didn't get my point or I don't get yours.
Upd: what exactly are the "hun-nerd killboards"?
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Lex Tael
Advanced Defences Research
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.03.18 11:21:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Alak D'bor
...
Two things are possible, either you didn't get my point or I don't get yours.
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Sale gueule
Meleks Jennet
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Posted - 2008.03.18 11:56:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Daeva Vios
Edited by: Daeva Vios on 17/03/2008 22:17:24
If the price has dropped below manufacturing value, demand is not high enough to excuse continued production or the current supply is too great to support demand. That or someone is pulling a maneuver for their own reasons, which could be completely valid.
In any event, this market seems to be unsuited for your purposes, and complaining about it here has yielded the following answer in several different forms:
Find.Another.Product.
I think you don't get it, i never said price was under manufacturing cost, tell me where it has been said that.
It has never been
Please pay a little more attention next time
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Danari
Viper Squad
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.18 23:11:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Alex Verrel
Edited by: Alex Verrel on 18/03/2008 11:24:45
Upd: what exactly are the "hun-nerd killboards"?
Edit: Wrong character.
lol I'm from America. It's how we pronounce the numeral 100, and my spelling tends to be fonetic.
Alak = Danari to avoid any confusion.
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Hameska
LanNeuX Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.18 23:30:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Danari
Originally by: Alex Verrel
Edited by: Alex Verrel on 18/03/2008 11:24:45
Upd: what exactly are the "hun-nerd killboards"?
Edit: Wrong character.
lol I'm from America. It's how we pronounce the numeral 100, and my spelling tends to be fonetic.
Alak = Danari to avoid any confusion.
To clarify, that's how they pronounce it down south in America. 
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Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.03.19 10:19:00 -
[72]
If I put a something on the market significantly under the competition, there's a good chance said competition will buy my stuff to resell it rather than undercutting me.
When I don't have time to play the undercutting game, it's the logical thing to do, and I don't care what the market will be like after I'm done.
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Beldaws
Me and My Alts
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Posted - 2008.03.19 12:15:00 -
[73]
It really depends on what someone considers a good profit.
Even at 3 million p/u that's a profit of 200% over build cost. I'd be happy with that any day of the week. 300% profit would be nice but 200% is more than acceptable too.
The Modulated Deep Core Strip Miner is a very slow selling item. I haven't produced any from my bpo in ages. I'm still trying to slowly sell the inventory that I have. I'm not currently selling in Jita, but I might have to move some there now. 
Originally by: Sale gueule
The best example i can give is the selling orders of Modulated deep core strip miners in Jita.
In one day, because of 2 or 3 people, the selling prices went from 3.9m to 3.0m
People who needs those kind of mods will pay it even 4.7m/unit (sold a bucnh of them at this price few weeks ago)
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Ava Santiago
AAC
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Posted - 2008.03.20 00:18:00 -
[74]
Vertical Integration and profit - a small note:
It is possible to make more money/time expended and undercut the base manufacturing cost in a high volume market like Jita. In other words, I can make more money for the amount of time I spend and gain an effective monopoly on a high turnover good if I can arbitrage away a small opportunity cost loss through effective inter-market actions.
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