| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Sale gueule
Meleks Jennet
   |
Posted - 2008.03.15 14:57:00 -
[1]
It's a call to all manufacturers.
It is totally useless to behead, decapitate prices just because you are hurry or i don t know what, because there will always be people who will follow your little prices, it changes nothing, and you penalize all other manufacturers
The best example i can give is the selling orders of Modulated deep core strip miners in Jita.
In one day, because of 2 or 3 people, the selling prices went from 3.9m to 3.0m
People who needs those kind of mods will pay it even 4.7m/unit (sold a bucnh of them at this price few weeks ago)
I know a little about financial-economics law, i know the price will go down if offer is superior to demand, but why making the price go down of 100.000 isk in one shot instead of 1 isk. It changes nothing, you ll always be best price if you are the last one to modify your order.
As i just said, doing that will not penalize all manufacturers, but most of all : YOU also
A lot of you made same thing for modulated strip miners ll, before trinity they were sold at 6m/unit (because of random bpc obtained mst of all). You decapitated the price without real reason to now 3.5m average, just because you modified them with 100.000 (even more) lower price instead of 1 isk
And now the price is obviously fixed at 3.5 while it could still be now near the 5m
So be wise please
Thanks
|
Athre
The HIgher Standard
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 15:30:00 -
[2]
Unfortunately the people who do this do not read MD
|
Chian XinLian
Darwin's Contraptions
Imperial Research
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 15:48:00 -
[3]
Second. Why should they care?
|
Wadaya
Trailerpark Industries
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 15:50:00 -
[4]
Well, it sounds like you are putting all your eggs in one basket. Which of course is a no no.
You have several options:
1)Whine
2)Buy out the entire stock and relist
3)Sell elsewhere
Wad
|
Sale gueule
Meleks Jennet
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 15:54:00 -
[5]
No no hehe i m not putting all my eggs on same basket, that s one of the first thing they teach you on economic lessons :)
But
Obviously they should care, they sell their thing 1m/unit less than what it should be if they had a normal behaviour
Anyway
It s just a behaviour i don t understand
|
Robacz
Essence Trade
Essence Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 15:55:00 -
[6]
Try to contact them and create 0.01 cutting cartel with them, sometimes it works. 
I have portfolio full of items which would sell at same rate for a lot higher price, but if they are happy with current profits (often becouse they don't count with real price of minerals/components), there is nothing you can do.
|
Welshdog
Dark Tornado
Synchr0nicity
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 16:08:00 -
[7]
If you undercut someone by 1 isk, then when they log on 10 minutes later they're going to undercut you back and you'll be right back where you started, making no profit.
If you undercut by 100,000 or 1 million then there's a chance people won't undercut you, as doing so would take a significant chunk out of their profits. They might prefer to wait it out, let you sell your stuff then sell theirs at the higher price. You might destroy the margins on an item like this, but it will only be temporary and can force people with the time to sit there undercutting all day out of your market so you can go back to making profit a few days later.
Large undercuts aren't always the best choice, but they're a long way from being "totally useless".
|
Robacz
Essence Trade
Essence Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 16:21:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Robacz on 15/03/2008 16:22:15
 Originally by: Welshdog
If you undercut by 100,000 or 1 million then there's a chance people won't undercut you, as doing so would take a significant chunk out of their profits. They might prefer to wait it out, let you sell your stuff then sell theirs at the higher price. You might destroy the margins on an item like this, but it will only be temporary and can force people with the time to sit there undercutting all day out of your market so you can go back to making profit a few days later.
This sometimes works with limited supply items, but almost never with unlimited supply items, yet people do it again and again, even though they see it has zero effect. Besides, when someone leaves the market becouse of low price, he will come back as soon as the price recovers.
Anyways, it is pointless to cry about this, just cut them back. 
|
Sale gueule
Meleks Jennet
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 16:30:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Welshdog
If you undercut someone by 1 isk, then when they log on 10 minutes later they're going to undercut you back and you'll be right back where you started, making no profit.
If you undercut by 100,000 or 1 million then there's a chance people won't undercut you, as doing so would take a significant chunk out of their profits. They might prefer to wait it out, let you sell your stuff then sell theirs at the higher price. You might destroy the margins on an item like this, but it will only be temporary and can force people with the time to sit there undercutting all day out of your market so you can go back to making profit a few days later.
Large undercuts aren't always the best choice, but they're a long way from being "totally useless".
Roba is right
even when you undercut by 100.000, people will follow if htere s still profit, and they will modify it anyway each 5 mins
And i can tell you, believe me, you do not make 0 profit if everyone change his order of 1 isk because you are never the "best price", you are, even if it is for less than 4 minutes you will still sell stuff, and even faster than if you go sell otherwhere than Jita
If you pass full 30 mins of your day in jita, you can sell about 50 units of one order (just multiply 50 by the different orders you have), without problem just by changing 1 by 1
|
Welshdog
Dark Tornado
Synchr0nicity
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 17:26:00 -
[10]
On an unlimted supply item though, wouldn't the negative effects of someone undercutting by large amounts be a lot less painful to other people trying to sell stuff? If supply adjusted to meet demand, with more manufacturers etc. stepping in if prices increased (is that what you mean by unlimited supply, correct me if not), then if someone pushed prices lower by a significant amount, below the standard price for that item, then could you not just wait for prices to return to that level or buy up the undercutter's items and relist them at a higher price?
Might be looking at this the wrong way but if I wanted to sell a lot of stuff quickly on the market without being on hand to check orders (e.g somebody bringing goods to a market hub from 0.0 or some other remote location) then pricing it a little way below sell orders so that people would be encouraged to buy and relist the whole lot would seem like a good way to do it.
I'd agree with you though that in a crowded hub, for every trader who you discourage from undercutting you with large, regular cuts there are going to be several more happy to accept smaller margins, losing you any advantage you might have had.
|
Robacz
Essence Trade
Essence Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 18:15:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Robacz on 15/03/2008 18:16:18
Originally by: Welshdog
On an unlimted supply item though, wouldn't the negative effects of someone undercutting by large amounts be a lot less painful to other people trying to sell stuff? If supply adjusted to meet demand, with more manufacturers etc. stepping in if prices increased (is that what you mean by unlimited supply, correct me if not), then if someone pushed prices lower by a significant amount, below the standard price for that item, then could you not just wait for prices to return to that level or buy up the undercutter's items and relist them at a higher price?
Might be looking at this the wrong way but if I wanted to sell a lot of stuff quickly on the market without being on hand to check orders (e.g somebody bringing goods to a market hub from 0.0 or some other remote location) then pricing it a little way below sell orders so that people would be encouraged to buy and relist the whole lot would seem like a good way to do it.
I'd agree with you though that in a crowded hub, for every trader who you discourage from undercutting you with large, regular cuts there are going to be several more happy to accept smaller margins, losing you any advantage you might have had.
You are right, but you must be able to correctly set your price - it must be low enough so it is worth of risk for someone to buy it all and that is usually not the case (typically price is crashed by people who undercut by multiple large steps, but not large enough to be worth of buyout).
|
Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 18:19:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sale gueule
Roba is right
even when you undercut by 100.000, people will follow if htere s still profit, and they will modify it anyway each 5 mins
And i can tell you, believe me, you do not make 0 profit if everyone change his order of 1 isk because you are never the "best price", you are, even if it is for less than 4 minutes you will still sell stuff, and even faster than if you go sell otherwhere than Jita
If you pass full 30 mins of your day in jita, you can sell about 50 units of one order (just multiply 50 by the different orders you have), without problem just by changing 1 by 1
If there is still profit
Let's keep that phrase in mind. If my costs are lower than yours because I made it from cheap ingredients while you're station trading in Jita, then yes, I can drop the price enough that you'll bail out because there's insufficient profit for you.
|
Robacz
Essence Trade
Essence Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 18:23:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tasko Pal
Let's keep that phrase in mind. If my costs are lower than yours because I made it from cheap ingredients while you're station trading in Jita, then yes, I can drop the price enough that you'll bail out because there's insufficient profit for you.
Value of ingredients is same for everyone though, it is defined by market price of these ingredients.
|
cosmoray
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 18:26:00 -
[14]
I love people who come here and whine.
Adapt or die
|
Treelox
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 18:29:00 -
[15]
i mined it...
i built it...
i priced it...
im broke....
--
|
Minerva Vulcan
The Nexus Foundation
Endless Horizon
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 18:48:00 -
[16]
Yay massacres!
|
Danari
Viper Squad
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 19:45:00 -
[17]
Hint: There's a surplus of producers.
|
Barbicane
TGUN Industries
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 20:01:00 -
[18]
We've had this discussion before but it doesn't hurt to repeat it...
I update my prices 1-2 times per day. I usually play the 0.01 isk game, but if I find that my orders get no market exposure due to someone consistently undercutting me within 20 minutes, then I will stop playing games and start doing some heavy undercutting (Think about it: what do I have to lose? I'm not selling anything anyway). Most of the time this eventually results in the competitor giving up and moving to a different market.
In some cases the competitor sticks around. Fine. At least he's not making much money anymore. That's the price he has to pay for not being willing to share the market with me. Now it's just a matter of who is the most pig-headed 
@OP: The best thing to do is to try to get to know your opponents. Try cutting the price by a lot and see how they respond. Try buying them out and see how quickly they come back. It's a war and you have to learn to fight it, or perish.
All it takes to ruin the profit margin of an item is two traders who both want the market all for themselves.
|
Stakhanov
Metafarmers
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 20:02:00 -
[19]
ISK farmers want to convert their minerals into RL money as fast as possible , so they'll keep selling BS below base price. They do not care about the Eve economy in the slightest.
If you want to do something about it , send ISK to my corp or the UCAM alliance to help us kill them faster. The less farmers there are , the more profit you can make. Win/win !
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
Locked
I don't believe that a link to a RickRoll video constitutes proof, even in CAOD.
|
cosmoray
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 20:38:00 -
[20]
To be honest I love to destroy markets.
If I see an opportunity to make some quick ISK for little effort I do so.
I usually sell quickly at a large amount under the current sell price.
I do this to make a quick profit. I couldn't care less how others horde or update their prices.
It is even sweeter, when people come here and moan about it.
|
Robacz
Essence Trade
Essence Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 20:41:00 -
[21]
Originally by: cosmoray
To be honest I love to destroy markets.
If I see an opportunity to make some quick ISK for little effort I do so.
I usually sell quickly at a large amount under the current sell price.
I do this to make a quick profit. I couldn't care less how others horde or update their prices.
It is even sweeter, when people come here and moan about it.
Well if it works and you sell quickly, then its fine. If 5 other sellers cut you in 5 minuters, then it is wasted profit.
|
Shadarle
LI0NS Industries
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 20:56:00 -
[22]
I have the perfect solution to this problem.
The OP should stop producing completely and stop trading completely. That way prices won't drop as fast.
I can't believe people continue to rehash this same argument over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. I left out most of the overs needed to fully illustrate my point, but I'm sure you get the point.
I will price however I want, you price however you want. If I am pricing stuff too low then buy me out. If I am pricing too high then undercut me. If you want to whine then just have the balls to title your post "I'm whining, whine whine whine".
|
Manentia
manic-recession
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 21:16:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Shadarle
I have the perfect solution to this problem.
The OP should stop producing completely and stop trading completely. That way prices won't drop as fast.
I can't believe people continue to rehash this same argument over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. I left out most of the overs needed to fully illustrate my point, but I'm sure you get the point.
I will price however I want, you price however you want. If I am pricing stuff too low then buy me out. If I am pricing too high then undercut me. If you want to whine then just have the balls to title your post "I'm whining, whine whine whine".
Amen!
|
Jamie Freely
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 21:37:00 -
[24]
Originally by: cosmoray
I love people who come here and whine.
Adapt or die
This
I was making stuff, now I'm buying and refining stuff, soon I will be back to making stuff.
Or I will just play the game to have some fun.
|
Grozen
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
Sons of Tangra
|
Posted - 2008.03.16 09:38:00 -
[25]
if all others lose cash and i gain its fine.go die i will dance on your empty wallet.
knowledge is power |
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
|
Posted - 2008.03.16 10:51:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 16/03/2008 10:53:08
I could rant and rave about this for hours on end but hey, bugger it, I'm just going to say what I'm doing now and why.
For a while, I tried my hand at the 0.01 isk undercutting. It reduced my sales. This is from being a manufacturer who can only afford 10-15 minutes a day to adjust prices, and an hour a week to refit factories.
So bugger it, I'm chopping my prices by the lowest hundred, or if I'm really frustrated with the last 100 items of a 20,000 unit order, I'll drop it by 400 or so.
Am I hurting my own profits? Sure. But then it's your own ******** fault if you then decide "Ooooh, he's been a dip-**** and dropped his prices, god he's an idiot, now i have to undercut him by 0.01 isk again"
No, seriously, I can guarantee I drop my prices by 200 isk (average sale between 15-40k isk), I come back within 24 hours and more than half the market has undercut me.
So yeah, if you think it's "totally useless" to behead profits like that, why the heck do you proceed to follow suit and drop prices? I'm not forcing you to. FYI this isn't directly pointed at you Sale, but the people who participate in my market with a similar attitude. But regardless, you're echoing a silly belief.
"So be wise please"? You'd be wise not to undercut someone who "beheads prices".
Eh,, ventage,,,
EDIT: For the record, it's amazing how many people (with average volumes in my market being 5k up to 40k) will undercut someone who's crashed the market price with a whopping 100 units 
Improve Market Competition! |
Steve Celeste
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.03.16 11:04:00 -
[27]
Undercutting whine thread #4185
|
Sale gueule
Meleks Jennet
|
Posted - 2008.03.16 18:37:00 -
[28]
Seems a lot of you really do not understand
FIRST :
There s no much quicker profit, people will undercut anyway, if there s still profit
SECOND :
Manufacturing price is the same for everyone, if you buy or if you mine
Because it changes nothing to manufacture with your minerals (or components), than with other ones, just because YOUR mineral (or component) has exactly the same market value
THIRD :
I suppose that all of us have the same manufacturing skills (all to lvl 5)
CONLCUSION :
a) Profit is exaclty the same for everyone, in this game, with this market, there are no : cheapest way of manufacturing
b) It is stupid to undercut heavily because you think : i manufacutre cheapest => i sell cheapest. If you do profit with your stupid undercutted, ALL OF US do exactly the same profit
c) So there will still be people who will undercut you every 5 minutes
So think a little before saying stupid things
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
|
Posted - 2008.03.16 19:00:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Shadarle
I can't believe people continue to rehash this same argument over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. I left out most of the overs needed to fully illustrate my point, but I'm sure you get the point.
I see nothing surprising about it whatsoever. It's not (usually) the same people time and time again - it's just new ones that keep turning up.
My research services
Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Sale gueule
Meleks Jennet
|
Posted - 2008.03.16 20:17:00 -
[30]
First i'd like to say :
A bunch of you are just agressive and pretentious, you should revise your social behaviour
And i really spit on you
It's not because you are below a screen than that you can talk to other people like that
Second :
It's not whining, it's just trying to call the manufacturers to do not do that just for the profit of all manufacturers, undercutter profit also because they do not gain a lot by doing that, and damage the market. A market where they will probably turn back and where they will not have naymore the possibility to the good profit as before
So **** yourself. I m tired of people like you who don't know anymore how to speak to people. You make the forum experience a bad thing
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |