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Thorek Ironbrow Ironbrow Industries Co. Soldiers of the Forgotten Abyss	Posted - 2008.03.15 18:19:00 - [1] Tier 2 Destroyers: Bigger damage/optimal bonus per level 2 extra mid slots 2 extra low slots Discuss [I'm not even sure if this is allowed, but oh well, seemed an interesting topic. Maybe Tier 3 Battlecruisers aswell?] _____________________________ "So what do you need, besides a miracle?" "Guns... Lots of guns"
FrostedJin Perkone	Posted - 2008.03.15 18:25:00 - [2] Interdictors? _______________ Hope is the first step on the road to dissapointment.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.15 18:30:00 - [3] He said Tier, not tech. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Thorek Ironbrow Ironbrow Industries Co. Soldiers of the Forgotten Abyss	Posted - 2008.03.15 18:37:00 - [4] Originally by: Malcanis He said Tier, not tech. Thankyou _____________________________ "So what do you need, besides a miracle?" "Guns... Lots of guns"
Bronson Hughes Knights of the Wild Visions of Warfare	Posted - 2008.03.15 20:04:00 - [5] Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 15/03/2008 20:04:43 Originally by: Thorek Ironbrow Tier 2 Destroyers: Bigger damage/optimal bonus per level 2 extra mid slots 2 extra low slots Personally, I would add one mid or low slot to existing destroyers and then one more to the Tier 2 hulls. Going up one Tier and gaining 4 slots is way too powerful. But I wouldn't make them all gun snipers like the Tier 1 hulls, I'd make them have more of the racial flavor: missiles for Caldari, drones or blasters for Gallente, lasers and projectiles/missiles for Amarr and Minmatar. They would serve the same purpose as Tier 1 destroyers (i.e. long range anti-frigate platform), but with a tad more variety. And some more oomph. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
sov68n True Foundation	Posted - 2008.03.15 20:27:00 - [6] Well a Tier 2 Dessie shouldn't just be a bigger badder gunship. As with all ship classes, the different tiers have different roles and abilities. For example, Caldari Tier 1 BS, the Scorpion, is an ECM ship. The Caldari Tier 2 BS, the Raven, is a Heavy Missile Boat, and the Caldari Tier 3 BS, the Rokh, is a Heavy Hybrid Turret Boat. What I would suggest for Tier 2 Destroyers, is perhaps something that instead of being specialized to shoot frigates (as normal dessies are), they can take on cruisers, but will have a hard time tracking Frigates. They'll still be thin as paper, but will have a better chance at doing damage to larger ships. Maybe this: The Liberator Class Destroyer (Caldari Tier 2) DESCRIPTION After realizing the need for a fast cheap ship capable of taking down the cruiser class vessels of Guristas Pirates, The Caldari navy released the design specs for the 'Liberator' destroyer. 10% bonus to Standard Missile Damage per level Role Penalty: -25% to Missile Explosion velocity FITTING High Slots: 6 Medium Slots: 5 Low Slots: 2 -Launcher Hardpoints: 6 -Turret Hardpoints: 3 Upgrade Hardpoints: 3 Powergrid Output: 67Mw CPU Output: 240tf Calibration: 300 ATTRIBUTES (Standard Resists) SHIELD Shield Capacity: 821 Shield Recharge Time: 650.00sec ARMOR Armor Hitpoints: 714 STRUCTURE Max Velocity: 185m/s Drone Capacity: 0m3 Cargo Capacity: 550m3 Mass: 2100000kg Volume: 53,000m3 (5,100m3 packaged) CAPACITOR Capacitor Capacity: 650 Recharge Time: 350sec TARGETING Maximum Targeting Range: 45km Gravimetric Sensor Strength: 14 Signature Radius: 100m Scan Resolution: 325mm MISC Inertia Modifier: 3.7 Magpulse Propulsion Strength: 5.5 Tech Level: 1 critique the hell out of that please
Nian Banks Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2008.03.15 21:23:00 - [7] I personally hope for tier2 destroyers that are destroyer equivalents of the tier1 battlecruisers. may sound lame but that's what I would like. Perhaps even with a logistics role bonus,.. remote shield/armor/cap based on race.
Thorek Ironbrow Ironbrow Industries Co. Soldiers of the Forgotten Abyss	Posted - 2008.03.15 23:20:00 - [8] Originally by: Bronson Hughes Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 15/03/2008 20:04:43 Originally by: Thorek Ironbrow Tier 2 Destroyers: Bigger damage/optimal bonus per level 2 extra mid slots 2 extra low slots Personally, I would add one mid or low slot to existing destroyers and then one more to the Tier 2 hulls. Going up one Tier and gaining 4 slots is way too powerful. But I wouldn't make them all gun snipers like the Tier 1 hulls, I'd make them have more of the racial flavor: missiles for Caldari, drones or blasters for Gallente, lasers and projectiles/missiles for Amarr and Minmatar. They would serve the same purpose as Tier 1 destroyers (i.e. long range anti-frigate platform), but with a tad more variety. And some more oomph. I like that idea. _____________________________ "So what do you need, besides a miracle?" "Guns... Lots of guns"
Thorek Ironbrow Ironbrow Industries Co. Soldiers of the Forgotten Abyss	Posted - 2008.03.15 23:22:00 - [9] Edited by: Thorek Ironbrow on 15/03/2008 23:26:17 Originally by: sov68n Well a Tier 2 Dessie shouldn't just be a bigger badder gunship. As with all ship classes, the different tiers have different roles and abilities. For example, Caldari Tier 1 BS, the Scorpion, is an ECM ship. The Caldari Tier 2 BS, the Raven, is a Heavy Missile Boat, and the Caldari Tier 3 BS, the Rokh, is a Heavy Hybrid Turret Boat. What I would suggest for Tier 2 Destroyers, is perhaps something that instead of being specialized to shoot frigates (as normal dessies are), they can take on cruisers, but will have a hard time tracking Frigates. They'll still be thin as paper, but will have a better chance at doing damage to larger ships. Maybe this: The Liberator Class Destroyer (Caldari Tier 2) DESCRIPTION After realizing the need for a fast cheap ship capable of taking down the cruiser class vessels of Guristas Pirates, The Caldari navy released the design specs for the 'Liberator' destroyer. 10% bonus to Standard Missile Damage per level Role Penalty: -25% to Missile Explosion velocity FITTING High Slots: 6 Medium Slots: 5 Low Slots: 2 -Launcher Hardpoints: 6 -Turret Hardpoints: 3 Upgrade Hardpoints: 3 Powergrid Output: 67Mw CPU Output: 240tf Calibration: 300 ATTRIBUTES (Standard Resists) SHIELD Shield Capacity: 821 Shield Recharge Time: 650.00sec ARMOR Armor Hitpoints: 714 STRUCTURE Max Velocity: 185m/s Drone Capacity: 0m3 Cargo Capacity: 550m3 Mass: 2100000kg Volume: 53,000m3 (5,100m3 packaged) CAPACITOR Capacitor Capacity: 650 Recharge Time: 350sec TARGETING Maximum Targeting Range: 45km Gravimetric Sensor Strength: 14 Signature Radius: 100m Scan Resolution: 325mm MISC Inertia Modifier: 3.7 Magpulse Propulsion Strength: 5.5 Tech Level: 1 critique the hell out of that please I also like that idea, since it's pretty similar. Another thing you could do, to keep inline with the Caldari naming system, is to name it after a bird. I like the sound of a "Gull". Maybe Spacegull instead of a seagull really. _____________________________ "So what do you need, besides a miracle?" "Guns... Lots of guns"
Charlie Chaplin Williams Aerospace	Posted - 2008.03.15 23:30:00 - [10] How about making it similar to a Stealth Bomber, that is it can fit oversized guns.

Thorek Ironbrow Ironbrow Industries Co. Soldiers of the Forgotten Abyss	Posted - 2008.03.15 23:37:00 - [11] Originally by: Charlie Chaplin How about making it similar to a Stealth Bomber, that is it can fit oversized guns. I don't know if that's sarcastic or not, but I'm assuming it's not. I think it would look a bit odd, because the Tier 2 Destroyer is going to be almost the same size as a Tier one, maybe a big bigger, but not as big as a Cruiser. So fitting medium guns on it would look willy wee todd did. _____________________________ "So what do you need, besides a miracle?" "Guns... Lots of guns"
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.15 23:41:00 - [12] Interesting concept but for a smaller ship to be designed to take on a large, it has to be able to specifically defend against the larger ship's attack. As far as "taking on guristas pirates" that ship would be better served with something like "Role bonus: 10% bonus per level to defender missile RoF, Velocity and damage" with 8 high slots and the grid/CPU to fit 8 rocket launchers. Merely doing the equivalent of 1.5x Kestrel DPS with far less tank than even a Caracal doesn't seem to make it very threatening. (Disclaimer: requires defender missiles to actually work) Giving the other tier 2 something really distinctive appeals to me. What about a 25%/lvl boost to smart bomb radius for the Amarr? Give the Gallante one a 30m^3 drone bay and 10-15%/lvl boost to drone speed. I can't think of anything for the Minmatar one offhand. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.15 23:45:00 - [13] Originally by: Charlie Chaplin How about making it similar to a Stealth Bomber, that is it can fit oversized guns. That would be an interesting idea for the T2 version, but you'd have to limit it to cruiser-size weapons are the stealthbombers would be obseleted overnight. But a surprise uncloaking 3x damage-bonused 200mm gank could ruin many an inty pilot's day... or 4x range-bonused to fit in with the destroyer ethos better. yeah, I quite like that idea. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Thorek Ironbrow Ironbrow Industries Co. Soldiers of the Forgotten Abyss	Posted - 2008.03.15 23:45:00 - [14] Probably something like 5% speed and 5% Projectile RoF per level. And no RoF penalty like on the Thrasher. _____________________________ "So what do you need, besides a miracle?" "Guns... Lots of guns"
Thorek Ironbrow Ironbrow Industries Co. Soldiers of the Forgotten Abyss	Posted - 2008.03.15 23:47:00 - [15] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Charlie Chaplin How about making it similar to a Stealth Bomber, that is it can fit oversized guns. That would be an interesting idea for the T2 version, but you'd have to limit it to cruiser-size weapons are the stealthbombers would be obseleted overnight. But a surprise uncloaking 3x damage-bonused 200mm gank could ruin many an inty pilot's day... or 4x range-bonused to fit in with the destroyer ethos better. yeah, I quite like that idea. When you put it like that, why not instead of standart missiles, have 7/6 Heavy missile launchers on the Cormorant. It would probably have a bonus like 90% reduction to Heavy Missile Launcher CPU and PG needs. I think if it had that, along with an extra mid and low slot, it should definetly be able to tank other frigates and dessies at least. _____________________________ "So what do you need, besides a miracle?" "Guns... Lots of guns"
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.16 00:04:00 - [16] Originally by: Thorek Ironbrow Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Charlie Chaplin How about making it similar to a Stealth Bomber, that is it can fit oversized guns. That would be an interesting idea for the T2 version, but you'd have to limit it to cruiser-size weapons are the stealthbombers would be obseleted overnight. But a surprise uncloaking 3x damage-bonused 200mm gank could ruin many an inty pilot's day... or 4x range-bonused to fit in with the destroyer ethos better. yeah, I quite like that idea. When you put it like that, why not instead of standart missiles, have 7/6 Heavy missile launchers on the Cormorant. It would probably have a bonus like 90% reduction to Heavy Missile Launcher CPU and PG needs. I think if it had that, along with an extra mid and low slot, it should definetly be able to tank other frigates and dessies at least. t2 = tier 2 T2 = tech 2 A cloaking destroyer with cruiser guns would definitely be a tech 2 ship. Cormy may as well be left as is. With respect to the tier 2, you need to give them a special defensive or operational advantage to compensate for their weak tank. The tier 1s are all snipers: their role is to alpha small ships. If you want the tier 2 to take on larger ships they need something a little unusual to their advantage. Just making them like the tier 1 but better is, well... just no. I really like the idea of the Tech 2 cloaking destroyers. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Woofsie Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2008.03.16 00:43:00 - [17] Originally by: Bronson Hughes Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 15/03/2008 20:04:43 drones or blasters for Gallente, Originally by: Bronson Hughes They would serve the same purpose as Tier 1 destroyers (i.e. long range anti-frigate platform) I smell a contradiction. This post is wholly representative of the views of both my corp and my alliance. Fnord.
DannyMoe Void Engineers	Posted - 2008.03.16 01:12:00 - [18] id like to see an assualt version of the tier 1 destroyers (like af's) that would be sweet! anyone with me?
RogueWing Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.16 01:25:00 - [19] I would like to see them in some kind of anti-covops role.... If goons are giving you "respect" on CAOD, you pretty much know what you just did was a pile of .
Dyaven Federal Enforcement of the Abyssal Realm Black Scope Project	Posted - 2008.03.16 03:55:00 - [20] Originally by: Thorek Ironbrow Amarr could be called Ragnarok (unless there already is an Amarr ship called that) Surprised nobody jumped on this yet, but the Minmatar Titan is named Ragnarok. ---- In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. - The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Douglas Addams

William Darkk Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2008.03.16 04:51:00 - [21] Originally by: Woofsie Originally by: Bronson Hughes Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 15/03/2008 20:04:43 drones or blasters for Gallente, Originally by: Bronson Hughes They would serve the same purpose as Tier 1 destroyers (i.e. long range anti-frigate platform) I smell a contradiction. +60% drone MWD velocity per level, +5% drone tracking per level, and +10km drone control range per level. Obviously those numbers might be way off. ------------------------------------------------- Mac Graphics Performance Guide <3 my Drones
CrayC CrayC Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.16 05:02:00 - [22] Originally by: Thorek Ironbrow Amarr could be called Ragnarok (unless there already is an Amarr ship called that) Minmatar could be called Gust, or just plain Storm. Ragnarok is the Minmatar Titan, as pointed out above, and Storm was the name of the special Tempest won in one of the Alliance Tournaments, before it got changed to Tribal Issue...
sov68n True Foundation	Posted - 2008.03.16 05:36:00 - [23] Originally by: Charlie Chaplin How about making it similar to a Stealth Bomber, that is it can fit oversized guns. well tbh, the stealth bomber is a T2 ship, and as such, modeling a Tier 2 destroyer after a ship whose role is designed as a T2 ship, would be essentially be making another T2 dessie. I believe we should stick to something that is a beefed up version of the dessie, but without the ability to attack smaller ships effectively. Therefore you have the differeing roles that is indicative of how the Tier system works in EVE.
Rawr Cristina Naqam	Posted - 2008.03.16 05:39:00 - [24] Can I get a Corm with the ability to fit 8 Standard Launchers? and a BCU or two? Pretty please? dreams of instapopping inties ...
Thorek Ironbrow Ironbrow Industries Co. Soldiers of the Forgotten Abyss	Posted - 2008.03.16 17:41:00 - [25] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Can I get a Corm with the ability to fit 8 Standard Launchers? and a BCU or two? Pretty please? dreams of instapopping inties QFT _____________________________ "So what do you need, besides a miracle?" "Guns... Lots of guns"
Bronson Hughes Knights of the Wild Visions of Warfare	Posted - 2008.03.16 17:53:00 - [26] Originally by: Woofsie I smell a contradiction. "Long Range" is a relative term. Blaster Catalysts actually do rather well with T2 Blasters. Since they have bonuses to Optimal, Falloff, and Tracking, they can hit a good bit further away than most blaster frigates when using Null. Or, they could get a drone control range bonus. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
William Darkk Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2008.03.16 18:29:00 - [27] Edited by: William Darkk on 16/03/2008 18:30:20 Edited by: William Darkk on 16/03/2008 18:29:53 Originally by: Bronson Hughes Or, they could get a drone control range bonus. I'd rather have a significant drone speed bonus, to hunt down nanoships. Both would be best though. ------------------------------------------------- Mac Graphics Performance Guide <3 my Drones
orangeFool University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.16 18:30:00 - [28] Edited by: orangeFool on 16/03/2008 18:30:30 For tier 2 destroyer i'd like to see ships that assume the pilot has high skills and has a loadout to match. For Gallente I'd imagine something like: * 7 highs (6 turrets, no launchers; 1 less high and 2 less turrets than a Cat) * 3 mids (1 more than a Cat) * 3 lows (no change) * drone bay of 5m3 base and extra +5m3 per level (level 1 = 10m3, level 5=30m3); 25 bandwidth * less hold, less armour, less mass, higher top speed * less (or no) turret RoF penalty with possible reduction in max targeting range to accommodate It's a destroyer drone-boat, the design being less Catalyst and more super Comet (called a Meteor maybe!). I'm thinking the spare hi would be drone aug, nos, etc. A seek and destroy/approach and identify ship. And please, no "heavy destroyers" or "assault destroyers". I'd like something else, like "pursuit destroyer" or "hunter". Or "guardian". Just my thoughts.
Thorek Ironbrow Ironbrow Industries Co. Soldiers of the Forgotten Abyss	Posted - 2008.03.16 18:43:00 - [29] The biggest thing that could possibly happen to a t2 Destroyer is for the 25% RoF penalty to be taken away. Would make AC and Blaster Dessies lethal. More lethal, I mean. _____________________________ "So what do you need, besides a miracle?" "Guns... Lots of guns"
Thorek Ironbrow Ironbrow Industries Co. Soldiers of the Forgotten Abyss	Posted - 2008.03.16 18:46:00 - [30] Originally by: orangeFool And please, no "heavy destroyers" or "assault destroyers". I'd like something else, like "pursuit destroyer" or "hunter". Or "guardian". Just my thoughts. What would the hunter do? And what would the guardian do? I remember one suggestion was to make the tier 2 version an anti-cloak ship. I personally would prefer Heavy Destroyers. Give them more PG and CPU so that they can have a good tank and still output as much DPS as a tier 1. _____________________________ "So what do you need, besides a miracle?" "Guns... Lots of guns"



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