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Is this an exploit or ok ?

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Jilly Serkov State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.16 07:20:00 - [1] Scanning down a mission runner in high sec, and stealing mission critical, specific loot items so the runner cannot complete the mission ? If it happens, will the scanner/looter be warned or punished, and will the runner be reimbursed ?
Manipulator General o.0	Posted - 2008.03.16 08:37:00 - [2] Valid tactic 4tw.
Wet Ferret Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.16 08:39:00 - [3] It's not an exploit but it's petitionable. They will return mission critical loot (or reset the mission) if it hasn't been looted by the mission owner yet. But after that, anything goes, so you can blow them up after they loot it and then it's ok.
Carniflex Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.03.16 10:18:00 - [4] Originally by: Jilly Serkov Scanning down a mission runner in high sec, and stealing mission critical, specific loot items so the runner cannot complete the mission ? If it happens, will the scanner/looter be warned or punished, and will the runner be reimbursed ? Petition it and if first tier GM turns you down then escalate. As far as I have heard it varies depending on circumanstances what kind of result you get. Sometimes it's classed harassing and sometimes it's valid tackiks.
Venkul Mul Vikramaditya DO JAJA Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.16 11:29:00 - [5] I think that if they try to get a ransom from the player it is a valid tactic, it they steal it for giggles it is harassing. But the best option is to send a petition under the category Rules & Policy asking for a clarification.
Steve Celeste Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.16 12:04:00 - [6] Originally by: Wet Ferret They will return mission critical loot (or reset the mission) if it hasn't been looted by the mission owner yet. Petitioned an objective loss due to DT weeks ago, never got word back from GM's. [insert CCP rant here]
syphurous Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.16 13:30:00 - [7] Offical GM word is, first in, first served. You loose your mission critical loot, your problem. Those that take the item will probably ransom it back to you if your nice. Originally by: GM Faolchu People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong.
notaway Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.17 00:11:00 - [8] Edited by: notaway on 17/03/2008 00:12:16 Now I saw a long long thread on this b4 and there it was indicated anything but mission critical loot could be taken...I think the definition of an exploit is where the victim can do nothing to avoid....I suppose here that if the victim shot the rat with the appropriate loot but just failed to immediately take the loot that there is no exploit...If the non-missioning person shot the rat and took the loot, then the mission runner would have no way of completing the mission--thus should be an exploit... (the other thread was all about the morality of ppl salvaging other ppl's mission wrecks but did not go into the other party actually shooting rats and taking both loot and salvage)
syphurous Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.17 01:21:00 - [9] It was recently comfirmed as fine to kill and take whatever you want by GM Faolchu I believe. Note though they have messed with the wreck system with this nerf patch and now all wrecks belong to the person whos mission it is. So even if they dont undock and have someone else run it, only the mission owner can tractor the wreck/can. I have no clue about running them in fleets as I dont keep any friends lol. I recently snuck into WC lvl4 and killed a bunch of Angel ships, all of the wrecks belonged the mission owner even though I blew the ships up. I got the bounties but had no other rights to them. Meaning when I wanted to salvage I had to use a nanoed frigate to fly to them all and salvage. Someone was farming the mission and wasn't even online so they would had never noticed. Should've finished it & really **ed them off hehe. Originally by:** GM Faolchu People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong.
notaway Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.17 01:35:00 - [10] Booost Booost--come on together n err booost...patch--lol

Mangus Thermopyle Divine Retribution Divine 0rder	Posted - 2008.03.17 10:23:00 - [11] A good way to handle this is to always loot the mission critical stuff in your mission boat. If using a raven, put a tractor beam on the 7 or 8 slot for example. Then you bookmark the place, go to the agent, complete the mission and return with your looting ship to loot and salvage the wrecks. In case you dont know, completing the mission will remove all mission specific stuff (structures, acceleration gates etc) but leave the wrecks and cans. So as long as you have a bookmark for each stage, its easy to go there after mission is completed with your looting ship.
notaway Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.17 17:00:00 - [12] Mangus--I think that is basically what I said above--if the missioner can get his mission specific loot there is no exploit but if some1 else gets to it first by destroying the ship and taking the loot, that would be an exploit. (this can easily happen if the missioner lacks skills and has to warp out repeatedly
Jessamine Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.03.17 18:47:00 - [13] It is allowed. They can take your mission critical loot and there is nothing you can do about it. If you petition it will not be returned to you, they will not be warned or otherwise punished. It sucks, but that is how it is. If you don't believe me, GM Falchou answered this question here Quoting here: Originally by: GM Faolchu It is perfectly within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission area and steal the loot/salvage from the mission NPCs. If they happen to also steal the mission specific loot again this is within the rules of the game, it is a harsh circumstance but it is allowed. Eve is a harsh place and there are often things that happen to you that are not perceived as being entirely 'fair'. Concerning when you actually manage to loot the mission item. If you lose your ship between the time you get the item and the time you get to your agent there is nothing we can do. Unless your loss was not within the game mechanics but within game mechanics is a oft disagreed upon point between Gamemasters and players. Again this can be perceived as harsh but this is Eve. Custom Corporations for HiSec POS Anchoring inEvE Stats
Agif UnderDog Industries Total Eclipse Syndicate	Posted - 2008.03.18 13:40:00 - [14] Its allowed and yes it blows but when your in 4 golems ppl tend to leave ur ass alone :) --------------- EvEmissions - Level 5 Missions - Updated 22/01/08
Hanneshannes Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.18 14:02:00 - [15] If you need a damsel, let me know, I still have one from a mission I never finished lol oO
Jolliejoe Quad Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.03.18 14:44:00 - [16] LoL, ransom over mission important loot... hehehe... just cancel the mission and do the next...
Doctor Athena State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.23 18:32:00 - [17] As far as i know the rules are that: If player stealing the object (or bumping or whatever) is profiting from the action, then its witin rules. If he IS NOT profiting from the action, then its harrasment, and actions are taken against the player. So it all depends on why he took it. As far as i know this aplies to most things on eve.
Sergo Mor'Zert Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.24 09:48:00 - [18] Originally by: Doctor Athena As far as i know the rules are that: If player stealing the object (or bumping or whatever) is profiting from the action, then its witin rules. If he IS NOT profiting from the action, then its harrasment, and actions are taken against the player. So it all depends on why he took it. As far as i know this aplies to most things on eve. And is complete bs, becouse he can tell you to pay 1b for this stuff just to not be in the harrasment category knowing very well his victim will not do so as its rather crazy and laugh even more. This artifical profit and no profit is to easy be abused, you just need to have one alive brain cell nothing more
Wet Ferret Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.24 10:17:00 - [19] It doesn't really matter what GM Faolchu says about this, unless you can prove that the GMs make the rules. To the best of my knowledge, they simply enforce them. Her statement is in direct contradiction with the dev's official ruling on this issue, and I personally will always take their word first. It was deemed harassment due to the fact that the mission runner cannot defend themselves against this behavior and it's a guaranteed standings loss if someone decides to screw their mission. And let's face it. They can't defend themselves, can they? Though I'm sure it still depends on which GM you get, like everything else.
Doctor Athena State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.24 10:27:00 - [20] Edited by: Doctor Athena on 24/03/2008 10:30:39 Originally by: Sergo Mor'Zert Originally by: Doctor Athena As far as i know the rules are that: If player stealing the object (or bumping or whatever) is profiting from the action, then its witin rules. If he IS NOT profiting from the action, then its harrasment, and actions are taken against the player. So it all depends on why he took it. As far as i know this aplies to most things on eve. And is complete bs, becouse he can tell you to pay 1b for this stuff just to not be in the harrasment category knowing very well his victim will not do so as its rather crazy and laugh even more. This artifical profit and no profit is to easy be abused, you just need to have one alive brain cell nothing more I know that anyone with half a brain will be able to get away with it. BUT this are the rules set by the GM. And all the complaining in the world will not change this, so better get used to it. I dont like it either, but thats life. ps: I actually think its even on the EULA. You should read it.

000Hunter000 Missiles 'R' Us	Posted - 2008.03.24 12:51:00 - [21] should be like this, i shoot rat but someone else takes the loot, i can now shoot that person to take the loot back. someone deliberatly shooting the rat to take the mission critical item before u, to prevent u from completing the mission, should be petitionable impo, this kinda crap happened all the time before DS areas were implemented. Someone shoot the rat but leaves the loot, u have an option of taking it at your own risk so this is ok too. _______________________________________________________ CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2008.03.24 14:44:00 - [22] Originally by: Wet Ferret It doesn't really matter what GM Faolchu says about this, unless you can prove that the GMs make the rules. To the best of my knowledge, they simply enforce them. Her statement is in direct contradiction with the dev's official ruling on this issue, and I personally will always take their word first. Where is this official dev statement? * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Wet Ferret Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.24 15:23:00 - [23] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Where is this official dev statement? Somewhere in General Discussion? I'll go dig it up when someone decides to steal my mission loot.
Dynast Aliastra	Posted - 2008.03.25 02:46:00 - [24] Originally by: Sergo Mor'Zert And is complete bs, becouse he can tell you to pay 1b for this stuff just to not be in the harrasment category knowing very well his victim will not do so as its rather crazy and laugh even more. This artifical profit and no profit is to easy be abused, you just need to have one alive brain cell nothing more That's one braincell more than is needed to run level 4's in a permatanked raven or domi. At least the scanner has to have the speed to scan you out in a pocket before you've got the loot, and the luck to get you in that particular pocket. EVE Online is not like Everquest, WoW, or other games which go to great lengths to minimize conflicts between players, and artificially block interaction wherever it might not be considered desireable by one party. EVE does not have PvP switches or instancing to keep everyone at arms length when you feel like it. When you die, not only does all your equipped 'gear' end up on your 'corpse', but half of it is irreparably destroyed. All these things contribute towards EVE Online being what the developers intended: a dark and sometimes cruel world. And frankly, threads like these make me want to scan out random mission runners in Dodixie and pop their triggers just to hear them ***** on local.
Lithalnas Headcrabs	Posted - 2008.03.25 05:51:00 - [25] Originally by: Dynast Originally by: Sergo Mor'Zert And is complete bs, becouse he can tell you to pay 1b for this stuff just to not be in the harrasment category knowing very well his victim will not do so as its rather crazy and laugh even more. This artifical profit and no profit is to easy be abused, you just need to have one alive brain cell nothing more That's one braincell more than is needed to run level 4's in a permatanked raven or domi. At least the scanner has to have the speed to scan you out in a pocket before you've got the loot, and the luck to get you in that particular pocket. EVE Online is not like Everquest, WoW, or other games which go to great lengths to minimize conflicts between players, and artificially block interaction wherever it might not be considered desireable by one party. EVE does not have PvP switches or instancing to keep everyone at arms length when you feel like it. When you die, not only does all your equipped 'gear' end up on your 'corpse', but half of it is irreparably destroyed. All these things contribute towards EVE Online being what the developers intended: a dark and sometimes cruel world. And frankly, threads like these make me want to scan out random mission runners in Dodixie and pop their triggers just to hear them ***** on local. the space in motsu is just cold enough that carebear tears freeze instantly to icecream. And i love taking mission completion items and then dareing people to take it from my jetcan. Its kinda like the final boss in a level. ------------- fixed for greater eve content
Cfiloruz Xilocient Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.25 08:19:00 - [26] its all very nice that this is a cruel place and all and i like it, but mission criticals should be left alone. mess with my income but leave my standing be Low skills and high standing IS a problem.
Dynast Aliastra	Posted - 2008.03.25 08:44:00 - [27] Originally by: Cfiloruz Xilocient its all very nice that this is a cruel place and all and i like it, but mission criticals should be left alone. mess with my income but leave my standing be Uh... why? Seriously, what's your reasoning that missioners should have special protection coded in that makes their particular cans inviolate? Miners cans certainly aren't; a can can have 20m worth of crok in it and it pops just like a can with 100 Foxfire Rockets. Explorers hold no particular claim on their discovered plexes. Moon minerals are yours only so long as you can defend your PoS. Hell, even copying PoSs are subject to eviction with a war dec.


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