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Intellectual Property theft by CCP ?

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Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.17 21:40:00 - [1] Few years ago i was playing a german browser-game, called Droidwars. One day they got a call from a lawyer from Lucas Arts, who was demanding to change the name, as the name and concept of "droids" was intellectual property owned by Lucas Arts. After consulting a lawyer, the company running the browser-game changed the name (to d-wars). When we look at EvE, most of the names and ideas are either unique/invented by CCP (races, ship-designs) or common scifi-names (spaceships, lasers etc.). Others are not. For example Stargates: "Ring-shaped devices that create a wormhole enabling teleportation to complementary devices located cosmic distances away" (Stargates from Stargate Series) might be intellectual property of MGM ? Or things like the "Warp Drives", which is a term/idea originating from the fictional universe of Star Treck. I'm not a lawyer, don't know if those things are seen as registered design or are issues of copyrights, but i don't think CCP can just use those names and ideas without permission, maybe one day they might get a call from a lawyer of the companies that own this intellectual property, who is then not only asking to change the names but for paying a profit-sharing bonus because of using another companys intellectual property for CCP's product.
Kahega Amielden Legacy Syndicate space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2008.03.17 21:42:00 - [2] Well I suppose that depends. How far can you stretch the concept of "intellectual property" that much in Icelandic courts?
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific Interstellar Corporate Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.17 21:42:00 - [3] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Few years ago i was playing a german browser-game, called Droidwars. One day they got a call from a lawyer from Lucas Arts, who was demanding to change the name, as the name and concept of "droids" was intellectual property owned by Lucas Arts. After consulting a lawyer, the company running the browser-game changed the name (to d-wars). When we look at EvE, most of the names and ideas are either unique/invented by CCP (races, ship-designs) or common scifi-names (spaceships, lasers etc.). Others are not. For example Stargates: "Ring-shaped devices that create a wormhole enabling teleportation to complementary devices located cosmic distances away" (Stargates from Stargate Series) might be intellectual property of MGM ? Or things like the "Warp Drives", which is a term/idea originating from the fictional universe of Star Treck. I'm not a lawyer, don't know if those things are seen as registered design or are issues of copyrights, but i don't think CCP can just use those names and ideas without permission, maybe one day they might get a call from a lawyer of the companies that own this intellectual property, who is then not only asking to change the names but for paying a profit-sharing bonus because of using another companys intellectual property for CCP's product. Troll? Goon Alt? All of the Above? You decide....
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.03.17 21:43:00 - [4] You can copyright names, but you can't copyright concepts. "Ring-shaped devices that create a wormhole enabling teleportation to complementary devices located cosmic distances away" is a concept. ---------------- Tarminic - 33 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.79.2
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.17 21:45:00 - [5] Originally by: Tarminic You can copyright names, but you can't copyright concepts. "Ring-shaped devices that create a wormhole enabling teleportation to complementary devices located cosmic distances away" is a concept. Ok but how about "Stargate" and "Warp Drive" ? Those are names.
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.17 21:46:00 - [6] Originally by: Jinx Barker Troll? Goon Alt? All of the Above? You decide.... Is it possible to make a forum post and not get instantly troll-replies like this ?
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.17 21:47:00 - [7] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Tarminic You can copyright names, but you can't copyright concepts. "Ring-shaped devices that create a wormhole enabling teleportation to complementary devices located cosmic distances away" is a concept. Ok but how about "Stargate" and "Warp Drive" ? Those are names. They would fall under trademarks, not copyright. Unless some company has trademarked those words it is a null issue. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.03.17 21:47:00 - [8] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Tarminic You can copyright names, but you can't copyright concepts. "Ring-shaped devices that create a wormhole enabling teleportation to complementary devices located cosmic distances away" is a concept. Ok but how about "Stargate" and "Warp Drive" ? Those are names. True, but you can't really copyright what is essentially two words unless they're the name of a product that you could potentially compete with or something like a proper noun, as far as my understanding goes. If CCP started a show (i.e. competition) called Stargate, they'd be getting angry calls. ---------------- Tarminic - 33 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.79.2
Fink Angel The Merry Men	Posted - 2008.03.17 21:48:00 - [9] H.G. Wells will come back from the dead and sue everyone's sorry asses!
Quelque Chose University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.17 21:48:00 - [10] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Jinx Barker Troll? Goon Alt? All of the Above? You decide.... Is it possible to make a forum post and not get instantly troll-replies like this ? IAC alt spotted. ______________________________ "Eve Online is a massively multiplayer game about trolling in outer space."

Dramund Atonement Arms	Posted - 2008.03.17 21:48:00 - [11] It is a FARGATE! Do you need us to give it a mohawk and a wheelchair?
Cottage Pie Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.17 21:49:00 - [12] the alternative is that lucas never had so much as a prosthetic toe to stand on as droid is surely just a contraction of android?
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood ANTHRAX DEATH	Posted - 2008.03.17 21:50:00 - [13] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Tarminic You can copyright names, but you can't copyright concepts. "Ring-shaped devices that create a wormhole enabling teleportation to complementary devices located cosmic distances away" is a concept. Ok but how about "Stargate" and "Warp Drive" ? Those are names. You misunderstand Tarminic - what he's saying is that Stargates themselves ARE a concept. A stargate - in general - is a "ring-shaped device, yada-yada-yada-words-yada." The concept of "Warp Travel" is to warp the "fabric" of space/time in order to propel an object (in our case, an internet spaceship) to speeds in excess of the speed of light. There's no other name for it - it is Warp Travel. A device that initiates Warp Travel is a Warp Drive. When the EVE-O capital ships start being equipped with Impulse Engines, THEN we might have an issue with the Star Trek folks... but to equip them with Sub-light Drives would not be a similar infraction against Lucasfilm... In short, it's a fine line, and it's mostly semantics, but no... I don't see anything in EVE-O that anybody would have a strong enough leg to stand on in a court of law (in any country, Iceland or otherwise).
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.03.17 21:51:00 - [14] Originally by: Cottage Pie the alternative is that lucas never had so much as a prosthetic toe to stand on as droid is surely just a contraction of android? Unfortunately, I think that's the difference between "'droid" and "Droid." ---------------- Tarminic - 33 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.79.2
Erichk Knaar Maelstrom Crew	Posted - 2008.03.17 21:57:00 - [15] Actually, warp drives date back to the 1930's. The author John Campbell coined the term. He also wrote novels that eventually became the early sci-fi films This Island Earth and The Thing. Stargates (and the concept) have also been around a really long time in sci-fi. Would need to dig up some references, but I think some of Larry Niven's stuff had such devices. Either way, the TV shows were definitely not the first instances of either of these two concepts in sci-fi.
Quelque Chose University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.17 21:59:00 - [16] Edited by: Quelque Chose on 17/03/2008 22:00:01 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Cottage Pie the alternative is that lucas never had so much as a prosthetic toe to stand on as droid is surely just a contraction of android? Unfortunately, I think that's the difference between "'droid" and "Droid." Another thing to remember is that Lucas' eagerness for litigation is rivaled only by the RIAA and maybe the Church of Scientology. "Stargates?" Maybe. There's nothing inherent in the idea of a wormhole generator that suggests a star has to be involved. However, didn't there used to be an arcade quarter muncher called Stargate? I wonder what the first use of that term was... "Warp drives?" That one actually does have some small amount of credibility from a real science POV -- as in, "if it wasn't practically impossible then sure, that's how that would probably work." Much more so than other notions like "hyperspace" or faster- than- light propulsion. Amusingly, the Wikipedia article on tractor beams suggests the idea is at least as old as 1929. edit trivia- ninja'ed above ______________________________ "Eve Online is a massively multiplayer game about trolling in outer space."
Erichk Knaar Maelstrom Crew	Posted - 2008.03.17 22:02:00 - [17]
OwlManAtt Yasashii Syndicate	Posted - 2008.03.17 22:03:00 - [18] The Stargate trademark would not apply in this instance. Trademarks exist to prevent consumers from becoming confused (or being mislead) by similarly-named but inferior knock-off products. Stargate the TV show and EVE stargates are not something that would cause consumers to become confused. You don't go looking for Stargate DVDs and end up with an EVE subscription, wondering where Carter went. To maintain a trademark, it has to be actively defended, too. I cannot imagine why whoever owns Star Trek this week would want a trade mark on the term 'warp drive' (they aren't selling warp drive merchandising, are they?), but if they did have it, it would be useless. I haven't heard of any of the legion of scifi authors who use the term getting C&Ds. --- SVP OwlManAtt, Yasashii Syndicate
Bester Tradier School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.03.17 22:19:00 - [19] Originally by: OwlManAtt Stargate the TV show and EVE stargates are not something that would cause consumers to become confused. You don't go looking for Stargate DVDs and end up with an EVE subscription, wondering where Carter went. Didn't she move to Evelantis? I'm so confused :)
OwlManAtt Yasashii Syndicate	Posted - 2008.03.17 22:20:00 - [20] Originally by: Bester Tradier Originally by: OwlManAtt Stargate the TV show and EVE stargates are not something that would cause consumers to become confused. You don't go looking for Stargate DVDs and end up with an EVE subscription, wondering where Carter went. Didn't she move to Evelantis? I'm so confused :) I stopped watching when they promoted Jack into obscurity. I don't know. --- SVP OwlManAtt, Yasashii Syndicate

Jacob Mei Slacker Industries Limited	Posted - 2008.03.17 22:30:00 - [21] The stargate from the movies and shows is a single interlocking ring with transport in one direction at any single given time and may dial any other gate provided you have seven to nine chevrons in the correct sequence. The stargates from EvE are anywhere from one to several interlocking rings of massive proportions only found in space, supported by inhabitable modules attached to the gate and allow travel in both directions and are only connected to a sister gate at the other end. They do not require symbols to dial another gate. The warp drive of Star Trek is a faster then light propulsion system where as (I believe) the warp drive of EvE is not. The only things each share is the name and the similarites end there, the way they go about their actions are two completely diffrent methods.
Karanth GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.17 22:32:00 - [22] Originally by: Quelque Chose Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Jinx Barker Troll? Goon Alt? All of the Above? You decide.... Is it possible to make a forum post and not get instantly troll-replies like this ? IAC alt spotted. As Grand Poobah of Trolling, I can confirm that none of the above posters are actual alts, mains, or any other creation of humanity. What that leaves, who knows, I'll be off swigging rum. And, just for the sake of the thread, I'll say that, like others have suggested, the people in charge of the estates of all the long dead authors would have sued us back to the stone age if they could. "Current Earth-Destruction Status"
William Darkk Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2008.03.17 22:33:00 - [23] Originally by: Jacob Mei The warp drive of Star Trek is a faster then light propulsion system where as (I believe) the warp drive of EvE is not. It is. 3 au/second is 1440x speed of light. ------------------------------------------------- Mac Graphics Performance Guide <3 my Drones
Cottage Pie Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.17 22:38:00 - [24] Originally by: William Darkk Originally by: Jacob Mei The warp drive of Star Trek is a faster then light propulsion system where as (I believe) the warp drive of EvE is not. It is. 3 au/second is 1440x speed of light. pretty much warp 9 oh hai I have no life.
reched Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.03.17 22:41:00 - [25] to the OP: stargates aren't REAL! therefore they cannot be copyrighted. some people need to get outside a bit more... [imghttp://graham.elitistjerks.com/bobsigzz3.jpg[/img]
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H.	Posted - 2008.03.17 22:47:00 - [26] By your logic, Tolkien could sue every high-fantasy game/novel/whatever for infringement. Fact is, LucasArts will sue anyone and everyone in regards to this. Mr. Lucas seems to think he invented the sci-fi fairytale concept, androids, the concept of a spiritual force binding the universe, spaceships and bad guys dressed in black You decide...
Grimpak Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.17 22:52:00 - [27] Originally by: Cottage Pie Originally by: William Darkk Originally by: Jacob Mei The warp drive of Star Trek is a faster then light propulsion system where as (I believe) the warp drive of EvE is not. It is. 3 au/second is 1440x speed of light. pretty much warp 9 oh hai I have no life. so the ones that warp at 12AU/sec are above warp9? somehow this is a "divide by zero" moment. OH SHI- --- Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards
Quelque Chose University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.17 22:53:00 - [28] Edited by: Quelque Chose on 17/03/2008 22:53:44 Originally by: Grimpak so the ones that warp at 12AU/sec are above warp9? somehow this is a "divide by zero" moment. OH SHI- In technical circles this is commonly known as "Ludicrous Speed." ______________________________ "Eve Online is a massively multiplayer game about trolling in outer space."
Bagdon Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.17 23:08:00 - [29] Originally by: Pohbis Fact is, LucasArts will sue anyone and everyone in regards to this. Mr. Lucas seems to think he invented the sci-fi fairytale concept, androids, Star Wars... Foundation... An"droids"... humaniform robots Coruscant ... Trantor ... The force ... mentalics ... I think someone named Lucas was reading too much Asimov when he was young. There's no plagiarism here. Authors and artists have been borrowing from each other for eternities. Creativity is an incremental process.
Frug Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.03.17 23:10:00 - [30] Edited by: Frug on 17/03/2008 23:11:32 OP has an interesting point. And I think if the eve universe did away with some of the cliche terminology that has been borrowed from common science fiction, that the world would be more interesting. But they tend to completely neglect the connection between their backstory and the actual game. Try reading their "science of eve" stuff and then looking at how little of that has been brought into the game itself. Much of it would be trivial to include. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles



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