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Zero Target
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.20 18:46:00 -
[181]
 Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: 3rdD Dave
So your saying theres no depth to WOW at all?
Yes.
I tried it for a week. Just so I could talk intelligently about how bad it is. I've been playing Eve for what? 3+ years now? Zero depth.
Wow, you spent a whole week in WoW and didn't find tremendous depth? What level did you make it to, 20 or so?
Not knowing the basics of a game that's been played by tens of millions of people itself is not a crime, but offering your opinion without knowing those basics is punishable by pointing and laughing. 
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Zero Target
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.20 19:13:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Rawblin
But then the Expansion came out, raising the level cap from 60 to 70. Incidentally, EVERYTHING you had spent months and maybe even YEARS getting.... it's now worthless. Thats right, you ding lvl 61 and you are fully decked out in Tier2-3 gear? That green item off that mob, better.
I had 6/9 T3 when TBC dropped and I didn't mind replacing that gear one bit. The alternative was what was happening in WoW at the time (and needs to be addressed in EVE), namely that new players found it increasingly difficult to compete with an ever-widening gear gap. This situation is worse in EVE where your character's power is basically determined by the date you signed up, and much less by hard work and skill!
(Incidentally you don't know what it is to be ****** in the ass by Blizzard unless you played a mage from beta, and I even did the GM grind only to see my gear being given away for BG tokens so I got ****** in the ass two times, by a cement truck no less. Accept that class nerfs/role changes/etc. are going to happen, and your gear will never stay the best, and you'll do fine in WoW.)
I think any MMO that features "gear progression" (or ship progression) needs to base their effort/reward balance on a log graph where new players can "catch up" to veterans, something on the order of a year or so, because who wants to sign up for a game where you'll NEVER be able to compete?
Note: at least EVE allows you to PARTICIPATE straight out of the gate with tackling mechanics etc., but you're sure not going to COMPETE with the guy who flies a faction carrier for a long, long time.
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Zero Target
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.20 19:27:00 -
[183]
Originally by: cnuchavez
Sure, capital city raids. Whenever you try to put the M in MMORPG in wow the servers crash. I was in a guild called <Total War> on Haomarush with (500+ members at one point)that were tired of the endless boring and repetitive pvp grind so we grouped up and won battles with superior numbers rather than gear. Walk into IF with more than 40 and the game crashes.
Ironforge on Mannoroth last night had more than 200 people in it and wasn't even especially busy, when was the last time you played this game?
World PVP works fine from a technical perspective, it's just that the rewards are not there to make it worthwhile on a large scale.
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decoherance
Disturbance Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.20 19:36:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Tarminic
In other News: Alcoholics give Alcohol a ten out of ten!
Thread winner
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KapnKaboom
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.03.20 19:52:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Zero Target
Wow, you spent a whole week in WoW and didn't find tremendous depth? What level did you make it to, 20 or so?
Not knowing the basics of a game that's been played by tens of millions of people itself is not a crime, but offering your opinion without knowing those basics is punishable by pointing and laughing.
A week is all it takes to reach level 70 in WoW. After maxing out my fourth character I realized just how dry and pointless WoW was. Even Starwars Galaxies has more to offer than WoW ever will.
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Asuka Smith
StarHunt
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.03.20 21:07:00 -
[186]
I have read this and all I can say is you guys are awfully elitist and loving patting yourselves on the back for playing the "better" MMO.
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Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.03.20 21:18:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Kvaell
Originally by: Xaen
Just look at all the different mission running ships people use! We've got cruise Ravens with 4 hardeners, cruise ravens with 3 hardeners, cruise ravens with 4 BCS, cruise ravens with faction boosters, cruise ravens with T2 boosters, cruise ravens with tractor beams, cruise ravens with PDS IIs....I mean the list goes on and on!
look at the diversity!
Well missions aren't know for their high diversity since it's all about gank and tank.
Speed, size, aligning time, E-war, tackling, cloaking etc. are not considered for whether or not your ship is good at mission running unlike pvp were they all factor depending on what kind of ship you choose.
The point is there's essentially one optimal way to run level 4 missions (which are the most profitable, so everyone generally works towards them).
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Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Vanessa Vale
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.20 22:58:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Tarminic
WoW's infinite grind is addictive, but not much else.
Amusing. I find grind irritating.
Minmatar Boost Brigade |
Lurana Jade
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.20 22:58:00 -
[189]
WoW is popular because the Devs there don't play in player Guilds and give their friends Ub3r Lewt.
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Vanessa Vale
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Posted - 2008.03.20 23:21:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Orisletum Vae
T
The EVE advancement system achieves the same thing EverQuest did - the age of the character becomes a huge advantage that can never be overcome.
I agree on a good number of your points but not this one. Theres a certain threshold where age doesn't give you advantage flying a ship because everybody can only train to level 5.
And I don't know how pvp in wow works, but here two characters significantly under the age of another can bring the latter to its knees or make him run away without a lot of trouble.
Minmatar Boost Brigade |
Saryntos
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Posted - 2008.03.20 23:57:00 -
[191]
:: empties out a fire-extinguisher on the thread ::
EVE isn't going to do so well if anyone reviews post-patch, because it's not exactly fun when:
1) You have issues logging in.
2) You can't play at the resolution you want.
4) Missing bookmarks and settings aren't saving properly.
5) You have to install Nhancer and do various tweaks to enable FSAA/AF,
when many games have it in their normal video options.
6) You fear doing anything that may put your ship into possible danger
due to the client crashing or worse.
7) You have lost one third or more of your original fps.
8) The usual lag.
Whining about just balance and nerfs is better than whining about not being able to play the game, period.
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Etchyboy
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Posted - 2008.03.21 00:50:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Lurana Jade
WoW is popular because the Devs there don't play in player Guilds and give their friends Ub3r Lewt.
ohh snap!
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Esalia Naivre
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Posted - 2008.03.21 01:05:00 -
[193]
Man... people in this thread...
In any case, having played both games for a while (Eve somewhat less extensively than WoW) my take is rather simple.
Firstly - in terms of technical execution, Blizzards implementation, though not without it's flaws, pretty much stomps Eve into a squishy paste, with which you can make a tasty sauce, possibly to be put atop pasta al dente.
Secondly - Eve and WoW exercise entirely different sets of skills, and have such vastly different gameplay goals that comparing them directly is, at best, daunting. From my experience in Eve, I can say I find it a far more strategic experience; success in game seems much more dependent on good planning, judgement, and forethought, which makes it far more cerebrally engaging for me. World of Warcraft is much more dependent upon reflexes and (if you can call it such) "technical" skill, i.e. the ability to control your character well via direct manipulation, something Eve is, practically speaking, entirely bereft of. I suppose it would be more accurate to say that in Eve technical skill is, in every practical way that I can discern, all tied up in strategy, while in WoW technical skill involves no strategy and very limited tactical thinking but a generally engaging "run-n-gun" type of gameplay.
Of course, because of these vast differences, there will be people who are put off by one or the other; those who are primarily interested in the exercise of strategy, judgement,et all will likely find games such as Eve more to their palette, and those who enjoy tests of reflexes and quick (if limited) tactical choices will likely find wow more their speed.
Of course, I enjoy both styles, and thus can enjoy both games. |
Thorradin
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Posted - 2008.03.21 03:19:00 -
[194]
Originally by: 3rdD Dave
Eurogamer.net is in the process of re-reviewing popular MMOs. World of Warcraft is first, and scored 10/10. This doesn't mean its perfect, nor will EG say this. It means it hits all the right criteria to make the game enjoyable on all accounts has been reached [ read subjective ]
Quote:
WOW might have made Blizzard stupendously rich and powerful, but it hasn't made it complacent. Its maintenance of the game goes far beyond tinkering under the hood and bolting on new features. Its drive to improve every aspect of the game experience is tireless.
Granted Blizzard are giants in respect to CCP, but lets face it, CCP are no slouches either. I wonder what Eve will score as Eurogamer are known to be quite tough reviewers.
WoW is popular because it has two things other MMOs do not:
Heavy marketing.
An existing online market full of people who have no problem spending hours a day killing the same NPC over and over for slightly better drops.
WoW's devs implemented the grind for gear that kept people on D2, and set it in a world that is more popular, or atleast much better written, than Diablo's.
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Asuka Smith
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Posted - 2008.03.21 04:11:00 -
[195]
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 21/03/2008 04:11:48
You people talk down about WoW, saying that the only people who play are idiots with no brains, and that the only reason it is popular is because people are stupid and the mass-marketing easily effects them...
You are just plain wrong.
People play WoW because it works just like it is supposed to, no game smashing bugs. no huge lag storms. no node crashes. no major imbalances.
WoW is more popular than anything else because in terms of execution it is straight up better than anything else. The only reason EVE can compete is because Blizzard is not interested in making a game like EVE, if Blizzard made a spaceship MMO in a similar vein to EVE they would blow CCP out of the water because CCP are totally incompetent (I could list bugs but we have a half dozen forums for that) and corrupt (see T2 scandal).
You talk EVE up when in fact the only reason most people even play EVE is because it is the only game that appeals to the hardcore PVP sandbox niche. EVE is popular because it is not competing with anyone. I personally found WoW to be boring but I must say that as soon as a better game of the same style as EVE is released this game is going to crash and burn.
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Manic Smile
Tau Ceti Global Production
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.21 05:10:00 -
[196]
Originally by: 3rdD Dave
So your saying theres no depth to WOW at all?
Yes I would say it's about as deep as my toilet bowl.
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Tomogara
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Posted - 2008.03.21 05:16:00 -
[197]
I'd say the things WoW does well:
1. Easy leveling -- it's very easy to hit max level.
2. Possible to level solo as any class.
3. Good aggro/tanking system.
4. No one-button classes -- each class has many skills and using them effectively is critical.
5. Quest time/benefit ratios are overall quite good.
6. Many encounters in the group/raid instances are tuned to require coordination and teamwork, not just pure DPS.
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Goilveig
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Posted - 2008.03.21 05:21:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Thorradin
An existing online market full of people who have no problem spending hours a day killing the same NPC over and over for slightly better drops.
That's actually not typical of WoW. You grind to the level cap very fast, then it's about gear. Gear means instances -- while you can repeatedly enter normal instances, the best loot comes from heroics (which can be done only once per day) or raids (once per week).
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Crooked Official
League of Ordinary Gentlemen
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Posted - 2008.03.21 14:50:00 -
[199]
Originally by: cnuchavez
WoW isn't a better MMORPG than EvE because WoW isn't an MMORPG in the first place.
EVE is a MMORPG? News to me.. Massive Multiplayer Online RolePlaying Game???
Where the hell is the roleplaying in EVE? There are a few corps RPing, but since its a single shared shard for everyone, they have to do their RPing in the same environment as thousands of non-RPing players..
WOW has its own RP servers. Sure many dont RP there, but its ALOT better than trying to RP with 10 of your friends on a WOW PVP server.. which is the equivalent to attempting to RP in EVE.. ;)
EVE is a MMOG, WOW is MMOG and MMORPG (kinda).
Not saying WOW is better, I play both games. But lately WOW has been more FUN and EVE more like WORK when i log on.
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KapnKaboom
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Posted - 2008.03.21 14:57:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Goilveig
That's actually not typical of WoW. You grind to the level cap very fast, then it's about gear. Gear means instances -- while you can repeatedly enter normal instances, the best loot comes from heroics (which can be done only once per day) or raids (once per week).
No, actually gear means arena. Why waste time trying to get trash from instances when you can sit on your thumbs in the arena all day and get your welfare epics, which in many cases are BETTER than the epic gear you actually have to work for? Another reason why WoW = Epic Failure.
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Esmenet
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.21 15:33:00 -
[201]
Edited by: Esmenet on 21/03/2008 15:33:42
Originally by: Crooked Official
Originally by: cnuchavez
WoW isn't a better MMORPG than EvE because WoW isn't an MMORPG in the first place.
EVE is a MMORPG? News to me.. Massive Multiplayer Online RolePlaying Game???
Where the hell is the roleplaying in EVE? There are a few corps RPing, but since its a single shared shard for everyone, they have to do their RPing in the same environment as thousands of non-RPing players..
WOW has its own RP servers. Sure many dont RP there, but its ALOT better than trying to RP with 10 of your friends on a WOW PVP server.. which is the equivalent to attempting to RP in EVE.. ;)
EVE is a MMOG, WOW is MMOG and MMORPG (kinda).
Not saying WOW is better, I play both games. But lately WOW has been more FUN and EVE more like WORK when i log on.
RPG:
Eve actually has much more in terms of roleplaying, both in terms of classic roleplaying corps and the fact that 0.0 life/politics is really roleplaying on a scale that wow does not offer(if you cant see this you have a very limited view of roleplaying). The socalled RP servers on wow is a joke, there is more elves cybering than any actual roleplaying going on. You can not influence the gameworld in any way in wow.
MMO:
In wow you will at most interact with 25 people in a raidgroup. For the most part wow is a singleplayer game. Leveling from 1-70 is a singleplayer game. The auction houses, tradeskills etc offers very little in terms of player-player interaction. There is no real point to having a guild except as a permanent raidgroup. Pvp is limited to instanced battlegrounds. If wow can call itself a mmo, so can all fps games. EVE however is largely playerdriven.
Wow threads should die though as there is little point comparing it to EVE.
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Danjira Ryuujin
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.21 17:52:00 -
[202]
People think Wow is such a good game because of its polished facade. Get beneath what you see and you'll realize that the relationship between the community sucks(I'm not talkin about immature people) and that the only goal is to constantly acquire tidbits that blizzard craps on you. I mean honestly, what benefit does raising a level cap do except temporarily extend the grind?
Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005 |
Danjira Ryuujin
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Posted - 2008.03.21 18:03:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Finfamfoom
Originally by: Tarminic
I think what people are referring to here is challenging. WoW may not be easy per se, but it generally doesn't require much active brain use either.
Really? Get 40 ppl to clear Black Wing Lair, or better yet, AQ40.
It takes sometimes Weeks to plan strategies just to clear the trash to get to the bosses, let alone the bosses themselves (Endgame Raids).
Raids needed brains, coordination, flawless execution, situational awareness (ty vent).
Of course, that was the Top 10%, which says something.
That sounds epic! Oh wait, you're spending weeks trying to recognize exploitable patterns(strategy) against npcs. How long does it take for most people to come to that relization? Maybe competing against players in Eve is more challenging after all.
Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005 |
Thornat
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.03.21 18:10:00 -
[204]
This might not make a lot of sense to some, but to me WOW was a great game, but its not a great MMO. What I mean by that is that the first run through it was a lot of fun which took me about six months. AfterI hit top level and started new characters I found very little joy in the game and although I have come back on occassion to see 'whats new', I've yet to find a reason to stay. Simply put it could have just as easily been a single player game which you play through once and put it on the shelf.
Blizzard to me without question or reservation is one of the best game developers out there today, but MMO's is not their specialty by any stretch of the imagination. I believe the success of World of Warcraft can be attributed to their ability to capture a 'non-gamer' audiance, after all there are more people playing WOW today then there were MMO players in all games in existance put together when it launched, hence one can only conclude that they have drawn out a lot of people with PC's to try their game who would not otherwise play MMOs or games at all.
How they did it really just boils down to advertisment, I mean WOW is mainstream. They have severly overspent on marketing and advertisment, reaching out to the general public. In comparison for example, I'm what you might consider a hardcore game (I read magazine, check sites and participate in a lot of games spending about 4 hours per day gaming). When it came to Eve I never even heard of it until 2 years after release and still to this day when I ask people if they have ever tried Eve the answer is 'what is Eve, never heard of it' and when I mention WOW, even my friends who don't own computers know what it is.
So WOW is popular to a new audiance who has no idea what a MMO can actually be in terms of game experiance and while games like Eve offer a far superior experiance, they also offer a far more complex and deep experiance. Something most casual WOW like gamers simply don't want. Eve is a game for hardcore gamers, there are very few casual players in Eve.
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Raveski
Ministry of Funny Walks
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Posted - 2008.03.21 19:14:00 -
[205]
The ego involved in some of these posts is amazing. Eve and WOW are different. The learning curve is different. There is nothing but the amount of time in those curves that makes a difference. You must be willing to spend a very long time to progress by gaining skill points through the highly difficult task of being subscribed to the game. This is not superior, it is just another/different time sink, not much different from chasing purples in WOW. Please note, I'm not saying that leveling in WOW is difficult either, hardly. WOW on the other hand, you can play through relatively quickly (compared to EVE), if you want all the "best" gear it is going to take some more time. Or you can run it through using different characters, here you have the option of running one character who can learn it all. They are different that is all. The reason I will be leaving this game when something "better" comes along is the feeling of being held hostage to a clock, my skill does not really come into play in advancing my character only the amount of time I continue to pay my bill. (and to answer the normal forum childishness- No you can't have my stuff. I will leave my accumulated pixels behind in my "stash" as I have done in every other game before this one.)
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Abrazzar
Equilibrium Inc.
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.03.21 19:19:00 -
[206]
Blizzard doesn't get it right, Blizzard makes it right.
Behold the power of supreme marketing.
--------
Ideas for:
Mining
Clouds
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FarScape III
Journey On Squad
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Posted - 2008.03.21 19:25:00 -
[207]
WoW is good at what it does and the same with
EVE but they are not the same thing.
Every game that tried to copy WoW better then WoW, did not do too well especialy compered to how much they spent on marketing.
Be original will be harder but in the long run you will get people who love your game.
Let WoW be WoW if you like WoW then play it. Just hope that when a favorite game of yours gets WoWified and not it's own game like EVE is, that they take a look at how EVE does it.
I like EVE because it is what it is not becouse it is something else.
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Nu Wa
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Posted - 2008.03.21 19:34:00 -
[208]
Some players love to hate WOW.. instead of just saying they don't like WOW, they have to say the game is for stupid people or something. Its almost like they are seeking justification/reassurance in what they chose to do.
Even if what they claim is true, they still sound like elitist thinking jaackarses...
Keep in mind everytime you do that, I'm making donkey noises in my head. ^^
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Jarvis Drago
Versus Gloria Omnis
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Posted - 2008.03.21 19:38:00 -
[209]
Edited by: Jarvis Drago on 21/03/2008 19:41:37
There is one HUGE difference between WoW and Eve.
Eve requires patience.
Why? Because you spend 90% of your time WAITING for stuff to happen.
Waiting to dock.
Waiting for skills to finish.
Waiting for build queues.
Waiting for mining lasers to cycle.
Waiting for someone to jump through the gate so you can waiting to lock on so you can start waiting for your guns to fire so you can wait waiting for the enemy's tank to run out.
You can wait for the next freaking FRAME in the slideshow they call fleet battles.
Eve is the perfect game for those who love to wait for stuff.
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Krokus13
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Posted - 2008.03.21 20:39:00 -
[210]
EVE requires nothing. You charactor gets better as you sleep! ROFL The thing that differs players in EVE mainly is simply the day that THEY decided to drop the 15 bucks a month....not much else. Hours=Skills for the most part. Its a very cool game and the long learning curve and sandbox play style is one of the nice things about it....but thats about it.
OK /flame on 
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