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Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Ixion Defence Systems
The Cyrene Initiative
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Posted - 2008.03.19 20:56:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Omarvelous
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra
I would like to ask you what is the MWD bonus you are talking about (and put it in the tackle category you made).
I'm quite certain you don't know or at least haven't understood what is that bonus and where it helps.
You can sustain a MWD better than any other ship, thereby getting to your target to tackle it, and have enough cap after you get into range, to keep the point and web and still fire all your guns. That's why I included it as a tackle bonus.
The bonus of Deimos (and Thorax) is as can be seen in the info screen is:
5% less penalty to max capacitor capacity for Microwarpdrive usage per level
Which basically means that in level 5 of Cruiser you get no penalty to the capacitor capacity. As you know fitting a MWD takes off 25% of your capacitor capacity. Even when you are not using the MWD.
It doesn't mean that we get a 5% per level less energy consumption for MWD usage. So Deimos is in fact bleeding the same as every other ship when it uses it's MWD, which means less energy to fire our blasters (which do eat a lot of capacitor energy) and less capacitor for using an Armor Repairer (if a pilot chooses to put one). You can understand now why many don't use armor repairers on their Deimos.
Basically this bonus can be added to survivability features of Deimos, since either it helps with the guns keep firing, or in case of a tank for keeping a MAR running a little longer.
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Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
RisingDragon
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.19 22:45:00 -
[32]
Edited by: RisingDragon on 19/03/2008 22:46:02
Im in two minds on this, i loved CCP's proposed changes but at the same time its MWD bonus makes it unique. Howver dropping that 6th high and giving it a 4th mid would do it a world of favours, heres why;
The biggest problem with the deimos is its definite role, it just doesnt work as a nano hac! ATM hacs are onle seen to be used for nanofaggotry - why use a deimos when an ishtar can speed tank, dictate range, tackle and do nearly as much damage with its drones! Even then, a non nano'd ishtar can tank a deimos' damage and kill it. The reason being - the deimos cant cap inject and tackle like the ishtar (which also does a bit too much damage imho!). Give the deimos its 4th mid a little bit more pg, then grease that nerf bat and sort out those flaming nanofags! Problem solved!
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Wardeneo
BLL Wise Guys
Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.03.20 01:41:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Taguchi Hiroko
Deimos is a pretty mediocre HAC. Bit more useful than the Eagle, but that's about it. Can't beat a Zealot before its boost, now a Zealot pwn's Deimos any time.
How to boost it? Move the high to the mid so it can fit an injector, adjust the pg accordingly. Everyone has been suggesting this all along, why all the discussion.
signed/
If brute force doesn't work..... your not using enough :) |
M1AU
Rheintal Underground Rising
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Posted - 2008.03.20 01:58:00 -
[34]
I guess more armor hp is a good way to simply buff the deimos defense capabilities.
However, I will refer to the MWD bonus in this post
In it's current state, the MWD capacitor penalty reduction on both the deimos and thorax isn't that effective in some situations, because it only applies to a single module and the module itself still needs it's full cap to get activated.
Of course Microwarpdrives are used on almost every ship nowadays, espacially in pvp engagements, but still I would like to see a bonus for Microwarpdrives AND Afterburners.
As I guess a speed bonus on thouse two ships would be just overpowerd, I personally would fix this with another capacitor based propulsation bonus:
"10% reduction in Microwarpdrive and Afterburner activation cost per Gallente cruiser Level."
IMO this bonus could be more useful in some/most situations for MWD and AB users, but of course that depends.
The base capacitor of the deimos and thorax maybe needs to be changed too, but that should differ only on a few points to bring it inline with it's current bonus.
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Grimpak
Trinity Nova
Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.20 06:18:00 -
[35]
Originally by: RisingDragon
Edited by: RisingDragon on 19/03/2008 22:46:02
Im in two minds on this, i loved CCP's proposed changes but at the same time its MWD bonus makes it unique. Howver dropping that 6th high and giving it a 4th mid would do it a world of favours, heres why;
The biggest problem with the deimos is its definite role, it just doesnt work as a nano hac! ATM hacs are onle seen to be used for nanofaggotry - why use a deimos when an ishtar can speed tank, dictate range, tackle and do nearly as much damage with its drones! Even then, a non nano'd ishtar can tank a deimos' damage and kill it. The reason being - the deimos cant cap inject and tackle like the ishtar (which also does a bit too much damage imho!). Give the deimos its 4th mid a little bit more pg, then grease that nerf bat and sort out those flaming nanofags! Problem solved!
definite role?
extreme short range fire support isn't a role?
while something should be done to the 6th high slot, the deimos is not a solo machine.
it works well in gangs and people still try to shovel it in solo situations.
also, considering how I use the deimos, the 4th mid would only be good for me to slap a sensor booster, since 2 minutes of cap with all modules active is all that I need usually (and I don't need the mwd on at all times).
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Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.03.20 07:17:00 -
[36]
The one problem with Deimos is that its maneuverability is not that great, and adding one low slot so that one could fit an istab would not be used for an istab. So, my suggestion for Deimos boost would be to drop the utility high slot and reduce the agility modifier from 0.65 to 0.4 or something like that.
Now that I think about it, that would be very good for Megathron, too. Drop one high, reduce agility mod...
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Gradient forum |
Alak D'bor
Viper Squad
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.20 09:48:00 -
[37]
OFF
TOPIC
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Durethia
Black Plague.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.20 17:30:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Durethia on 20/03/2008 17:30:08
The only change I would enjoy would be for the utility hi-slot to become a sixth turret mount. I think that would be very nice for a gank ship.
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0raven0
Point-Zero
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.20 17:33:00 -
[39]
The devs didn't think it needed a boost, they though that its slot layout was wrong. The devs once again tried to fix something that wasn't broken. We told them they were wrong so they stopped from trying to "fix" it and realized its already fine.
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Quote:
tuxford: AT LEAST ITS SPEELED CORRECTLY
tuxford: spelled*
Oveur: rofl
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Durethia
Black Plague.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.20 17:33:00 -
[40]
Originally by: 0raven0
The devs didn't think it needed a boost, they though that its slot layout was wrong. The devs once again tried to fix something that wasn't broken. We told them they were wrong so they stopped from trying to "fix" it and realized its already fine.
QFT
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Euriti
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.03.20 17:40:00 -
[41]
Give it another mid or drop a hi for a mid. Then add some PG so you can fit a cap booster.
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Reducing lag, one carebear at a time. |
Lobo Noturno
BGG
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.03.20 18:32:00 -
[42]
Angelic,
Since you cannot read very well, i will write again with bigger letters...
IF THE DEIMOS NEEDS A BUFF TO MATCH THE ZEALOT...
If you believe it already is fine, then sure, nothing needs to change. If others believe the Zealot and Deimos on a one-to-one should be a tie, then the Deimos needs to last longer or reach DMG range to the Zealot faster. What we're trying to find here is a change that would not change its role and yet would not make it overpowered. No one wants the deimos to be the fastest HAC, although being the second fastest would make sense...(since it has the absolutely worst dmg range of all hacs) Perhaps just giving it more agility instead of a speed buff.(if it aligns and accelerates faster, it will reach dmg range faster just the same...)
Lobo
ps. I think an armor buff could make it just perfect for this Zealot engagement, but it has to be very well balanced to account for the fleet effects...
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Dr Fighter
White Moon Knights
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Posted - 2008.03.20 18:34:00 -
[43]
Originally by: TimMc
Deimos is fine. Only useful bonus would be a 10% bonus to armour HP, but that bonus as well as resistance bonus is reserved for Amarr. Gallente get bonus to repair amount.
but your getting more bonuses shared between races now, and IMO the armor HP bonus would be just right....
enough cap and speed to MWD in and fire and enough HP to last to kill stuff. with the fitting the way they are atm ofc
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Annowyn
Clan'Destine
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Posted - 2008.03.20 18:45:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Durethia
Edited by: Durethia on 20/03/2008 17:30:08
The only change I would enjoy would be for the utility hi-slot to become a sixth turret mount. I think that would be very nice for a gank ship.
Are ypou serious? 
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Grimpak
Trinity Nova
Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.21 06:44:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Annowyn
Originally by: Durethia
Edited by: Durethia on 20/03/2008 17:30:08
The only change I would enjoy would be for the utility hi-slot to become a sixth turret mount. I think that would be very nice for a gank ship.
Are ypou serious?
"Oh hai thar. here's my 800DPS+ ship with 0 tank."
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Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards |
Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.21 06:46:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Grimpak
"Oh hai thar. here's my 800DPS+ ship with 0 tank."
My Falcon says that's ok. :p
-Liang
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Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance. |
Damned Force
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.21 08:00:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 18/03/2008 23:41:16
I'm 100% a fan of a ROF bonus too. I promise it wouldn't be OP. :P
-Liang
Ed: And yes, I read the OP and know he was suggesting an armor amount boost (presumably static).
well, tbh the RoF would make the deimos into a very, very, very nasty beast.
the downside however would be that the weak cap of the ship would be even more stressed out.
...but I'm cool with it tbh
yes, why offer cap for more damage? lets give +100% damage as role bonus and take away 2 turret slots :)
ps: the demios dont need any change
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Grimpak
Trinity Nova
Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.21 10:43:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Grimpak
"Oh hai thar. here's my 800DPS+ ship with 0 tank."
My Falcon says that's ok. :p
-Liang
my falcon and my rook says the same thing
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Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards |
Willy Joe
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Posted - 2008.03.21 11:25:00 -
[49]
Originally by: RisingDragon
Edited by: RisingDragon on 19/03/2008 22:46:02
Im in two minds on this, i loved CCP's proposed changes but at the same time its MWD bonus makes it unique. Howver dropping that 6th high and giving it a 4th mid would do it a world of favours, heres why;
The biggest problem with the deimos is its definite role, it just doesnt work as a nano hac! ATM hacs are onle seen to be used for nanofaggotry - why use a deimos when an ishtar can speed tank, dictate range, tackle and do nearly as much damage with its drones! Even then, a non nano'd ishtar can tank a deimos' damage and kill it. The reason being - the deimos cant cap inject and tackle like the ishtar (which also does a bit too much damage imho!). Give the deimos its 4th mid a little bit more pg, then grease that nerf bat and sort out those flaming nanofags! Problem solved!
You , my friend, are hilarious. The Ishtar does nowhere the damage of the Deimos. IIRC it gets up to 450 dps out of ogres II - where the Deimos is able to easily reach 750 dps in a gank fit with the ability to overload it's guns for another 100 dps or so( dps of 5 hammerhead IIs included ) or go down to about 600 dps with ecm drones fitted. Add the fact Deimos' damage source cannot be taken down unlike the drones and it is clear that for the sole purpose of a gang damage dealer the Deimos is MUCH better than the Ishtar.
Only place the Ishtar is better is solo or nano gangs. 
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Poba
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Posted - 2008.03.21 17:58:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Poba on 21/03/2008 17:58:43
well for those of u that say its fine, the devs have said that after the zealot boost it was being out performed, that was the reason for the original attempted change. So this is a admitted issue CCP has seen and tried to address. Being that it hasnt been changed, we still have the issue of the underpowered deimos.
the fix that most people see is the movement of 6th high slot to 4th mid slot and giving a slight PG boost to accomidate a cap booster, actually the stat changed to the original attempted boost werent as bad as everyone thought, with the loss of the MWD cap boost you got a cap hit, but it had extra cap to compensate for this and a new armor rep bonus.
the ship needs 4 mid slots and 5 high slots, and a little more PG and then it will be fine, will be able to perform its task better than a zealot and everyone will be happy
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~Welcome to the internet, where the men are men, the women are men, and the children are FBI agents~ |
Garmon
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Posted - 2008.03.21 18:36:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Durethia
Originally by: 0raven0
The devs didn't think it needed a boost, they though that its slot layout was wrong. The devs once again tried to fix something that wasn't broken. We told them they were wrong so they stopped from trying to "fix" it and realized its already fine.
QFT
This, the deimos is fine as it is. If you cant fly it properly, blame your self [this isnt for the op, but other posters]
__________________________________
Garmonation - Rupture fun video
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2008.03.21 18:57:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Poba
Edited by: Poba on 21/03/2008 17:58:43
well for those of u that say its fine, the devs have said that after the zealot boost it was being out performed, that was the reason for the original attempted change. So this is a admitted issue CCP has seen and tried to address. Being that it hasnt been changed, we still have the issue of the underpowered deimos.
the fix that most people see is the movement of 6th high slot to 4th mid slot and giving a slight PG boost to accomidate a cap booster, actually the stat changed to the original attempted boost werent as bad as everyone thought, with the loss of the MWD cap boost you got a cap hit, but it had extra cap to compensate for this and a new armor rep bonus.
the ship needs 4 mid slots and 5 high slots, and a little more PG and then it will be fine, will be able to perform its task better than a zealot and everyone will be happy
outperformed how?
in which situations?
in what environment?
the devs said that the deimos as it was was constantly losing to the zealot in 1vs1 with whatever setups the ship had.
now I ask of you to see what is wrong with such statement, taking into consideration the role of the deimos.
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Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards |
Aero089
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Posted - 2008.03.22 05:22:00 -
[53]
Originally by: TimMc
Deimos is fine. Only useful bonus would be a 10% bonus to armour HP, but that bonus as well as resistance bonus is reserved for Amarr. Gallente get bonus to repair amount.
Uhh, sorry what were you saying again? I was too busy looking at my brand new spankin' Phobos.
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