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Gary Goat TALON'S GRIP Green Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.18 23:06:00 - [1] So the devs have already stated that the deimos is in need of a boost and did infact even atempt to boost it. Although the changes proposed were eventually scrapped due to player outcries (myself included) do you devs still think it is in need of a boost? If so lets take a closer look at what this ships role is. It has 2 damage bonuses and a mwd bonus to help you gete into blaster range with a falloff bonus thrown in for good messure. From the ground up we can clearly see it was designed to get in close and deal lots of damage so instead of changing its role by giving it somthing like an armor repair amount bonus why dont we just help it along with its current role? The ingredients for a successful blaster assault would be enough speed to get into range, enough tank to survive that and enough damage to kill your enemy before they kill you. So to boost the deimos we need to look at either: Speed Tank Damage Speed Well we have a MWD bonus and you can normally get into range without much trouble unless you're dealing with a nanofreak. No real problem there. Tank Gallente ships have always been pretty good tankers so this is an area we can look at. The easiest and most effective way would be to increase its armor hp. This doesnt force you to fit an armor rep but if you want too, it still helps as you get more rep cycles in before you die. Most people passivly tank there deimos for pvp but i'm guessing NPCers like to have a repper on board. We could also give it better resistances instead of more armor but this is more of an amarr trait and isnt really in line with gallente ships. Swaping a bonus for a repair amount bonus is out of the question imo. Its cap intensive, forces you to downgrade guns to fit the damn rep and if you dont fit the rep, you've just got the old unboosted rax. Damage Only real options here would be to either increase the damage bonus to 7.5% or give it an extra turret slot and enough pg/cpu to fit the 6th hi. This would take it into the realms of Command ship damage and would probably make it too overpowered. It already does more dps then any other HAC as it is. Personally i'd give it more armor and leave the rest as it is.
Waxau The Fated Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.03.18 23:10:00 - [2] ......... Im sorry mate, but the deimos is fine. You cant be pure nano, however the ishtar solves that. You can be full tank if you want. But you lack the dps then. As with all ships. And you have huge damage already... but YEAH! Lets boost a gank ship, with MORE damage!
Grimpak Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.18 23:14:00 - [3] Originally by: Waxau ......... Im sorry mate, but the deimos is fine. You cant be pure nano, however the ishtar solves that. You can be full tank if you want. But you lack the dps then. As with all ships. And you have huge damage already... but YEAH! Lets boost a gank ship, with MORE damage! yeah, give it a RoF bonus! --- Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards
Mr Ignitious R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.18 23:30:00 - [4] MOAR dmg wasn't his only only idea, the more respectible/sane idea here is the armor amount bonus, which probably would be too bad. as is though, its not TOO bad, but a little extra armor may not hurt.
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.18 23:40:00 - [5] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 18/03/2008 23:41:16 I'm 100% a fan of a ROF bonus too. I promise it wouldn't be OP. :P -Liang Ed: And yes, I read the OP and know he was suggesting an armor amount boost (presumably static). -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.
Grimpak Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.19 00:07:00 - [6] Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 18/03/2008 23:41:16 I'm 100% a fan of a ROF bonus too. I promise it wouldn't be OP. :P -Liang Ed: And yes, I read the OP and know he was suggesting an armor amount boost (presumably static). well, tbh the RoF would make the deimos into a very, very, very nasty beast. the downside however would be that the weak cap of the ship would be even more stressed out. ...but I'm cool with it tbh --- Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards
Gary Goat TALON'S GRIP Green Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.19 13:33:00 - [7] Lol a ROF bonus would be pretty cool but which bonus would you swap for the rof one?
Taguchi Hiroko Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.03.19 14:20:00 - [8] Deimos is a pretty mediocre HAC. Bit more useful than the Eagle, but that's about it. Can't beat a Zealot before its boost, now a Zealot pwn's Deimos any time. How to boost it? Move the high to the mid so it can fit an injector, adjust the pg accordingly. Everyone has been suggesting this all along, why all the discussion.
Keisern Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2008.03.19 14:20:00 - [9] Duh, ofcourse a RoF bonus would be crazy, this ship deals enough damage as it is. A _slight_ speed boost could do the trick, as it would help the deimos with it's "dps tank". I do, however, fall on the armor bonus. As someone said, resistances are more along the amarr lines, but how about swapping the optimal bonus for a 7,5% armor bonus per level?
Sally Sheep Aliastra	Posted - 2008.03.19 14:32:00 - [10] Originally by: Keisern I do, however, fall on the armor bonus. As someone said, resistances are more along the amarr lines, but how about swapping the optimal bonus for a 7,5% armor bonus per level? I'm against swaping out any bonus to be honest. They are fine as they are, just give it more base armor!
Miranda Ceres Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.19 15:37:00 - [11] Give it an extra turret hardpoint instead of the utility high slot.
TimMc Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.03.19 15:43:00 - [12] Deimos is fine. Only useful bonus would be a 10% bonus to armour HP, but that bonus as well as resistance bonus is reserved for Amarr. Gallente get bonus to repair amount.
Mithrantir Ob'lontra Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.03.19 15:43:00 - [13] Originally by: Keisern Duh, ofcourse a RoF bonus would be crazy, this ship deals enough damage as it is. A _slight_ speed boost could do the trick, as it would help the deimos with it's "dps tank". I do, however, fall on the armor bonus. As someone said, resistances are more along the amarr lines, but how about swapping the optimal bonus for a 7,5% armor bonus per level? Which optimal bonus are you talking about? It has a falloff bonus, which is useful at some situations. I can live without that, if they make Deimos more agile and a little faster only. ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it.
Keisern Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2008.03.19 15:52:00 - [14] Err yeah, the falloff bonus.
Kunming T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core	Posted - 2008.03.19 15:54:00 - [15] Originally by: Taguchi Hiroko Deimos is a pretty mediocre HAC. Bit more useful than the Eagle, but that's about it. Can't beat a Zealot before its boost, now a Zealot pwn's Deimos any time. How to boost it? Move the high to the mid so it can fit an injector, adjust the pg accordingly. Everyone has been suggesting this all along, why all the discussion. QFT!! Stop trying to change the bonus, its bonus' fit its roles nicely. Change that damn hi slot to a mid and give it a bit more PG. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Annowyn Clan'Destine	Posted - 2008.03.19 15:56:00 - [16] No. Just no. I do not think you have thought out your proposed changes mate. It already has crazy damage potential, particularly when compared to the other races HACs...even when compared to minnie BSes.
Arazel Chainfire United System's Commonwealth	Posted - 2008.03.19 19:07:00 - [17] Originally by: Annowyn No. Just no. I do not think you have thought out your proposed changes mate. It already has crazy damage potential, particularly when compared to the other races HACs...even when compared to minnie BSes. Err... ok people... he wasn't saying that it needed a boost. He was pointing out areas too boost if CCP felt that a boost was necessary. Which btw they apparently do because of the attempted change to the demios for the boost patch (change mwd bonus to armor rep bonus and switch a low to a mid, as well as adding more base cap). Personally, I really don't see that it is need of a boost - however, apparently CCP does, and I agree that the bonuses that he proposed would be much better than the idea proposed by CCP. That being said... I personally think that the best way to boost it would be to just give it more cap, or drop the utility high to a med, and add enough PG to support a booster (and also increasing the cargohold size). -Arazel Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Mutual Incomprehension is one of the Four Horsemen of most internet arguments, I guess, along with Unfettered Hostility, Overwhelming Vagueness, and Lack of Evidence.
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.03.19 19:24:00 - [18] uhhhhmmmmm - while we're on the topic of boosting powerful ships. If you give the Deimos (one of the most powerful gank ships in game) more armor, logic states that the Drake one of the most tanked out ships in game to get more DPS - I propose a 'modest' 10% across the board damage boost for missiles on a Drake. Or maybe teh Eagle should get a 6th turret for more damage, since it can tank pretty decently... Or..... You could realize a ship has to sacrifice something to specialize and excel at its role. You guys want a Deimos to: Gank - check (guns and drone bay) Tackle - check (MWD bonus + slot arrangement) and Tank?! C'mon... __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Jasai Kameron Hakata Group Blade.	Posted - 2008.03.19 19:45:00 - [19] For heaven's sake people, the OP expressly said that increasing the damage would make it overpowered. Read his post before putting words in his mouth. Originally by: TimMc Deimos is fine. Only useful bonus would be a 10% bonus to armour HP, but that bonus as well as resistance bonus is reserved for Amarr. Gallente get bonus to repair amount. Amarr have reserved the armor hp bonus? Have they written their name on the bottom? How many Amarr ships actually have this bonus, which is reserved for them? I can only think of one, personally, but I don't fly Amarr that much. Still I can't see how it's fair they get two bonuses reserved for them and Gallente only get one. To be quite honest, if the armor HP is the right bonus for the Deimos, I see no reason not to give it that bonus. Originally by: Omarvelous You guys want a Deimos to: Gank - check (guns and drone bay) Tackle - check (MWD bonus + slot arrangement) and Tank?! C'mon... You've got a problem here. The problem is using one word to mean two different things. The Deimos is never going to "tank" in the way that you mean. Not in any sensible pvp setup, in any case. All it can do is die slowly. That's what an armor hp bonus allows it to do. It's not the same as a shield booster or massive passive regen. Originally by: Omarvelous If you give the Deimos (one of the most powerful gank ships in game) more armor, logic states that the Drake one of the most tanked out ships in game to get more DPS Logic would only dictate this if you took as a presumption: "everything in the game is perfectly balanced already and therefore increasing one ship of any type, must mean that every other ship in the entire game, even if they are of completely different classes, has to be increased as well". The devs obviously thought the Deimos was underpowered and looked at a way to improve it. So clearly their logic is slightly different.
Mithrantir Ob'lontra Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.03.19 19:50:00 - [20] Edited by: Mithrantir Ob''lontra on 19/03/2008 19:52:09 Originally by: Omarvelous uhhhhmmmmm - while we're on the topic of boosting powerful ships. If you give the Deimos (one of the most powerful gank ships in game) more armor, logic states that the Drake one of the most tanked out ships in game to get more DPS - I propose a 'modest' 10% across the board damage boost for missiles on a Drake. Or maybe teh Eagle should get a 6th turret for more damage, since it can tank pretty decently... Or..... You could realize a ship has to sacrifice something to specialize and excel at its role. You guys want a Deimos to: Gank - check (guns and drone bay) Tackle - check (MWD bonus + slot arrangement) and Tank?! C'mon... I would like to ask you what is the MWD bonus you are talking about (and put it in the tackle category you made). I'm quite certain you don't know or at least haven't understood what is that bonus and where it helps. ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it.
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:00:00 - [21] Originally by: Jasai Kameron The devs obviously thought the Deimos was underpowered and looked at a way to improve it. So clearly their logic is slightly different. I wasn't being serious about the Drake comparison - just meant to illustrate that I think the gank ship is balanced by having a relatively weak tank. Just look at how you have to fit ships in order to fit top tier weapons to get maximimum damage out of your ship - not to mention dedicate your low slots which could have been used for tanking to do all out gank. I feel the Deimos is the personification of that less tank for more gank trade-off. Asking to improve the ship's tank while maintaining its impressive gank - well might offset that balance. Its like a nano-Cerb asking for more low slots to have a better speed tank, without concern for the balance issue of missile boats needing to go slowest to balance their trackless weapons. Or an ECM pilot wanting tanking bonuses and tanking slots. I don't have a problem with the Deimos being a gank ship - its a great role, but it needs to have the risk of being blown up fairly easily. If it can survive too well - why would a pvp combat pilot fly anything else? Why have snipers - when the Deimos could survive MWDing to them and blowing them up? __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:03:00 - [22] Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra Edited by: Mithrantir Ob''lontra on 19/03/2008 19:52:09 Originally by: Omarvelous uhhhhmmmmm - while we're on the topic of boosting powerful ships. If you give the Deimos (one of the most powerful gank ships in game) more armor, logic states that the Drake one of the most tanked out ships in game to get more DPS - I propose a 'modest' 10% across the board damage boost for missiles on a Drake. Or maybe teh Eagle should get a 6th turret for more damage, since it can tank pretty decently... Or..... You could realize a ship has to sacrifice something to specialize and excel at its role. You guys want a Deimos to: Gank - check (guns and drone bay) Tackle - check (MWD bonus + slot arrangement) and Tank?! C'mon... I would like to ask you what is the MWD bonus you are talking about (and put it in the tackle category you made). I'm quite certain you don't know or at least haven't understood what is that bonus and where it helps. You can sustain a MWD better than any other ship, thereby getting to your target to tackle it, and have enough cap after you get into range, to keep the point and web and still fire all your guns. That's why I included it as a tackle bonus. __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Trevor Warps Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:03:00 - [23] Edited by: Trevor Warps on 19/03/2008 20:04:55 I've poped my share of vagabond with my deimos. The only deimos I have lost 1 vs 1 is on an arranged duel (vs another deimos, on TQ) ... but thats because i pick my targets, no choice ... The ship have veeery hard time to beat a well fitted BC, which is a bit odd I think as many other hacs can do that no probs. The BC have just too much tank and firepower for the Deimos to live thru that. Well i think some 1600mm plated deimos can do that ... but thats about it. I would nt be agaisnt a bit more base armor hp. It speed is fine, faster that the T1 version now, and aint supposed to be an interceptor on cruiser hull. I like it as is tbh ... but i would like to be able to go in web range of BCs and being able to win without a very very very specific setup, which is not usesfull in most other situations (1600mm gimps speed alot).
Tydraad Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:08:00 - [24] Maybe we could drop a highslot for an additional low and give it a traditional gallente armor rep amount bonus.
Lt Angus the united Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:29:00 - [25] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra Edited by: Mithrantir Ob''lontra on 19/03/2008 19:52:09 Originally by: Omarvelous uhhhhmmmmm - while we're on the topic of boosting powerful ships. If you give the Deimos (one of the most powerful gank ships in game) more armor, logic states that the Drake one of the most tanked out ships in game to get more DPS - I propose a 'modest' 10% across the board damage boost for missiles on a Drake. Or maybe teh Eagle should get a 6th turret for more damage, since it can tank pretty decently... Or..... You could realize a ship has to sacrifice something to specialize and excel at its role. You guys want a Deimos to: Gank - check (guns and drone bay) Tackle - check (MWD bonus + slot arrangement) and Tank?! C'mon... I would like to ask you what is the MWD bonus you are talking about (and put it in the tackle category you made). I'm quite certain you don't know or at least haven't understood what is that bonus and where it helps. You can sustain a MWD better than any other ship, thereby getting to your target to tackle it, and have enough cap after you get into range, to keep the point and web and still fire all your guns. That's why I included it as a tackle bonus. Deimos sustaining mwd better then any other ship?? It doesnt even have room for a cap booster, if u run more than 1 mwd cycle you wont have enouth cap to finish firing, the list of ships a deimos can kill before dieing is rather short, glass cannons are seriously over-rated Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers
Angelic Eviaran University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:30:00 - [26] Or maybe deimos is just fine. Just like the tempest is.
Lobo Noturno BGG Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:38:00 - [27] If the Deimos needs a boost to get even with the Zealot, the only thing it needs is to last a little bit while longer, while doing the same DPS it does now. The Armor HP bonus would be perfect for it... Lobo ps. A close second would be more speed/agility as base. The deimos is supposed to close in to attack, what presuppose speed to do so...
Angelic Eviaran University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:41:00 - [28] Originally by: Lobo Noturno If the Deimos needs a boost to get even with the Zealot, the only thing it needs is to last a little bit while longer, while doing the same DPS it does now. The Armor HP bonus would be perfect for it... Lobo ps. A close second would be more speed/agility as base. The deimos is supposed to close in to attack, what presuppose speed to do so... We dont want deimos to be the fastest of all hacs do we? Because if deimos can catch any hac it will also kill any hac. Lets not friggin forget it has a 50m3 drone bay. There is nothing wrong with deimos. Go play the damn game eft warriors.
Grimpak Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:48:00 - [29] people that say that the deimos is not good as it is, must think that the deimos is used in solo situations. --- Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:56:00 - [30] Originally by: Grimpak people that say that the deimos is not good as it is, must think that the deimos is used in solo situations. And that's exactly (group fights) where this ship would become overpowered with more tank... __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Mithrantir Ob'lontra Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:56:00 - [31] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra I would like to ask you what is the MWD bonus you are talking about (and put it in the tackle category you made). I'm quite certain you don't know or at least haven't understood what is that bonus and where it helps. You can sustain a MWD better than any other ship, thereby getting to your target to tackle it, and have enough cap after you get into range, to keep the point and web and still fire all your guns. That's why I included it as a tackle bonus. The bonus of Deimos (and Thorax) is as can be seen in the info screen is: 5% less penalty to max capacitor capacity for Microwarpdrive usage per level Which basically means that in level 5 of Cruiser you get no penalty to the capacitor capacity. As you know fitting a MWD takes off 25% of your capacitor capacity. Even when you are not using the MWD. It doesn't mean that we get a 5% per level less energy consumption for MWD usage. So Deimos is in fact bleeding the same as every other ship when it uses it's MWD, which means less energy to fire our blasters (which do eat a lot of capacitor energy) and less capacitor for using an Armor Repairer (if a pilot chooses to put one). You can understand now why many don't use armor repairers on their Deimos. Basically this bonus can be added to survivability features of Deimos, since either it helps with the guns keep firing, or in case of a tank for keeping a MAR running a little longer. ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it.
RisingDragon Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.19 22:45:00 - [32] Edited by: RisingDragon on 19/03/2008 22:46:02 Im in two minds on this, i loved CCP's proposed changes but at the same time its MWD bonus makes it unique. Howver dropping that 6th high and giving it a 4th mid would do it a world of favours, heres why; The biggest problem with the deimos is its definite role, it just doesnt work as a nano hac! ATM hacs are onle seen to be used for nanofaggotry - why use a deimos when an ishtar can speed tank, dictate range, tackle and do nearly as much damage with its drones! Even then, a non nano'd ishtar can tank a deimos' damage and kill it. The reason being - the deimos cant cap inject and tackle like the ishtar (which also does a bit too much damage imho!). Give the deimos its 4th mid a little bit more pg, then grease that nerf bat and sort out those flaming nanofags! Problem solved!
Wardeneo BLL Wise Guys Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.03.20 01:41:00 - [33] Originally by: Taguchi Hiroko Deimos is a pretty mediocre HAC. Bit more useful than the Eagle, but that's about it. Can't beat a Zealot before its boost, now a Zealot pwn's Deimos any time. How to boost it? Move the high to the mid so it can fit an injector, adjust the pg accordingly. Everyone has been suggesting this all along, why all the discussion. signed/ If brute force doesn't work..... your not using enough :)
M1AU Rheintal Underground Rising	Posted - 2008.03.20 01:58:00 - [34] I guess more armor hp is a good way to simply buff the deimos defense capabilities. However, I will refer to the MWD bonus in this post In it's current state, the MWD capacitor penalty reduction on both the deimos and thorax isn't that effective in some situations, because it only applies to a single module and the module itself still needs it's full cap to get activated. Of course Microwarpdrives are used on almost every ship nowadays, espacially in pvp engagements, but still I would like to see a bonus for Microwarpdrives AND Afterburners. As I guess a speed bonus on thouse two ships would be just overpowerd, I personally would fix this with another capacitor based propulsation bonus: "10% reduction in Microwarpdrive and Afterburner activation cost per Gallente cruiser Level." IMO this bonus could be more useful in some/most situations for MWD and AB users, but of course that depends. The base capacitor of the deimos and thorax maybe needs to be changed too, but that should differ only on a few points to bring it inline with it's current bonus.
Grimpak Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.20 06:18:00 - [35] Originally by: RisingDragon Edited by: RisingDragon on 19/03/2008 22:46:02 Im in two minds on this, i loved CCP's proposed changes but at the same time its MWD bonus makes it unique. Howver dropping that 6th high and giving it a 4th mid would do it a world of favours, heres why; The biggest problem with the deimos is its definite role, it just doesnt work as a nano hac! ATM hacs are onle seen to be used for nanofaggotry - why use a deimos when an ishtar can speed tank, dictate range, tackle and do nearly as much damage with its drones! Even then, a non nano'd ishtar can tank a deimos' damage and kill it. The reason being - the deimos cant cap inject and tackle like the ishtar (which also does a bit too much damage imho!). Give the deimos its 4th mid a little bit more pg, then grease that nerf bat and sort out those flaming nanofags! Problem solved! definite role? extreme short range fire support isn't a role? while something should be done to the 6th high slot, the deimos is not a solo machine. it works well in gangs and people still try to shovel it in solo situations. also, considering how I use the deimos, the 4th mid would only be good for me to slap a sensor booster, since 2 minutes of cap with all modules active is all that I need usually (and I don't need the mwd on at all times). --- Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards
Theron Gyrow Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.03.20 07:17:00 - [36] The one problem with Deimos is that its maneuverability is not that great, and adding one low slot so that one could fit an istab would not be used for an istab. So, my suggestion for Deimos boost would be to drop the utility high slot and reduce the agility modifier from 0.65 to 0.4 or something like that. Now that I think about it, that would be very good for Megathron, too. Drop one high, reduce agility mod... -- Gradient forum
Alak D'bor Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.20 09:48:00 - [37] OFF TOPIC
Durethia Black Plague. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.20 17:30:00 - [38] Edited by: Durethia on 20/03/2008 17:30:08 The only change I would enjoy would be for the utility hi-slot to become a sixth turret mount. I think that would be very nice for a gank ship.
0raven0 Point-Zero SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.20 17:33:00 - [39] The devs didn't think it needed a boost, they though that its slot layout was wrong. The devs once again tried to fix something that wasn't broken. We told them they were wrong so they stopped from trying to "fix" it and realized its already fine. ------ Quote: tuxford: AT LEAST ITS SPEELED CORRECTLY tuxford: spelled* Oveur: rofl
Durethia Black Plague. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.20 17:33:00 - [40] Originally by: 0raven0 The devs didn't think it needed a boost, they though that its slot layout was wrong. The devs once again tried to fix something that wasn't broken. We told them they were wrong so they stopped from trying to "fix" it and realized its already fine. QFT
Euriti SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.03.20 17:40:00 - [41] Give it another mid or drop a hi for a mid. Then add some PG so you can fit a cap booster. _______________________________________________________________________________ Reducing lag, one carebear at a time.
Lobo Noturno BGG Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.03.20 18:32:00 - [42] Angelic, Since you cannot read very well, i will write again with bigger letters... IF THE DEIMOS NEEDS A BUFF TO MATCH THE ZEALOT... If you believe it already is fine, then sure, nothing needs to change. If others believe the Zealot and Deimos on a one-to-one should be a tie, then the Deimos needs to last longer or reach DMG range to the Zealot faster. What we're trying to find here is a change that would not change its role and yet would not make it overpowered. No one wants the deimos to be the fastest HAC, although being the second fastest would make sense...(since it has the absolutely worst dmg range of all hacs) Perhaps just giving it more agility instead of a speed buff.(if it aligns and accelerates faster, it will reach dmg range faster just the same...) Lobo ps. I think an armor buff could make it just perfect for this Zealot engagement, but it has to be very well balanced to account for the fleet effects...
Dr Fighter White Moon Knights	Posted - 2008.03.20 18:34:00 - [43] Originally by: TimMc Deimos is fine. Only useful bonus would be a 10% bonus to armour HP, but that bonus as well as resistance bonus is reserved for Amarr. Gallente get bonus to repair amount. but your getting more bonuses shared between races now, and IMO the armor HP bonus would be just right.... enough cap and speed to MWD in and fire and enough HP to last to kill stuff. with the fitting the way they are atm ofc
Annowyn Clan'Destine	Posted - 2008.03.20 18:45:00 - [44] Originally by: Durethia Edited by: Durethia on 20/03/2008 17:30:08 The only change I would enjoy would be for the utility hi-slot to become a sixth turret mount. I think that would be very nice for a gank ship. Are ypou serious?
Grimpak Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.21 06:44:00 - [45] Originally by: Annowyn Originally by: Durethia Edited by: Durethia on 20/03/2008 17:30:08 The only change I would enjoy would be for the utility hi-slot to become a sixth turret mount. I think that would be very nice for a gank ship. Are ypou serious? "Oh hai thar. here's my 800DPS+ ship with 0 tank." --- Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.21 06:46:00 - [46] Originally by: Grimpak "Oh hai thar. here's my 800DPS+ ship with 0 tank." My Falcon says that's ok. :p -Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.
Damned Force Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.21 08:00:00 - [47] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 18/03/2008 23:41:16 I'm 100% a fan of a ROF bonus too. I promise it wouldn't be OP. :P -Liang Ed: And yes, I read the OP and know he was suggesting an armor amount boost (presumably static). well, tbh the RoF would make the deimos into a very, very, very nasty beast. the downside however would be that the weak cap of the ship would be even more stressed out. ...but I'm cool with it tbh yes, why offer cap for more damage? lets give +100% damage as role bonus and take away 2 turret slots :) ps: the demios dont need any change
Grimpak Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.21 10:43:00 - [48] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Grimpak "Oh hai thar. here's my 800DPS+ ship with 0 tank." My Falcon says that's ok. :p -Liang my falcon and my rook says the same thing --- Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards
Willy Joe	Posted - 2008.03.21 11:25:00 - [49] Originally by: RisingDragon Edited by: RisingDragon on 19/03/2008 22:46:02 Im in two minds on this, i loved CCP's proposed changes but at the same time its MWD bonus makes it unique. Howver dropping that 6th high and giving it a 4th mid would do it a world of favours, heres why; The biggest problem with the deimos is its definite role, it just doesnt work as a nano hac! ATM hacs are onle seen to be used for nanofaggotry - why use a deimos when an ishtar can speed tank, dictate range, tackle and do nearly as much damage with its drones! Even then, a non nano'd ishtar can tank a deimos' damage and kill it. The reason being - the deimos cant cap inject and tackle like the ishtar (which also does a bit too much damage imho!). Give the deimos its 4th mid a little bit more pg, then grease that nerf bat and sort out those flaming nanofags! Problem solved! You , my friend, are hilarious. The Ishtar does nowhere the damage of the Deimos. IIRC it gets up to 450 dps out of ogres II - where the Deimos is able to easily reach 750 dps in a gank fit with the ability to overload it's guns for another 100 dps or so( dps of 5 hammerhead IIs included ) or go down to about 600 dps with ecm drones fitted. Add the fact Deimos' damage source cannot be taken down unlike the drones and it is clear that for the sole purpose of a gang damage dealer the Deimos is MUCH better than the Ishtar. Only place the Ishtar is better is solo or nano gangs.
Poba	Posted - 2008.03.21 17:58:00 - [50] Edited by: Poba on 21/03/2008 17:58:43 well for those of u that say its fine, the devs have said that after the zealot boost it was being out performed, that was the reason for the original attempted change. So this is a admitted issue CCP has seen and tried to address. Being that it hasnt been changed, we still have the issue of the underpowered deimos. the fix that most people see is the movement of 6th high slot to 4th mid slot and giving a slight PG boost to accomidate a cap booster, actually the stat changed to the original attempted boost werent as bad as everyone thought, with the loss of the MWD cap boost you got a cap hit, but it had extra cap to compensate for this and a new armor rep bonus. the ship needs 4 mid slots and 5 high slots, and a little more PG and then it will be fine, will be able to perform its task better than a zealot and everyone will be happy Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. ~Welcome to the internet, where the men are men, the women are men, and the children are FBI agents~
Garmon	Posted - 2008.03.21 18:36:00 - [51] Originally by: Durethia Originally by: 0raven0 The devs didn't think it needed a boost, they though that its slot layout was wrong. The devs once again tried to fix something that wasn't broken. We told them they were wrong so they stopped from trying to "fix" it and realized its already fine. QFT This, the deimos is fine as it is. If you cant fly it properly, blame your self [this isnt for the op, but other posters] __________________________________ Garmonation - Rupture fun video
Grimpak	Posted - 2008.03.21 18:57:00 - [52] Originally by: Poba Edited by: Poba on 21/03/2008 17:58:43 well for those of u that say its fine, the devs have said that after the zealot boost it was being out performed, that was the reason for the original attempted change. So this is a admitted issue CCP has seen and tried to address. Being that it hasnt been changed, we still have the issue of the underpowered deimos. the fix that most people see is the movement of 6th high slot to 4th mid slot and giving a slight PG boost to accomidate a cap booster, actually the stat changed to the original attempted boost werent as bad as everyone thought, with the loss of the MWD cap boost you got a cap hit, but it had extra cap to compensate for this and a new armor rep bonus. the ship needs 4 mid slots and 5 high slots, and a little more PG and then it will be fine, will be able to perform its task better than a zealot and everyone will be happy outperformed how? in which situations? in what environment? the devs said that the deimos as it was was constantly losing to the zealot in 1vs1 with whatever setups the ship had. now I ask of you to see what is wrong with such statement, taking into consideration the role of the deimos. --- Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards
Aero089	Posted - 2008.03.22 05:22:00 - [53] Originally by: TimMc Deimos is fine. Only useful bonus would be a 10% bonus to armour HP, but that bonus as well as resistance bonus is reserved for Amarr. Gallente get bonus to repair amount. Uhh, sorry what were you saying again? I was too busy looking at my brand new spankin' Phobos. --- Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

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