Originally by: Tsanse Kinske

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I don't know how crystal damage works though, so I can't say. The db says they have a volatility and crystal damage of 1, and "volatility damage" of .00025. Which sort of implies 4000 shots, but that doesn't sound right.

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Originally by: Tsanse Kinske

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So unless I'm dinking the math, faction crystals are more cost effective than faction ammos by about a factor of five.

Sounds fine to me.

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Originally by: Tsanse Kinske

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So unless I'm dinking the math, faction crystals are more cost effective than faction ammos by about a factor of five.

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Originally by: Synd
Just to clarify, ALL crystals take dmg now... slowly, but obviously not slowly enuf.
Theres also no easy way for us to check on the status of our crystals if they are in the turrets... it would help if like ammo we say some kinda countdown or percentage of dmg left on the turrets icon.[/quote

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You are not clarifying anything.
T1 crystals don't break
Faction crystals break slowly
Has always been that way... not since last patch.

You just always been making the wrong assumption that faction crystals = T1

Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra

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Originally by: Angelic Eviaran

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And stop that idiocy about the millions you carry in ammunition. If you carry t1 and costs millions then i guess someone ripped you off, if you carry t2 or faction you can take comfort in the fact that for all other races t2 or faction costs effectively a million (less but not by much) for a single battle.

Or are you under the impression that t2 and faction ammo for the other races is cheaper?

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It is. For T2 crystals, it's basically 2000 isk per shot fired (crystal lasts for 1000 shots, cost 2m+ each) for large crystals. Not only that, you have to carry all of it around all the time, so an Amarr ship with T2 crystals carries one set in guns and one set for spares, so around 28m in ammo *all the time*. Actually, it's usually more than that because you may carry a set of close range and long range. It's easy to have over the cost of a BC in your cargo hold, just in crystals.

Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Wait, you people are complaining about being Amarr right now, at the dawn of Amarr/Caldari online?



-Liang

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners.

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Originally by: Borasao

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Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra

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Originally by: Angelic Eviaran

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And stop that idiocy about the millions you carry in ammunition. If you carry t1 and costs millions then i guess someone ripped you off, if you carry t2 or faction you can take comfort in the fact that for all other races t2 or faction costs effectively a million (less but not by much) for a single battle.

Or are you under the impression that t2 and faction ammo for the other races is cheaper?

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It is. For T2 crystals, it's basically 2000 isk per shot fired (crystal lasts for 1000 shots, cost 2m+ each) for large crystals. Not only that, you have to carry all of it around all the time, so an Amarr ship with T2 crystals carries one set in guns and one set for spares, so around 28m in ammo *all the time*. Actually, it's usually more than that because you may carry a set of close range and long range. It's easy to have over the cost of a BC in your cargo hold, just in crystals.

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How much do you think Faction BS ammo for other races costs?

CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

Originally by: Borasao

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Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra

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And stop that idiocy about the millions you carry in ammunition. If you carry t1 and costs millions then i guess someone ripped you off, if you carry t2 or faction you can take comfort in the fact that for all other races t2 or faction costs effectively a million (less but not by much) for a single battle.

Or are you under the impression that t2 and faction ammo for the other races is cheaper?

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It is. For T2 crystals, it's basically 2000 isk per shot fired (crystal lasts for 1000 shots, cost 2m+ each) for large crystals. Not only that, you have to carry all of it around all the time, so an Amarr ship with T2 crystals carries one set in guns and one set for spares, so around 28m in ammo *all the time*. Actually, it's usually more than that because you may carry a set of close range and long range. It's easy to have over the cost of a BC in your cargo hold, just in crystals.

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Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra

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Basically can you please be quiet?

You moan a lot and without logic.
As people said before me t2 and faction crystals always have taken damage (i have an Amarr Navy crystal as a trophy from a pirate to show that. I can't recycle it or sell it).

And stop that idiocy about the millions you carry in ammunition. If you carry t1 and costs millions then i guess someone ripped you off, if you carry t2 or faction you can take comfort in the fact that for all other races t2 or faction costs effectively a million (less but not by much) for a single battle.

Or are you under the impression that t2 and faction ammo for the other races is cheaper?

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Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra

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Edited by: Mithrantir Ob''lontra on 19/03/2008 19:55:59

Originally by: Borasao

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It is. For T2 crystals, it's basically 2000 isk per shot fired (crystal lasts for 1000 shots, cost 2m+ each) for large crystals. Not only that, you have to carry all of it around all the time, so an Amarr ship with T2 crystals carries one set in guns and one set for spares, so around 28m in ammo *all the time*. Actually, it's usually more than that because you may carry a set of close range and long range. It's easy to have over the cost of a BC in your cargo hold, just in crystals.

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Thanks for the correction. Never had (or planning to) fly an amarrian ship.
But still this is compensated partially by the minimal cargo space crystals take over i guess. As for the sets i think that everyone is carrying varying range ammo in the cargo. Well i do at least.

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Originally by: Wet Ferret

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He's completely wrong, though. It's less than 100 isk per shot, and that's for the large crystals. Compared that to, say, faction heavy missiles which cost 600 isk each. Cruises obviously cost a bit more. So a full rack of crystals plus one set of short range costs slightly more than one stack of only one type of missile, otherwise it's costing less.

Oh yeah and I go through a stack of CN heavies in two hours.

Edit: doh, I misread. Well, Amarr still have it good when it comes to faction ammo.

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Originally by: Angelic Eviaran

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We are talking pvp dude. The amount amarr pvp ships have in ammo value in the cargo is much higher then other races.

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Originally by: Wet Ferret

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Originally by: Angelic Eviaran

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We are talking pvp dude. The amount amarr pvp ships have in ammo value in the cargo is much higher then other races.

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That depends. A raven for example will go into a combat with a couple thousand of each damage type (as opposed to one stack of one type). That is going to cost a comparable amount to faction crystals.

T2 crystals are more expensive, but for comparisons sake they are more useful. Nobody really uses T2 missiles aside from Javelins or precision lights, both of which are very situational.

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Originally by: Wet Ferret

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Edited by: Wet Ferret on 19/03/2008 20:18:10
He's completely wrong, though. It's less than 100 isk per shot, and that's for the large crystals. Compared that to, say, faction heavy missiles which cost 600 isk each. Cruises obviously cost a bit more. So a full rack of crystals plus one set of short range costs slightly more than one stack of only one type of missile, otherwise it's costing less.

Oh yeah and I go through a stack of CN heavies in two hours.

Edit: doh, I misread. Well, Amarr still have it good when it comes to faction ammo.

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Originally by: Angelic Eviaran

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Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra

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Basically can you please be quiet?

You moan a lot and without logic.
As people said before me t2 and faction crystals always have taken damage (i have an Amarr Navy crystal as a trophy from a pirate to show that. I can't recycle it or sell it).

And stop that idiocy about the millions you carry in ammunition. If you carry t1 and costs millions then i guess someone ripped you off, if you carry t2 or faction you can take comfort in the fact that for all other races t2 or faction costs effectively a million (less but not by much) for a single battle.

Or are you under the impression that t2 and faction ammo for the other races is cheaper?

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Basically you dont know what the hell youre talking about. Are you seriously claiming that other races carry as much ammo value as amarr ships into pvp? I know what faction ammo costs for my khanid ships. Its not much 1-2 mill, compare that with 10 million and youll understand the difference. Youre clueless.

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Originally by: 0raven0

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Faction crystals have always taken damage, for years.

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Originally by: Borasao

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It is. For T2 crystals, it's basically 2000 isk per shot fired (crystal lasts for 1000 shots, cost 2m+ each) for large crystals. Not only that, you have to carry all of it around all the time, so an Amarr ship with T2 crystals carries one set in guns and one set for spares, so around 28m in ammo *all the time*. Actually, it's usually more than that because you may carry a set of close range and long range. It's easy to have over the cost of a BC in your cargo hold, just in crystals.

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Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel

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Where on earth are you buying your ammo?

Conflagration L - 1 mil per crystal.
Gleam L (not that anyone uses Gleam)- 800k
Scorch L - about 1 mil per crystal.
Aurora L - About 1 mil per crystal.

All of this ends up at about an average of 1000 per shot.
Spike L, Barrage L and the whole other lot ends up at about 800-1000 per shot as well.

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Originally by: Synd

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Originally by: lLonewolf

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wow, they will need to reduce costs then imo if they ***** in a week's use.

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admittedly i do blast a lot of rats.... but 10 Amarr Navy Standards for 3750 lp + 3,750,000$$ and 10 t1 standards.... for a weeks use is just silly...

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Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii

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Podding my own alt in a gatecamp while drunk, he was carrying a hauler full of tech II goods, Oops.

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Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra

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I may be clueless but at least play the game.
Khanid ships with lasers and missiles?

Idiot

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Originally by: Msobe

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This thread delivers. Proof that hordes of FOTM chasers are jumping on the amarr wagon, and man are they getting confused when things don't work the way they've been claiming for years. <laffin>

T2 and faction ammo have always decayed, and clueless people (who don't use them) have always been fond of claiming amarr have no ammo. Our ammo takes up less space, but once you are past your t1 days, thats the extent of the "ammo-less" weapon system advantage.

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Originally by: Msobe

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This thread delivers. Proof that hordes of FOTM chasers are jumping on the amarr wagon, and man are they getting confused when things don't work the way they've been claiming for years. <laffin>

T2 and faction ammo have always decayed, and clueless people (who don't use them) have always been fond of claiming amarr have no ammo. Our ammo takes up less space, but once you are past your t1 days, thats the extent of the "ammo-less" weapon system advantage.

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Um, just to be clear, you do have "no ammo" when dealing with making money - and your ammo that actually costs, costs slightly more than the T1 ammo from other races.

Ammo consumption really is not that big of a deal... and for ninja ratting, it can't be beat. No ammo consumption.

-Liang

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