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Rysis Vyvorant
In Somnis Veritas
Ab Jove Principium
6
   |
Posted - 2012.02.22 22:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am having a small debate about this topic right now.
Scenario.
Gallente frig vs Merlin/Rifter/Punisher or really any other frig. All T1 stuff, no T2 mods etc.
If no drones are allowed to be used in a fight would this put the Gallente frigs at a disadvantage or not? I think so but I am not 100% sure. I was under the assumption that the ability for a Tristan to use a drone was to make up for a stat loss elsewhere.
Thoughts? |
Katie Frost
Asgard.
Exodus.
24
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 23:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Not sure what your question is there.
Why would there be a scenario where a pilot would not be able to use his/her drones? If you have them... use them.
Any ship that can carry drones relies on them to do some DPS/EWAR so not using them would be a disadvantage to anyone and yes, probably more so to dedicated drone-boats.
In a frig-fight, even one drone can make a difference as the tank/DPS of ships that size isn't great. Not using the drone would again disadvantage you but you do have your primary weapons system to rely on for DPS. Use EFT to determine just how much DPS you would drop if you did not use the drone.
Still I am not sure why you would not use the drone if you had it... |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Villore Accords
137
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 00:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Using just one drone sucks in that it applies very little dps for a lot of mouse clicking the other frig pilots don't have to deal with. |
Mekhana
Black Knight Legion
422
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 01:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Unless you set it on aggressive and preemptively get the drone out before the fight is starting. Although setting the drone on aggressive can screw you over too.
Most of the time the micromanagement is not worth it. |
Kush Monster
Big Tobacco
27
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 01:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
are you people stupid? use hotkeys...
Deploy drones, use hotkeys from there on. That's like 1 click.
Much more micromangement piloting manually in a frig fight.
How to make mining enjoyable: An Autocannon, Faction Ammo, Your Mouth
|
drdxie
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
43
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 01:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
With average skills you get 30dps plus from a single T2 hobgoblin. Adding this to a a T1 frig's damage can't be seen as a waste of time, thats like having at least another gun mounted. But hey.. who wants to win at PvP anyway, its all about the fun. |
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Caldari State Capturing
155
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 06:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Even if they waste 1-2 volleys popping the drone, its worth it. |
T0RT0ISE
KRAFTSTOFF GmbH
KRAFTSTOFF
27
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 07:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Depends on the frig but its a silly question unless you are talking about some stupid event that bans drones. |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 09:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Rysis Vyvorant wrote:I am having a small debate about this topic right now.
Scenario.
Gallente frig vs Merlin/Rifter/Punisher or really any other frig. All T1 stuff, no T2 mods etc.
If no drones are allowed to be used in a fight would this put the Gallente frigs at a disadvantage or not? I think so but I am not 100% sure. I was under the assumption that the ability for a Tristan to use a drone was to make up for a stat loss elsewhere.
Thoughts?
Yes the drones matter. If your ships dps comes from having a better drone bay/ bandwidth - then of course you use em.
Your question doesn't make sense unless someone is trying to convince you to fight and not use your drones.
If this is the case it is because they are chicken **** and want you to start at a massive disadvantage.
Personally I would agree to pew pew and tell em you have no drones. But naturally have some in your bay and use them.
There is no honor in eve - lying to win some pvp is ok.
wtf - why won't signatures delete? |
DeBingJos
T.R.I.A.D
200
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 11:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Disregard all the people that say drones are not worth it.
In a frig 1 vs 1 even 1 drone makes a lot of difference.
Frigs don't do a lot of dps and that makes the dps of the single drone stand out even more!
For example: if your frig does 100 dps and 1 drone does 20 dps, the drone does 17% of you dps. That is a lot. Also it does not require reloads or maneurvering and the time your opponent spends on fighting the drone is time you don't have to tank.
My 0.02 isk.
Fix FW ! |
T0RT0ISE
KRAFTSTOFF GmbH
KRAFTSTOFF
27
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 11:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Please show me a PVP worthy 100dps frig where the drone does 20% of that damage.
EDIT: Or whatever other figures you pulled out of your arse. |
DeBingJos
T.R.I.A.D
200
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 12:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
T0RT0ISE wrote:Please show me a PVP worthy 100dps frig where the drone does 20% of that damage.
EDIT: Or whatever other figures you pulled out of your arse.
I did pull the numbers out of my ass, but it appears they are quite correct when I EFT them with my skills.
1 Hobgoblin II in an incursus does 16 damage (and my drone skils and gallente frig skills are not very good.)
3 light ion blaster II without the drone do 87 damage (mind you I don't even have the skill to fit them, with spec the number will be higher)
Edit : 16 of 87 = 18.39%
So yes, I was right. 
Edit 2: Even if the drone does half the damage I claim it is worth using.
Fix FW ! |
Mr Bigwinky
4U Services Inc.
4U Holdings Inc
172
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 13:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
It's all about the Helios, man. That 1 hobgoblin II does 30 DPS!
If we're talking Imicus, you're talking ~ 60 DPS from its 3 drones.
Welcome to EVE online, here's your rubix cube, go F*** yourself GÖÑ |
Salcon Cliff
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 14:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
If it is an EWAR drone, a lucky jam or two can be huge.
Most drones (with good drones/drone skills) will put out close to their EFT max damage by maintaining optimal range and have adequate tracking. As such, they may yield an even higher percentage of your effective damage. |
Rysis Vyvorant
In Somnis Veritas
Ab Jove Principium
6
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 18:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Thanks for the replies. I will be a little more clear.
It is a 1v1 tournament and no drones are allowed. Since I fly only Gallente boats here is my scenario:
I have a Tristan vs Punisher/Merlin (Both these have no drone bays).
Is the tristan at an immediate disadvantage because of the lack of the drone or not? I believe so but...
Cheers. |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Villore Accords
137
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 20:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
Get them to change rules. Keep damage drones, no ewar drones allowed... Them totally roflstomp them with your overpowered three drone Imicus, or two drone Maulus! :D |
Silas Shaw
Coffee Hub
11
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 00:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
and then fly a mwd imicus with mwd, nanos, a MSE, and damps set for resolution. railguns to taste.
orbit tourney beacon at max range, recall your drones every.... 30 secs? so that they never get to shoot them, and kite to death.
profit. |
Bap1811
Club Bear
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 11:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
drdxie wrote:With average skills you get 30dps plus from a single T2 hobgoblin. Adding this to a a T1 frig's damage can't be seen as a waste of time, thats like having at least another gun mounted. But hey.. who wants to win at PvP anyway, its all about the fun.
Actually, 1 hob gets you about 20 DPS as a flight of hobs give 100. |
M1k3y Koontz
Taxes Suck Inc.
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 18:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
drdxie wrote:With average skills you get 30dps plus from a single T2 hobgoblin. Adding this to a a T1 frig's damage can't be seen as a waste of time, thats like having at least another gun mounted. But hey.. who wants to win at PvP anyway, its all about the fun.
30 DPS?
Acording to pyfa I get 99 dps out of a full flight of T2 hobgoblins all L5...
Either way, 19 or so DPS from a drone on a Tristan wouldn't put you at a huge disadvantage, though I would complain about it a fair bit :)
(I assume this is for a tournament where your not allowed to use drones for some reason?) |
T0RT0ISE
KRAFTSTOFF GmbH
KRAFTSTOFF
41
|
Posted - 2012.02.25 00:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
DeBingJos wrote:T0RT0ISE wrote:Please show me a PVP worthy 100dps frig where the drone does 20% of that damage.
EDIT: Or whatever other figures you pulled out of your arse. I did pull the numbers out of my ass, but it appears they are quite correct when I EFT them with my skills. 1 Hobgoblin II in an incursus does 16 damage (and my drone skils and gallente frig skills are not very good.) 3 light ion blaster II without the drone do 87 damage (mind you I don't even have the skill to fit them, with spec the number will be higher) Edit : 16 of 87 = 18.39%So yes, I was right. Edit 2: Even if the drone does half the damage I claim it is worth using.
I like how you use an unbonused ship that you cant even fly with said skills in order to prove something when you already admit you are talking out of your arse.
Light ion blaster II with your skills THAT DONT EVEN LET YOU FIT THEM might be so but in reality that drone is doing about 10% of damage. It's not critical, but obviously you would be wise to fit one :P
I'm not deliberately being argumentative by the way, just a bit more realistic. |
Jones Bones
Brutor Bike Co.
Heretic Nation
29
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Posted - 2012.02.25 14:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Using just one drone sucks in that it applies very little dps for a lot of mouse clicking the other frig pilots don't have to deal with.
You can set shortcuts to launch and aggress drones. I think mine are Ctrl-L and Ctrl-D. No click \o/
|
Tsubutai
The Tuskers
64
|
Posted - 2012.02.25 14:36:00 -
[22] - Quote
Jones Bones wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Using just one drone sucks in that it applies very little dps for a lot of mouse clicking the other frig pilots don't have to deal with. You can set shortcuts to launch and aggress drones. I think mine are Ctrl-L and Ctrl-D. No click \o/
You can have shortcuts to make drones engage and to recall them but you can't make a shortcut to launch drones, presumably because its meaning would be ambiguous on ships with multiple flights. |
T0RT0ISE
KRAFTSTOFF GmbH
KRAFTSTOFF
42
|
Posted - 2012.02.25 18:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
right click, launch..... shortcut combo x5 just in case.
I don't think its a lot of effort considering the manual flying you should be doing in frig pvp anyway. a few mouseclicks for a throwaway 'module' isn't much to ask. |
DeBingJos
T.R.I.A.D
202
|
Posted - 2012.02.26 08:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
T0RT0ISE wrote:DeBingJos wrote:T0RT0ISE wrote:Please show me a PVP worthy 100dps frig where the drone does 20% of that damage.
EDIT: Or whatever other figures you pulled out of your arse. I did pull the numbers out of my ass, but it appears they are quite correct when I EFT them with my skills. 1 Hobgoblin II in an incursus does 16 damage (and my drone skils and gallente frig skills are not very good.) 3 light ion blaster II without the drone do 87 damage (mind you I don't even have the skill to fit them, with spec the number will be higher) Edit : 16 of 87 = 18.39%So yes, I was right. Edit 2: Even if the drone does half the damage I claim it is worth using. I like how you use an unbonused ship that you cant even fly with said skills in order to prove something when you already admit you are talking out of your arse. Light ion blaster II with your skills THAT DONT EVEN LET YOU FIT THEM might be so but in reality that drone is doing about 10% of damage. It's not critical, but obviously you would be wise to fit one :P I'm not deliberately being argumentative by the way, just a bit more realistic.
My point was that even a single drone does nice amount of dps in a 1 vs 1 frigfight. I even took the time to look up some numbers in EFT.
Also; don't forget that drones have other nice qualities over guns (no ammo or reloads, range, very good tracking, ...)
You need to work on your communication skils. I know these are the EVE-forums, but being rude gets you nowhere and people will put you in the troll-category. (Maybe you are and in that case I give you a 8/10 for successfully trolling me)
Fix FW ! |
GreenSeed
20
|
Posted - 2012.02.26 09:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
Rysis Vyvorant wrote:Thanks for the replies. I will be a little more clear.
It is a 1v1 tournament and no drones are allowed. Since I fly only Gallente boats here is my scenario:
I have a Tristan vs Punisher/Merlin (Both these have no drone bays).
Is the tristan at an immediate disadvantage because of the lack of the drone or not? I believe so but...
Cheers.
get them to change the rules or dont participate. frigs with drones are balanced around drones. the only scenario i would see drones being banned would be on BIG fleet battles where drones add way too much lag, and targets get swapped all the time, so flight time makes them useless. besides fleet doctrine might make the drone control range impossible.
the real question ends being, do you drop ECM drones to force him to kill em off before focusing you, or do you drop T2lights and go for damage?
really, depends on your drone bay. on the tristan i would go for the ECM. and drop it once you have a favorable range and orbit along with your overload. if he targets it and kills it you gained around 10 secs of free tank, if he doesn't your worst case scenario is getting only one jam in, that will give you around 7 -8 secs. best case scenario you get 2 or 3 in and he will rage.
on anything with more room i would go for a mix since drone effects get hit HARD by diminishing returns. (3 ECM drones max at all times, their efects work like modules) |
Daphny Naarma
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 11:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
I got my newbie behind served by an incursus the other day - a lot due to his drone (and granted, a few mistakes from my side as new to the scene). The Incursus kited me while the drone chipped away on my armor (I couldn't hit the drone) and even if the drone alone wasn't a threat, it helped my enemy drain my cap more than without one.
Next time I fight one, I'll refine my tactics though and hope for a more positive outcome!
In a frig vs frig fight? Ofc it's worth it. It's there just like any other offensive module. |
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