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000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
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Posted - 2008.03.20 20:55:00 -
[1]
I say no, i don't want no single person who paid just as much as me for my gamingpleasure to have more say in this game then me, i mean why should they? If ccp wants to hear what their playerbase thinks, implement some other means, have votes (u've done that before) add polls to the startup screen or something. Cmon CCP, u know what happens when u get too close to members of your playerbase. Can u imagine the talk and inuendo? the accusations? the tinfoilhattery?
I can allready say this, no matter what 'council' is elected, they do not nor ever will speak for all of us! or even for the majority of us.
So scratch this stoopid idea while u still can CCP, FFS!!! It will give u more grief then u can imagine.
_______________________________________________________
CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.03.20 20:55:00 -
[2]
So, how has Direct Democracy worked out for everyone? 
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Tarminic - 33 Million SP in Forum Warfare
Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.79.2 |
Kirgan
Pyrognome
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Posted - 2008.03.20 20:58:00 -
[3]
I fully agree here.
Very bad idea.
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Cyber Blue
Cyber Blue Consulting
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Posted - 2008.03.20 21:00:00 -
[4]
Hunter, I understand your feelings. I have some similar feelings, however, since I do not know how it will work out I am willing to wait and see how it goes at first.
It would be irresponsible of me to judge something faulty without giving it a chance.
Take care
End of line... |
000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
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Posted - 2008.03.20 21:01:00 -
[5]
EVE is NOT a democracy, nor should it, cuz if it were, we would all be flying titans right now, with a DDD that has a ROF of 1 second.
If ccp has ideas for the game, let them present the ideas to the ENTIRE community, not a just a handpicked select few.
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CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
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Zeba
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.03.20 21:02:00 -
[6]
I for one am eagerly awaiting the creation of the CSM as the ensuing hilarity afterwards will be awesome to watch and read. 
---------------------
Q: WTF! Why?!
A: Because I can.
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Ethen Bejorn
Pestilent Industries Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.03.20 21:07:00 -
[7]
I just hope that none of these nano-fag alliances get anyone on the council.
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2008.03.20 21:12:00 -
[8]
I didn't read the fine print but doesn't those people also get to pay for their own planetickets and lodging to come to Iceland using their vacation days to maybe have some say on EVE?
If so I think they just bought themselves that right.
These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade! |
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.03.20 21:15:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: 000Hunter000
EVE is NOT a democracy, nor should it, cuz if it were, we would all be flying titans right now, with a DDD that has a ROF of 1 second.
You suggested a player-wide poll, which is exactly what a Direct Democracy is.
Quote:
If ccp has ideas for the game, let them present the ideas to the ENTIRE community, not a just a handpicked select few.
Think about what has happened the last time a dev did this - it resulted in massive amount of whining, arguments, and personal threats against the developers. I don't think this is a decent option, especially considering how hard it is to pick a good idea out of a thousand flames and personal attacks.
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Tarminic - 33 Million SP in Forum Warfare
Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.79.2 |
LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.03.20 21:41:00 -
[10]
Originally by: 000Hunter000
I say no, i don't want no single person who paid just as much as me for my gamingpleasure to have more say in this game then me, i mean why should they? If ccp wants to hear what their playerbase thinks, implement some other means, have votes (u've done that before) add polls to the startup screen or something. Cmon CCP, u know what happens when u get too close to members of your playerbase. Can u imagine the talk and inuendo? the accusations? the tinfoilhattery?
I can allready say this, no matter what 'council' is elected, they do not nor ever will speak for all of us! or even for the majority of us.
So scratch this stoopid idea while u still can CCP, FFS!!! It will give u more grief then u can imagine.
Did you read the whole CSM PDF?
http://www.eve-bank.net Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.[/url] |
cal nereus
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Posted - 2008.03.20 21:56:00 -
[11]
Edited by: cal nereus on 20/03/2008 21:56:27
The job of the CSM is to take thousands of different problems with the game (the problems are determined by the player-base), prioritize them, and send the highest priority problems up to CCP for resolution. That's about it as far as I can tell. And if we don't like how they prioritize the problems, we just get someone different.
---
Join BH-DL
Skills |
Gridwalker
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Posted - 2008.03.20 22:00:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tarminic
Think about what has happened the last time a dev did this - it resulted in massive amount of whining, arguments, and personal threats against the developers. I don't think this is a decent option, especially considering how hard it is to pick a good idea out of a thousand flames and personal attacks.
It never ceases to amaze me, that the one player whose biggest claim to fame is writing forum rants for isk, is consistently the voice of reason in just about every thread he appears.
Tarminic, want to go to Iceland? ;-)
-Grid
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2008.03.20 22:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Gridwalker
Originally by: Tarminic
Think about what has happened the last time a dev did this - it resulted in massive amount of whining, arguments, and personal threats against the developers. I don't think this is a decent option, especially considering how hard it is to pick a good idea out of a thousand flames and personal attacks.
It never ceases to amaze me, that the one player whose biggest claim to fame is writing forum rants for isk, is consistently the voice of reason in just about every thread he appears.
Tarminic, want to go to Iceland? ;-)
-Grid
That's because he appears in every lameass thread where his input with ease can outrank the OPs unlucky encounter with reality.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Tarminic
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Posted - 2008.03.20 22:15:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
That's because he appears in every lameass thread where his input with ease can outrank the OPs unlucky encounter with reality.
Also, I post so often that it's statistically impossible to disagree with everything I say.
Regarding the CSM, I considered running. However, I haven't gotten to play EVE nearly as much as I'd like to lately due to the fact that my normal EVE computer has been down, and as such I'm a bit rusty with the specifics of some game mechanics. I'll most likely endorse someone, but my own run will wait until I'm fully back in EVE. That and I won't be able to get a passport by the 1st. 
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Tarminic - 33 Million SP in Forum Warfare
Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.79.2 |
AndrewRyan
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Posted - 2008.03.20 22:28:00 -
[15]
I think the whole thing is a dreadful idea, the players do not know whats best for EVE and the whole voting thing will just be a popularity contest. CCP just seem to be milking the publicity running around proclaiming "the new innovation in mmos and the first to do this" and I think its going to bite them in the ass when they have to start refusing what the council wants.
atm if people don't like something CCP propose its just some forum flames if they do stuff the people and the council don't like people will really go nuts.
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A Man chooses, a slave obeys. |
Khatred
ReallyPissedOff
Guinea Pigs
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Posted - 2008.03.20 22:37:00 -
[16]
Shoo, let people happily wave their tails at the democracy bone. It's the best trick since about 100 years now.
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jita pc232323
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.20 22:38:00 -
[17]
Do we really need a CSM to let CCP know what the biggest problems with EVE are?
Isn't it obvious?
As a design challenge, running a MMO from a single server cluster was certainly ambitious and EVE has managed to break its own records every few months. But has this concept ever worked? It's never really been possible to have the large fleet battles advertised by CCP and Jita lagged when there were only 10k concurent users.
If you look at the current MMO scene, EVE isn't battling competitors when it comes to single cluster gaming records. And there's a simple reason - current hardware, software and networking developments simply can't support what EVE is trying to achieve. It might be nice to sit back and say you're beyond the envelope, but when it comes to keeping your customers (and your developers) happy, it pays to be comfortably within the capability of your hardware and network infrastructure.
CSM is as much of a publicity stunt as clinging to the ailing single server design is - everyone knows what the problems with EVE are, CCP more than anyone.
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Lance Fighter
Safe Haven
North Star Confederation
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Posted - 2008.03.20 22:41:00 -
[18]
im lost. wtf is a council of stellar awesomeness, and how does it pertain to my gameplay?
Ive noticed that 99.9% of people on these forums have a signature. If you are one of the 0.1% that doesnot have a sig, copy this into your sig, and display your defiance towards people with sigs. |
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.03.20 22:43:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Lance Fighter
im lost. wtf is a council of stellar awesomeness, and how does it pertain to my gameplay?
This should answer your questions. 
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Tarminic - 33 Million SP in Forum Warfare
Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.79.2 |
SPIONKOP
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Posted - 2008.03.20 23:03:00 -
[20]
Nothing will change. The Devs will do what devs do.
The choosen few will get picked. All will be members of the big alliances and PVP/KB junkies.
Carebears will get screwed again.
Thanks CCP but I have little trust for you and your "open" vote.
---------------------------------------------
Space For Rent.
100mil ISK/Week.
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Havohej
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Posted - 2008.03.20 23:04:00 -
[21]
RABBLE RABBLE!
http://defiasblog.insurmountablelogic.comPlease visit your user settings to re-enable images.[/url]
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Terail Zoqial
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.20 23:57:00 -
[22]
Do you really think that CCP are going to wreck their game because a few peeps want titans in empire?
No, it's not like that at all.
It's not about voting for stupid, unbalancing ideas, it's meant to bring certain problems, or sorthfallings to light. I very much doubt there are going to be sweeping changes, maybe a few minor things will change.
i assume you have read the devblogs about it, read the literature floating about and have, from this, obtained an educated idea what it's all about?.
If not, maybe you should.
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Lady Karma
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Posted - 2008.03.21 00:22:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ethen Bejorn
I just hope that none of these nano-fag alliances get anyone on the council.
Drake pilot spotted
Thats the thing about a select group making decisions, they will have a narrow opinion. I for one hope people like the missile spamming newb above doesn't get a say, as the game will turn into blob wars. Tank F1-8, hot drop carriers, hug station...redock...repeat.
Omg, did I have an opinion?
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Minari Shiranui
Disciples Of Apocalypse
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Posted - 2008.03.21 00:28:00 -
[24]
From above:
"The choosen few will get picked. All will be members of the big alliances and PVP/KB junkies.
Carebears will get screwed again."
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Waxau
The Fated
Odyssey.
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Posted - 2008.03.21 00:30:00 -
[25]
Id love to have my say here, mainly because ive been in eve for over 4 years now, and was here for the process of the first announcements of the council, and the reasons why, so on and so forth.
There have been a number of 'issues' one might say, where certain CCP staff have broken the 'line'. CCP actively took a stance on this of fixing it, and regaining the customers trust. This is the council. A way for players to have their say.
Im sure many will remember at school and such, having a 'student body' or such, where they would present ideas to the school. And fair enough, ideas such as 'A swimming pool ' never got chosen. But the fundamentals are the same.
Those members of CCP who play Eve as their game (make no mistake, CCP play eve), will most likely be in large alliances, due to their age in game, and thus the greater 'evolution' of 0.0 alliances compared to low sec, or empire. Now, what about those players in low sec? What pirates here, feel recent patches (minus the Hictors) have nerfed piracy? Warp to zero? HP buffer? The list goes on. If CCP had a 'pirate' viewpoint, then those issues which concern him/her, would be brought to light.
And yes - Theres the issue of 'only their concerns' are viewed. But for those who are really worthy of the titles of the council, they would take in view points of other players, whether through eve mails, forums, and so on. Take for example myself - Im tempted to apply for the simple fact that ive been playing since Beta, and have seen all the patches that have either boosted Eve as a whole, or nerfed it.
Many of you will argue that its unfair to have a single voice for a section of people, and so on - But the fact remains: Those of us who have extensive knowledge of eve, have experienced more. We have seen the hardships of patches many times more than 3 month old players. We remember the days of being refunded a day of playing, for a 2 hour downtime. We remember the days of not being able to cancel warp once activated. We remember the days of no secure cans. Or the days before battleship NPCs.
As a final example of WHY i believe this council is a good idea, ill give you that of Explosion Velocity/Radius. Before this was introduced, a raven could pop ANY frigate with one torpedo. 6 launchers = 6 frigates. To fix it, CCP introduced explosion radius and velocity. But what happens if we have a 3 month old player start discussing the merits of this? Maybe he dislikes it? And wants it all removed?
That player wont KNOW the old days. He wont know the balance there is nowdays, compared to back then. At the same time, he wont know the general influence a shuttle with 100m3 cargo capacity would make. But for those of us who have extensive knowledge and experience, we have a clearer picture. Our views are far less clouded, some might say.
I most likely sound egotistical when you read this, but this council gives CCP a view from other distinctive opinion of Eve, and can then mould Eve into a more enjoyable place, even if many players cannot see the potential good.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.03.21 00:37:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Havohej
RABBLE RABBLE!
You're giving this thread too much credit.
RABBLE BABBLE RABBLE!
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Tac Ginaz
Dark Prophecy Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.21 00:40:00 -
[27]
Here are some facts:
1 - There is no trust in CCP. Their developers have been caught favoring certain players.
2 - CCP is not doing anything new despite the stupid hyping and self-aggrandizing. Every single MMO has had a group of players as the 'representatives' of the rest of the playerbase to discuss and change the game according to feedback.
3 - The few MMO's that listened to the representatives of the player base ended up drastically favoring a portion of the players while royally ****in over the rest. Read: the higher end players received all the goodies and the lower end players became their boytoys. Example: Dark Age of Camelot, Ultima Online, Everquest and WOW. This is seen in EVE at the moment via the fact that only old, rich players can afford T2 vessels and use them to royally butthump any player less wealthy than themselves.
4 - The few MMO's that asked and then ignored the player feedback either went out of business or to save their business turned the game into a kiddiefest game. Prime example: Star Wars Galaxies. Or any SOE game for that matter.
Also consider that any 'vote' system means that alliances and huge corps are the ones that become 'superdelegates' and these representatives of the playerbase will no longer represent the playerbase but their own interests and the interests of the corp/alliance they are in.
Polls and such do not work either. These benefit the Farmers of EVE as they outnumber the players.
My best guess is CCP is S.O.L. when it comes to options. I could say i'd love it if they hired me for 6 months as a consultant.. id go visit iceland and slap a few devs (particularly their head honcho that always comes out as a hippie high on acid in the vidblogs) and try that 90% alcohol drink I keep reading about.
yes that'd be nice.
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Lady Karma
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.21 00:46:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Tac Ginaz
Here are some facts:
1 - There is no trust in CCP. Their developers have been caught favoring certain players.
And sadly, because of that. No matter how carefully they select people, and how impartial they behave on the counsel.
There will always be people that don't believe a freakin word 
Bed.made.lie.in
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Uilliam Nebel
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Posted - 2008.03.21 00:50:00 -
[29]
There are some problems with older players being the majority of council members. Many I've talked to have a 'this is my sand box' mentality. (Many more have not though.) And some seem to take more time to belittle a newer player, then provide a little guidance. And if Eve is going to continue to grow, and evolve, older players will have to learn that things change with a growing player base. The Eve they had four years ago is no more, or what did not work then may work now, and visa versa. Also I can understand being proud for having been here from the start. But some people act like it makes them the aristocracy of New Eden, and that it entitles them to something.
Since the CSM is about the future of Eve, it should ideally also have players who have been playing from across the years Eve has been online. So that the issues they are facing now can be addressed as well. Not looked at has a 'rite of passage' or worse, 'tough, I had to deal with it, so should you.'
/
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do." - Confucius, Chinese philosopher & reformer (551 BC - 479 BC.) |
Steel Jin
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Posted - 2008.03.21 00:54:00 -
[30]
The CSM doesn't change the fact that Eve is ruled by a Monarchical system of government. Hilmer is the king and the rest of CCP are his close advisers and assistants.
What the CSM does is allow the common man of Eve to have a representative body before the king and his court. The king doesn't have to follow their advice, but he has committed himself to listening to them. This is a good thing.
Now, changing subject, I am concerned that only the big alliances will be represented on the council. Those outside of the big alliances just don't have the organization needed to elect a representative to the council--or do they? We could unite behind one common person who is not a member of one of the big alliances and elect him. That's our choice. If we have the will we can. If we don't, then only the big alliances will be heard.
I don't know who that person is, but if one steps forward he has my four votes.
Steel Jin
Personal Eve Site |
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