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Typhoon: Armor or Shield Tanking?

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TrueFlame	Posted - 2004.04.12 22:59:00 - [1] Edited by: TrueFlame on 14/04/2004 00:45:30 I will be getting a Typhoon soon (as in tonight, or a few days at the very most), so I would come up with some setups while I wait. For the record, this will be my first battleship, and it will be used for hunting, missions, and POSSIBLY some light PVP. The missions are level 3 Federation Navy kills (issued by the top agents), which are generally multiple cruiser, but I anticipate a battleship will show up sooner or later. NPC hunting, at the moment, is just multiple cruisers at best, but I plan going into deep space (not alone of course) every once in awhile. My question is what tank you recommend (because it can change the whole setup). Using the EVE forum search, I've heard of people using the Typhoon for both armor and shield tanking. Personally, I do not much like the idea behind armor tanking, because I hate the idea of letting the enemy get past my first line of defense, but I am keeping an open mind. I do not have all the powergrid in the world to use either, seeing as I will be running 4x 1400 and 4x 'Makluth' Heavies. Thank you. Also, if you have any tips, ideas, setups, etc. you would like to share about the Typhoon, I would like to hear them. EDIT: Completed last sentence of the first paragraph. "On a long enough timeline, the survival rate of everyone drops to zero." -Fight Club
Shevar	Posted - 2004.04.12 23:27:00 - [2] Typhoon rocks for missions: 4x 1200 (note though they suck for pvp, but missions are a walk over in a bs and since you dont need 3 rcu's means you can move around faster and safer) 4x heavy missle launcher 1x 100mn mwd 1x large (or xlarge if you can fit it) shieldbooster 1x hardener (look up npc stats at eve-db and use the best hardener for that situation) 1x shield boost amp 2 warp core stabs 2 nanofibers 2 cap relays (or diags when the patch comes through) 1 dmg mod As for pvp it depends on what you gonna do, if you gonna sit at 75 to 150 km take sensor boosters and 1400's if you gonna get up close and personal go with some 800's and some armor tanking. -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Kashre	Posted - 2004.04.13 00:22:00 - [3] Personally Im a fan of armor tanking for PvP and shield tanking for PvE. With an armor tank, yeah you're going to let people get past your first line of defence, but if you are in group combat that's going to happen anyways... and with an armor tanking setup you can keep your mid slots free for useful items like sensor boosters and warp disruptors. And for a 1 on 1 situation I feel that it will be easier to maintain your cap using an armor tank setup and cap-rechargers/cap boosters in the mid slots. +++ It's called "low security space" for a reason.
Rizmordan Hillgotlieb	Posted - 2004.04.13 01:13:00 - [4] Armor tanking - the Typhoon screams "armor tank me" Posting for Numbnutz
TrueFlame	Posted - 2004.04.13 01:45:00 - [5] Any particular armor tank setups then? My mechanic skills are pretty low... "On a long enough timeline, the survival rate of everyone drops to zero." -Fight Club
Toulak	Posted - 2004.04.13 02:50:00 - [6] Quote: With an armor tank, yeah you're going to let people get past your first line of defence, but if you are in group combat that's going to happen anyways... Then you dont know how to shield tank.
Kashre	Posted - 2004.04.13 03:32:00 - [7] Edited by: Kashre on 13/04/2004 03:35:05 Quote: Quote: With an armor tank, yeah you're going to let people get past your first line of defence, but if you are in group combat that's going to happen anyways... Then you dont know how to shield tank. I dont know what you think can be done with 4 mid slots, but no amount of shield tanking on a typhoon is going to let you keep your shields long if you have 7 or 8 battleships all focusing their fire on you, which is why I added the qulaifer "group combat". 1 on 1 though the typhoon can shield tank almost as well as anything else cause of all those low slots. +++ It's called "low security space" for a reason.
Roba	Posted - 2004.04.13 07:15:00 - [8] Typhoon armor tanks very well. Better then it could ever sheild tank. 1 EM hardner 1 Therm hardner 1 Kenetic hardner 1 explosive hardner 2 large armor repairers 1 heavy capac booster (this will allow you to run the armor reps and hardners for 15 minutes non stop) if your crazy and into close range 4 800mm artty and 4 seige launchers.
Synaig0	Posted - 2004.04.13 08:05:00 - [9] Edited by: Synaig0 on 13/04/2004 08:13:10 Edited by: Synaig0 on 13/04/2004 08:12:33 Edited by: Synaig0 on 13/04/2004 08:11:40 I dont think thats gonna fit.. -ever- The large armor repairers + 800mm's and siege launchers need way too many powergrid, and why would you need a EM (armor)hardner on a ship that has 70% base resistance? If u are gonna use a 6th low slot for tanking u better get another explosive hardner in it.. its resistance is 55% even with one hardner already active Personally I think armor tanking is the way to go on a typhoon though.. cos then u can use the med slots for various other things then shield tanking. (e.g. mwd, warp scramblers, webber, heavy cap booster) instead of having to dedicate you mid slots and a large part of your low slots to shield tanking (cap relays etc) on a different note.. dual 425mm autocannons will be a better choice for a armor tank then 800mm's since armor tanking is already powergrid intensive and the 425's and 800's have the same dot.. and u are gonna need a MWD to get up close (more powergrid usage) -Synaigo (yeah yeah so I can't spell.. what else is new ) --------------------- I'm the guy with the sleepy look...
Ravelin Eb	Posted - 2004.04.13 09:16:00 - [10] My Typhoon setup is, High: 4 x 800mm 4 x Heavy Launchers Med: 1 x MWD 1 x AB 2 x Cap Recharger II Low: 2 x Med Armor Repairer II 1 x Thermal Hardner 1 x Explosive Hardner 1 x EM Hardner 1 x Gyro II 1 x 1600mm Nano Plating Before I got my Typhoon I was used to a long-range set-up on a Tempest and the thought of getting in close and letting the shields go down was scarey. Not having any shield booster to get the shields back up afterwards was also a concern but after a while you get used to it. I use this ship for missions and against mission rats I've never really been in trouble. 90% of the time they are dead even before the shields go, the rest of the time I can keep my armor at over 80% quite easily by running just one of the med repairers (which I can run indefinetly). After all, with the hardners running you have armor resistances of 70% EM, 55% Exp, 63% Kin, 68% Therm (average of 64%) and since most mission rats seem to do EM & Therm damage it's easy to keep up with it. If I was doing more serious rat hunting or PvP I'd consider some changes though. Ravelin Eb
fras	Posted - 2004.04.13 09:35:00 - [11] Short range definately armour, I think long range suits shield as things are atm. Armour tanking takes more grid and 5 low slots if done properly, doesn't leave much room for 1400's.
Outcastino	Posted - 2004.04.13 12:02:00 - [12] well, shield tanking is very good. With my weak skills i can skils tank for an eternity and do good damage at it. 3x1400mm 1x720mm, 4xheavy launcher. XL, EM And THERMAL hardener, Shield AMP. 7 cap relays. But after the next patch GOGOGOGO armor tank. -------------------------------------------- I love the smell off cookies in the morning, smells like victory!
Blazyon	Posted - 2004.04.13 13:15:00 - [13] could one armour tank 0.0 NPCs with a brawler? or would you have to go for long range. Pain is an object of relativity.
DaniB	Posted - 2004.04.13 13:30:00 - [14] For Missions: 4x 800mm 4x Siege Launcher (FoF for 0,4 missions and player pirates) 1x MWD (Quad at best) 1x EM Hardner 1x Thermal Hardner 1x Large Shield Booster 1x Local Nanofiber (+24m/s x your navi skill and 15% more agility, highly recommended) 1x Gyro II 1x Tracking Enhancer II 2x Warpcore Stabs 2x PDU AND of course Ogre Drones... i only kill the mission pirates with drones... always jump in at 15km to grap the loot fast ;D
TrueFlame	Posted - 2004.04.13 18:04:00 - [15] Would fitting 2x 800 and 2x 1400's be bad (covering both distances, but not good in either)? "On a long enough timeline, the survival rate of everyone drops to zero." -Fight Club
Nirvy	Posted - 2004.04.13 18:23:00 - [16] The Typhoon is made to Armour tank. And 800mm Projectiles along with it are a good combo. Add in a few webbers and WS and you have a very powerful lvl1 bship for PvP. Mercenary \| The Azath
Sun Sliver	Posted - 2004.04.13 21:35:00 - [17] Quote: Would fitting 2x 800 and 2x 1400's be bad (covering both distances, but not good in either)? I wondered the same question once, solution i heard and have found most effective is dedicate in 1 or the other. probably with typhoon go close range guns since you will be fitting a MWD on it range wont be such a prob. If going PvP it is, imo, one of the better catcher bs's b/c of base speed and armour tanking ability. If you are going hunting or kill missions maybe go 3 800 / 1 1400 so you can knock out any ships mwding to you at range, but i would still use all close range guns and rely on missiles to get the far off mongers
Kashre	Posted - 2004.04.14 01:59:00 - [18] I wouldnt think there'd be a need to try for 2x1400 and 2x800 cause the 4 missiles launchers are basically short-med range weapons anyways, and without the accuracy limitations above 15km or so of 800mm. On my shield tanking setups I can usually get 4xsiege launchers, 2x1400 and 2x650/720 (named). That seems to work pretty well. Not so easy to do that with an armor tank though cause of the extra powergrid required to run 2 L armor repairers. On an armor tank I end up with 2x800mm and 2x720mm along with the siege launchers. +++ It's called "low security space" for a reason.
TrueFlame	Posted - 2004.04.14 05:35:00 - [19] Edited by: TrueFlame on 14/04/2004 05:41:43 Quote: I wouldnt think there'd be a need to try for 2x1400 and 2x800 cause the 4 missiles launchers are basically short-med range weapons anyways, and without the accuracy limitations above 15km or so of 800mm. Thing is, after using a Caracal for missions for a little bit, I found using missiles to be a bit expensive for mission use. Really, for every 2 million I made, another 600-800k had to be put out for missiles. EDIT: Chaos isnt acting funny for me anymore. Going to try some of these things. "On a long enough timeline, the survival rate of everyone drops to zero." -Fight Club
Fred Flintstone	Posted - 2004.04.14 06:34:00 - [20] Edited by: Fred Flintstone on 14/04/2004 06:35:47 Why do people use EM hardners in armor tanking _________________________________ Yabba Dabba Doooooo!!!!!
Kashre	Posted - 2004.04.14 07:13:00 - [21] Edited by: Kashre on 14/04/2004 07:18:32 Edited by: Kashre on 14/04/2004 07:17:41 double posts = **** or perhaps some other non-offensive yet filtered word. +++ It's called "low security space" for a reason.
Kashre	Posted - 2004.04.14 07:16:00 - [22] Edited by: Kashre on 14/04/2004 07:18:49 Quote: Thing is, after using a Caracal for missions for a little bit, I found using missiles to be a bit expensive for mission use. Really, for every 2 million I made, another 600-800k had to be put out for missiles. EDIT: Chaos isnt acting funny for me anymore. Going to try some of these things. Ah yeah, my bad. I was just thinking of PvP :) For tanking on NPCs I usually just cram on 4x1400mm with a couple of RCUs and use a shiled tanked setup with 2 warp core stabs and lots of gun mods. Your drones and launchers can bail you out if you get to close to hit the NPCs with the big guns, or you can just warp out and back in. +++ It's called "low security space" for a reason.
TrueFlame	Posted - 2004.04.14 22:11:00 - [23] It seems if you go with 1400's, people recommend shield tanking. May I ask why armor tanking is not popular in this situation? Is there some sort of problem? My guess would be that the low slots are needed for other things if you are using 1400's (specifically RCU's and PD's), but I dont know for sure. "On a long enough timeline, the survival rate of everyone drops to zero." -Fight Club
Rob Mattacks	Posted - 2004.04.14 22:39:00 - [24] IIRC 2 large armor repairers take 1900 grid so armor tanking is a lot more grid intensive than shield and yes also you do lose most of the low slots to do it which may be used for grid upgrades.
TrueFlame	Posted - 2004.04.16 19:24:00 - [25] Edited by: TrueFlame on 16/04/2004 19:47:03 How does this sound for NPC/Missions: 4x 1400mm 4x 'Makluth' Heavy Launchers (thats what I have ATM, probably get arbalests later) 1x XL Shield Booster 1x 'Anointed'EM Ward 1x Shield Boost Amplifier 1x Tracking Computer II (for when the new balance patch comes up and it gets harder to track cruisers/frigs) 4x Power Diags 2x WCS 1x Gyro II 1x Tracking Enhancer II Keep in mind this is mainly for missions, with some NPC (and nothing overly large at that). Suggestions? EDIT: Removed named PD's because the bonuses were focused on the wrong attributes "On a long enough timeline, the survival rate of everyone drops to zero." -Fight Club
Kaylona Tso	Posted - 2004.04.16 20:59:00 - [26] Edited by: Kaylona Tso on 16/04/2004 21:00:29 Quote: Edited by: TrueFlame on 16/04/2004 19:47:03 How does this sound for NPC/Missions: 4x 1400mm 4x 'Makluth' Heavy Launchers (thats what I have ATM, probably get arbalests later) 1x XL Shield Booster 1x 'Anointed'EM Ward 1x Shield Boost Amplifier 1x Tracking Computer II (for when the new balance patch comes up and it gets harder to track cruisers/frigs) 4x Power Diags 2x WCS 1x Gyro II 1x Tracking Enhancer II Keep in mind this is mainly for missions, with some NPC (and nothing overly large at that). Suggestions? EDIT: Removed named PD's because the bonuses were focused on the wrong attributes I would put either a Mid Slot sensor booster where the tracking computer is or a sensor enhancer where tracking enhancer is. Reason being is the Typhoon has horrible max targetting range so your loosing the excellent falloff of the 1400mm. Tracking also isn't much of a problem with 1400mm and other long distance guns as it is with blasters or autocannons. Personally I would go for the sensor booster and tracking enhancer setup. -----
TrueFlame	Posted - 2004.04.18 03:23:00 - [27] Quote: Edited by: Kaylona Tso on 16/04/2004 21:00:29 Quote: Edited by: TrueFlame on 16/04/2004 19:47:03 How does this sound for NPC/Missions: 4x 1400mm 4x 'Makluth' Heavy Launchers (thats what I have ATM, probably get arbalests later) 1x XL Shield Booster 1x 'Anointed'EM Ward 1x Shield Boost Amplifier 1x Tracking Computer II (for when the new balance patch comes up and it gets harder to track cruisers/frigs) 4x Power Diags 2x WCS 1x Gyro II 1x Tracking Enhancer II Keep in mind this is mainly for missions, with some NPC (and nothing overly large at that). Suggestions? EDIT: Removed named PD's because the bonuses were focused on the wrong attributes I would put either a Mid Slot sensor booster where the tracking computer is or a sensor enhancer where tracking enhancer is. Reason being is the Typhoon has horrible max targetting range so your loosing the excellent falloff of the 1400mm. Tracking also isn't much of a problem with 1400mm and other long distance guns as it is with blasters or autocannons. Personally I would go for the sensor booster and tracking enhancer setup. Actually, if I train my Engy to 5, I can essentially get rid of one of the PD's and put in a Tech 2 signal amp. Unfortunately, my character on Chaos is too far behind for me to test anything really. "On a long enough timeline, the survival rate of everyone drops to zero." -Fight Club
Arcane	Posted - 2004.04.18 08:16:00 - [28] On a side note: why is everybody recommending 800mm repeatings? I would suggest using either dual 650s or even dual 425s ... the have lower fitting reqs. while still having a higher DOT then the 800mm. They also can hold more ammo. Only downsides are a slightly decreased range (which is not an issue at close range anyway) and the higher ROF which results in more ammo to be needed. Be quick or be dead ...
Shadowsword	Posted - 2004.04.18 08:56:00 - [29] Quote: Edited by: Fred Flintstone on 14/04/2004 06:35:47 Why do people use EM hardners in armor tanking A standard shield tank (using 3 hardeners) has: 50% EM resistance 60% Explosive resistance 60% Thermal resistance 70% Kinetic resitance It make sense to do mostly EM damage against them, so a lot of ppl use EM damaging weapons. It's even better if the target doesn't tank A standard armor tank (using 3 hardeners) often has (varying, depend in part of the race): 60% EM resistance 60% Explosive resistance 72.5% Thermal resistance 62.5% Kinetic resistance Here, too, it make sense to do mostly EM damage. In both cases it's the hybrid users who are screwed up. It's harder for them to break through a tnak.
Siddy	Posted - 2004.04.18 10:11:00 - [30] Edited by: Siddy on 18/04/2004 10:15:08 Finaly - my 7 days forum ban is over and i can SCREAM for all thees typhoon treadhs anyway - i startted whit typhoon so i know what i am talkking abaut Typhoon Decent drone bay no CPU problem and no enought gunpoints to forma a PWG problem :) - long range engadements - Shield tank = Heat/EM hardeners + XL SB and if u dont want sensor booster then AMP maybe Sensor booster (typhoon got small ... WERY small targeting range for BS Low slot: cap recharge and damage mods on guns Arming: Good skills: 1400mms and Heavy launchers Bad skills 1200mms ans Heavy launchers - Short range - Armor tank = Heat/Kinetik/Explosion + 1 or 2 L armor repairer Medslot Cap booster whit cap charges MWD Warp scrambler or 2 Lots of drones Arming: variant1) 425 Double AC cannons and heavy launchers Variant2) 425 Double AC's and Heavy nosferatus Variant3) Heavylaunchers and Heavy nosferatus Typhoon Role Due to typhhon exstream agility and speed (for BS) it can easily obtain advantagios Tacktical position and shuld be used as Heavy duty interseptor (whit MWD) or Long range support ship (typhoon can keep it range to any BS - espesialy whit MWD ) Spesiality - Most Firepovered Tire 1 BS in game - can mach Tire 2 BS damage and its fairly durable whit desent cap ( due to no use of cap by typhoons primary and secondary weponsystems) sorry for all my typhos - im to drunk to correkt em now -------------------------------------------

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