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Nu Wa Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.04.01 15:10:00 - [61] Edited by: Nu Wa on 01/04/2008 15:12:02 Originally by: Mr Reeth Wrong. The Paladin and the Nightmare have the same tracking if the paladin fits a TC..... Nightmare still has better tracking than a paladin loaded with faction TC + Tracking Script... 37.5% vs 35% unless, of course, you get an officer TC.
Layla Ashley Children of Avalon Avateas Blessed	Posted - 2008.04.01 16:13:00 - [62] paladin only need 3 slot tank (x-type ofc). so you can go 4hs if you want. i prefer 1 cpr though. so i can fit 2-3 tracking computers/webber (or ab if needed) in mids and still have perma tank for highs use small remote rep to fix up drones and drone link augmentor (maybe 1 tractor for mission completion loot). if you don't have a second paladin for looting/salvaging, just refit after doing a few missions with 4/3 tractor/salvager and 7 cargo extenders
Mr Reeth	Posted - 2008.04.01 16:26:00 - [63] Originally by: Nu Wa Edited by: Nu Wa on 01/04/2008 15:12:02 Originally by: Mr Reeth Wrong. The Paladin and the Nightmare have the same tracking if the paladin fits a TC..... Nightmare still has better tracking than a paladin loaded with faction TC + Tracking Script... 37.5% vs 35% unless, of course, you get an officer TC. Well, you got me there. The Nightmare has a 2.5% tracking bonus. Which in DPS terms means what? Nothing? And since everyone is fitting best complex shield boosters on their nightmares why not fit a slightly better TC?
Fon Revedhort	Posted - 2008.04.01 17:48:00 - [64] Uh, well... you know, you can fit a TC on the Nightmare, too! --- Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Nu Wa	Posted - 2008.04.01 17:55:00 - [65] Nightmare still has 2.5% tracking bonus over paladin AFTER paladin has spent 1 mid slot and money for the faction TC. The bonus is passive therefore you won't find yourself forgetting to turn it on. In terms of DPS, the more tracking the better. Getting an officer item in order to stay competitive doesn't make for a strong argument. I still like the paladin though because it looks way better... nightmare looks like beef Teriyaki on a stick :)
Mr Reeth The Aegis Militia Aegis Militia	Posted - 2008.04.01 18:52:00 - [66] Originally by: Fon Revedhort Uh, well... you know, you can fit a TC on the Nightmare, too! Read the third to last post on the second page.
Mr Reeth	Posted - 2008.04.01 18:59:00 - [67] Originally by: Nu Wa Nightmare still has 2.5% tracking bonus over paladin AFTER paladin has spent 1 mid slot and money for the faction TC. The bonus is passive therefore you won't find yourself forgetting to turn it on. In terms of DPS, the more tracking the better. Getting an officer item in order to stay competitive doesn't make for a strong argument. I still like the paladin though because it looks way better... nightmare looks like beef Teriyaki on a stick :) Yes, there is a 2.5% tracking diff. ISK for faction mods is a non-issue when talking about ships that cost 800-900 mil. The Paladin mids are not vital slots. They can be used for anything you want. AB, 1-4 TCs, a bunch of webbers, cap booster it's all just gravy. You forget to turn on modules? As far as buying insanly expensive mods... most Nightmare setups use a billion isk booster.
Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2008.04.01 19:21:00 - [68] Originally by: Mr Reeth The Paladin and the Nightmare have the same tracking if the paladin fits a TC. I have yet to see a Nightmare setup that does not use all mids for tank and cap. Well you haven't seen a good nightmare setup yet then. Mine actually runs with a SS TC and TWO Officer TEs (which are actually better than TCs since the script nerf). So it will have a whole world of better tracking AND optimal than your Paladin. And it has more mids to spare for SeBo and AB. And yes, that means it tanks fine with just four slots. Thats the beauty of the Gist XL Boosters. And that Gist Booster is probably a large part of the reason why the pimp Nightmare is better than the pimp Paladin. And you mention hitting cruisers within web range so much, I gotta wonder what kind of missions you run? Cannot be Amarr (which are really the only agents justifying either ship), as I run those and cruisers pretty much never make it close enough to me to even hit them with a domi web... Sure, with cheaper gear the Paladin might be equal or even better than the Nightmare, but seriously, if you fly such a ship, your goal should be to properly pimp it. And that business of suicide ganking is probably cooked a whole lot hotter than it is actually eaten. Not to mention it has zero impact on what the ships capabilites are. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Liam Fremen Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.	Posted - 2008.04.01 20:40:00 - [69] Edited by: Liam Fremen on 01/04/2008 20:44:57 I actually use my nightmare as only mission ship. I tryed navy mega, i tryed machariel, and i chosed nightmare, i got "half decent" shield skill but 14m in gunnery. 4x modulated tacyon (can't use t2 lazors, just minn and gall large t2) 2x true sansha large smartbomb (very handly on angel miss and useful) 1x C5L Xlarge booster (can't use t2) 1x shield boost amplifier (can't use t2) 1x heavy cap booster II (i just use it in 2-3 missions and is a safety) 4x racial specific t2 hardeners 3x true sansha heat sink 2x power diangostic II It works very well, much cpu available, much grid left, u can fit t2 and t2 booster without problem, carrying 3 kind of crystals u can fit 20 cap booster 800. :) i use it all time i want to do missions and it works a charme! And tacyon with this track bonus is something crazy ^^ _________________________________________________
ElCoCo	Posted - 2008.04.01 21:00:00 - [70] ^^Man, at least get a domination/DG XL shield booster, they're dirt cheap^^ XL-C5L Boink!
Kruel	Posted - 2008.04.01 21:14:00 - [71] Originally by: Liam Fremen 4x modulated tacyon (can't use t2 lazors, just minn and gall large t2) 2x true sansha large smartbomb (very handly on angel miss and useful) 1x C5L Xlarge booster (can't use t2) 1x shield boost amplifier (can't use t2) 1x heavy cap booster II (i just use it in 2-3 missions and is a safety) 4x racial specific t2 hardeners 3x true sansha heat sink 2x power diangostic II Where do you run missions?
Tregaron	Posted - 2008.04.02 10:48:00 - [72] Nightmare + Crystal set + faction booster = the pwn
Aslord	Posted - 2008.04.02 11:49:00 - [73] Originally by: Liam Fremen Edited by: Liam Fremen on 01/04/2008 20:44:57 I actually use my nightmare as only mission ship. I tryed navy mega, i tryed machariel, and i chosed nightmare, i got "half decent" shield skill but 14m in gunnery. 4x modulated tacyon (can't use t2 lazors, just minn and gall large t2) 2x true sansha large smartbomb (very handly on angel miss and useful) 1x C5L Xlarge booster (can't use t2) 1x shield boost amplifier (can't use t2) 1x heavy cap booster II (i just use it in 2-3 missions and is a safety) 4x racial specific t2 hardeners 3x true sansha heat sink 2x power diangostic II It works very well, much cpu available, much grid left, u can fit t2 and t2 booster without problem, carrying 3 kind of crystals u can fit 20 cap booster 800. :) i use it all time i want to do missions and it works a charme! And tacyon with this track bonus is something crazy ^^ with 3ccc rigs 1. get gist xl booster, replace power dias with flux coil. 2. with 3 cap recharger in mid slots (2 hardener is good enough) you can add a 4th heatsink 3. perma-run tank and guns. with a crystal set you can remove the shield amp and add anything you want. this is a fail safe mission nightmare
Liam Fremen Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.	Posted - 2008.04.02 12:59:00 - [74] Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Liam Fremen 4x modulated tacyon (can't use t2 lazors, just minn and gall large t2) 2x true sansha large smartbomb (very handly on angel miss and useful) 1x C5L Xlarge booster (can't use t2) 1x shield boost amplifier (can't use t2) 1x heavy cap booster II (i just use it in 2-3 missions and is a safety) 4x racial specific t2 hardeners 3x true sansha heat sink 2x power diangostic II Stain :) Btw, yes i should buy a faction booster eheheh Where do you run missions? _________________________________________________
Liam Fremen Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.	Posted - 2008.04.02 13:01:00 - [75] Originally by: Aslord Originally by: Liam Fremen Edited by: Liam Fremen on 01/04/2008 20:44:57 I actually use my nightmare as only mission ship. I tryed navy mega, i tryed machariel, and i chosed nightmare, i got "half decent" shield skill but 14m in gunnery. 4x modulated tacyon (can't use t2 lazors, just minn and gall large t2) 2x true sansha large smartbomb (very handly on angel miss and useful) 1x C5L Xlarge booster (can't use t2) 1x shield boost amplifier (can't use t2) 1x heavy cap booster II (i just use it in 2-3 missions and is a safety) 4x racial specific t2 hardeners 3x true sansha heat sink 2x power diangostic II It works very well, much cpu available, much grid left, u can fit t2 and t2 booster without problem, carrying 3 kind of crystals u can fit 20 cap booster 800. :) i use it all time i want to do missions and it works a charme! And tacyon with this track bonus is something crazy ^^ with 3ccc rigs 1. get gist xl booster, replace power dias with flux coil. 2. with 3 cap recharger in mid slots (2 hardener is good enough) you can add a 4th heatsink 3. perma-run tank and guns. with a crystal set you can remove the shield amp and add anything you want. this is a fail safe mission nightmare Wow.. cool i must try it.... I'm not much used to pve :P _________________________________________________
Aslord Aslord Corp	Posted - 2008.04.02 13:18:00 - [76] with 2 tracking comp II you can push mf crystal to 45km at the expense of the 4th heatsink
Aslord	Posted - 2008.04.02 14:33:00 - [77] here my perma-tank and gank (gun blazing all the time)set-up low heat sink II heat sink II heat sink II heat Sink II Capacitor Flux Coil II med Gist b xl shield booster invulnerability field II invulnerability field II shield boost amp II cap recharger II cap recharger II cap recharger II Tachyon modulated energy beam I Tachyon modulated energy beam I Tachyon modulated energy beam I Tachyon modulated energy beam I rig 3xCCC I the only mod that is expensive is the gist XL shield booster. and it get better with faction heat sink and guns remove the 4th heat sink and you have a free med add a crystal set you can remove shield amp with tracking comp II MF crystal goes out to 44k optimal got to love the nightmare!
Mr Reeth	Posted - 2008.04.02 14:49:00 - [78] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Well you haven't seen a good nightmare setup yet then. Mine actually runs with a SS TC and TWO Officer TEs (which are actually better than TCs since the script nerf). So it will have a whole world of better tracking AND optimal than your Paladin. Okay, lets see your full setup then. Originally by: Leandro Salazar And it has more mids to spare for SeBo and AB. And yes, that means it tanks fine with just four slots. Thats the beauty of the Gist XL Boosters. And that Gist Booster is probably a large part of the reason why the pimp Nightmare is better than the pimp Paladin. Four slot tank? Okay now I really want to see your setup. Originally by: Leandro Salazar And you mention hitting cruisers within web range so much, I gotta wonder what kind of missions you run? Cannot be Amarr (which are really the only agents justifying either ship), as I run those and cruisers pretty much never make it close enough to me to even hit them with a domi web... I do run Amarr. And I mention frigs and cruisers. You never have ships inside 15km? Are you hitting the cruisers first? You ever have to wait for your drones to kill off a few frigs? Originally by: Leandro Salazar Sure, with cheaper gear the Paladin might be equal or even better than the Nightmare, but seriously, if you fly such a ship, your goal should be to properly pimp it. And that business of suicide ganking is probably cooked a whole lot hotter than it is actually eaten. Not to mention it has zero impact on what the ships capabilites are. ôà cooked a whole lot hotter than it is actually eaten.öà I like that. And you probably are right. What I like about this thread is we are both arguing that our ship is better. In most ship discussions people argue that their ship is worse. It speaks volumes for the quality of both ships.
buymycrap Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.04.02 21:03:00 - [79] Posted on an alt to avoid getting ganked Having flown the Paladin and the Nightmare with max skills, great mods and no efit i can say that it is the Nightmare which completes missions the quickest and is the most fun. Lows 3 Trues Sansha Heatsinks 2 Capacitor Flux Coil 2's Mids 1 Chelms Modified Capacitor Booster (800's) 1 Vepas Modified X-Large Shield Booster 1 Gist X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier 2 Pith A-Type Photon Scattering Field 2 Heat Dissipation Field 2's High 2 True Sansha Heavy Nosferatu 4 Mega Pulse Laser 2's (Scorch or Conflag) Rigs 2 CCC 2'S 1 Energy Ambit Extension 1 5 Hammerheads Implants of Note 5% Energy Turret Damage 5% All Turret Damage 5% Reduction in Turret Cap Need This setup is pricey i agree but i complete missions for an amarr agent faster than a Paladin. Some missions require large tech 2 tachyon's but since ive done both large pulse and beam specialisation 5 thats not a problem :) Cap is never a problem, tracking is never a problem, fitting is a breeze, the ship totally rocks. And the all important damage is much better than the Paladin no matter what any of you efitters state.
Layla Ashley	Posted - 2008.04.02 21:15:00 - [80] hm, the only advantage this fitting above a paladin is that you have one damage implant more (no need for pg implant). the ship itself would have same dps, as you don't have any tracing module fitted, and 3 hs. anyway, if i would have the skills for nightmare i wouldn't know which to fly. but i don't, so the question never rose for me
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.03 07:37:00 - [81] Originally by: Mr Reeth Four slot tank? Okay now I really want to see your setup. Well, here it comes: High: Chelm's Megabeam, Draclira's Megabeam, Selynne's Tachyon, Raysere's Tachyon, Heavy Dimmer, Auto-targeter Meds: Gist-B XL Shieldbooster, Pith A EM hard, Pith A therm hard, Gist C EM hard, SS Tracking Comp @ tracking, best named SeBo, Core X 100mn AB Lows: Gotan's Tracking Enhancer, Tobias' Tracking Enhancer, TS HS, Raysere HS, Vizan HS Rigs: 3* CCC-1 Drones: 2* Curator, 5* Hobgob-II For Rogue drone missions I switch out the Pith therm and Gist EM hards for two DG Invuls. And for some missions where there is a chance for something to go wrong, I switch out the Gotan TE for a DC. And of course I only used this for Blood, Sansha and Rogue drones, other missions are done in torp Golem. And before the suicide gankers among you start to drool and bomb your locator agents, I hardly run missions at all anymore atm and if I do I don't leave my system without a scout with all the goodies, so :P Quote: Originally by: Leandro Salazar And you mention hitting cruisers within web range so much, I gotta wonder what kind of missions you run? Cannot be Amarr (which are really the only agents justifying either ship), as I run those and cruisers pretty much never make it close enough to me to even hit them with a domi web... I do run Amarr. And I mention frigs and cruisers. You never have ships inside 15km? Are you hitting the cruisers first? You ever have to wait for your drones to kill off a few frigs? I kill frigs, then cruisers/BCs, then BS. And hardly any cruiser ever makes it closer than 20km. Maybe they do on those missions I run with my Golem, but theres a reason I run those with a Golem ;) And the few frigs that make it close are dealt with by my drones while I kill the cruisers usually. Doesn't take long. Quote: Originally by: Leandro Salazar Sure, with cheaper gear the Paladin might be equal or even better than the Nightmare, but seriously, if you fly such a ship, your goal should be to properly pimp it. And that business of suicide ganking is probably cooked a whole lot hotter than it is actually eaten. Not to mention it has zero impact on what the ships capabilites are. ôà cooked a whole lot hotter than it is actually eaten.öà I like that. And you probably are right. What I like about this thread is we are both arguing that our ship is better. In most ship discussions people argue that their ship is worse. It speaks volumes for the quality of both ships. Yes, Paladin is a fine ship too, no argument from me there. Just the Nightmare is better for pimpage imho. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Etho Demerzel	Posted - 2008.04.03 11:29:00 - [82] Originally by: Mike Shynoda Quote: Is that fourth damage mod doing anything? yes, alot.put some implants for dmg and you will see what happens. You are so wrong... Implants will affect both a 3 HS and a 4 HS fitting. The gain of the 4th HS is irrelevant, though, implants or not. Quote: Is the 11 day difference between racial battleship V and Marauders V more than the time it takes for a Caldari to train beams or an Amarrian to train shields? No. when you have 12mil sp yes it's a problem.but when you have over 30 mil sp you already havea shield trained. (specialy if you fly nano-shield-speedtank wich most of the eve players do) Most amarrian players with 30M sp don't have ANY shield skill. Quote: Quote: The Nightmare seems a little silly to me. Lasers are only good against the Amarrian enemies. And those enemies do em/therm damage which the Nightmare is weak against. With any pirate faction you do missions against you will find either your tank isn’t all that good or your weapons aren’t that good. with the NIghtmare bonus + dmg mods + implants i can blow your nice shiny raven t2 in less then 40 secs. We are talking PVE here, but if you insist that given you invest the same amount of money on both a torp raven will take down the Nighmare any day in PvP. Quote: Quote: Also there is the issue of skills. Sansha ships are the only ones with lasers and shields. The skills to use a Nightmare well don’t transfer to any other races ships. But I guess if you’re one of those 60mil+ sp players who can fly both Caldari and Amarrian ships perfectly it’s no problem for you. you need to have just caldari bs lvl 5 some shiled skills and amarr skills up to lvl 5 because it's primary an amarrian ship. You need shield skills, that is what he meant... ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...

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