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Reem Fairchild Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.25 19:19:00 - [31] Originally by: Alyth This is how you use bombers. And like this.
Bahhs Deep Aliastra	Posted - 2008.03.25 20:49:00 - [32] Originally by: Kraken Sra'vik I'm sorry, but there is no other ship in the game that you have to sit there and wait for the "circumstances to be just right". You're missing the point. Any well experienced SB pilot will know that there is much more to flying stealth bombers than just sitting on a gate all day waiting for a target to come through that they may not even kill... "circumstances to be just right" I meant this as in: Obivously you're not going to take on a BS all by yourself, or anything other than frigs/destroyers/intys, and obviously if there are more than 2 Inty/Nano ships on a gate you're attempting an attack at you're pretty stupid to try and kill anything that way. Originally by: Kraken Sra'vik This ship needs a covert cloak, plain and simple. How would it be overpowered? Plain and simple...It's fine the way it is. Do you think you should be able to warp Battleships cloaked? No, of course not. That would be stupid. That's what T2 BS's are for. Stealth Bombers may be in the Cov Ops class, but that's only because of their ability to move fast while cloaked and deliver a large Alpha without locking delay from decloaking. If you were to combine that and warping cloaked then you are just asking for a ridiculous ammount of large scale SB fleets, thread whining, and ultimately a nerf bat. The overpowering would be on a "nano gang" scale. You will see huge gangs of SB's in null sec going through and raping anything they come across. (with use of their tacklers of course) And all the while no one will know exactly where they are until they've left the system. This will allow a lot of room for log in traps as well. "Where are they?" "Probably watching us waiting for one of us to leave the POS, just stay inside and you'll be fine." "That's nice to know..." Originally by: Kraken Sra'vik In regard to your first point here, that will be answered above. As for the second point: It would not make covert ops obsolete at all. Atm covert ops are used for scouting enemy movements and scanning out loggers / safespotters. Even if you give the stealthbomber covert cloak, just hack apart its warp speed. This will keep covert ops as king in the scouting dept. You stating a nerf to the warp speed has just admitted a flaw...Just proving my point that there are problems with SBs warping cloaked. Cutting the warp speed down is a horrible nerf...however it would keep Cov Ops on top for that matter in terms of speed. However, even if that were the case people will still use it to scout with the natural bonuses. What would happen to the SB's bonus to cloaked speed though? I don't know about you, but I rather enjoy getting my SB into position right on top of a target at over 500m/s cloaked. Originally by: Bahhs Deep Hit and run tactics, and well coordinated attacks with other SB's and tacklers are what the SB's are meant to be used. And they excell at it. Stealth bombers would get no extra DPS from a covert cloak. They'd still need tacklers and other SB's to get anything done. Think before you immediately start screaming. Where did I say it would get extra DPS? I'm not seeing it. It's overpowering because it allows way too much freedom of action for that kind of firepower with no locking delay after decloaking. It's like giving a Rapier or any other Recon the ability to lock as soon as in uncloaks. You can't find a way arround getting somewhere without being seen...It's called Bookmarks. Sure they will see you on scan, and they will take time to setup. But it WORKS. If you attack a gatecamp, kill someone and warp out, and then warp back in. They wont think you are near them because they never saw you in the OV. Therefore making them think they are safe when you're sneaking up on them again. This can be done on large scales with many SB's. If you can't figure out how to use a SB effectively the way they are...then you don't deserve to be able to warp cloaked.
Paegasis Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.25 21:58:00 - [33] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Alyth This is how you use bombers. And like this. Im confused...doesn't look like this character uses SB's very much
Reem Fairchild Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.25 22:33:00 - [34] Originally by: Paegasis Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Alyth This is how you use bombers. And like this. Im confused...doesn't look like this character uses SB's very much Not the character. The kill (that the page should have loaded centered on). Don't blame me for the crappy way battleclinic works. My main character is one of the Stealth Bombers on the killmail. I was in Agony at the time.
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.03.25 22:41:00 - [35] the only boost they need is to get rid of the cloak scan res penalty ... or at least tone it down a little Waiting for the patch that patches the last patch ...
Aseir Miristar Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.03.25 23:07:00 - [36] Edited by: Aseir Miristar on 25/03/2008 23:13:16 Damn CEO alt.
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.25 23:13:00 - [37] Congratulations, you managed to kill single ships with overwhelming numbers. ANY ship will kill a target with 5-10v1 odds, stealth bombers are nothing special here. Same with killing random haulers and stuff, ANY ship can do that (try gatecamping with an interdictor instead). Fly recons instead of those bombers, and you'll do even better. The problem with stealth bombers is they don't have the covert ops cloak. Remove the useless bombs and give the covops cloak instead. Without it, you have two problems: 1) Sitting and waiting for targets is boring as hell. A ship that is worthless in a moving gang is a ship that sits in station 90% of the time. 2) When warping in on a target, cloaking is pointless. You show up on their overview, so your cover is blown the moment you show up. And your missiles will hit most targets from where you warp in, so there's no advantage to cloaking to get into position. Everyone knows you're there, and any target you could actually kill will simply warp out while you waste time cloaking. Obviously, you could just wait until mid-battle to warp in so they're distracted, but again, ANY ship can do that just fine, without the cloak. The sad fact is, 90% of the time a cloaked Raven will do the job better than any stealth bomber.
Kraken Sra'vik Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.25 23:56:00 - [38] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Congratulations, you managed to kill single ships with overwhelming numbers. ANY ship will kill a target with 5-10v1 odds, stealth bombers are nothing special here. Same with killing random haulers and stuff, ANY ship can do that (try gatecamping with an interdictor instead). Fly recons instead of those bombers, and you'll do even better. The problem with stealth bombers is they don't have the covert ops cloak. Remove the useless bombs and give the covops cloak instead. Without it, you have two problems: 1) Sitting and waiting for targets is boring as hell. A ship that is worthless in a moving gang is a ship that sits in station 90% of the time. 2) When warping in on a target, cloaking is pointless. You show up on their overview, so your cover is blown the moment you show up. And your missiles will hit most targets from where you warp in, so there's no advantage to cloaking to get into position. Everyone knows you're there, and any target you could actually kill will simply warp out while you waste time cloaking. Obviously, you could just wait until mid-battle to warp in so they're distracted, but again, ANY ship can do that just fine, without the cloak. The sad fact is, 90% of the time a cloaked Raven will do the job better than any stealth bomber. But Jesus Christ, if they can warp cloaked everyone and their mom is instantly going to be using them and you are going to get Titans being insta popped man. Can't you SEE!!! /sarcasm.
Reem Fairchild Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.26 00:23:00 - [39] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Congratulations, you managed to kill single ships And how would you know from the kill mail that the dead ship's side had no other ships there? Quote: with overwhelming numbers. ANY ship will kill a target with 5-10v1 odds, stealth bombers are nothing special here. Same with killing random haulers and stuff, ANY ship can do that (try gatecamping with an interdictor instead). Fly recons instead of those bombers, and you'll do even better. Overwhelming numbers of smaller and cheaper ships that are extremely difficult to catch and kill when the other side's overwhelming numbers arrive on the scene.
Bahhs Deep Aliastra	Posted - 2008.03.26 01:09:00 - [40] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Congratulations, you managed to kill single ships with overwhelming numbers. ANY ship will kill a target with 5-10v1 odds, stealth bombers are nothing special here. Same with killing random haulers and stuff, ANY ship can do that (try gatecamping with an interdictor instead). Fly recons instead of those bombers, and you'll do even better. The problem with stealth bombers is they don't have the covert ops cloak. Remove the useless bombs and give the covops cloak instead. Without it, you have two problems: 1) Sitting and waiting for targets is boring as hell. A ship that is worthless in a moving gang is a ship that sits in station 90% of the time. 2) When warping in on a target, cloaking is pointless. You show up on their overview, so your cover is blown the moment you show up. And your missiles will hit most targets from where you warp in, so there's no advantage to cloaking to get into position. Everyone knows you're there, and any target you could actually kill will simply warp out while you waste time cloaking. Obviously, you could just wait until mid-battle to warp in so they're distracted, but again, ANY ship can do that just fine, without the cloak. The sad fact is, 90% of the time a cloaked Raven will do the job better than any stealth bomber. Ever heard of offgrid bookmarks? Yea... If you can't figure out how to use Stealth Bombers as they are now, then you don't deserve to be able to warp cloaked.
Julius Romanus Fatalix Inc. Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.26 02:04:00 - [41] Edited by: Julius Romanus on 26/03/2008 02:04:46 Bombers as a class are nearly perfect as is. Bombs are over priced. Other than that, nothing more to see here. And hey, if you insist on being able to gank cruisers solo, pimp it. CN launchers/bcu's = 300dps
Veng3ance Multiversal Enterprise Inc. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.03.26 02:06:00 - [42] Yeah......buff stealth bombers.....they are so "underpowered"
Julius Romanus Fatalix Inc. Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.26 02:58:00 - [43] You know....you're right. double base speed, scan res, and 100% role bonus to dmg plz
Lady Titsburg Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.26 07:23:00 - [44] The problem with Stealth bombers is simply that you can only ambush a gate. You can't do anything else. Otherwise you are just pimped frig with cruise launchers and everyone can see where you go... Of course cruise missiles with those bonuses are great for taking out intys with alpha strike etc. But it really should be able to use cov ops cloaks and ACTUALLY MOVE AS CLOAKED.. IMHO Black Ops battleships should do that too. What's the point that you can use covert cynos to get your fleet without visible cyno to system X, but your whole fleet is sitting duck and can't move without exposing themselves... Isn't that the point with covert ops - you stay hidden untill you strike. But you can't do that since you must break your cloak if you want to move anywhere in the system..
Lrd Byron Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.26 07:51:00 - [45] allowing them to fit torp launchers I think is a great idea, not to mention a hell of a lot closer to what role its namesake implies. 'Stealth Bomber' to me does not imply taking pot shots at frigates from 100km. Use your speed while cloaked bonus to maneuver into range of a battleship, and you and 4 friends uncloak and annihilate, sounds like a good time to me. That pipe dream aside, bombers could use some more CPU and PG. God forbid you even t1 fit the thing without a Co Processor or an Aux power core to even consider a non cookie cutter setup with a mwd.
Sett Runesabre Virulence. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.28 01:28:00 - [46] Originally by: whatugunedo theirs a 0.0 gate camp that has 3 cruisers 1 interceptor and 1 sniper battle ship (not a great setup but bare with me) my obvius target is the interceptor... so i get into 30 of him unkloak missiles away and cloak. If im lucky the sniper was slacking and didnt even atempt to lock me.. and the interceptor dies.. now im sure the 3 cruisers have seen me so they all steam role into my last seen direction and are doing 1-2k it will take them no longer than 10-15 seconds to close the gap and be ontop of me. Ofc ill be aligned whilst cloked at this point and then uncloking to warp out but the sniper bs is well aware of my presence and is waiting to alpha me with a full rack of arty. Dunno if thats the way it would go down.. please tell me otherwise ;[ It's not how it would go down, if deployed correctly. To truly get your money's worth out of a stealth bomber, you gotta use your brass from time to time. Take some chances. Sure, while you're perfecting your craft, you'll suffer some losses, but once you get it down, you'll find your losses being fewer and farther between. In the scenario that you described, yes, the inty would be your target. Your first mistake is thinking you need to recloak. Because of the cloaked speed bonus, a stealth bomber warps stupidly fast. While you're cloaked, you're running 400ish (for example) when you uncloak, your max speed begins dropping to 230ish. Warpout speed is 75% of max, so as soon as you uncloak, you're running waaaay above warpout, which means, if you're aligned, the second you hit warp, you're safe. So with this in mind, what you want to do is, get as close as you can to the inty without getting your cloak knocked off before you're ready. Align to warp. Uncloak, let loose your missiles. If you're close enough, you'll have plenty of time to wait for the splash, then warp out, exposing yourself to virtually no danger. Then you warp back in to your sneak BM (that I explained earlier) and repeat the cycle. Of course if all that's left are cruisers and the BS, your fun might be over, but having just lost their tackler, your opponents may have suffered enough of a shot to their morale to vacate. Originally by: Kraken Sra'vik I'm sorry, but there is no other ship in the game that you have to sit there and wait for the "circumstances to be just right". Good pilots make their own opportunities, whether they're in an SB or a BS. They're familiar with their turf, they have dozens of BMs, and they plan out their deployment. They don't just sit and wait for the golden egg to fall in their laps. If you think you can just pick any random gate and ambush successfully, without any research, then bombers aren't for you.
Megan Maynard Out of Order	Posted - 2008.03.28 05:39:00 - [47] Originally by: Alyth This is how you use bombers. Those guys are annoying....... Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit.
Megan Maynard Out of Order	Posted - 2008.03.28 05:42:00 - [48] And nothing says hello like 4-5 bombers sending 12-15 cruise missiles at you in one volley. You just can't tank that kind of alpha. Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit.
Julius Romanus Fatalix Inc. Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.28 06:04:00 - [49] Originally by: Megan Maynard And nothing says hello like 4-5 bombers sending 12-15 cruise missiles at you in one volley. You just can't tank that kind of alpha. Thats only about 13k dmg. about the same as 5 drakes alpha =P impressive but you arent going to 1 volley a battlecruiser let alone a battleship ------------------ For Medicinal Use Only.
Megan Maynard Out of Order	Posted - 2008.03.28 06:13:00 - [50] Originally by: Julius Romanus Originally by: Megan Maynard And nothing says hello like 4-5 bombers sending 12-15 cruise missiles at you in one volley. You just can't tank that kind of alpha. Thats only about 13k dmg. about the same as 5 drakes alpha =P impressive but you arent going to 1 volley a battlecruiser let alone a battleship Notice i didn't say anything of the sort. They aren't going to last long however. Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit.
Kali Ananda Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2008.03.28 18:38:00 - [51] Stealth bombers + off grid bookmarks = fun Stealth bombers + small warp bubbles = loads of fun Stealth bombers + low sec belts with ratters blindly moving belt to belt = Juicy! Use the ship right and its a low cost fun PVP ship that is fine as is. Kali Ananda POD-U Director
Julius Romanus Fatalix Inc. Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:07:00 - [52] Originally by: Megan Maynard Originally by: Julius Romanus Originally by: Megan Maynard And nothing says hello like 4-5 bombers sending 12-15 cruise missiles at you in one volley. You just can't tank that kind of alpha. Thats only about 13k dmg. about the same as 5 drakes alpha =P impressive but you arent going to 1 volley a battlecruiser let alone a battleship Notice i didn't say anything of the sort. They aren't going to last long however. True. I must have misinterpreted the 'you cant tank that alpha' line. ------------------ For Medicinal Use Only.
Ulstan Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:22:00 - [53] Originally by: Alyth This is how you use bombers. To kill a single tech I tech I fit ship with TEN tech II ships? Uh, color me unimpressed.
Fitz Chivalry eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:57:00 - [54] Edited by: Fitz Chivalry on 28/03/2008 19:59:03 Everything you need to know about how much SB can rock when in the right hands may be found here. House of Prawn - The Bombadeers We regularly destroyed BS heavy gangs and took out ships from within large heavy fleets with our SB gangs, you just have to use a bit of patience and skill.
Alyth Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.28 20:06:00 - [55] Originally by: Ulstan Originally by: Alyth This is how you use bombers. To kill a single tech I tech I fit ship with TEN tech II ships? Uh, color me unimpressed. No, to decloak all those ships on cue, pick your target out of the 40 man blob that he was part of, pop him and bugger off. Rinse and repeat. ------------------------------------------- Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Kraken Sra'vik Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.28 20:08:00 - [56] Originally by: Alyth Originally by: Ulstan Originally by: Alyth This is how you use bombers. To kill a single tech I tech I fit ship with TEN tech II ships? Uh, color me unimpressed. No, to decloak all those ships on cue, pick your target out of the 40 man blob that he was part of, pop him and bugger off. Rinse and repeat. If you were more skilled you would have picked more than one target, no?
Lisento Slaven The Drekla Consortium VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.28 22:18:00 - [57] Originally by: Kraken Sra'vik Originally by: Alyth Originally by: Ulstan Originally by: Alyth This is how you use bombers. To kill a single tech I tech I fit ship with TEN tech II ships? Uh, color me unimpressed. No, to decloak all those ships on cue, pick your target out of the 40 man blob that he was part of, pop him and bugger off. Rinse and repeat. If you were more skilled you would have picked more than one target, no? Please imagine the situation and try to understand why these hp-poor ships do not have the opportunity to fire on a second target. Especially when they need to survive in order to kill anything. You lose one ship in that stealth bomber gang and you lose a huge amount of DPS. Who knows if that group they were fighting even contained a couple inties or interdictors... In my opinion the PROBLEM with stealth bombers is that you have to sit down with someone who knows how to use them. You need instructional video and classes where as almost anyone can sit down in any ship if they have the basic concept of how their weapons work and how to tank something. --- Put in space whales!
Corstaad Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.28 22:28:00 - [58] Thats what make them a great ship. With there amount of mid slots on a frig there pretty much telling you its a gang boat. I get the whole you might as well bring other ship arguements but trying out of box setups is what makes interesting gameplay.
Kraken Sra'vik Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.28 22:29:00 - [59] Edited by: Kraken Sra''vik on 28/03/2008 22:30:44 Originally by: Lisento Slaven Originally by: Kraken Sra'vik Originally by: Alyth Originally by: Ulstan Originally by: Alyth This is how you use bombers. To kill a single tech I tech I fit ship with TEN tech II ships? Uh, color me unimpressed. No, to decloak all those ships on cue, pick your target out of the 40 man blob that he was part of, pop him and bugger off. Rinse and repeat. If you were more skilled you would have picked more than one target, no? Please imagine the situation and try to understand why these hp-poor ships do not have the opportunity to fire on a second target. Especially when they need to survive in order to kill anything. You lose one ship in that stealth bomber gang and you lose a huge amount of DPS. Who knows if that group they were fighting even contained a couple inties or interdictors... In my opinion the PROBLEM with stealth bombers is that you have to sit down with someone who knows how to use them. You need instructional video and classes where as almost anyone can sit down in any ship if they have the basic concept of how their weapons work and how to tank something. I was saying you don't need 10 for one frigate. Pick two targets or more, depending, and divvy out the bombers on each. lol nm didn't even realize it wasn't a frigate. That's what I read on the other guys post instead of t1 ship. Nm.
Scurvy Wench Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.28 22:40:00 - [60] Come fly in the Stain region and see if you think SBs are weak. I'm sure you'll be delightedly surprised.

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