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welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.23 16:21:00 -
[1]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 23/03/2008 16:22:25
ECCM has a considerable effect.
Raven without ECCM = 60% chance to be jammed by racial.
Raven with lowslot ECCM = 40% chance to be jammed by racial.
Raven with midslot ECCM = 30% chance to be jammed by racial.
If your entire gang is fitted with ECCM the cumulative effect of any opposing ECM ships is reduced hugely. You can also kill the ECM first and bring your own  !
Caldari ewar is very powerful because its utter rubbish at anything else and has no solo application what so ever. The other races don't suffer from this so Caldari ewar is stronger as a result. they're purely gang ships which means you either counter them with your own gang or bring your own ECM & ECCM.
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you all smell! |
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.03.24 16:34:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Cerui Tarshiel
This however is offset by the fact it's got no self defence except for chance based ewar
Yeah, because its not safe enough to sit at 150km distance?
If you don't play this game well enough to deal with a range advantage then thats your problem, not the ships. ECM is easily dealt with if you know how. It's been like that since day 1 in 2003. Problem is theres a very fine line between being pointless and being overpowered with ECM.
If they nerf it again you better bloody well believe that the Rook/Falcons combat application should be increased inline with the other 3 races.
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you all smell! |
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.03.24 16:38:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Ayanami Nova
There is zero reason to choose a rook over a falcon, I fly a falcon and it is too powerful. reduce its range or reduce its ECM bonus to 10% or 15%. The rook should be better at its specialised ECM role.
This is a universal problem for all recons (except pilgrim vs curse), the cloaking ones simply are better. Cloaking recons need a serious nerf and/or combat recons need a serious dps buff.
Also codswallop, Huginn is infinitely better in a close range fight, locks faster, tanks better and does a hell of alot more damage. Curse is a fantastic ship but we already know you've made your bias little mind up on that one don't we? Pilgrim needs a nos/neut range boost.
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you all smell! |
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.03.24 16:45:00 -
[4]
Like I say you won't see reason so...
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you all smell! |
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 03:10:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Merdaneth
....
You choose to pvp like that mate, not us.
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welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 03:28:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Endless Subversion
The falcon is beyond belief overpowered. ECCM doesn't come close to being effective enough.
We've been fighting a corp using heavy amounts of falcon pilots. They almost always have more pilots than we do. Recently we had 2 falcon pilots PERMA jam four battleships all fielding ECCM. It's a joke. Not one of the battleships had more than 1 lock that entire 'fight'.
Your tacklers can't tackle and ECCM, your battleships can't lock long enough to shoot anything. The falcons cross jam to allow escapes and easily fit a 1600 plate, so they've plenty of buffer. It's absurd, between cloaks and jams you never kill buffered falcons. I've heard people talking about dropping drones on them or 'insta' popping them. What a load of bull.
A good indicator of game imbalance is when the only 'counter' is to bring some of your own.
I don't believe you tbqfh. If you can't figure out a way to counter it then perhaps its you thats the problem?
Quote:
They almost always have more pilots than we do.
Then get more pilots that know what they're doing.
Fact is the Falcon is a gang ship, what this means is that basically every argument in this thread in which balance is being discussed is invalid and irrelevant. As soon as more than one ship is involved its you the victim who wasn't prepared that got it wrong, not the ship.
Yes ECM is powerful, yes its a pain in the arse but there is NO direct balance conflict with any other ship. It's useless alone and that is about the heaviest price a pvp ship can pay in this game.
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you all smell! |
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 23:56:00 -
[7]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 27/03/2008 00:01:20
Well aslong as the Falcon gets a 40m3 drone bay & 3 turret or missile bonused high slots then I'll be happy with an ECM effectiveness reduction to say, 10%.
edit: Better it stays how it is now though, the ultimate ewar boat with no offensive ability what so ever.
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you all smell! |
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.03.27 00:42:00 -
[8]
Yeah its kinda crap, I'm just trying to get a reaction out of these jokers. It's just dandy the way it is as far as I'm concerned.
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you all smell! |
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.03.28 21:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Danny Centurai
As we all should know by now Falcons and Rooks are gang ships if they were soloWTFpwnage mobiles there would be a problem.
Yes but we dont want them totally dominating and killing small gang warfare. With small gangs its either you bring your own falcon or you lose to a gang with a falcon.
With the exception of about 6 months from mid 2007 ECM has always been this powerful. It was crap during the 6 months that not many people flew ECM ships which is why CCP buffed it. The problem is you and this chronosx joker above. You're bashing it before you've even tried to deal with it, tbh you're probably just crap at the game mate. o7
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you all smell! |
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.03.28 22:25:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: welsh wizard
Yes but we dont want them totally dominating and killing small gang warfare. With small gangs its either you bring your own falcon or you lose to a gang with a falcon.
With the exception of about 6 months from mid 2007 ECM has always been this powerful. It was crap during those 6 months so not many people flew ECM ships which is why CCP buffed it. The problem isnt the game its you and this chronosx joker above, you're bashing it before you've even attempted to deal with it (my assumption). Maybe you should play something a bit easier? o7
Huh? Ive prolly seen more sides of eve pvp then youll ever see. ECM sucks and is killing the spirit of the game. Maybe you should go look for another game if you can only play with ECM ships.
You're like I was 18 months ago, arguing anything and everything on these silly forums without any real evidence and just a subjective opinion. I have no desire to get into a ****ing contest with you but lets just say I've seen my fair share of Eve, far more than any 2006 character has anyway.
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you all smell! |
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.03.29 02:24:00 -
[11]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 29/03/2008 02:26:36
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: welsh wizard
You're like I was 18 months ago, arguing anything and everything on these silly forums without any real evidence and just a subjective opinion. I have no desire to get into a ****ing contest with you but lets just say I've seen my fair share of Eve, far more than any 2006 character has anyway.
So when are you then finally going to admit that ECM is out of balance? Because you know it is.
Never, it was overpowered when every monkey was fitting it on their velator, then it was hit hard and Scorpions, Rooks & Falcons became a rare site. As a result CCP buffed it because the ships were completely crap at well, everything...
It isn't going to change again except maybe a reduction to 15% strength on the falcon because these ships are supposed to be fight deciders. The skill is in the counter of which (despite your opinion) there are many. You come in here telling us that ECM is overpowered and you're faced with a bunch of people who have played the game for upwards of 3-5 years telling you that it isnt. The evidence is everywhere, ECM hasn't changed much (in terms of effectiveness) since 2004 and guess what? People are still learning how to counter it with ease.
I'm guessing you lost an engagement because of a few ECM boats? Big whoop, we've all been there. Learn how to counter it and come back fighting... I've lead fleets & small gangs that have done it many a time and will continue to do it because I've spent the last 4 years learning how.
Oh and ECCM does work well. It's no use looking at the effect against a single ship because you're never going to face a single Rook/Falcon/Scorpion/generic ECM alone are you? If your entire gang/fleet fits ECCM then you reduce your fleets chance of getting jammed by about 20-50%. Thats a huge margin dude, end of story. Remember it only takes one of your mates ships unjammed to get a few rounds off at an ECM boat and its gone. If its at 4,856km then get a covert spot on it/fly a fast ship at it. If you can't do that then thats your problem not the ships.
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