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Scout101
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.22 23:17:00 -
[1]
Everyones got a falcon - there rediculously overpowered, being perma jammed isnt fun at all.
dual eccm and still its perma jam or if not another falcon comes in and jams. its completly f'ed up atm.
Out there in eve pvp its like it was where multi-spec were OTT powered.
might nice to have a all out 100% increase to all sensor strengths of all ships or hell reduced there jam time to 5 seconds.
Its one aspect of eve where i cant bear, be nice if jamming was taken out completly.
And the falcon was boosted aswell. What the hell was that all about?
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Fluidality
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.03.22 23:20:00 -
[2]
Let me see if I got this right... You don't want a specialized Jamming ship to be able to jam you? |
ElCoCo
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.22 23:20:00 -
[3]
I'm of the opinion that the falcon should have 15% to ECM strength per level as there's no real reason to use the rook due to that.
Other than that, it's fine. |
Graalum
Foundation
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.03.22 23:23:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: ElCoCo
I'm of the opinion that the falcon should have 15% to ECM strength per level as there's no real reason to use the rook due to that.
Other than that, it's fine.
sounds reasonable
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joshmorris
AnTi.
Atrocitas
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Posted - 2008.03.22 23:24:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Fluidality
Let me see if I got this right... You don't want a specialized Jamming ship to be able to jam you?
Sorta like atm where specialised damp ships cant damp very well :(
You know ecms gonna get nerfed :P
Hope not though, rather damps get buffed so you can at least put a damp or 2 on a falcon to make it get closer to the fight.
Uber idea solves all !! |
BloodyWomble
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.22 23:24:00 -
[6]
Signed.
You should get a sec hit if you use ecm.
In fact every time you undock in a caldari ship you
should lose sec.
Address the balance now!!
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Syrenea
Blood Corsair's
Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.03.22 23:25:00 -
[7]
heh funny.
Well i love the falcon, but even though your whines are pretty childish i do agree its overpowered.
I liked how jamming was before it was chanced based must say. Cycle jam anyone? 
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Reem Fairchild
Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.22 23:32:00 -
[8]
If a tech 2 EWar ship couldn't reliably kill the sensors of even one single ship, what would be the point of flying one? Even if it could do that, but could only disable a single ship it would still not be worth flying over a battleship or another tech 2 cruiser in small gang or fleet.
It needs to disable one to counter for the heavy ship (with a much better tank) that you could have brought in its place and then a second to actually be making itself useful.
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MindBender
Foundry.
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Posted - 2008.03.22 23:33:00 -
[9]
Wow, this gave me a good chuckle. Were you even playing when they put in the first ECM nerf? Now it's pretty easy to get by not having your ship Jammed. It's called fitting an ECCM. All you need is one Midslot and you give yourself a good chance of not having yourself get Jammed.
The corp I'm with we use ECM and we also use ECCM if we know the fight we might be going into has ECM with them. Now, the mear fact we are all almost all Armor tankers helps us greatly, but you picked a Shield tank... not my fault.
Falcon is easy to counter with another Jammer or putting on an ECCM. Learn to use 'em and you may have some fun. Oh, also... the Scorpion... great little ship in a support gang fleet. Falcons don't even know what hit them.
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DeadDuck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.22 23:34:00 -
[10]
Usually a ECCM mod helps a bit ...
________________
God is my Wingman |
Megan Maynard
Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.03.22 23:35:00 -
[11]
You all realize ECM was nerfed a long time ago right? That this version of ECM is watered down from what it use to be?
Believe it or not, a falcon can't perma jam everything. And if you jump right on top of him, forget ever getting jammed, especially if you have drones.
Recon ships are doing exactly what they are supposed to do. And they are NASTY at it.
And don't let amarr pilots tell you the curse is broken. (The pilgrim on the other hand.....)
And gallente recon pilots need to shut up. A warp scram range bonus is more then enough power in a ship, getting a damp boost would make it the best gank ship in the freaking game. Just sit off 60 km from someone, while your drones and launchers do all the work? No.
Recon ships, except the pilgrim, are completely in line and whooping ass like their price suggests they should do.
Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit. |
BloodyWomble
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.22 23:41:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
If a tech 2 EWar ship couldn't reliably kill the sensors of even one single ship, what would be the point of flying one? Even if it could do that, but could only disable a single ship it would still not be worth flying over a battleship or another tech 2 cruiser in small gang or fleet.
It needs to disable one to counter for the heavy ship (with a much better tank) that you could have brought in its place and then a second to actually be making itself useful.
Oh hell you mean it would have to be called an arazu or a pilgrim then ?
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Reem Fairchild
Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.22 23:42:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
And gallente recon pilots need to shut up. A warp scram range bonus is more then enough power in a ship, getting a damp boost would make it the best gank ship in the freaking game. Just sit off 60 km from someone, while your drones and launchers do all the work? No.
48 km (and that's with recon 5). Even if you were right about the usefullnes of the warp scrambling range (which you are not) and the Gallente recons didn't cap out incredibly fast running the modules they need to run in order to work (which they do), still what about the Celestis? All it has is damps. Is it right that the blackbird is so much more powerful?
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Waxau
The Fated
Odyssey.
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Posted - 2008.03.22 23:42:00 -
[14]
Oh my...is it that time of the month already?
ECM is fine. Its nearly pointless on non-ecm ships (nano/nos/ecm domis anyone?) and is powerful on ecm-spec'd ships. Whenever ECM ships fail in their role (luck based might i remind you?) we're open to death. a volley from a gank snipe bs, and we're instapopped near enough.
Dual ECCM will near enough make a falcon NEED to put all his/her jammers on you, in order to actually get you jammed. And again, its luck based, even with a few numbers on its side. Chances are however, you wont be jammed, and deffinately not for long. Although, thats in terms of gang warfare. If you're fighting a falcon (and possibly more) solo....Why on earth should one or two modules counteract the entirety of a specialised ship, with you doing zero in actual skill?
And the falcon was boosted, due to asses using ecm on every and any ship. Thus ECM got nerfed to high heaven, and the falcon never got the love it deserved. Now it has.
Stop whining, and get on.
honestly..
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Waxau
The Fated
Odyssey.
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Posted - 2008.03.22 23:50:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
Originally by: Megan Maynard
And gallente recon pilots need to shut up. A warp scram range bonus is more then enough power in a ship, getting a damp boost would make it the best gank ship in the freaking game. Just sit off 60 km from someone, while your drones and launchers do all the work? No.
48 km (and that's with recon 5). Even if you were right about the usefullnes of the warp scrambling range (which you are not) and the Gallente recons didn't cap out incredibly fast running the modules they need to run in order to work (which they do), still what about the Celestis? All it has is damps. Is it right that the blackbird is so much more powerful?
Yes.
Blackbird = luck based. A jammer is a roll of the dice, and with the blackbird, its about a 1/4 chance of success of jamming.
An arazu? put targetting range damps on a ship, and you damp them down to a set range of what? 13km on some bs? And its not luck based, its permanent. Plus, ALL arazu pilots ive known have at some point used faction warp scrams on their arazus. 48km is a cheap mans range.
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Bodhisattvas
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.23 00:02:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
You all realize ECM was nerfed a long time ago right? That this version of ECM is watered down from what it use to be?
Believe it or not, a falcon can't perma jam everything. And if you jump right on top of him, forget ever getting jammed, especially if you have drones.
Recon ships are doing exactly what they are supposed to do. And they are NASTY at it.
And don't let amarr pilots tell you the curse is broken. (The pilgrim on the other hand.....)
And gallente recon pilots need to shut up. A warp scram range bonus is more then enough power in a ship, getting a damp boost would make it the best gank ship in the freaking game. Just sit off 60 km from someone, while your drones and launchers do all the work? No.
Recon ships, except the pilgrim, are completely in line and whooping ass like their price suggests they should do.
Moron....
***dari ecm boats can do their over powered thing from great distance.
Noble righteous proud gallante boats have to be relatively close with no means
of protection since the damp nerf.
I'll explain seeing since you are rather stupid on the subject of gallente recons.
The example you give of 60km indicates said gallente recon pilot spends 300mill isk on
2 single point faction disruptors, in reality its more like 48km with recon 5 using t2
disruptors.
Said pilot can't really stay around too long as his damps have been nerfed
rather badly and ships don't really have to travel too close to be able to counter
his (3) nerfed damps, and thats one ship he has to counter!!
He can fit resolution scripts I guess but your average mwd cruiser, bc is gonna
have lock by the time he casually saunters over to the poor gallente recon pilot.
Of course the gallante recon pilot can fit mwd also but he is no match in speed
to the rapidly approaching cruiser, bc.
Oh but wait the ebil gallente pilot can erm drone, missile spam, hyrid his assailant to death !! no actually as he has **** for damage!!
Ironically if he fits ecm drones or warps off right away (defeats his being there)
he has a chance of living.
Where as ***dari ecm boat sitting 200km off has all the time in the world to deliver
his payload without having to do anything but paint his fingernails or change his tampon.
And thats on muliple targets.
So the disruptor bonus you say !!!! naaa heavy dictor has kinda negated that particular
niche as he only needs one point and nothing gets away, excellent tank to boot!! why
use gallante for that particular purpose anymore.
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Reem Fairchild
Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.23 00:04:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 23/03/2008 00:05:33
Originally by: Waxau
Yes.
Blackbird = luck based.
Yes, there is a random chance (well, not always) of jamming the target, but when you do jam the target it's sensors are gone. It can't target anything at all for that cycle.
And yes, a dampener on a target has a 100% chance (within optimal range at least, otherwise it is also random) of reducing the target's targeting range or targeting speed. But that's an effect that, depending on the situation, may or may not hinder the target's fighting ability at all.
That's balance in of itself. There's no need for dampener's to be weaker to account for the random effect of ECM. It's already accounted for in the way they function.
Right now the ECM ships can do their proper jobs as EWar ships like they're supposed to. And that's how it should be. But the dampening ships can't.
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DARTHxFREE
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.03.23 00:07:00 -
[18]
Edited by: DARTHxFREE on 23/03/2008 00:07:07
"for gods sake" = Blasphemy
you don't wanna anger those religious zelots, you wont like them when thier angry
/join Cheeze & Whine Club
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Waxau
The Fated
Odyssey.
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Posted - 2008.03.23 00:09:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 23/03/2008 00:05:33
Originally by: Waxau
Yes.
Blackbird = luck based.
Yes, there is a random chance (well, not always) of jamming the target, but when you do jam the target it's sensors are gone. It can't target anything at all for that cycle.
And yes, a dampener on a target has a 100% chance (within optimal range at least, otherwise it is also random) of reducing the target's targeting range or targeting speed. But that's an effect that, depending on the situation, may or may not hinder the target's fighting ability at all.
That's balance in of itself. There's no need for dampener's to be weaker to account for the random effect of ECM. It's already accounted for in the way they function.
Right now the ECM ships can do their proper jobs as EWar ships like they're supposed to. And that's how it should be. But the dampening ships can't.
Agreed - When the damp nerf first came in, i made alot of comments on the nerf being unneeded, and over the top. And i dont even FIT damps on any of my ships, let alone fly Gallente.
However, to that extent, this nerf is EXACTLY the same as what happened to ECM.
The masses used said module on ANY ship they could.
It became the staple diet of any ship fitting.
CCP took measures to reduce it.
Those spec'd in it suffered.
---------
Theres no need to nerf ECM - Theres a need to boost the Arazu/Lach/Keres/Celestis
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joshmorris
AnTi.
Atrocitas
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Posted - 2008.03.23 00:10:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
And gallente recon pilots need to shut up. A warp scram range bonus is more then enough power in a ship, getting a damp boost would make it the best gank ship in the freaking game. Just sit off 60 km from someone, while your drones and launchers do all the work? No.
Recon ships, except the pilgrim, are completely in line and whooping ass like their price suggests they should do.
You fail. A falcon or rook can already perma jam some1 from 60km + protect ALL his gang friends and pump out roughy the same constant dps. (drones can be destroyed very easilly)
Gallente recons need to be buffed so that they force targets to get closer (thats the whole point). Not damp them to 24k so they can still do everything as if they wernt even being damped.
As for the warp scram bonus ANY ceptor with the disrupt bonus then put a faction disruptor on that does the job just as good (even better) and has more survivability.
Oh and, if you jump on top of an arazu forget being effected by anything you will defiantly kill him whereas a falcon can jam then cloak / warp off.
Uber idea solves all !! |
Grimpak
Trinity Nova
Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.23 00:16:00 -
[21]
remember when I said that people would be screaming to nerf ECM boats next?
just call me nostradamus. I don't mind .
---
Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards |
SoftRevolution
Complicity.
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Posted - 2008.03.23 00:26:00 -
[22]
The Falcon actually does what it says on the can.
If it couldn't permajam a single ship it'd have exactly no reason for existing.
It's also basically useless solo. You get a whopping one or two high slots for token anti-drone firepower so it sounds like the complaint is basically about a) any useful e-war ingame as a concept (is losing to any weapon or module fun?) and b) the other guy bringing friends 
EVE RELATED CONTENT |
Methem
interimo
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Posted - 2008.03.23 00:27:00 -
[23]
The falcon is designed to remove 2-3 dps ships from a fight. Obviously if you have 1 ship vs a falcon, IT WILL BE JAMMED.
Multiple ships, using eccm,are a complete pain in the ass to jam. I fly a falcon with specialized skills using rigs and racials, so I know what I'm talking about.
The only threads about this issue are the ones that dont take into account the facts about how specialized the falcon really is, and the fact that a single ship, WITH ECCM, SHOULD be jammed.
Falcon brings no tackle, no dps, and is paper thin.
just my 2 cents
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Mortifix
M0NEY SH0T
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Posted - 2008.03.23 01:30:00 -
[24]
Why when anyone has a hard time vs. a ship they whine and scream for a nerf. If u want an easy game to play then STOP playing eve. Every ship has a strong point and a weak point. If you cant seem to find a way to overcome a falcon , then u just need to stop playing really. The idea of this game is to adapt and overcome. Maybe u should just stick to ratting.
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Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.03.23 01:32:00 -
[25]
It's not ECM's fault all the other EW options are inferior.
ECM is fine, the others need boosting, and people need to stop whining about EW. We know, it's annoying when you can't shoot, that's the idea.
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Multras
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.23 01:33:00 -
[26]
Stop saying the falcon can perma jam everything because thats utter BS, It can perma jam t1 frigs, some t2 frigs, t1 destroyers, and most dictors.
Thanks to EVE Art Store for the sig. |
Crazy Tasty
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.03.23 01:33:00 -
[27]
Originally by: joshmorris
Originally by: Megan Maynard
And gallente recon pilots need to shut up. A warp scram range bonus is more then enough power in a ship, getting a damp boost would make it the best gank ship in the freaking game. Just sit off 60 km from someone, while your drones and launchers do all the work? No.
Recon ships, except the pilgrim, are completely in line and whooping ass like their price suggests they should do.
You fail. A falcon or rook can already perma jam some1 from 60km + protect ALL his gang friends and pump out roughy the same constant dps. (drones can be destroyed very easilly)
Gallente recons need to be buffed so that they force targets to get closer (thats the whole point). Not damp them to 24k so they can still do everything as if they wernt even being damped.
As for the warp scram bonus ANY ceptor with the disrupt bonus then put a faction disruptor on that does the job just as good (even better) and has more survivability.
Oh and, if you jump on top of an arazu forget being effected by anything you will defiantly kill him whereas a falcon can jam then cloak / warp off.
Did you just use Falcon and DPS in the same sentence? Rook, maybe, can do some DPS, but if you're even in range to shoot with either you've done something wrong.
As a specced ECM pilot I love my Falcon, but there are a few good counters to them. ECCM works well, especially when put on another recon (Curse anyone?) or a BS, however nothing can or should save you from multiple racial ECM mods against a single ship. A few small fast ships, if the falcon is already having to jam the primaries, 3 or 4 small ships with either A) kill him B) force him to warp C) force him to jam the small ships instead of the big ships. Gallente recons also work well against a Rook/Falcon at range as 1 damp will probably make him lose target at 150k. There is always the option of you're own ECM to.
Also, not on topic, but any argument against the Gal recons is bull. I fly with Gal specced pilots all the time and those recons still pwn.
------
Originally by: Garmon
people using warp core stabilizers are generally more skilled than people not using warp corer stabilizers
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Dexton
Gr0und Zer0
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Posted - 2008.03.23 01:39:00 -
[28]
Azeroth has no jammers, I suggest you move there. New eden is for people that use their head to solf problems.
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Xequecal
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.23 02:06:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Xequecal on 23/03/2008 02:06:45
How do you "use your head" to solve a jammer problem? I don't think Falcons are overpowered, but ECM is the opposite of skill. You push the button and roll the dice. If your target has ECCM, you're still rolling the dice. The ship has no tank, no DPS, and they're extremely slow and heavy. The whole thing is 100% random chance, if you jam them they can't do ****, doesn't matter how "skilled" they are. If you fail to jam them you're dead.
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Mortifix
M0NEY SH0T
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Posted - 2008.03.23 02:16:00 -
[30]
ok i figured out how to make it fair for everyone,
1. Remove Caldari from eve because the are too good at ECM and PVE
2. Remove Gallente from eve because the are too good at PVP
3. Remove Minmatar because they are too fast
4. Now everyone can be amarr and we can change the name to Amarr Online 
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