EVE Search - For gods sake can we sort out Falcons and ECM

All Channels

Ships and Modules

For gods sake can we sort out Falcons and ECM

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 .. 11 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Eaterof Children Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.23 02:51:00 - [31] WTF kind of argument is "it can permajam any ship"? Even if was true (which it is not), OF COURSE it should permajam any ship. Which it cannot, it is chance based, anything bigger than a cruiser and it's actually roll of the dice, although its almost certain that a single target will be jammed. Just think for a sec. You pay for a T2 cruiser hull (i.e. = battleship cost if you factor insurance and the like). It needs to remove a target from the battle in order to just HALF break even (because it doesn't damage people at BS level to do so). Permanently. In order to actually justify its use, it would need to actually permajam ANOTHER target, so that it justifies its existance as a ship that causes practically no damage (compared to the battleship hull it costs) and no defense. Which is more or less its current state, minus some. It can, pretty much, remove two to three targets, NOT reliably, or one to two targets, rather reliably. As it should be. On the other hand, I understand the frustration of being jammed and being able to do nothing about it. Well, damn, it also hurts to lose a ship, or a pod, or something. But, hell, it's part of the game and it's balanced.
Lyria Skydancer Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.23 03:26:00 - [32] It is boring and yeah everyone and their mom has a falcon alt. Its getting annoying and isnt really adding anything to the game except a FOTM. trains a falcon alt herself to keep up with everyone -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Methem interimo	Posted - 2008.03.23 03:32:00 - [33] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer It is boring and yeah everyone and their mom has a falcon alt. Its getting annoying and isnt really adding anything to the game except a FOTM. trains a falcon alt herself to keep up with everyone you add nothing to this thread
Chr0nosX Ore Mongers	Posted - 2008.03.23 03:46:00 - [34] Edited by: Chr0nosX on 23/03/2008 03:46:40 I gotta admit Falcon is overpowered. It can warp in at 100km jam a few hacs or a BS or two maybe missing a few jam cycles but pretty much perma jammed. Even if you get a point on the damn thing it just jams you and warps off. The arazu on the other hand is a joke, for all you saying its fine - why do you never see it in gangs anymore?
Mortifix M0NEY SH0T	Posted - 2008.03.23 04:51:00 - [35] Originally by: Chr0nosX Edited by: Chr0nosX on 23/03/2008 03:46:40 I gotta admit Falcon is overpowered. It can warp in at 100km jam a few hacs or a BS or two maybe missing a few jam cycles but pretty much perma jammed. Even if you get a point on the damn thing it just jams you and warps off. The arazu on the other hand is a joke, for all you saying its fine - why do you never see it in gangs anymore? Wow, you just said the same thing that the rest of these whiners have been saying. Congrats. Like EaterofChildren already stated, NO the falcon cannot perma jamm muiltple BS and HACS. I am near maxed out in my Falcon and I have never been able to perma jam 3 or so targets (other than T1 frigs or T1 cruiser maybe). YES I have had 4 or so targets all jammed at once, but there is no way I could keep them perma jammed. If there is anyone out there that think they can, PLEASE enlighten me, so i also can become an ECM god like you.
Karad Forsky State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.23 05:15:00 - [36] Falcon as it is now is very powerful. Probably one of the most powerful tide-turners in small/med-size combat. Overpowered? Well I don't know if CCP intended for them to be this powerful, so can't judge. I agree that the ship is thoroughly overused at the moment, if that counts as some argument for its excessive strength. No, the Falcon can not perma-jam everything, and yes it is fragile close-up - but a knowledgeable pilot will very rarely find himself in a situation he can't escape from in a Falcon. The problem comes in when multiple Falcons are used, especially in combination with nano-gangs - these gangs really are a pain, and invite nothing but hugely superior numbers to counter. That said, it takes organization to use ECM efficiently in gang with multiple Falcons, but it is amazingly powerful when used correctly - disproportionately to the effort involved in my opinion.
Mo Steel Sanguis vix Dignatio	Posted - 2008.03.23 05:28:00 - [37] Originally by: Scout101 Everyones got a falcon - there rediculously overpowered, being perma jammed isnt fun at all. dual eccm and still its perma jam or if not another falcon comes in and jams. its completly f'ed up atm. Clearly, two players jamming one target and succeeding is f'ed up. ----- Want a sig made? Eve-Mail me, signatures made for 5 million isk each.
Corwain Aliastra	Posted - 2008.03.23 05:43:00 - [38] Don't nerf Falcon, boost the other recons. Every recon should be able to lock down multiple BS. --
DuKai FSF Holdings Inc	Posted - 2008.03.23 06:06:00 - [39] Nerf shields. Nerf armor. Nerf structure. They stop my guns from instapopping ships...
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.03.23 08:36:00 - [40] Originally by: Corwain Don't nerf Falcon, boost the other recons. Every recon should be able to lock down multiple BS. falcon locking down a BS is fine, it cannot ever kill it. A curse locking down a battleship is more dangerous, as a curse can ably kill almost any BS. Besides, variety is nice, not all recons should do the same two bit tactic. that said, every recon should be useful, and right now pilgrim, arazu, lachesis are not usefull pretty much at all. Originally by: Meridius Dex I could actually fit a Thorax WITH LASERS and get better DPS, better speed, better tank and - wait for it - better cap stability
pandymen The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.23 09:10:00 - [41] Well, the pilgrim is still useful, it is just not as powerful and hardy as the curse. The gal recons, on the other hand, don't have damps to fall back on. Granted, I still do not think they are quite as underpowered as people claim. When you have so many threads whining about how overpowered falcons are, you gotta think why aren't ppl using more arazu's to lock down those falcons? A gal recon is great at stopping a sniper in his tracks. Let the falcon try to jam at 200km, but with only 1 sensor booster, he won't have the range after you sick just one damp on him. Now, multiply that by several and you have just perma damped 3 falcons. That said tho, not sure why falcons are so overpowered now than before. Before the last boost, the rook was just as good as the falcon at jamming...and no one complained about it being able to permajam "omfg 40 ships at once." The falcon is now just a way for caldari pilots to do what the rook did while not dying at the onset of every engagement.
Lyria Skydancer Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.23 09:12:00 - [42] Originally by: Methem you add nothing to this thread Because its the truth? -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Shevar A.W.M Soul of Fountain	Posted - 2008.03.23 09:19:00 - [43] No matter how you look at it ever since the Pilgrim and Arazu nerf the falcon and rapier have been overpowered compared to them. I would vote boosting the pilgrim and arazu instead of nerfing the falcon and rapier though --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
L70Rogue State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.23 09:27:00 - [44] Originally by: Crazy Tasty Originally by: joshmorris Originally by: Megan Maynard And gallente recon pilots need to shut up. A warp scram range bonus is more then enough power in a ship, getting a damp boost would make it the best gank ship in the freaking game. Just sit off 60 km from someone, while your drones and launchers do all the work? No. Recon ships, except the pilgrim, are completely in line and whooping ass like their price suggests they should do. You fail. A falcon or rook can already perma jam some1 from 60km + protect ALL his gang friends and pump out roughy the same constant dps. (drones can be destroyed very easilly) Gallente recons need to be buffed so that they force targets to get closer (thats the whole point). Not damp them to 24k so they can still do everything as if they wernt even being damped. As for the warp scram bonus ANY ceptor with the disrupt bonus then put a faction disruptor on that does the job just as good (even better) and has more survivability. Oh and, if you jump on top of an arazu forget being effected by anything you will defiantly kill him whereas a falcon can jam then cloak / warp off. Did you just use Falcon and DPS in the same sentence? Rook, maybe, can do some DPS, but if you're even in range to shoot with either you've done something wrong. As a specced ECM pilot I love my Falcon, but there are a few good counters to them. ECCM works well, especially when put on another recon (Curse anyone?) or a BS, however nothing can or should save you from multiple racial ECM mods against a single ship. A few small fast ships, if the falcon is already having to jam the primaries, 3 or 4 small ships with either A) kill him B) force him to warp C) force him to jam the small ships instead of the big ships. Gallente recons also work well against a Rook/Falcon at range as 1 damp will probably make him lose target at 150k. There is always the option of you're own ECM to. Also, not on topic, but any argument against the Gal recons is bull. I fly with Gal specced pilots all the time and those recons still pwn. This^ Gallente recons can still solopwn ships when all the falcon can do is jam. Gallente whine too much.
Bodhisattvas Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:02:00 - [45] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer It is boring and yeah everyone and their mom has a falcon alt. Its getting annoying and isnt really adding anything to the game except a FOTM. trains a falcon alt herself to keep up with everyone This is quite true for my alt and others i know in game, pirates have them sitting off gate in camps due to their range capabilites. When i trained one recently I was amazed at how effective it was within a few days of training, I felt dirty getting into a caldari ship and the stench is still real bad. Thankfully it fell to bits tho and I'm quite sure not to invest in another altho my alt did train for a basilisk, another ship which leaves me wanting when I know how good the 3 other logistics are. Can't the 3 other races not just extinguish caldari ? it would solve the ecm problem and people wouldn't have to lower their standards in making the mistake of training caldari. Yours, A concerned eve'ster. ps ccp can we have a tongue in cheek smiley please :P
Reem Fairchild Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:23:00 - [46] Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 23/03/2008 10:23:59 Originally by: L70Rogue Originally by: Crazy Tasty As a specced ECM pilot I love my Falcon, but there are a few good counters to them. ECCM works well, especially when put on another recon (Curse anyone?) or a BS, however nothing can or should save you from multiple racial ECM mods against a single ship. A few small fast ships, if the falcon is already having to jam the primaries, 3 or 4 small ships with either A) kill him B) force him to warp C) force him to jam the small ships instead of the big ships. Gallente recons also work well against a Rook/Falcon at range as 1 damp will probably make him lose target at 150k. There is always the option of you're own ECM to. Also, not on topic, but any argument against the Gal recons is bull. I fly with Gal specced pilots all the time and those recons still pwn. This^ Gallente recons can still solopwn ships when all the falcon can do is jam. Gallente whine too much. WTB: Remote Sensor Dampeners that do anything at all at 150 km range.
Shaemell Buttleson The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.23 11:11:00 - [47] Instead of nerfing ECM the ships that use other types of EW like Arazus/Damps, Pilgrims/T disruptors etc etc should be able to use their type of EW without using the scripts to make it as effective on them as it was before the change. Of course all other shiptypes not designed for this should have to use scripts. The script idea was ok in theory but it hammered too many things.
Grimpak Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.23 11:41:00 - [48] Edited by: Grimpak on 23/03/2008 11:42:32 Originally by: L70Rogue Originally by: Crazy Tasty Originally by: joshmorris Originally by: Megan Maynard And gallente recon pilots need to shut up. A warp scram range bonus is more then enough power in a ship, getting a damp boost would make it the best gank ship in the freaking game. Just sit off 60 km from someone, while your drones and launchers do all the work? No. Recon ships, except the pilgrim, are completely in line and whooping ass like their price suggests they should do. You fail. A falcon or rook can already perma jam some1 from 60km + protect ALL his gang friends and pump out roughy the same constant dps. (drones can be destroyed very easilly) Gallente recons need to be buffed so that they force targets to get closer (thats the whole point). Not damp them to 24k so they can still do everything as if they wernt even being damped. As for the warp scram bonus ANY ceptor with the disrupt bonus then put a faction disruptor on that does the job just as good (even better) and has more survivability. Oh and, if you jump on top of an arazu forget being effected by anything you will defiantly kill him whereas a falcon can jam then cloak / warp off. Did you just use Falcon and DPS in the same sentence? Rook, maybe, can do some DPS, but if you're even in range to shoot with either you've done something wrong. As a specced ECM pilot I love my Falcon, but there are a few good counters to them. ECCM works well, especially when put on another recon (Curse anyone?) or a BS, however nothing can or should save you from multiple racial ECM mods against a single ship. A few small fast ships, if the falcon is already having to jam the primaries, 3 or 4 small ships with either A) kill him B) force him to warp C) force him to jam the small ships instead of the big ships. Gallente recons also work well against a Rook/Falcon at range as 1 damp will probably make him lose target at 150k. There is always the option of you're own ECM to. Also, not on topic, but any argument against the Gal recons is bull. I fly with Gal specced pilots all the time and those recons still pwn. This^ Gallente recons can still solopwn ships when all the falcon can do is jam. Gallente whine too much. sure, WTB 200km range damps. and do tell where I can get such "solopwning" gallente recon that can do more damage than a curse/pilgrim, be as quick as the huginn/rapier and able to remove 2-3 ships out of the battle like the rook/falcon. the arazu can "solopwn" industrials and frigates, and maybe the odd badly fit/piloted cruiser, at most. if you say otherwise, please do tell how, when, what fittings and in wich circumstances did such ship do such miraculous thing. oh and before you can come up with the lach, do tell aswell how a ship like that can do such thing. --- Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards
Lyria Skydancer Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.23 11:45:00 - [49] Originally by: Grimpak sure, WTB 200km range damps. and do tell where I can get such "solopwning" gallente recon that can do more damage than a curse/pilgrim, be as quick as the huginn/rapier and able to remove 2-3 ships out of the battle like the rook/falcon. Actually both caldari and gallente recons outdamage curse and pilgrim. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Grimpak Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.23 12:01:00 - [50] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Grimpak sure, WTB 200km range damps. and do tell where I can get such "solopwning" gallente recon that can do more damage than a curse/pilgrim, be as quick as the huginn/rapier and able to remove 2-3 ships out of the battle like the rook/falcon. Actually both caldari and gallente recons outdamage curse and pilgrim. arazu with 3 rails + faction AM + T2 hammers = 226 dps falcon with 250mm rail + 2 heavy launchers with faction ammo = 80 dps pilgrim with 5 hammers = 224 dps. so yeah, the arazu outdamages the pilgrim by 2 dps, I concur, but the falcon is pretty much down there in DPS terms. lachesis with 3 rails + 2 heavy launchers with faction ammo (faction AM) = 290 dps rook with 5 launchers + CN scourges = 155 dps curse with 5 T2 hammers = 224 dps. again, I concur that the lach does more damage than the curse, but not the rook. but then again ,slapping damage drones in a mostly anti-support ship is a bit meh. ECM drones are better here, wich means that the lach and the arazu only outdamage the curse and the pilgrim due to the extra 119 dps provided by 4 T2 hammers, meaning that the lach and the arazu, sans drones do 171 and 107 dps respectively. --- Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards
trouser boy The Eve Pacification Syndicate	Posted - 2008.03.23 12:02:00 - [51] Euurgghh stop using that god damned phrase "perma-jam". There is no perma-jam ever, even if the sensor strength of the ECM module exceeds that of the ship (frigs only) theres a blanket chance it won't be jammed although more often than not it is (like rolling a 6 on a dice for an automatic save). ECM module strength/Ships Sensor Strength x 100 = Percentage chance of jam Might be some other arcane figures like the phases of the moon and the price of guano in Venezuela that effect it knowing this game but in general thats the rule. Falcons bonus reduced to 15% wouldn't be too much of a crime tbh, but only because the poor Rook suffers. I'd rather they boosted the combat application of the Rook though. :P
NoNah Tenth Legion Holdings Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.03.23 12:21:00 - [52] Honestly... ECM might be a tad over the top, but not nearly as bad as some people in here project it to be. Easy solution would imho be swap damp and ecm ranges around. (This means the damps would max out at optimals at 81km, a falcon would have an optimal of 90km.) Reasoning? Damps would battle long range setups, ECM would battle any and all ships. Tracking disruptors are tougher. Only difference I would like to see here is really a way to combat missiles - the so far only immune weapon system there is. Postcount: 43031
Jarvin Kell Kingdom of Kador Kingdom of Redemption	Posted - 2008.03.23 12:23:00 - [53] The only thing that I think needs looking into is that there is no real reason to fly a rook over a falcon. Both have 3 lows, both have 7 mids. I think the force recons should take a cue from the Arazu v. Lachesis relationship--the Arazu loses a midslot when compared to the Lachesis, in turn losing a bit of e-war capability in favor of survivability and the other attributes that come from having a cloak. And on to the Gallente Recons...Sure they still have uses, but often it's better to just bring a different ship in the first place. As others have said, Gallente Recons should be just as powerful as they were pre-nerf. Gallente RECONS weren't overpowered, damps being used on every ship's spare mid slots were overpowered. Yes the scrambling range bonus is nice, but other ships have good bonuses as well. You may even say that the the target painting bonus on Minnie Recons has been made more useful with the torp changes. I really think the Pilgrim is what needs looking into the most, however. All other pairs of recons share the e-war bonuses between force/combat. The Pilgrim loses the energy vampire range bonus while all other force recons simply lose a damage bonus. I think it would make more sense for the pilgrim to lose the drone damage/hp bonus and keep the range bonus. Overall I think there are some minor tweaks that could be done but nothing too extreme is needed.
Rastigan Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.23 12:39:00 - [54] As if it would kill anyone to fit a single ECCM module to counter this. Most recons have a way of crippling ships Close range weapons ? = you are screwed if a Minmatar recon webs you. Got an average targetting range ? = hope you dont get damped by a Gal recon. Got guns or need cap ? = Blah blah sucky Amarr recons can still do something. Granted a Caldari recon can do it from much further away, but the ship does NOTHING other than this, 1 ECCM on a Battleship can ruin their chances greatly. 1 ECCM'ed sniper ship will make all of those paper tanked ships GTFO. ------------------------- Welcome to Rock,Paper,Scissors online forums, where people complain about scissors beating paper.
Chr0nosX Ore Mongers	Posted - 2008.03.23 13:00:00 - [55] Originally by: Mortifix Wow, you just said the same thing that the rest of these whiners have been saying. Congrats. Like EaterofChildren already stated, NO the falcon cannot perma jamm muiltple BS and HACS. I am near maxed out in my Falcon and I have never been able to perma jam 3 or so targets (other than T1 frigs or T1 cruiser maybe). YES I have had 4 or so targets all jammed at once, but there is no way I could keep them perma jammed. If there is anyone out there that think they can, PLEASE enlighten me, so i also can become an ECM god like you. I said the Falcon can jam (while missing a few jam cycles) a few hacs OR one or two BS. Maybe try fitting racial jammers instead of multispecs.
NoNah Tenth Legion Holdings Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.03.23 13:29:00 - [56] Originally by: Rastigan As if it would kill anyone to fit a single ECCM module to counter this. Most recons have a way of crippling ships Close range weapons ? = you are screwed if a Minmatar recon webs you. Got an average targetting range ? = hope you dont get damped by a Gal recon. Got guns or need cap ? = Blah blah sucky Amarr recons can still do something. Granted a Caldari recon can do it from much further away, but the ship does NOTHING other than this, 1 ECCM on a Battleship can ruin their chances greatly. 1 ECCM'ed sniper ship will make all of those paper tanked ships GTFO. ------------------------- Welcome to Rock,Paper,Scissors online forums, where people complain about scissors beating paper. Postcount: 588906
Zephyr Rengate Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2008.03.23 13:45:00 - [57] I thought caldari were meant to have the best EW, so why should it be nerfed? It just seems OP since every gang has a few jammers. But without them smaller gangs would not be able to take on larger blobs. Falcons pilots dont usualy jam random targets, they go for KEY TARGETS : logistics, or other recons. If you fit into that catergory fit ECCM. Dont whine about something before trying to counter it. Anyway WTB perma-jam.
Waxau The Fated Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.03.23 14:05:00 - [58] End of the day, this thread contains all the players who dont understand how ecm works, and just whine when they find themselves jammed for consecutive turns. Need i point folks to the immature postings and such. For example, as Lyrias retort Quote: Because its the truth Well done Lyria. And to those whining, and are willing to listen. ECM takes alot of practice to get right. Correct, it is difficult to lock down a falcon. But then again, are Arazu's any different? Or rapiers? The two types of falcon pilots are 1. Those who fly it for the ECM, and have no actual knowledge of the ship. And 2. Those who spec in it, and KNOW how to fly it. Pilot 1's are the type who get killed at gate camps, and whilst ecming and such. They know not of how to survive. The effort they put in, means they SHOULD die. And they do. Pilot 2's know how to survive, have ECM spots, and so on. They put tonnes of effort and isk, let alone SP into making sure they can jam you. And the only thing you have to do is fit ECCM, and you cut his effectiveness by near enough half. All that speccing, and one ship, fitting 1 ECCM, makes life 2x as hard. Please - Dont whine to us about how ECM is cough overpowered. Id far prefer it to be non-luck based, and have the good ol' set stats. Falcon with a jam strength of 14.6? Vaga with a jam strength of 14? That would be permajam thankyou very much. You whiners have EVERYTHING going your way with ECM, minus the fact that its the most popular and powerful EW. And ECM isnt even to blame for that! Boost damps etc, fine. But stop whining just cos you got the short straw (like we did 3 years ago, for how many times? 3 or 4? Please...get real..
Lyria Skydancer Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.23 14:21:00 - [59] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 23/03/2008 14:21:54 Originally by: Waxau End of the day, this thread contains all the players who dont understand how ecm works, and just whine when they find themselves jammed for consecutive turns. Need i point folks to the immature postings and such. For example, as Lyrias retort Quote: Because its the truth Well done Lyria. Im just stating my oppinion. Im training a falcon alt myself but it doesnt friggin mean I have to like where this game is going. You can rant all you want about how hard ECM'ing is in a falcon, I dont care. I still find it boring. ...or is this about something else? -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
kessah Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.03.23 14:33:00 - [60] Wax eccm isnt that effective mate. I run a 2nd account falcon pilot with pure skills, if i want summin jammed it does get jammed, along with many others. Falcons are pretty nuts atm - Boosted with no real justification. Ive been jammed over 4 cycles straigtht and then only a 20sec respite only to be jammed again on dual overloaded ECCM's. When u need to donate 2 mid slots to overcome being jammed 90% of the time, something's broke. Thing is when u have a gang with 2-4 falcons the only way to counter that kinda of jamming power is to bring 5 falcons of your own and hope you lock them quicker then they do. I mean its just my experience with these ships. We all hate being jammed since your so helpless. Also people know when they have a falcon in gang they think "dont worry we have a falcon" and just walk fights, i know because i believe this when ive got one in gang. There too strong is my final thought.

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 .. 11 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.