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Xyn Rhais
Tessaract
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Posted - 2008.03.24 09:19:00 -
[91]
I don't see a problem. The doomsday device is designed as an anti-blob weapon.
If you just bring lots and lots of ships, you might just run into a few Doosmdays and lose everything. So it forces you to think about splitting your fleet, commit capitals to a fight, etc...
It's not like you can spam the doomsdays. If you have the problem you describe, you bring some suicide carriers/battleships in a first wave, if they get poped you just jump some more in while the DDs are on cooldown.
You can kill 20 titans if you commit an equal ammount of isk in small ships. What is it, about 200 carriers and a few thousand battleships  ?
People complaining about titans really complain because having a really big blob in the system dosen't automatically win the fights as they're used to.
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Dimagus
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.03.24 09:28:00 -
[92]
You need only to create a device capable of utilizing the power of whine, simply collecting it all in one place would have the power to destroy civilizations. Although quite unwieldy in it's natural state, harnessing it into a concentrated form, let's say... a bat, could negate it's advantages entirely. I dub this super attack: The Nerfbat.
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Johnster
Mining Bytes Inc.
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.24 10:51:00 -
[93]
I think titans should be a (dockable) mobile outpost. Their defence should be the alliance members docked in them, not a DD, etc.. They still should be able to siege like a dread or release fighters like a mothership though.
You and your alliance will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
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CHAOS100
Black Plague.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.24 10:54:00 -
[94]
titans are teh new bs!
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000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
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Posted - 2008.03.24 11:03:00 -
[95]
After reading the op's post but none of the others heres my idea.
Has anyone thought about it in this way? indeed remove the DDD's (i mean they weren't the blob counter ccp thought they would be in the first place) but boost the titans a whole lot, make a titan a serious capkiller but completely suck at anything else.
(i dunno release a buncha supercap gunz that omgwtfpwnbbq caps in a few volleys but do squat against battleships and smaller.
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CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
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VinkNut
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.03.24 11:06:00 -
[96]
Dont see a problem with cyno jammers, we've killed three over the weekend 
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Post
Man Pat And His Black And White Cat
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Posted - 2008.03.24 11:11:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Post on 24/03/2008 11:12:35
A titan fleet like that would be valued in the region of 150 thousand US dollars, calculating with GTC.
Postman Pat
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Ogron
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Posted - 2008.03.24 11:26:00 -
[98]
 Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Has anyone pointed out that there aren't 20 Titans in the whole game, let alone within a single alliance? Well whatever. Yes, multiple DDD's can pretty much ensure massive destruction on the battlefield. The counter is to move your own fleet closer to your opponent, so that if a DDD is detonated it will destroy your opponent's ships as well.
Fire Hawk (Destructive Influence) BoB: Erebus
nirana (Destructive Influence) BoB: Avatar
Orange Species (Destructive Influence) BoB: Ragnarok
Anna Valerios (Evolution) BoB: Avatar
Shrike ( Evolution ) BoB: Avatar
Stumpan (Black Eclipse Corp) BoB: Erebus
Zondran ( Finfleet ) BoB: Ragnarok
Jake Noble (BNC) BoB: Avatar
Chowdown (ex-Shinra/ex-Reikuko/Shinra) ex-LV/ex-BoB/SA: Avatar
Tom McCash (Asgard Schiffswerften) D2/Ev0ke: Erebus
Janus Drake (X-Trading Company) MH: Leviathan
Viper Zulu (Omega Enterprises) MH: Erebus
Evil Thug (Rage and Terror) -A-: Erebus
XaHyPuK (Rage and Terror) -A-: Ragnarok
Von Zarovick (The Collective) ûA-: Avatar
Jabin (UA Industry) RA: Erebus
Ottar (UA Industry) RA: Erebus
SokolD (Russian SOBR) RA: Leviathan
Trex Y (RUSH) RA: Avatar
Antonious (Reunion) RA: Erebus
Oort (UA Industry) RA: Leviathan (currently titanless)
Katalizator (The xDEATHx Squadron) XIX: Ragnarok
Corbec (Contraband Inc.) MC: Erebus
Thulsa Doom ( Body Count Inc ) MC: Ragnarok
Deki (4S Corporation) MM: Ragnarok
Tzadkiel ( 4S Corporation ) MM: Avatar
Solene Solux (hirr) MM: Ragnarok
Teufelhunden (Shiva) MM: Avatar
Zedone (Shiva) MM: Erebus
Greeser (Mothers of EVE) MM: Ragnarok
Jin Roh (Wreckless Abandon) UNS: Avatar
Deadtear (Goonfleet) GS: Erebus
Spangie (Section31) N/A: Leviathan
That's 33 KNOWN Titans in game. There are a good few more, and that list is also a few months out of date.
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[Reacz] Morsus Mihi - Sit on their thrones sucking the sweet teet of plex running so I've heard. |
watermeron
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Posted - 2008.03.24 11:38:00 -
[99]
Anyone who thinks titans are expensive for an alliance to build has never directly dealt with 0.0 alliance level economics. Any competent spaceholding alliance so inclined could produce a titan per month with just ~10-15 people working on the "making ISK" part. There is no balance in the cost of Titans and people need to stop bringing that argument up as if it was relevant.
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Angelonico
Series of Tubes
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Posted - 2008.03.24 12:09:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
What they need to do is a add a small thermal exhaust port to Titan designs...
Ok that one made me lol 
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Liilli Lee
Suicidal Creatures in Uniform Madness
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Posted - 2008.03.24 15:58:00 -
[101]
Fleets are built from top to bottom; all relying on the next level.
What the Titan (or Titans) need is just to eliminate any level in the enemy fleet.
With no support - the BS wont come into play
with no BS or support - the caps wont come into play
The problem is that the titan can eliminate more than one entire level at a time.
Also; even more crazy its the only weapon that can penetrate shields (by obtaining password thru spies, disgruntled players or 10 year olds kids thats been told to be quiet on comms)
Cats are stupid - that is why they were given 9 lives.
Dogs are smart - that is why they lick their "privates". (You would too - if you could)
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.03.24 16:05:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Drizit
Therefore It should not be owned by a player but by the corp itself and any corp should be limited to a single Titan.
Wow, look at all the alt corps that'd spring up.....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Cap II
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.24 16:24:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Cap II on 24/03/2008 16:25:06
Jesus christ this thread :facepalm:
Honestly, how many of you people have even seen a titan, much less multiple in the same place?
After you put 4 titans on one side, in one place it doesn't matter if you have 4 titans or 40. Your support fleet is now dead no questions asked, and a capital fleet without a support fleet is dead in the water.
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.03.24 16:58:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 24/03/2008 17:03:26
Originally by: Ogron
That's 33 KNOWN Titans in game. There are a good few more, and that list is also a few months out of date.
Some of these aren't real. Just sayin'. Drama.
Granted I'll admit an error when I said there weren't 20, but with Titans and Moms you can generally assume that the true number in service with any given alliance is either much lower or much higher than everyone thinks.
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Zeveron
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:34:00 -
[105]
The main problem atm is how major alliances can make isk atm.
(not I am posting with my main).
The moon products give to major alliances much isk with little to no efford, so they can build with no efford many titans.
For a small group off ppl more than 6 months are needed to gather the isk to build a titan using conventional ways.
The main isk maker for major alliances is moon mining, which need a fix or nerf or whatever you wana call it.
No easy isk no easy titans, no titan fleets, no problem.
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duckmonster
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:47:00 -
[106]
Wouldn't it be easier if someone to put 20 titans in one place to just have the system declare them the winner of the game, and reset the whole bloody cluster.
Remember, it isn't possible to defeat 20 titans. The titans , and perhaps motherships, will barely have scratched paintwork from all that fire, and the carriers and anything below will be vaporised (did I mention 20 titans).
Titans are game ruining ships. Nobody enjoys fighting them, and its bloody boring not being able to fight because a titan pressed a single button and ended your enemy for you.
We don't have 20 titans in system battles yet, but we will. Both BOB and the RSF can field maybe 6-7 at a time , and that means theres little point turning up to fights.
What was widely held to be true a year ago is still true. Titans wreck eve. Just refund the ******* things.
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HellSpeed
Estrale Frontiers
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Posted - 2008.03.24 19:13:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Ralara
Soooooo how to fix?
It's not "broken".
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Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.03.24 19:17:00 -
[108]
Originally by: WilliamH Bonney
I think people need to quit thinking of "20-25 Titans in one place" and think more along the lines of 5 groups of 4 or 5 Titans spread out across a competitor Alliance's space. Talk about an "I-win" button. Certain Alliance's will be able to take over large amounts of space in the time span of a couple weeks...
Why would an alliance who have 25+ titans split them up, when stront timers means the real fight is in a single place?
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.03.24 20:13:00 -
[109]
The DDD is the i-win button, not the Titan itself. If you want to go by numbers, you could likewise create an i-win button by having hundreds of Dreads or Moms present on a single battlefield. We've already established how many Titans it takes to kill a capital ship, and a Titan can't tank hundreds of capital turrets all hitting it at once, especially if the Titan is webbed to a dead crawl and the Dreads have siege mods activated. For that reason it's the DDD that needs fixing, not Titans. Either nerf the DDD or boost it (see suicidal overload idea), if it's such a problem.
I still advocate for boosting of the Titan's other abilities, particularly its point defenses.
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.03.24 20:14:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Kerfira on 24/03/2008 20:15:21
Basically the same arguments as when the first alliances got multiple battleships, multiple carriers, multiple dreads, multiple mommyships.....
Alliances will live and die as they always have in EVE. Live when they're strong and cohesive, die when they're weak and fracture internally.
Titans in themselves does little to change this as just having one/more titans doesn't really make an alliance 'strong'.
If titans gets too powerful, CCP will balance them as they've done over the time with multiple other features. We're not at that point yet and may not ever get there....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Chelone
Stone Shadow Syndicate
deadspace society
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Posted - 2008.03.24 21:13:00 -
[111]
It's over nine thousand?
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SiJira
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.24 21:16:00 -
[112]
jealous of bob again?
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.24 23:22:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Zeveron
The main problem atm is how major alliances can make isk atm.
(not I am posting with my main).
The moon products give to major alliances much isk with little to no efford, so they can build with no efford many titans.
For a small group off ppl more than 6 months are needed to gather the isk to build a titan using conventional ways.
The main isk maker for major alliances is moon mining, which need a fix or nerf or whatever you wana call it.
No easy isk no easy titans, no titan fleets, no problem.
Odd, BoB spend 6 months moon mining the entire south to fund their Titan fleet, and only now when they lose nearly all of their moon mining network to their enemies does one of their members pop up to complain that the process is overpowered and needs to be nerfed 
Propaganda aside, I agree that the proliferation of Titans is something which, if it isn't bought into line now will be grotesquely out of balance in 6-12 months when every mid-sized 0.0 alliance is able to field at least one of them and all the larger alliances have a dozen or more. How is a new alliance, intent on making the transition from Empire to 0.0, supposed to take a system from an opponent which has cyno jammers set up everywhere and multiple doomsdays on standby around the clock?
The means of making isk in this game (whether by large alliances or by individuals or small groups) is something that needs looking at, but that is a seperate issue. The fact that alliances are spending huge portions of their income on acquiring a plague of titans and motherships is because those ships, rather than being inefficient flashy status symbols and behind-the-scenes logistics tools as was initially intended, are actually devastatingly effective PvP tools (and by "PvP" I mean "press F1 to destroy enemy fleet"), and their effectiveness increases exponentially as their numbers multiply.
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Cap II
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.25 03:31:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
The DDD is the i-win button, not the Titan itself. If you want to go by numbers, you could likewise create an i-win button by having hundreds of Dreads or Moms present on a single battlefield. We've already established how many Titans it takes to kill a capital ship, and a Titan can't tank hundreds of capital turrets all hitting it at once, especially if the Titan is webbed to a dead crawl and the Dreads have siege mods activated. For that reason it's the DDD that needs fixing, not Titans. Either nerf the DDD or boost it (see suicidal overload idea), if it's such a problem.
I still advocate for boosting of the Titan's other abilities, particularly its point defenses.
Why are you advocating changing a ship that you've likely never seen on tranq? I mean really if you don't understand basic mechanics behind the ship what makes you qualified to advocate anything?
(hint: titans can't be webbed)
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Zeveron
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.03.25 10:01:00 -
[115]
Quote:
Odd, BoB spend 6 months moon mining the entire south to fund their Titan fleet, and only now when they lose nearly all of their moon mining network to their enemies does one of their members pop up to complain that the process is overpowered and needs to be nerfed
Yeah bcs no1 else did it either on their name or on an alt alliance.
Anyway 4bils per month by just fueling a pos is just insane.
Yes you have to defend it but if you have 10 POSes of dysp you can earn a titan every month.
BoB still has a lot mining POSes arround, so do RA, goons and many other alliances and corps.
The problem is not who is doing but what an impact has it on the game.
I am not saying moon products needs to be removed.
They just need some balance.
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.03.25 10:25:00 -
[116]
I think CCP has 3 options.
1. Prevent any new titans from being built. Reimburse the BPO holders and let the existing titans slowly die out through attrition.
2. Nerf the titan. Options would include: give them 8 highslots and eith a siegemode or a flat 800-1000% damage bonus on them so they are the firepower of several dreads. And increase the size of their hangar array to hold at least 50 battleships so its more valuable as a support ship.
3. Watch in horror as 100 titans flying all over eve make the game boring and people start leaving because the gameplay sucks with all those titans around. People who disagree with point 3, please explain how many titans you expect there to be in a years time, and what that in your opinion will do with non-capital gameplay.
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.03.25 11:06:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Malachon Draco
I think CCP has 3 options.
1. Prevent any new titans from being built. Reimburse the BPO holders and let the existing titans slowly die out through attrition.
2. Nerf the titan. Options would include: give them 8 highslots and eith a siegemode or a flat 800-1000% damage bonus on them so they are the firepower of several dreads. And increase the size of their hangar array to hold at least 50 battleships so its more valuable as a support ship.
3. Watch in horror as 100 titans flying all over eve make the game boring and people start leaving because the gameplay sucks with all those titans around. People who disagree with point 3, please explain how many titans you expect there to be in a years time, and what that in your opinion will do with non-capital gameplay.
What about:
4. Leave them until they actually become a problem????
Titan production seems to be 1-2 per month, so I'd expect there to be 18-24 more in a years time, minus the ones that are destroyed or whose owners become inactive.
Titans these days are mostly used for logistics and jump bridging, not for doomsday'ing.... Their current effect on normal roaming and small-fleet warfare is negligible apart from the jump bridge....
Your arguments are based on a scare scenario which quite frankly is not supported by how titans are actually used these days in game. How many doomsdays are fired on average per day across EVE?
One?
Less than one????
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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gaga rin
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.25 16:20:00 -
[118]
to counter the titanblob, CCP will introduce the Zeus: a megacap that can fit a new AoE weapon that eats whole solar systems.
to nerf the Zeus, CCP will resurrect the frozen body of a bearded minmatar, who will tell people to autodestruct their ships in exchange for a voucher for a new MMO.
capsuleers using Apple will be expelled from New Eden. |
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.03.25 16:33:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Malachon Draco
I think CCP has 3 options.
1. Prevent any new titans from being built. Reimburse the BPO holders and let the existing titans slowly die out through attrition.
2. Nerf the titan. Options would include: give them 8 highslots and eith a siegemode or a flat 800-1000% damage bonus on them so they are the firepower of several dreads. And increase the size of their hangar array to hold at least 50 battleships so its more valuable as a support ship.
3. Watch in horror as 100 titans flying all over eve make the game boring and people start leaving because the gameplay sucks with all those titans around. People who disagree with point 3, please explain how many titans you expect there to be in a years time, and what that in your opinion will do with non-capital gameplay.
What about:
4. Leave them until they actually become a problem????
Titan production seems to be 1-2 per month, so I'd expect there to be 18-24 more in a years time, minus the ones that are destroyed or whose owners become inactive.
Titans these days are mostly used for logistics and jump bridging, not for doomsday'ing.... Their current effect on normal roaming and small-fleet warfare is negligible apart from the jump bridge....
Your arguments are based on a scare scenario which quite frankly is not supported by how titans are actually used these days in game. How many doomsdays are fired on average per day across EVE?
One?
Less than one????
How many titans did MM build in the past 6 months? They have 6 now. And titans are not the same as other ships. A battleship is vulnerable to an interceptor. A carrier is vulnerable to a number of battleships. Even 10 carriers can be killed by a 100 man BS fleet. etc. etc.
Only with titans (multiple ones especially) do you get to a point where the server will die long before you can amass enough people have a good shot at destroying them under most circumstances. If the server could handle 2000 vs 2000 engagements without lag, titans would be ok, as they would most likely be dead before they could unload their DD on an enemy sniperfleet. But in the current state of the game, allowing a prolific amount of ships that as a counter often require more resources than the server can handle is not a smart situation. Even more so because titans greatly benefit from lag, lag which is practically inevitable if you want to kill a titan because the number of people you need will always cause a lot of lag.
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.03.25 16:57:00 -
[120]
No alliance is at 10 titans?
Make it so that no alliance can have MORE THAN 10. Boom, probelm solved.
They're still not fun though, and CCP in its most recent live dev chat, as indicated that they're thinking ab otu allowing the titan to become a mobile station. That may give enough power to the titan to be able to nerf the DD without much whineage.
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