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How to fix an alliance that has 20 titans

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Ralara D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:23:00 - [1] Edited by: Ralara on 23/03/2008 10:33:23 Edited by: Ralara on 23/03/2008 10:24:14 I'm going to pull numbers out of my bottom for this, so keep that in mind. A DDD does, what, 46,875 (ish) base damage? Let's give the titan DDD level 4, that's ... 46875 x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.1 = 68629.6875. Let's call it 70,000 because it's easier for me. Now, a normal carrier has about 1.5 - 2 million hitpoints (or effective hitpoints, whatever). How many DDDs do we need to go off, before 30 carriers grouped together asplode? counts fingers 25. Ish. Roughly. Now at some point, an alliance is going to get that, (and I'm looking at you MM!) and on that day, I think we can agree that Eve is more or less over. Well, you don't have to agree. You could even disagree. But I think that it would be a bad thing and since this is my thread and im whinging, I'm allowed to think that. So nyr. Soooooo how to fix? Well, short of removing the DDD entirely (I like that idea, but I think many people would shout at me) I have a plan. FOCUSSED SCRIPT. Shove it on a DDD and it can fire off, say, 5 million damage. Like... the DEATH STAR! Yes! And we could even use the Avatar's circular "head" to have a focussing array of 9 green laser beams that converge and through the hole in the middle a larger beam comes out and... Without the focussed script, it just does about 10,000 damage across the grid. You'd need hundreds to take down cap ships (and I just can't see hundreds of titan pilots in a single fleet, ever) but now alliances are getting 2 or 3 of them (or 6) they can still blast away entire fleets and support wings (and the expensive fighters!) but not go totally gargar with them. really, this post was an excuse to talk about the death star and show that picture. EDIT: oh and yes, that would probably 1-shot motherships and titans too. And that's unfair and overpowered. But ya know, sometimes someone fires a focussed super laser using a hypermatter fueled power core and s**t just happens, deal. -- Ralara / Ralarina
Surfin's PlunderBunny GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:24:00 - [2] A properly tanked BS can tank a DDD Originally by: Avaricia look a goon lol
Ralara D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:25:00 - [3] Edited by: Ralara on 23/03/2008 10:25:13 Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny A properly tanked BS can tank a DDD But not 25. I said 25. -- Ralara / Ralarina
Wet Ferret Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:25:00 - [4] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny A properly tanked BS can tank a DDD 20 of them?
Reem Fairchild Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:31:00 - [5] The dooms day device should never have been put into the game in my opinion. You can't balance something like this. It's impossible. Maybe if it had a more limited range, but not in the way it exists today.
Ralara D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:32:00 - [6] Originally by: Reem Fairchild The dooms day device should never have been put into the game in my opinion. You can't balance something like this. It's impossible. Maybe if it had a more limited range, but not in the way it exists today. I think that's the general gist of what I was saying. :-) -- Ralara / Ralarina
Anson Halleck Lost Eden Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:33:00 - [7] Don't you think that alliance capable of building ~1.5 Trillion ISK cap fleet should be able to cause some serious damage?
Brachis The Commissum	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:35:00 - [8] If a corporation can get 25 Titans with skilled enough pilots in them... more power to them, I say. It's my experience that such a collection of ships would quickly diminish. Sure, you can stick 25 titans in one spot and pop DDDs over and over, but the amount of attention that an Alliance would garner from such a concentration of vessels would be enormous. While it would be a massive undertaking to take them all out at once, it's safe to say that you're not going to keep 25 titans together all the time (Though I suppose, in theory, you could). If an Alliance has 25 Titans and starts abusing them, one of two things is going to happen: 1) Other alliances will band together and form a fleet capable of eliminating 25 Titans. You can't reuse DDDs indefinitely, and the size of a support fleet needed to protect 25 Titans would be completely insane. 2) If it's a serious problem, CCP will ner- I mean fix it. But it's not a problem, and not a problem that couldn't be solved internally by the EVE community. At least I don't think so, anyway. "I do this with but one small ship and I am called a terrorist... you do it with an entire fleet and are called an Emperor."
Reem Fairchild Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:39:00 - [9] Originally by: Anson Halleck Don't you think that alliance capable of building ~1.5 Trillion ISK cap fleet should be able to cause some serious damage? Causing serious damage, yes. Being virtually invincible and making any ship smaller than a super capital ship obsolete, no.
Elliot Reid Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:39:00 - [10] Originally by: Brachis If an Alliance has 25 Titans and starts abusing them, one of two things is going to happen: 1) Other alliances will band together and form a fleet capable of eliminating 25 Titans. You can't reuse DDDs indefinitely, and the size of a support fleet needed to protect 25 Titans would be completely insane. Yes, I can see how that would work nicely. _______________________________________
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:39:00 - [11] Edited by: cal nereus on 23/03/2008 10:40:25 I get what you're saying. 25 titans is certainly possible, and whichever alliance gets that many will certainly have an empire almost as permanently entrenched in 0.0 as the high-sec NPC empires are. Just imagining a DDD every couple minutes, and the size of the fleets needed to support and/or fight them, makes my internal server want to crash. --- Join BH-DL Skills
DragonRanger NQX Innovations	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:40:00 - [12] Edited by: DragonRanger on 23/03/2008 10:40:48 One flaw with your theory of 20 titans all DDDing: The 20 DDD's would damage all other 19 titans......leaving them VERY easy pickings for a second wave cap fleet.
Kagura Nikon Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:40:00 - [13] Originally by: Anson Halleck Don't you think that alliance capable of building ~1.5 Trillion ISK cap fleet should be able to cause some serious damage? no, No ammount of work, time or anythign shudl ever deal damage to the FUN of the game. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Alyth Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:41:00 - [14] Originally by: Ralara But ya know, sometimes someone fires a focussed super laser using a hypermatter fueled power core and s**t just happens, deal. This makes the thread and wins the argument for me ------------------------------------------- Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Boomershoot Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:47:00 - [15] Edited by: Boomershoot on 23/03/2008 10:46:59 if i had a corp with 25 titans, i'd be on guard on continous assault from EVERY DAMN TOON ON EVE. you know, it's not good when you have no place to hide 25 titans. when they pop, you be crying blood. __________________________________________________ Not A Signature. Will be Replaced by A Signature Soon(tm)
Reem Fairchild Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:47:00 - [16] Originally by: DragonRanger Edited by: DragonRanger on 23/03/2008 10:40:48 One flaw with your theory of 20 titans all DDDing: The 20 DDD's would damage all other 19 titans......leaving them VERY easy pickings for a second wave cap fleet. No, because they just warp out to safe spots and cloak until they can jump out or use the DDD again. Also, it's possible to space them out on the grid so they don't all damage each other with their blasts.
Ralara D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:48:00 - [17] Originally by: cal nereus Edited by: cal nereus on 23/03/2008 10:40:25 I get what you're saying. 25 titans is certainly possible, and whichever alliance gets that many will certainly have an empire almost as permanently entrenched in 0.0 as the high-sec NPC empires are. Just imagining a DDD every couple minutes, and the size of the fleets needed to support and/or fight them, makes my internal server want to crash. Mmm I dont want to come across like this: It was just some random musings. As I said, mostly an excuse to post a picture of the death star. -- Ralara / Ralarina
DragonRanger NQX Innovations	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:54:00 - [18] Edited by: DragonRanger on 23/03/2008 10:54:22 Originally by: "Reem Fairchild" No, because they just warp out to safe spots and cloak until they can jump out or use the DDD again. Also, it's possible to space them out on the grid so they don't all damage each other with their blasts. my bad, I thought they couldn't move for a certain period of time after use, not just prevent them jumping out.
Anson Halleck Lost Eden Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:54:00 - [19] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Anson Halleck Don't you think that alliance capable of building ~1.5 Trillion ISK cap fleet should be able to cause some serious damage? no, No ammount of work, time or anythign shudl ever deal damage to the FUN of the game. I disagree. If you can build 25 titans, you deserve to pwn anyone who is not able to get equal force OR develop strategy to beat this force. Eve is supposed to be hard.
Ralara D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:58:00 - [20] Originally by: Anson Halleck Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Anson Halleck Don't you think that alliance capable of building ~1.5 Trillion ISK cap fleet should be able to cause some serious damage? no, No ammount of work, time or anythign shudl ever deal damage to the FUN of the game. I disagree. If you can build 25 titans, you deserve to pwn anyone who is not able to get equal force OR develop strategy to beat this force. Eve is supposed to be hard. Hard, yes, but not ********ly so. It's designed for intelligent people not Illuminati with 180+ IQ points who spend 23/7 at the computer controlling 5 accounts -- Ralara / Ralarina
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.03.23 11:03:00 - [21] Originally by: Ralara Originally by: Anson Halleck Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Anson Halleck Don't you think that alliance capable of building ~1.5 Trillion ISK cap fleet should be able to cause some serious damage? no, No ammount of work, time or anythign shudl ever deal damage to the FUN of the game. I disagree. If you can build 25 titans, you deserve to pwn anyone who is not able to get equal force OR develop strategy to beat this force. Eve is supposed to be hard. Hard, yes, but not ******ly so. It's designed for intelligent people not Illuminati with 180+ IQ points who spend 23/7 at the computer controlling 5 accounts Dunno about the 180+ iq but I know a titan pilot who does the 5-6 account thing... bugger ------------ Originally by:** CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
Reem Fairchild Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.23 11:05:00 - [22] Originally by: Anson Halleck Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Anson Halleck Don't you think that alliance capable of building ~1.5 Trillion ISK cap fleet should be able to cause some serious damage? no, No ammount of work, time or anythign shudl ever deal damage to the FUN of the game. I disagree. If you can build 25 titans, you deserve to pwn anyone who is not able to get equal force OR develop strategy to beat this force. Eve is supposed to be hard. 1. Even a much stronger force (including more Titans), never mind an equal one, you wouldn't be able to defeat an alliance with that many Titans. That's even without taking cyno jammers into account. With cyno jammers and jump bridges, it's completely unthinkable. 2. It won't be long before the cost of building 30 something Titans is trivial to any half-way decently sized alliance in 0.0. What then?
Donna Divine Gilded Goose Brokerage	Posted - 2008.03.23 11:08:00 - [23] Edited by: Donna Divine on 23/03/2008 11:10:35 Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: DragonRanger Edited by: DragonRanger on 23/03/2008 10:40:48 One flaw with your theory of 20 titans all DDDing: The 20 DDD's would damage all other 19 titans......leaving them VERY easy pickings for a second wave cap fleet. No, because they just warp out to safe spots and cloak until they can jump out or use the DDD again. Also, it's possible to space them out on the grid so they don't all damage each other with heir blasts. So how do they all damage that enemy cap fleet then ? oh wait... The only change required to stop stacked DD's from killing cap fleets is changing the absolute damage to a signature-based one. If titnas hit other titans harder then they do dreads, 25 titans cannot effectily kill an enemy dread fleet without dying in the process. titan: 50b dread: 1b Do your math. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gilded Goose Brokerages Trading to order.
Reem Fairchild Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.23 11:10:00 - [24] Originally by: Donna Divine Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: DragonRanger Edited by: DragonRanger on 23/03/2008 10:40:48 One flaw with your theory of 20 titans all DDDing: The 20 DDD's would damage all other 19 titans......leaving them VERY easy pickings for a second wave cap fleet. No, because they just warp out to safe spots and cloak until they can jump out or use the DDD again. Also, it's possible to space them out on the grid so they don't all damage each other with heir blasts. So how do they all damage that enemy cap fleet then ? oh wait... They're spaced out on the grid around it near their max range?
Ralara D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.23 11:12:00 - [25] Edited by: Ralara on 23/03/2008 11:12:45 Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Donna Divine Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: DragonRanger Edited by: DragonRanger on 23/03/2008 10:40:48 One flaw with your theory of 20 titans all DDDing: The 20 DDD's would damage all other 19 titans......leaving them VERY easy pickings for a second wave cap fleet. No, because they just warp out to safe spots and cloak until they can jump out or use the DDD again. Also, it's possible to space them out on the grid so they don't all damage each other with heir blasts. So how do they all damage that enemy cap fleet then ? oh wait... They're spaced out on the grid around it near their max range? That would be a logistical nightmare. Look, the answer is simple. A focussed script to allow it to blow up any single ship (or pos structure) in game and a massively depowered AoE weapon. Also each titan pilot should purchase this (USB button): http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/accessories/9116 And map it to a hot key for, say, F1. Then the result is the image in the OP. That solves the titan problem. -- Ralara / Ralarina
Donna Divine Gilded Goose Brokerage	Posted - 2008.03.23 11:13:00 - [26] Edited by: Donna Divine on 23/03/2008 11:14:48 Then how does any of those titans defend itself against an enemy support fleet ? If all other dd's are out of range, any seocnd capital wave is more or less guaranteed a titan kill. Good luck keeping that up. edit: i don't like the focused weapon alternative btw. It sucks effectivity-wise to use a titan worth 50b to blow up a single target worth 1b in fleet fight conditions. You'd need a 50 times larger chance of survinving then your enemy, which you won't have. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gilded Goose Brokerages Trading to order.
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.03.23 11:13:00 - [27] Has anyone pointed out that there aren't 20 Titans in the whole game, let alone within a single alliance? Well whatever. Yes, multiple DDD's can pretty much ensure massive destruction on the battlefield. The counter is to move your own fleet closer to your opponent, so that if a DDD is detonated it will destroy your opponent's ships as well.
Reem Fairchild Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.23 11:15:00 - [28] Originally by: Ralara That would be a logistical nightmare. Yes, but definitely doable with good cov ops pilots and some organization. Of course, it's if you absolutely had to keep them out of each other's blast range, which you really don't.
Ralara D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.23 11:16:00 - [29] Edited by: Ralara on 23/03/2008 11:16:15 Originally by: Dirk Magnum Has anyone pointed out that there aren't 20 Titans in the whole game, Oh I can't count them all but BoB and MM between them have about 10. 1 for Smash, 1 for Roadkill, 1 for Tri, 1 (2?) for RA? 1 for GS? Stuff. Anyway, I said: Quote: Now at some point, an alliance is going to get that, In the last 18 months they've gone from 1 titan to... what, 15-20 in game at the moment, more being built. If it keeps up at that rate, in 18 months we'll have... more finger work like, eleventy billion (holds up fingers), and I don't think that's a good idea. -- Ralara / Ralarina
Elliot Reid Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.03.23 11:16:00 - [30] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Has anyone pointed out that there aren't 20 Titans in the whole game, let alone within a single alliance? Well whatever. Yes, multiple DDD's can pretty much ensure massive destruction on the battlefield. The counter is to move your own fleet closer to your opponent, so that if a DDD is detonated it will destroy your opponent's ships as well. Apparently at least 1 alliance is well on its way to double digit Titans so it's not beyond the realms of possibility in the near future. _______________________________________

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