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Battle On
Jita Exiles Cowpunching Overlords With Sovereignty
5
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Posted - 2012.02.23 17:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
As you all know, miners currently dont belong in nullsec. they dont mine enough to support all the capital builds and they pritty much waste their time since you can easily run incursion and buy the minerals and then haul. i think mining (in this case Nullsec/Lowsec mining) needs a little upgrade. so i was thinking about what it was missing, not how to boost it. and then it hit me:
at the moment you got capital ships in all shapes and sizes: PvE, PvP, Hauling, Crushing and Hauling. but for some reason you dont have one for mining. which is (tbh) really strange. so i took the time to sit down a think about what it needs and how to not make it overpowered but still good for a nullsec corperation/alliance to have a few of them mining.
so imagine a capital ship with the following specs:
4 Highslots -> 3 turret hardpoints and 1 for something else like a drone range extender (i will explain why in a second) 5 Midslots -> for shieldtanking and maybe a survey scanner 3 Lowslots -> for cargospace extenders and maybe a damage control if you want 3 Rigslots -> just like any other capital ship
75000 HP Shield (with a recharge of 20000 seconds) 50000 HP Armor 125000 HP Structure
15000 m3 Cargohold 75 m3 Dronehold 50 Mbit/s Bandwidth
Capital Mining Ship Skill Bonus: 5% Increased yield from Capital Mining Laser per level (which i will give the specs of shortly) 5% Increased Shield Resistance per level
Ship Role Bonus: 500% Increased yield from Mining Drones (since these are used way too little) 500% Increased scan range of the Survey Scanner
And now the Capital Mining Laser specs:
Highslot (obvious) 2500m3 Yield 5 minute Cycle Time enough powergrid usage so that other ships cant fit it (or have the ship get a bonus like -99,9% powergrid usage) decent CPU usage
This way it isnt overpowered or anything, but can easily help out nullsec and get more miners in nullsec as well so that not only the combat community gets into nullsec. _______________________________________________________________________ Before replying to this post, a few sidenotes to make some things clear:
-This ship is not allowed to mine in Highsec, its a capital ship so lowsec and nullsec only -This ship can use gates, but just like a capital ship, its slow and vunerable -READ THE POSTS, dont post something thats already said -if you are against this, have a good solid argument to explain why you dont like it -and last but not least, RESPECT OTHERS OPINION!
Enjoy! |

Paragon Renegade
Wyvern Operations
318
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Posted - 2012.02.23 17:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Good ideas, but the best possible thing that could be done would be getting rid of Drone alloy; cut away the bad before you add the good eh? The pie is a tautology |

Battle On
Jita Exiles Cowpunching Overlords With Sovereignty
5
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Posted - 2012.02.23 17:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Good ideas, but the best possible thing that could be done would be getting rid of Drone alloy; cut away the bad befotre you add the good eh?
well i really want the mining drones to be used more then they do atm, therefor i made it a 500% bonus yield so they bring up alot more minerals |

Toshiroma McDiesel
Lupus Draconis Dragehund
14
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Posted - 2012.02.23 17:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
This is what I've imagined should be used in Moon Mining, Something that has to be docked when you log out at the end of the day, Kinda like the ship from the new Star Trek Movie. I make the sharp pointy things that you use to make things go BOOM! -įWithout me, you wouldn't have those sharp pointy things, and without you, I wouldn't have a reason to make those sharp pointy things. |

Paragon Renegade
Wyvern Operations
318
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Posted - 2012.02.23 17:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Battle On wrote:Paragon Renegade wrote:Good ideas, but the best possible thing that could be done would be getting rid of Drone alloy; cut away the bad befotre you add the good eh? well i really want the mining drones to be used more then they do atm, therefor i made it a 500% bonus yield so they bring up alot more minerals
Cool.
I agree, but increasing the amount of minerals you mine is ultimately no different than having a lower limit The pie is a tautology |

Battle On
Jita Exiles Cowpunching Overlords With Sovereignty
5
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Posted - 2012.02.23 17:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Toshiroma McDiesel wrote:This is what I've imagined should be used in Moon Mining, Something that has to be docked when you log out at the end of the day, Kinda like the ship from the new Star Trek Movie.
moonmining is really something that should be dont by a structure, not a capital ship. and btw, this isnt starwars. we dont blow up worlds with a giant laser |

Grumpy Owly
235
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Posted - 2012.02.23 17:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Good ideas, but the best possible thing that could be done would be getting rid of Drone alloy; cut away the bad before you add the good eh?
Might want to read this recent thread afore you assume it's "all rosey" with drone alloy removal.
The mining 'buff' fallacy Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |

Battle On
Jita Exiles Cowpunching Overlords With Sovereignty
5
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Posted - 2012.02.23 17:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Battle On wrote:Paragon Renegade wrote:Good ideas, but the best possible thing that could be done would be getting rid of Drone alloy; cut away the bad befotre you add the good eh? well i really want the mining drones to be used more then they do atm, therefor i made it a 500% bonus yield so they bring up alot more minerals Cool. I agree, but increasing the amount of minerals you mine is ultimately no different than having a lower limit
true but at the moment they yield 25m3 per minute, so 500% is 125m3 per minute which is still not overpowered when mining with 5 drones |

Ajita al Tchar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
66
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Posted - 2012.02.23 18:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Battle On wrote:Paragon Renegade wrote:Good ideas, but the best possible thing that could be done would be getting rid of Drone alloy; cut away the bad befotre you add the good eh? well i really want the mining drones to be used more then they do atm, therefor i made it a 500% bonus yield so they bring up alot more minerals
Not those kinds of drones. Paragon is talking about rogue drone regions in null where "mining" can already been done with a variety of caps by shooting rogue drones and looting the alloys that drop.
But seriously, the problem with mining isn't the lack of ships, it's the material distribution and the fact that what miners do is somewhat obsoleted by those ratting in rogue drone space (and to a lesser degree mission loot drops). Plus, there's the whole snoozefest mining mechanics thing that's automated incredibly easily which means bots. AND ratting bots in drone regs. So, a ship isn't the solution for the problem mining is facing. |

Battle On
Jita Exiles Cowpunching Overlords With Sovereignty
5
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Posted - 2012.02.23 18:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ajita al Tchar wrote:Battle On wrote:Paragon Renegade wrote:Good ideas, but the best possible thing that could be done would be getting rid of Drone alloy; cut away the bad befotre you add the good eh? well i really want the mining drones to be used more then they do atm, therefor i made it a 500% bonus yield so they bring up alot more minerals Not those kinds of drones. Paragon is talking about rogue drone regions in null where "mining" can already been done with a variety of caps by shooting rogue drones and looting the alloys that drop. But seriously, the problem with mining isn't the lack of ships, it's the material distribution and the fact that what miners do is somewhat obsoleted by those ratting in rogue drone space (and to a lesser degree mission loot drops). Plus, there's the whole snoozefest mining mechanics thing that's automated incredibly easily which means bots. AND ratting bots in drone regs. So, a ship isn't the solution for the problem mining is facing.
well thats only drone region. but tbh the alloy drops should be used for other stuff like drones instead of minerals. but thats a whole other subject tbh. and botter will easily be ganked since its a capital ship, so it will not get away that easily. |

Paragon Renegade
Wyvern Operations
318
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Posted - 2012.02.23 18:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
Interesting.
Unfortunately it's also totally wrong
The pie is a tautology |

Paragon Renegade
Wyvern Operations
318
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Posted - 2012.02.23 18:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
Battle On wrote: well thats only drone region.
I cannot stress enough how bad the drone regions are for the mining profession The pie is a tautology |

Grumpy Owly
235
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Posted - 2012.02.23 18:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Interesting. Unfortunately it's also totally wrong
So you took about 5 mins to read the thread and simply dismiss those points with no reason or evidence to suggest otherwise, how very interesting.  Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |

Battle On
Jita Exiles Cowpunching Overlords With Sovereignty
5
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Posted - 2012.02.23 18:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Battle On wrote: well thats only drone region.
I cannot stress enough how bad the drone regions are for the mining profession
yeah but the discussion about drone region and drone alloys isnt this discussion. |

Grumpy Owly
235
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Posted - 2012.02.23 18:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Battle On wrote:Paragon Renegade wrote:Battle On wrote: well thats only drone region.
I cannot stress enough how bad the drone regions are for the mining profession yeah but the discussion about drone region and drone alloys isnt this discussion.
The topic is very relevant to your proposal OP as it discusses the ideas behind improving mining yields or redistribution of minerals. Which since your idea suggests improvement to yields with a capital mining ship should be of interest to you. Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |

Paragon Renegade
Wyvern Operations
318
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 18:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
Grumpy Owly So you took about 5 mins to read the thread and simply dismiss those points with no reason or evidence to suggest otherwise, how very interesting. [:roll: wrote:
The increase of price following the buff will attract more miners-to-be and the price will eventually lower as the demand is sated, then miners will leave as it becomes less lucrative, then they will be drawn back as it gets more expensive......... The pie is a tautology |

Battle On
Jita Exiles Cowpunching Overlords With Sovereignty
5
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Posted - 2012.02.23 18:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Battle On wrote:Paragon Renegade wrote:Battle On wrote: well thats only drone region.
I cannot stress enough how bad the drone regions are for the mining profession yeah but the discussion about drone region and drone alloys isnt this discussion. The topic is very relevant to your proposal OP as it discusses the ideas behind improving mining yields or redistribution of minerals. Which since your idea suggests improvement to yields with a capital mining ship should be of interest to you.
yes, drone region can farm minerals with normal capital ships in large number, but the rest of new eden doesnt. so if you want to discuss this, make a new topic or join the old topic. this topic is for this ship and how it can be very usefull |

Grumpy Owly
235
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Posted - 2012.02.23 18:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Grumpy Owly So you took about 5 mins to read the thread and simply dismiss those points with no reason or evidence to suggest otherwise, how very interesting. [:roll: wrote: The increase of price following the buff will attract more miners-to-be and the price will eventually lower as the demand is sated, then miners will leave as it becomes less lucrative, then they will be drawn back as it gets more expensive.........
Though we have yet to see this supposed shift in behaviour which ideally was the reson for the change in the first place, granted I will let time run it's course, but the interesting shift in mineral prices is of note.
Doesn't address the added inflation due to increased bounties or the idea of removing resource possibilites form other areas of space regardless of how slight they are though.
However, I cannot deny the theoretical improvement that drone poo removal can shift to improve mining possibilities.
However, at the moment I'm simply capatalising on this with the combined efforts of the Hulkageddon influence, since as a result of something going on in the market, certain mineral prices and mining/hauler prices are increasing. It is certainly one to watch however, especially if it significantly starts to effect goods prices generally in the market as a result. Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |

Grumpy Owly
235
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 18:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
Battle On wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:Battle On wrote:Paragon Renegade wrote:Battle On wrote: well thats only drone region.
I cannot stress enough how bad the drone regions are for the mining profession yeah but the discussion about drone region and drone alloys isnt this discussion. The topic is very relevant to your proposal OP as it discusses the ideas behind improving mining yields or redistribution of minerals. Which since your idea suggests improvement to yields with a capital mining ship should be of interest to you. yes, drone region can farm minerals with normal capital ships in large number, but the rest of new eden doesnt. so if you want to discuss this, make a new topic or join the old topic. this topic is for this ship and how it can be very usefull
Erm, I think your missing the point, improving mining yields does nothing to help the miner. Especially if it isnt balanced in the economy. As any improvements can simply act to oversaturate the market and therefore drive mineral values down. It's a basic mechanism of the economy.
And I'm sorry you do not own the forum, as such I'm entitled to express my opinions as I like. (I'm sorry if you think the cross posting isnt helpful, but I really don't want to have to type all the relevant discussion out when its allready available) Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |

Battle On
Jita Exiles Cowpunching Overlords With Sovereignty
5
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 18:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
oke, can you 2 please go to a chatroom and talk this out somewhere else? cause its totally not related with this ship anymore. what happens in drone region is non of my concern. if it gets nerfed or not, is also not of my concern so please go somewhere else and discuss it there. if you wanna say something, at least let it have any relation with the ship |

Battle On
Jita Exiles Cowpunching Overlords With Sovereignty
5
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Posted - 2012.02.23 18:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
it wont inflict the market that much since it will require alot of hauling to get it to highsec. the only market that will be effected is the local markets in nullsec. but tbh every nullsec corp/alliance will prob use this ship to get people farm minerals for them so that they dont have to haul them from highsec with a high chance of getting popped. it also gives miners a chance to get into nullsec without having to spend ages training combat skills while they dont want to |

Paragon Renegade
Wyvern Operations
318
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 18:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote: Though we have yet to see this supposed shift in behaviour which ideally was the reson for the change in the first place, granted I will let time run it's course, but the interesting shift in mineral prices is of note.
Doesn't address the added inflation due to increased bounties or the idea of removing resource possibilites form other areas of space regardless of how slight they are though.
However, I cannot deny the theoretical improvement that drone poo removal can shift to improve mining possibilities.
However, at the moment I'm simply capatalising on this with the combined efforts of the Hulkageddon influence, since as a result of something going on in the market, certain mineral prices and mining/hauler prices are increasing. It is certainly one to watch however, especially if it significantly starts to effect goods prices generally in the market as a result.
I haven't seen a post this well-worded or thoughtful for quite some time, it's good to see that good posters still persist "in our field".
Yes, I consider the inflation with the theoretical drone bounty to be a problem, in much the same way I consider incursions and Level 4 missions to be problems with regards to inflation. However, I feel it would be better not to suddenly just change the alloys to bounties- it would be much more preferable if another ISK sink was introduced to counteract the effects.
And "hulkageddon" or wtf it is this year, being arranged by the goons and all, doesn't really matter in the long run; an anti-miner campaign can only be sustained so long as the player populace doing the ganking has both the will and resources to do so; suddenly cutting off drone loot and making miners the 95% suppliers of minerals will make such campaigns untenable The pie is a tautology |

Grumpy Owly
235
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Posted - 2012.02.23 18:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Battle On wrote:it wont inflict the market that much since it will require alot of hauling to get it to highsec. the only market that will be effected is the local markets in nullsec. but tbh every nullsec corp/alliance will prob use this ship to get people farm minerals for them so that they dont have to haul them from highsec with a high chance of getting popped. it also gives miners a chance to get into nullsec without having to spend ages training combat skills while they dont want to
In which case I'd see it as a significant imbalance in the game and the risk/reward model. As you are then not only heavily skewing yields but moreso in certain areas and making it easier or less risky to do so theoretically as I imagine is your intended design. Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |

Battle On
Jita Exiles Cowpunching Overlords With Sovereignty
5
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 18:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
allright, since you 2 are still continueing i will just stfu and post this again tomorrow |

Battle On
Jita Exiles Cowpunching Overlords With Sovereignty
5
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Posted - 2012.02.23 18:36:00 -
[25] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Battle On wrote:it wont inflict the market that much since it will require alot of hauling to get it to highsec. the only market that will be effected is the local markets in nullsec. but tbh every nullsec corp/alliance will prob use this ship to get people farm minerals for them so that they dont have to haul them from highsec with a high chance of getting popped. it also gives miners a chance to get into nullsec without having to spend ages training combat skills while they dont want to In which case I'd see it as a significant imbalance in the game and the risk/reward model. As you are then not only heavily skewing yields but moreso in certain areas and making it easier or less risky to do so theoretically as I imagine is your intended design.
its a capital mining. its easily gankable and if all nullsec corps have one, will will balance itself. but good luck discussing the ow so worthy subject about drone region because you seem to like that more. i will stfu now and repost it tomorrow |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
1028

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Posted - 2012.02.23 18:37:00 -
[26] - Quote
Moved from General Discussion. CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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Paragon Renegade
Wyvern Operations
318
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 18:37:00 -
[27] - Quote
Don't we already have a Rorqual? :D The pie is a tautology |

Battle On
Jita Exiles Cowpunching Overlords With Sovereignty
5
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Posted - 2012.02.23 18:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
rorqual is a support ship, not a miner |

Grumpy Owly
235
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Posted - 2012.02.23 18:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
Battle On wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:Battle On wrote:it wont inflict the market that much since it will require alot of hauling to get it to highsec. the only market that will be effected is the local markets in nullsec. but tbh every nullsec corp/alliance will prob use this ship to get people farm minerals for them so that they dont have to haul them from highsec with a high chance of getting popped. it also gives miners a chance to get into nullsec without having to spend ages training combat skills while they dont want to In which case I'd see it as a significant imbalance in the game and the risk/reward model. As you are then not only heavily skewing yields but moreso in certain areas and making it easier or less risky to do so theoretically as I imagine is your intended design. its a capital mining. its easily gankable and if all nullsec corps have one, will will balance itself. but good luck discussing the ow so worthy subject about drone region because you seem to like that more. i will stfu now and repost it tomorrow
No it wont balance itself out if all null corps have one, as what about those who arent in null sec idiot? (Completley missing the point again)
But please push for your mining "death star" of inequality and bankruptcy if that is what you really want either today or tomorrow. I know it wont be implemented as is as a proposal due to the meta issues associated with it. Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |

Battle On
Jita Exiles Cowpunching Overlords With Sovereignty
5
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 18:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
first of all, if you read my post good, i said it can only be used in lowsec and nullsec secondly, i used to be in nullsec mining almost all day long. we didnt hauled 1 trit of it to highsec cause we used it to build station and capitals. just like 99% of the miners in nullsec atm, they all use their minerals in that way.
so in conclusion, the only thing different will be that there will be more capitals and maybe more stations and less hauling. but it wont really affect the highsec markets since it cant be used in highsec and lowsec will prob be a bit risky since its still a capital.
and uhm, better not take this personal, that last statement you made is really not the point. |
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