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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.03.24 23:45:00 -
[31]
This is a very good post.
Just want to add that EMP is nerfed by 10% because carbonized lead is boosted by 10%. The problem is that everyone uses tech 1 short range faction ammo and almost no one uses tech 1 long range faction ammo.
The fact that the Crow and Hyperion go faster than Minmatar counterparts make me sick. It's like if the Typhoon could control 6x bonused Ogre IIs....gallente people would go ape sh*t.
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Vanessa Vale
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.25 00:08:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Naomi Knight
what nerfs are you refering to??? Im sure those and other changes were both good/bad for each race. Atm the matar race
Lets start with heat, shall we? Please calculate the average dps of the vagabond (or the sleip) out of web range plus a couple of safety margin km, before and after heat came in. Just for the webs, no fancy pants mwd timing or anything.
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Just check them, then you ll see there is no problem with any matar bs.
Who said humor didn't have a place in eve 
Minmatar Boost Brigade |
Kelbesque Crystalis
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.03.25 00:32:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Ariel Dawn
4. EMP ammo - has less damage than racial counterparts, add the extra missing points onto EM. As it stands, it really isn't worth it over PP due to its strange allocation of damage types.
Phased Plasma ammo also does 10% less than its racial counterparts as well. It is still more useful than EMP since at least 80% of the PP damage is thermal vs the EMP ammo having less than half of its damage actually deal EM damage.
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Atomos Darksun
Infortunatus Eventus
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Posted - 2008.03.25 01:08:00 -
[34]
No.
Originally by: Amoxin
My vent is talking to me in a devil voice...
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Azael Lightshade
V i L e
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Posted - 2008.03.25 01:41:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Dingi223
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Autocannon tiers are fine. We just have smaller differences between tiers then everyone else does, both in fitting and in DPS. It's about 5% DPS difference typically between tiers, which is quite fine, and fitting differences aren't very big.
I find the medium tier guns are typically the best (as the higest tier can involve fitting compromises, and lowest tier are a tad underwhelming DPS-wise) on Minmatar ships, which is reflected in their price, and the ships appear to be balanced/geared towards them.
So if any changes to Minmatar AC tiers are going to happen, the medium tier guns should be probably considered as the baseline. Mind you, I don't think that any changes are in order - our gun tiers are very similar, unlike for other races.
Actually, the lower tier ACs appear to do more DPS than the medium tier when reloading time is taken into account due to the different clip sizes. I'm not asking for the highest tier to be boosted, or the lowest tier nerfed; all I want is for each tier to have a more specific role, even if the differences are small. Instead for Minmatar, you only get negatives by upgrading your ACs.
Here is the summary from the AC post:
150mm II Rifter: 24.67 DPS
200mm II Rifter: 24.5 DPS
220mm II Rupture: 44.15 DPS
425mm II Rupture: 44.15 DPS
220mm II Stabber: 35.32 DPS
425mm II Stabber: 35.32 DPS
D650mm II Typhoon: 48.21 DPS
800mm II Typhoon: 48.85 DPS
D650mm II Tempest: 60.26 DPS
800mm II Tempest: 61.06 DPS
You use lower tier guns for the accuracy not some make believe measure of DPS that can't measure the accuracy of your guns. Better accuracy equals better hits. Better hits equals better damage.
Please understand how gunnery works before posting suggestions. If your research is off some third-party tool that measures incorrect DPS aka best-guess DPS then you have failed the thread. 
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Derek Sigres
Eternal Guardians Corp.
The Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.25 01:50:00 -
[36]
Ooookay, clearly this thread is going places. Neverthless, while the OP has valid points I don't really agree with them.
To suppose the Speciality of minmitar is speed and agility is incorrect - while the excell at these feats this isn't the thing that makes Minmitar special. Flexability is the key to Minmitar and it's also generally their undoing.
Unlike other races, your average minmitar ship needs to be fitted with two seperate classes of weapons to succeed. Sure my Raven has two gun slots, but it's a rare situation where I actually put guns in those slots. To truly succeed as minmitar you have to invest almost double the SP into any particular ship class as other races, leading all but the most ancient Minmitar players to spend their time in eve flying ships more than a little underskilled.
True flexabilty as a necissity imparts a lack of specialization. A minmitar player probably won't have as solid of a shield tank as a Caldari player nor the robust armor tank of an Amarr player. They may not have the pure firepower of Gallente or the pure range of Caldari but something in between. Several posts have hit on this very topic already. Minmitar sit nicely in the middle of everything. The have some of the fastest ships in the game but they don't have the fastest, the also field some of the most lethal (and arguably the MOST lethal if you believe everything EFT tells you) ships out there.
Every race has a tradeoff. Caldari ships, while packing respectable firepower and tank are generally lacking when it comes to nasty tricks that are handy for PvP. Gallente ships may boast tremendous firepower but that only comes into play when ships are rubbing up against one another. Amarr can field incredible midranged firepwoer and immense tanks yet they lack any response to the extreme close and long ranges and lack the mid slots to field more than a handful of EWAR capability.
I've always like minimitar ships simply because they can generally outrun anything they can't outgun, which is as handy of an asset as you can have in the game. The OP's change suggestions, to legitimate won't undo the fundamental flaws and strengths of the race - which is a lack of focus means a lack of strength (and weakness).
On the whole however, I find the suggestiong of the OP to be reasonable, though I don't agree with the first point or the last point, even if they are reasonable and well intentioned. Afterall, from an RP standpoint just how agile is a garbage heap with a giant engine and guns strapped to it supposed to be? The last point seems to be an attempt to ride the coattails of the recent EM/EXP damage change. I'm all for a balanced ammo type but if you're going to add damage, keep the current ratio the same and boost the overall damage. Asking for a larger artillery clip is a reasonable request, even if it does beg the question of just how BIG is that clip when it has 24 1400 howitzer shells loaded? And not to disagree with the basic logic of point three but most races have trouble fitting the top tier guns without resorting to fitting mods (I know my Rokh can't fit 8 425mm Rail II's withotu fitting mods and apparently the same goes for Tachyons for Amarr).
I'm fine with giving Minmitar a boost - afterall, everyone else has gotten some love. I just don't think the answer is changing the basic nature of the Race.
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Dingi223
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.03.25 02:15:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Dingi223 on 25/03/2008 02:17:16
Originally by: Azael Lightshade
You use lower tier guns for the accuracy not some make believe measure of DPS that can't measure the accuracy of your guns. Better accuracy equals better hits. Better hits equals better damage.
Please understand how gunnery works before posting suggestions. If your research is off some third-party tool that measures incorrect DPS aka best-guess DPS then you have failed the thread.
Those DPS figures were taking into accout the hit formula as developed by EVE members, which takes into account hit chances, wrecking hits. The DPS calculations also assumes perfect optimal, and no reduction for fallout. As a result, these numbers reflect that lower tier guns are more accurate, have improved tracking, have lower CPU / PG requirements, have greater clip sizes, and therefore achieve an overall better DPS. I have a perfect understanding of how gunnery works, and this is not off some random third party tool, but rather a resource that utilises the normalised DPS calculation which makes an attempt to reflect EVE.
Secondly, you are arguing that the lower tier guns should have even better numbers since they have improved accuracy. The whole purpose of the calculation, which is stickied in this forum btw, was to show that lower tier guns do more damage over time than higher tiers. You are arguing the same point.
Now, what figures can you provide?
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Azael Lightshade
V i L e
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Posted - 2008.03.25 02:22:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Dingi223
Originally by: Azael Lightshade
You use lower tier guns for the accuracy not some make believe measure of DPS that can't measure the accuracy of your guns. Better accuracy equals better hits. Better hits equals better damage.
Please understand how gunnery works before posting suggestions. If your research is off some third-party tool that measures incorrect DPS aka best-guess DPS then you have failed the thread.
Those DPS figures were taking into accout the hit formula as developed by EVE members, which takes into account hit chances, wrecking hits. The DPS calculations also assumes perfect optimal, and no reduction for fallout. As a result, these numbers reflect that lower tier guns are more accurate, have improved tracking, have lower CPU / PG requirements, have greater clip sizes, and therefore achieve an overall better DPS. I have a perfect understanding of how gunnery works, and this is not off some random third party tool, but rather a resource that utilises the normalised DPS calculation which makes an attempt to reflect EVE.
Now, what figures can you provide?
I'm not making the point on gunnery suggestions here so no figures from me! 
I didn't mean to say it's not a good way to find out the assumption. I mean everything looks good on paper but fact is, the true DPS can't be found without RAW data. Even the developers will tell you that they would not balance just off nice line or pie charts. They have to send the troops in and get raw data and factor that in too.
That being said, just posting some DPS assumptions (good still) is not enough. There is more to the gun in game than some simulated data. Still have to find your TRUE dps in game based on raw data and start doing real active testing before you can really start saying "Hey, there is something wrong with our guns". Sounds like work but really, why argue if you don't have truth.
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Dingi223
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.03.25 02:41:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Dingi223 on 25/03/2008 02:50:32
Originally by: Azael Lightshade
I'm not making the point on gunnery suggestions here so no figures from me!
I didn't mean to say it's not a good way to find out the assumption. I mean everything looks good on paper but fact is, the true DPS can't be found without RAW data. Even the developers will tell you that they would not balance just off nice line or pie charts. They have to send the troops in and get raw data and factor that in too.
That being said, just posting some DPS assumptions (good still) is not enough. There is more to the gun in game than some simulated data. Still have to find your TRUE dps in game based on raw data and start doing real active testing before you can really start saying "Hey, there is something wrong with our guns". Sounds like work but really, why argue if you don't have truth.
I need to double check the figures, I think after that convulated posting in the stickied threads, some changes were put through in the patch notes. I need to do some reading!
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Dromidas Shadowmoon
54th Knights Templar
THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.25 03:17:00 -
[40]
Quote:
Notably, the Muninn is known for its usage of artillery, although there are some autocannon fits
I like how you use the worst ship in the game to make a point about minmatar not being all about autocannons. People have said maelstrom isn't bad with autos, but tbh we don't have our natural speed to sit back 150k and shoot thing with huge slow guns.
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Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it. |
no013
Stormwolf Holdings LLC
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Posted - 2008.03.26 03:25:00 -
[41]
Edited by: no013 on 26/03/2008 03:26:42
I think the fix to minmatar is very simple.
Fix the artillery cannon. I think increasing the clip size is not a bad boost because compare to the rail it lacks dps, range, tracking and ammo cap. At least give us something.
I do not know the issue with the auto cannons because I never really notice, but what gives? how can a lower tier out damage the higher tiers.
Our bs... Have no role in large fleet encounter. Why would a tempest need speed???
O yea I forgot about our ecw. We don't have any.
Other then that I think the minmatar race is pretty well balance besides having to spend twice as much sp on anything then most races.
Artillery cannons = Worst Dps, tracking, range and ammo cap. No cap... Why do we need cap for anything els if your sniping. |
Carth Reynolds
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.26 04:03:00 -
[42]
Originally by: no013
Edited by: no013 on 26/03/2008 03:26:42
O yea I forgot about our ecw. We don't have any.
But minmitar DOES have EWAR - Target Painters. They increase the signature radius of targets and make them easier to hit. . . In retrospect, it may as well be a Caldari invention since you usually see it on our ships.
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Sal Alo
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.26 04:35:00 -
[43]
My list about Minmatar problems:
1. Everything over Minmatar battlecruisers, is sub-par at best.
2. We need x[2-4] amount of skills for being effective compared to other races. For example, every Caldari guy can do lvl4s with 4M SP while a Minmatar one will need more than 10M to be comparable but still less effective.
3. Even with tons of skills, some Minmatar "larger" ships will be sub-par and sometimes you can't find a role for them.
4. Autocannons are par. Nothing excellent, barely decent.
5. Artilleries need some rework. The worst dps in the whole game was balanced by no capacitor needs AND the best alpha strike in the whole game but now - CCP increased ships hit points a lot - alpha strike can't justify the worst dps AND the worst tracking AND a ridiculous need of reloads.
6. We have the fastest ships in EvE (lol @ Maelstrom) but we have the worst tracking... often we can't go at full speed because we'll hit nothing! Missiles are heavily overpowered in this sense.
7. Special mention for the Minmatar Marauder, the Vargur. Another abort by CCP for Minmatar people, worst designed ship like ever.
___________________________________
ISK SELLERS: PROBLEM SOLVED, CCP +1 |
Megan Maynard
Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.03.26 05:14:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Megan Maynard on 26/03/2008 05:14:27
Originally by: Sal Alo
My list about Minmatar problems:
1. Everything over Minmatar battlecruisers, is sub-par at best.
2. We need x[2-4] amount of skills for being effective compared to other races. For example, every Caldari guy can do lvl4s with 4M SP while a Minmatar one will need more than 10M to be comparable but still less effective.
3. Even with tons of skills, some Minmatar "larger" ships will be sub-par and sometimes you can't find a role for them.
4. Autocannons are par. Nothing excellent, barely decent.
5. Artilleries need some rework. The worst dps in the whole game was balanced by no capacitor needs AND the best alpha strike in the whole game but now - CCP increased ships hit points a lot - alpha strike can't justify the worst dps AND the worst tracking AND a ridiculous need of reloads.
6. We have the fastest ships in EvE (lol @ Maelstrom) but we have the worst tracking... often we can't go at full speed because we'll hit nothing! Missiles are heavily overpowered in this sense.
7. Special mention for the Minmatar Marauder, the Vargur. Another abort by CCP for Minmatar people, worst designed ship like ever.
Where to start:
1. Typhoon?
2. That is a well known fact, and a distinguishing feature of the minmatar race....
3. Typhoon, with a ton of skills, can outdamage any other BS in the game without going faction.
4. Autocannons are capless, can shoot all damage types, and pwn people in the face on a rupture/hurricane.
5. Artillery is weaker because the ships are meant for hot, sexy, badass damage while skirting outside of web range. Even the "slow" ships for minmatar aren't that slow.
6. Which ship are you referring too? Some are good at that, some aren't. Vaga with 180's does pretty good. It's called balance, you trade speed for accuracy.
7. Vargur is a wierd ship. I can agree with you on this.
On the whole, much like the other races, a/f are the biggest negative for minmatar (not counting the new vargur, it's new) because they have no role.
Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit. |
Terraform
Synthetic Frontiers
Blue Federation
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Posted - 2008.03.26 08:44:00 -
[45]
I LOVE YOU ALL!!! <3333333
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Nick Parker
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.26 09:46:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Will you shut up all ready? You are whining about EMP ammo? What the hell?
And agility? Are you freaking kidding? My typhoon has more agility then a DRAKE. The Amarr BS are slower then haulers, and the gallente go really fast, in a straight line.
Artillery are not supposed to be the best long range type, minmatar are all about autocannons, which according to you are also broke. (Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.)
You are a caldari character whining about minmatar ships, and you are 2 months older then me. That means you probably don't have the skills yet to truly fly the ships you are stupidly commenting on.
FAIL FAIL FAIL.
CCP ignore this entire OP. PLEASE,
I'm also caldari. But I fly matari. And I'm 2 years older than you eve wise
Clip size on arties needs loving
Arties need more damage output
A/C's need loving
Agility needs boosting
Muninn and pest need love in general
Megan why are you so anti-matar? Do you enjoy being able to take some sort of advantage over matari pilots? Or did you get BBQ'd by a gank tempest early in your eve career and are afraid of that? I'm not being rude on this point,just curious.
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Liu
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.26 09:51:00 -
[47]
there are many good points on the thread, both for and against what the op has proposed. but i foresee the thread going bad places very fast. i propose we all ignore Megan Maynard and just stop replying or quoting her. the discussion would be much more interesting and productive.
my personal opinion is that although minmatar have some very very good ships, the race as a whole is lacking on certains places (artillery, lack of focus).
i think that artillery would need a higher clip size, and that high slots shouldnt be so divided between guns and missiles. also, tracking computers should boost falloff.
then, maybe some ships would need to be revised to see if they become to strong (mainly sleipnir, rupture, vaga and the recon ships)
Originally by: Apertotes
tbh, boot.ini was overpowered and needed a nerf 
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Goumindong
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.26 10:00:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Well, real men use either Fusion (vs armour tanks) or PP (vs most shield tanks). Both outdamage EMP versus armour tankers or shield tankers.
Actually the resist changes make EMP a better choice in the majority of situations where targets aren't repairing[or aren't repairing much], and you aren't using barrage.
Quote:
Autocannon tiers are fine. We just have smaller differences between tiers then everyone else does, both in fitting and in DPS. It's about 5% DPS difference typically between tiers, which is quite fine, and fitting differences aren't very big.
Its not quite 5%, you have to remember that the optimal change[as small as it is] does have a non-zero effect on hit chance when fighting in falloff. This can change damage another couple percentage depending on how far away you are from your target.
Not saying they aren't fine, but its not quite so cut and dry especially since ACs are the only guns that can realistically expect to gain due to tracking[pulses drop too much DPS, and blastesrs drop too much optimal and falloff]
Originally by: Dingi223
Those DPS figures were taking into accout the hit formula as developed by EVE members, which takes into account hit chances, wrecking hits.
They also don't take into account the fact that you won't likely have to reload and the effect that volley damage has on burst dps.
Originally by: Sal Alo
1. Everything over Minmatar battlecruisers, is sub-par at best.
1. Phoon, Maelstrom
2. No, you do not. In fact, minmatar get very good very fast. You do need missile skills, but you do not need to spend any great time honing them.
3. Just because a ship doesn't fill a role you want it to fill doesn't mean it doesn't fill a role.
4. Autocannons are indeed excellent
5. Yes, alpha does justify.
6. No, you have the best tracking, then blasters, then lasers.
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
Saietor Blackgreen
The First Foundation
Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2008.03.26 11:41:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Goumindong
5. Yes, alpha does justify.
It doesnt. Though it is big, alpha in general is much less important nowdays due to HP boost. Currently DPS > Alpha in most cases. Ships that were previosly horrifying everyone with their alphastrike - Munin and Tempest - are now the most useless HAC in the game and weakest turret-based fleet-viable BS in the game.
And if you cant turn the fight with alpha of your arties, you lose in longer engagement due to low raw dps AND low optimal AND bad tracking AND cmall clipsize.
Alpha CAN justify. But corrently it DOES NOT.
Originally by: Goumindong
6. No, you have the best tracking, then blasters, then lasers.
Thats for autocannons, which are allright. Its the artilleries we're talking about.
***
Generally, the problem of Minmatar heavy ships and artillery platforms comes from their concept itself. If the race is built around idea of light ganking ships, its really hard to design a decent BS or munin-like platform for it without falling out of the concept.
Generally speaking, agility boost for the ships and increase of damage of artilleries could help quite a lot. Warp in - fire 2-3 horrific volleys - GTFO. You dont even need much bigger clip for that. So Amarr BS/beam tactic is to fire OMFG dps nicely tanking armor, caldari - fire rails from a huge distance tanking shield, tank armor and fire more damage but less range than Caldari, and Matari - fire good damage from gallente-distance and have more chances to GTFO.
Matari artillery platforms should be glass canons. They already are, but they should be BIG glass cannons, with more chances to GTFO. At least it looks interesting, doable, hardly overpowered and matching the concept of other Matari ships.
There was a lag-argument to increase clipsize for arties, but i think this should be solved through game mechanics, not through balancing parameters. Why do turrets deactivate on reloading? I dont see any valid reason for that. Reload and keep firing, target is still there!
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Goumindong
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.26 12:28:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Saietor Blackgreen
It doesnt. Though it is big, alpha in general is much less important nowdays due to HP boost. Currently DPS > Alpha in most cases. Ships that were previosly horrifying everyone with their alphastrike - Munin and Tempest - are now the most useless HAC in the game and weakest turret-based fleet-viable BS in the game.
Go look at the actual numbers to see what the alpha of the tempest[or Maelstrom] and Muninn allow it to do. Check the numbers versus target hit point in typical engagements where you want to be using artillery
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
Ruciza
The Feminists
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Posted - 2008.03.26 12:36:00 -
[51]
Target Painters make good for the bad tracking and explain the fastest ships <-> worst tracking "problem".
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Forge Lag
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.03.26 12:40:00 -
[52]
Artillery has about the same firing time between reloads as rails. Shorter, if you use large close range ammo, longer, if you use the smaller long range ammo. Yes, artillery reloads less than rails if used for sniping. Less. Got it? Less.
Pure whine, no substance. Next "valid" argument?
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Dianeces
Repo Industries
R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2008.03.26 13:34:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Forge Lag
Artillery has about the same firing time between reloads as rails. Shorter, if you use large close range ammo, longer, if you use the smaller long range ammo. Yes, artillery reloads less than rails if used for sniping. Less. Got it? Less.
Pure whine, no substance. Next "valid" argument?
How about you being a terrible poster?
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Elles D
Natural Selection Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.26 14:04:00 -
[54]
solutions to what exactly?
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Goumindong
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.26 14:06:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Ruciza
Target Painters make good for the bad tracking and explain the fastest ships <-> worst tracking "problem".
no, they don't
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.26 14:13:00 -
[56]
The artillery clip boost is the only half reasonable part of this thread, the rest of it is *******s.
NEXT!
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you all smell! |
Trojanman190
The Conflagration
New Age Solutions Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.03.26 14:23:00 -
[57]
Id like to see:
1. Artillery Higher Clip size.
2. Artillery Higher Tracking OR Higher Optimal OR much higher falloff. Just one.
3. Artillery twice the damage half the rof. For ages our sniping personality was our alpha and it is gone. Maybe a 25% increase in damage and a 25% reduction in rof. Just something along these lines would go a long way into restoring both usefulness and personality.
4. Variation in autocannon types. Bigger guns get higher fall off maybe? Currently the dps differences in the guns is barely noticeable while the fitting and accuracy issues are extremely noticable.
5. We fight in fall off but the only ammo we have that changes our falloff range is t2. This is a bummer.
I don't want the minmatar overpowered as that is not fun for anyone involved. I want us competative like we used to be and restore the personality they had when I started playing the game almost two years ago. Versatility, high alpha hit and run snipers. All gone. I want back.
Devs hate sweeping changes so if i absolutely had to pick things that I feel MUST happen its 1, 3, and if they are feeling generous 4. As of now when a sniping gang is going out people ask why I'm in a tempest and my only answer is 'thats all i can fly.' (bs v) That is sad. No ship in the game should EVER be like that.
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Trojanman190
The Conflagration
New Age Solutions Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.03.26 14:26:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Forge Lag
Artillery has about the same firing time between reloads as rails. Shorter, if you use large close range ammo, longer, if you use the smaller long range ammo. Yes, artillery reloads less than rails if used for sniping. Less. Got it? Less.
Pure whine, no substance. Next "valid" argument?
Both quake and tremor = 10 rounds in 1400s. Emp is also 10 rounds. 425s fit over 40 rounds of the long range t2 ammo, pest fits 10. 425s fire almost twice as fast.
So 10 is not half of 40, its a fourth of 40.
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Ath Amon
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.26 14:28:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Ath Amon on 26/03/2008 14:30:35
arty need serious rework, just bigger clip size will not help them, there are many factors that makes them subpar long range weapons (range, tracking, dps) and alpha is a myth of the past
also minmatar all about autocannon, when i started minmatar where all about arties, is evident that something changed :P
as said elsewere i will like to see arties turned in "burst dmg" weapon rather than alpha dmg but thats is just my personal taste
thypoon good bs? crappastrom good bs? lol
ok if you are nothing better to fly the phoon is good but in the end is just a gimped meda with less range, less gankage (split weapon ftl) and worse tank (reversed shield/armor hps ftl)
maelstrom is good to tell to friends... look! i have a huge tank!!!1111 in other situations is just a so and so bs, can be ok for small gangs whitout logistic support or some gate camping but is pretty much a brick so imo not that good with ACs
Originally by: Diana Merris
Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
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trouser boy
The Eve Pacification Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.03.26 14:33:00 -
[60]
Well I'm glad you lot aren't in charge of gameplay modification.
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