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Taius Pax
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.24 21:37:00 -
[1]
Remove insurance completely. This should increase the the value of isk as it creates a true sink in the destruction of a ship as opposed to offsetting it with insurance payouts.
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z0de
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.03.24 21:38:00 -
[2]
If you die in the game, you die in real life.
Update my portrait! |
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.03.24 21:40:00 -
[3]
The next time you get podded you should seriously kill yourself in RL. I'm not saying that specifically to Taius Pax, nor am I actually advocating suicide per se, but being in a death-pact with your e-self would definitely be totally hXc tbh.
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Jacob Mei
Slacker Industries Limited
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Posted - 2008.03.24 21:41:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Taius Pax
Remove insurance completely. This should increase the the value of isk as it creates a true sink in the destruction of a ship as opposed to offsetting it with insurance payouts.
Might as well as change the name of the game to Alliance online then as only being a part of an alliance with perks would players be able to engage in pvp for any satsifactory level. You take insurance away causes people to be set further back then they normally would if their ship is destroyed, people would begin to avoid pvp all togeather save in the cheapest frigates and cruisers.
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Ephemeron
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.24 21:41:00 -
[5]
What I don't like about insurance is all the extra isk it injects in the game.
I wouldn't mind if insurance got nerfed. All ships above cruiser size shouldn't be covered. People who fly t2 ships already live without insurance just fine.
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.03.24 21:44:00 -
[6]
If a player destroys your ship, the game automatically gives him your name, address, and your girlfriend's favorite perfume. If no girlfriend is available, his sister. If no sister is available, his mom. 
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Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare
Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.79.3 (Updated 3/24) |
Hasak Rain
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.24 21:48:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Ephemeron
What I don't like about insurance is all the extra isk it injects in the game.
I wouldn't mind if insurance got nerfed. All ships above cruiser size shouldn't be covered. People who fly t2 ships already live without insurance just fine.
People who fly T2 ships in PvP are rich or have a rich allince/corp backing them up.
I am glad people like you are not in charge of game decisions and are largely ignored.
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Hasak Rain
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.24 21:49:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tarminic
If a player destroys your ship, the game automatically gives him your name, address, and your girlfriend's favorite perfume. If no girlfriend is available, his sister. If no sister is available, his mom.
I vote for this idea. 
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Vulchev
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.03.24 21:56:00 -
[9]
Players have an optional "hardcore" game mode, where they are immediately warped to an otherwise inaccessible system. Once they are there, they are forcibly added to a blob that probably already has around 300 members; the system then crashes, everyone limps back to dock, and has a ten minute "hardcore cooldown" before they can go "hardcore" again. In this time, links are provided so that the truly "hardcore" can flame people they don't think are "hardcore" enough on the forum.
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.24 22:12:00 -
[10]
Good proposal, this insurance-carebearism must stop 
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Val Streth
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.24 22:21:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Vulchev
Players have an optional "hardcore" game mode, where they are immediately warped to an otherwise inaccessible system. Once they are there, they are forcibly added to a blob that probably already has around 300 members; the system then crashes, everyone limps back to dock, and has a ten minute "hardcore cooldown" before they can go "hardcore" again. In this time, links are provided so that the truly "hardcore" can flame people they don't think are "hardcore" enough on the forum.
:hellyeah:
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.24 23:57:00 -
[12]
Removing insurance wouldn't do anything to 'make eve more hard core'. It would just make players become more risk-averse because more was at stake (so more uncatchable nano gangs, gatecamping recons and huge fleets being dropped on individuals or small groups), and force players to spend less time PvPing because they would be forced to spend hours running missions or playing the market on their Jita-alt to replace their losses every time their T2 fitted battleship got killed.
So no thanks.
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Avon
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.03.25 00:04:00 -
[13]
Actually, I agree with the OP - or at least make insurance more like it was in "the old days".
You'd see less expensive ships in general, and those willing to take the biggest risks would have the greatest advantage - how is that wrong?
If anything it would tend to level the playing-field more, without the insane rush towards T2 everything before you even consider undocking to pvp.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Benco97
Exchangable Properties
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Posted - 2008.03.25 00:07:00 -
[14]
I agree to be honest, I never liked insurance payouts.
It's too much AND it doesn't make sense, who would insure a warship?
Never used it, never will.
Originally by: Kirjava
This man speaks the truth, when he farts we count the length in seconds and make squillions buying winning lottery tickets.
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Ankhesentapemkah
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.03.25 00:51:00 -
[15]
With all the suicide ganking going on, Pend is now officially bankrupt.
Let's see how Eve continues from that point.
---
Take Care is the CSM party for the free and independant players! Contact us and let us relay your ideas to CCP!
Visit our Campaign Website
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JonLuc McPew
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.25 01:20:00 -
[16]
EVE is just as hardcore as you want to make it.
Get out of LowSec, run a 0.0 pipe in BoB or Ra-land and go deep as you can raising hell for as long as you can...
Call MC out and go try to pwn them...
Go to a NPC 0.0 Pirate Faction and mission for them in hostile space. Careers don't get much harder than this.
Lots to do.
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DubanFP
Four Rings
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.25 01:58:00 -
[17]
Originally by: z0de
If you die in the game, you die in real life.
"Imagines the field day Goonswarm would have with carebears if that was implimented". .
___________
Desolacer> Who the heck gives YOU the right to ruin it for others buy blowing them up.
Zaqar> CCP |
Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.03.25 02:01:00 -
[18]
Originally by: DubanFP
"Imagines the field day Goonswarm would have with carebears if that was implimented". .
It would give the term suicide gank a whole new meaning... 
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.03.25 02:02:00 -
[19]
Edited by: techzer0 on 25/03/2008 02:02:29
Un-nerf nanos.
Removing insurance doesn't affect those of us who fly T2 ships and the "payout" only covers maybe two modules 
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Originally by: CCP Mitnal
It's great being a puppetmaster
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Lord Artemis
Dark Seraph
Order of the Black Cross
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Posted - 2008.03.25 02:04:00 -
[20]
Originally by: DubanFP
Originally by: z0de
If you die in the game, you die in real life.
"Imagines the field day Goonswarm would have with carebears if that was implimented". .
Really it would be the most effective means of weeding out suspected alts.
_____________________________
Public Health Advisory - Say NO to OOC! |
Zeba
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.03.25 02:07:00 -
[21]
Eve is already hardcore enough. The problem lies in that CCP will take anyones money for a sub. 
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Q: WTF! Why?!
A: Because I can.
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In Theory
Abh Empire
Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.03.25 02:44:00 -
[22]
I'm going to be completely honest- if there wasn't sufficient insurance to cover the base cost of a T1 ship, I don't think I'd have stuck with EVE this long...
I have no problems losing a ship, and I'm not broke, but I would never have a ship ready for pvp or ratting if every time I lost a BC I had to fork out the full 40-60mil it costs ship+mods.
Insurance is meant to ease the burden of replacing the weaker T1 ships, to assist the younger (read: not as rich or supported by alliance) players in this game- where the death penalty is rough when compared to the rest of the mainstream MMO's.
It's part of the reason I like EVE, is because it doesn't go easy on you when you screw up or when you engage in pvp carelessly...
But having absolutely no reimbursement for the weaker ships when lost is absurd- and would lose this game many subs based solely on the fact that is you're not part of a well-organized alliance, you're hosed.
T2 ships don't get full insurance because they're the powerful ships that the players that have been in the game far longer can easily afford and can fly well....... jumping into a HAC after a couple months is not well-prepared.
and it doesn't make this game any more 'hardcore' it only makes it more of a job to continually fund pvp and ship losses... if you want EVE to be more hardcore, fix the lag when more than 50 ships are in local- so fleet battles actually become a reality. Maybe fix assault ships to have a role. maybe balanced speed and webs/scrams so there'll be less QQ and more pewpew.
Bringing up insurance is the least of this game's issues.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Well, that should've worked... |
Aeo IV
Xomic OmniCorporation
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Posted - 2008.03.25 03:46:00 -
[23]
"Hardcore" Eve should somehow involve real ships.
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.03.25 03:47:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Aeo IV
"Hardcore" Eve should somehow involve real ships.
Yes, but failing that, real death should suffice.
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Tyria Sharken
TalCorp Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.03.25 03:54:00 -
[25]
If you want EVE to be 'hard-core'.. Remove all security zones.. make the entire Eve Universe 0.0 and lawless.
If you want Eve to be both hard-core + be accessable to the casual player. Change the way insurance works by haveing it revoke any payed for insurance coverage if you take a criminal act in any space 0.5 or above. (that way you dont get those nice isk payouts for that cheeper-than-insurance throwaway suicide ship) This whont affect PVP in that true PVP happens in 0.4 and below and between war-dec'd targets. All it will do is put a, while not complete but rather larg, dent in how often people are 'ganked' in the saposed 'safe-space'
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"Only two great species on this planet take part in massive, organized warfare.
Men, and ants." |
Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood
ANTHRAX DEATH
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Posted - 2008.03.25 03:55:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Hasak Rain
Originally by: Ephemeron
What I don't like about insurance is all the extra isk it injects in the game.
I wouldn't mind if insurance got nerfed. All ships above cruiser size shouldn't be covered. People who fly t2 ships already live without insurance just fine.
People who fly T2 ships in PvP are rich or have a rich allince/corp backing them up.
I am glad people like you are not in charge of game decisions and are largely ignored.
Don't take this as an insult, Hasak, but to be honest what you said here is a typical noob viewpoint. New players listen to the carebears who sit in highsec mining, getting ganked by JihadSwarm, crying about getting ganked by JihadSwarm, and running missions, and getting ninja-salvaged in their mission spaces and crying about getting ninja-salvaged in their mission spaces, but having no recourse because if they mine, they'll get JihadGanked.
These carebears tell you that as soon as you enter lowser, pirates who have 30 billion isk in their wallets (from blowing up carebear CNRs) and fly HACs and Marauders and Carriers and Titans will be camping the gate waiting for you.
They tell you that as soon as you enter a 0.0 system, there will be a 100-man blob with thirty warp bubbles waiting to eat your third trimester unborn son right out of your wife's gut.
These things just aren't true. Get out of highsec and see what's really going on.
Again, this wasn't posted as an insult, a troll, or a flame... this post is a public service announcement to all of the new players who have been scared and intimidated into being carebears by the hyperbole of those who prefer the 1-player varient of EVE-Online. Note that this includes many people in high-sec corporations which don't really do much of anything together except enjoy a less active corp-chat or share a highsec research POS.
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ZW Dewitt
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.03.25 03:56:00 -
[27]
Remove sovereignty.
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Hasak Rain
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.25 04:15:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Hasak Rain on 25/03/2008 04:17:47
Originally by: Havohej
Originally by: Hasak Rain
Originally by: Ephemeron
What I don't like about insurance is all the extra isk it injects in the game.
I wouldn't mind if insurance got nerfed. All ships above cruiser size shouldn't be covered. People who fly t2 ships already live without insurance just fine.
People who fly T2 ships in PvP are rich or have a rich allince/corp backing them up.
I am glad people like you are not in charge of game decisions and are largely ignored.
Don't take this as an insult, Hasak, but to be honest what you said here is a typical noob viewpoint. New players listen to the carebears who sit in highsec mining, getting ganked by JihadSwarm, crying about getting ganked by JihadSwarm, and running missions, and getting ninja-salvaged in their mission spaces and crying about getting ninja-salvaged in their mission spaces, but having no recourse because if they mine, they'll get JihadGanked.
These carebears tell you that as soon as you enter lowser, pirates who have 30 billion isk in their wallets (from blowing up carebear CNRs) and fly HACs and Marauders and Carriers and Titans will be camping the gate waiting for you.
They tell you that as soon as you enter a 0.0 system, there will be a 100-man blob with thirty warp bubbles waiting to eat your third trimester unborn son right out of your wife's gut.
These things just aren't true. Get out of highsec and see what's really going on.
Again, this wasn't posted as an insult, a troll, or a flame... this post is a public service announcement to all of the new players who have been scared and intimidated into being carebears by the hyperbole of those who prefer the 1-player varient of EVE-Online. Note that this includes many people in high-sec corporations which don't really do much of anything together except enjoy a less active corp-chat or share a highsec research POS.
Hmm, i never said anything about "a 100 man blob in Low Sec" or "30 billion isk wallets."
I was going by what I seen in 0.0 alliances and I know for a fact that the richer corps or alliances {usually ones that has multiple BPOs and a strong industry backbone or are part of one} will even replace T2 ships to their members.
It has nothing to do with Low sec or what monsters a carebear thinks lurks behind that gate.
My point in my reply however was that just because {some} people can fly around and afford to lose poorly insured T2 ships doesn't mean this is the norm nor is it a good enough reason to have insurance nerfed.
I know some people who fly Faction ships such as Nightmares and Rattlesnakes into PvP and don't even blink if they lose them. So since these individuals can do this, i guess we should nerf that insurance.
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Titus Lewis
Suddenly Successful
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Posted - 2008.03.25 04:16:00 -
[29]
How about a compromise, where insurance payouts get halved, and Concord response times in empire get doubled.
Less safer high sec, but more risk with death.
Thats gotta be somewhat more hardcore, yes? |
Hasak Rain
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.25 04:37:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Titus Lewis
How about a compromise, where insurance payouts get halved, and Concord response times in empire get doubled.
Less safer high sec, but more risk with death.
Thats gotta be somewhat more hardcore, yes?
What difference will it make to shorten the response time in high sec? Either way, Concord WILL get the attacker or else it is considered an exploit. A few extra seconds isn't going to make any difference because the victim will always go down with the first volleys if the gankers know what they are doing. Giving the gankers more time really isn't necessary. Either way, it is going to end up with all ships destroyed and somebodies alt coming in to clean up.
Your idea will only **** off the Pirates since less insurance means less profits. I have a feeling CCP is going to do something like that eventually though considering all the whining about high sec suicide ganks around here.
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Tyria Sharken
TalCorp Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.03.25 04:52:00 -
[31]
lol Hasak if you dont like the idea of Halfing insurance.. i know you'd hate my idea a few posts up =D
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"Only two great species on this planet take part in massive, organized warfare.
Men, and ants." |
Hasak Rain
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.25 05:16:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Tyria Sharken
lol Hasak if you dont like the idea of Halfing insurance.. i know you'd hate my idea a few posts up =D
Personally, I wouldn't care that much if they did. I just don't think it will really fix anything.
All it will do is make life harder on the average noob who scrapes by to buy his first Cruiser or battlecruiser but loses it. It wouldn't help suicide gankers any either as it cuts into their profits.
You could argue that it would be a good isk sink which the game needs but most vets know how to make lots of isk in a jiffy and they won't even blink. Again, it only hurts the new players who haven't established a good isk making proffesion yet.
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Tyria Sharken
TalCorp Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.03.25 05:20:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Hasak Rain
Originally by: Tyria Sharken
lol Hasak if you dont like the idea of Halfing insurance.. i know you'd hate my idea a few posts up =D
Personally, I wouldn't care that much if they did. I just don't think it will really fix anything.
All it will do is make life harder on the average noob who scrapes by to buy his first Cruiser or battlecruiser but loses it. It wouldn't help suicide gankers any either as it cuts into their profits.
You could argue that it would be a good isk sink which the game needs but most vets know how to make lots of isk in a jiffy and they won't even blink. Again, it only hurts the new players who haven't established a good isk making proffesion yet.
Dont see how it would hurt the noob any.. the way ive 'though' it up, it'd only renig the insurance on the 'aggresser' in 0.5 or higher space.. not the one getting shot at.. so the only time it'd hurt any new players are those that get scamed into firering on someone in 0.5 or higher space befor the persone they shoot at commits a criminal act.
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"Only two great species on this planet take part in massive, organized warfare.
Men, and ants." |
Hasak Rain
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.25 05:29:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Tyria Sharken
Originally by: Hasak Rain
Originally by: Tyria Sharken
lol Hasak if you dont like the idea of Halfing insurance.. i know you'd hate my idea a few posts up =D
Personally, I wouldn't care that much if they did. I just don't think it will really fix anything.
All it will do is make life harder on the average noob who scrapes by to buy his first Cruiser or battlecruiser but loses it. It wouldn't help suicide gankers any either as it cuts into their profits.
You could argue that it would be a good isk sink which the game needs but most vets know how to make lots of isk in a jiffy and they won't even blink. Again, it only hurts the new players who haven't established a good isk making proffesion yet.
Dont see how it would hurt the noob any.. the way ive 'though' it up, it'd only renig the insurance on the 'aggresser' in 0.5 or higher space.. not the one getting shot at.. so the only time it'd hurt any new players are those that get scamed into firering on someone in 0.5 or higher space befor the persone they shoot at commits a criminal act.
Sorry, i wasn't talking about your idea. I just meant if they nerfed insurance in general like a lot of people have suggested here and in past threads.
Your idea sounds like it would completely eliminate high sec ganking and pirates would have to resort back to flipping miner's cans to get targets. I don't think THEY would like that.
I only do my pvping in Low sec and 0.0 so I couldn't care less.
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Selena Rayne
Obsidian Conclave
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Posted - 2008.03.25 06:00:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Selena Rayne on 25/03/2008 06:00:27
EvE needs perma death before it can be labeled a "Hardcore" game. When you die you just respawn back in your clone, get a new ship and you are off again...not much different from WoW apart from being more time consuming and a expensive. Perma death would bring the immersion value back to the game, engagements would have to be carefully chosen and the political aspect of the game would have a far greater relevance.
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Myshella Drake
Ward-Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.25 06:02:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Havohej
Don't take this as an insult, Hasak, but to be honest what you said here is a typical noob viewpoint. New players listen to the carebears who sit in highsec mining, getting ganked by JihadSwarm, crying about getting ganked by JihadSwarm, and running missions, and getting ninja-salvaged in their mission spaces and crying about getting ninja-salvaged in their mission spaces, but having no recourse because if they mine, they'll get JihadGanked.
Why do i smile to myself when reading this
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Proud to stand up for my Profession
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood
ANTHRAX DEATH
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Posted - 2008.03.25 06:04:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Havohej on 25/03/2008 06:05:25
Originally by: Hasak Rain
People who fly T2 ships in PvP are rich or have a rich allince/corp backing them up.
You've missed my point here, Hasak. You said in the first post I quoted, which I re-quote now that people who PvP in T2 ships are rich or are part of a rich corp/alliance that pays for their ships.
In your reply to that, you reiterate the same belief, saying:
Originally by: Hasak Rain
My point in my reply however was that just because {some} people can fly around and afford to lose poorly insured T2 ships doesn't mean this is the norm nor is it a good enough reason to have insurance nerfed.
This suggests that you think that everybody who flies poorly insured T2 ships is rich or part of a rich corporation, and I hold that it is not an absolute fact of EVE that everyone who PvPs in something other than a Tech 1 frigate is rich.
In my alliance there are a number of pilots who run around in Sacrileges and Vagabonds and such and when they lose them, they're back in 0.0, grinding sec status and ISK by ratting in their Tier 1 battleships (Typhoon ftw?) to be able to afford a new HAC or Recon or whatever they lost.
Just as you said nothing about actual combat situations directly, nor did I say anything in support or against the current Insurance system (which, for the record, I haven't got any problems with)
I also said "don't take this as an insult", but the powerful emo-ness of your reply suggests you did, so have fun with your defeatist attitude towards EVE and I hope you enjoy whatever game you eventually quit for.
"I can't go to lowsec and play in PvP because everybody is richer than me and they haz moar SPz and I'll get wtfpwnt by thar uber 1337ness so I haz to stay in highsec." is the attitude I was addressing, and you have it in spades if your first post is to be believed.
If that's not so, then good, you're better off for it. :)
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Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.03.25 06:06:00 -
[38]
Make it possible to sell or trade kill rights.
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.03.25 06:16:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Havohej
This suggests that you think that everybody who flies poorly insured T2 ships is rich or part of a rich corporation, and I hold that it is not an absolute fact of EVE that everyone who PvPs in something other than a Tech 1 frigate is rich.
In my alliance there are a number of pilots who run around in Sacrileges and Vagabonds and such and when they lose them, they're back in 0.0, grinding sec status and ISK by ratting in their Tier 1 battleships (Typhoon ftw?) to be able to afford a new HAC or Recon or whatever they lost.
Just as you said nothing about actual combat situations directly, nor did I say anything in support or against the current Insurance system (which, for the record, I haven't got any problems with)
I also said "don't take this as an insult", but the powerful emo-ness of your reply suggests you did, so have fun with your defeatist attitude towards EVE and I hope you enjoy whatever game you eventually quit for.
"I can't go to lowsec and play in PvP because everybody is richer than me and they haz moar SPz and I'll get wtfpwnt by thar uber 1337ness so I haz to stay in highsec." is the attitude I was addressing, and you have it in spades if your first post is to be believed.
If that's not so, then good, you're better off for it. :)
Hahah... you described me perfectly there. I fly T2 ships as long as I can keep them, but when they do pop I'm out that 100-200mil and pretty much have to get back out and rat for a week or two to replace my loss (notice I'm not in an alliance, makes it fun )
That is, unless someone wants to jump a deadspace tanked mission ship into my area and be kind enough not to let the good stuff go pop
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Originally by: CCP Mitnal
It's great being a puppetmaster
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