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Leowen Industrial Giants	Posted - 2008.03.24 23:48:00 - [1] Amongst its other interests Industrial Giants are one of EVE's largest T2 Component producers, with 150 factory slots producing about 750k components a week. We currently seed Caldari space with a constant supply via the Nonni and Jita markets. We buy about 15b worth of materials every week, and have a combined inventory of materials and components valued at over 75b at any given time. Right now for example we have about 2m components in stock. And we have a dream... Look in any of the regional 'hubs' other than Jita and you see a sporadic supply of components at best. Lots of T2 producers live many jumps away from Jita, yet they travel there week after week for a reliable supply of components. Inconvenient to say the least. We see an opportunity to seed all of the other hubs with a reliable and reasonably-priced supply of components, so that local T2 producers can buy closer to home. EVE needs to have a reason to be at least a little less dependant on Jita, and we hope to help make that happen. The Opportunity: You will be a franchisee of Industrial Giants' components business. You will have access to a regular supply of components, at sub-Jita pricing which you will then sell on in your chosen operating market. As more and more local T2 producers buy from you, I expect business will grow steadily over a period of weeks and months. The Numbers: You will buy at Jita lowest sell price minus 5%. As many of you know Jita prices are VERY competitive, and undercutting it by 5% makes my margins fairly slim. You then sell at Jita +5% to +10% for a total net margin to you of 10-15%. You must pay up-front for your sales stock with each delivery. Franchisee Rules: As this is being run as a franchise operation, -IG- has a number of operating rules that must be adhered to; these rules are primarily intended to ensure the success of the business. You must range all 36 T2 components at all times in your chosen market. Your sell-out pricing will be within 5-10% of Jita price at all times, to encourage a growing number of locals to shift their purchasing away from Jita. Price gouging will not be allowed. You will only sell in the agreed chosen market. You may expand to further markets only as pre-agreed with me. Initial stock-holding must be at least 180k components - 36 x 5k of each type to seed the market.
Leowen Industrial Giants	Posted - 2008.03.24 23:48:00 - [2] Q&A: Some questions that spring to my mind - I'm sure there will be plenty of others... Q: Why are you doing this? A: I really want to see Jita de-centralised somewhat, and I think this could help a lot. I think a lot of T2 builders will stop travelling to Jita to buy if their local hub has a consistent supply of components at Jita-linked prices. Q: Why wouldnt I just build my own components and do this myself? Why buy stocks from you? A: We have some advantages thanks to our scale - huge buying power and huge stocks. You will probably make higher margin this way than building yourself, and you don't have the pain of building Q: Can I sell my goods in any market I choose? A: No, you will be allocated a 'territory', which will initially be one regional hub. You can expand to additional hubs in the future as our relationship develops Q: How do I get my components from you, can you deliver? A: No, you'll need to either collect yourself or organise a haulage contract. Courier corps feel free to advertise your services in this thread... Q: If you are pitching this as a franchise, is there a franchise fee? A: Nope, just the upfront cost of components stock. Q: How much money will I need to start this up? A: Your initial stock is likely to cost somewhere between 4-5 billion Q: Be honest, will this make me rich? A: Well Jita market transacts over 1m components a day, a well-operated regional hub in say Hek could turn what, 5-10% of that business? You do the math... We're not talking small numbers here. Q: What if I break your rules, what happens? A: We just cut you off, no more supply. We'll find another partner to cover your market. Q: How will I track Jita pricing to ensure my prices are in line A: We have a trader in Jita 24/7. There will be a private channel set up giving daily Jita price updates Q: How many franchisees will you have? A: We'll take guidance on how and which regional hubs are viable, and the goal will be to cover them all. Ideally we'll have just one or two partner corps as our franchisees covering all markets, but we'll see what interest comes in... That's all I can think of for now, fire away with your ideas/comments/questions. No flames though please - let's keep this thread clean. I'm trying something fairly new here I think, we'll see how it goes. Meanwhile please keep your comments constructive. Thanks. Leo
Leowen Industrial Giants	Posted - 2008.03.24 23:49:00 - [3] Reserved
Admiral Grevious Stormlord Battleforce Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.03.25 00:58:00 - [4] 36 T2 components that are sold at 5-10% of Jita. Wow. So is there a quota? What if someone gets a crappy region that fails to develop? If one of the components sell out, can you just get a resupply of that one component? Or will you have to purchase another bundle? With the constant undercutting in Jita which drives prices down, how often are prices expected to be updated to be kept at Jita sell +5% to +10%? Or do you just want a "set it and forget it" approach? (who doesn't love Ron Popeil?) I think it's a fascinating idea and I think it will take some dependence from Jita, but I think there will be a bunch of people holding the bag with 180k components. If that happens to multiple people, I'm sure they'll leave some buy orders out in whatever region they've been assigned, but they'll bring most of that inventory right back to Jita.
Leowen Industrial Giants	Posted - 2008.03.25 01:08:00 - [5] Originally by: Admiral Grevious 36 T2 components that are sold at 5-10% of Jita. Wow. So is there a quota? What if someone gets a crappy region that fails to develop? If one of the components sell out, can you just get a resupply of that one component? Or will you have to purchase another bundle? With the constant undercutting in Jita which drives prices down, how often are prices expected to be updated to be kept at Jita sell +5% to +10%? Or do you just want a "set it and forget it" approach? (who doesn't love Ron Popeil?) I think it's a fascinating idea and I think it will take some dependence from Jita, but I think there will be a bunch of people holding the bag with 180k components. If that happens to multiple people, I'm sure they'll leave some buy orders out in whatever region they've been assigned, but they'll bring most of that inventory right back to Jita. Good questions. To answer them one at a time... No quota, I'll take guidance on which and how many hubs we should service, my early thoughts are at least one hub per factional space. So maybe Amarr, Oursulaert, Hek? I'm not too clued up geographically to be honest... I think any region will take a matter of weeks not days to mature, but at Jita-linked prices I can't see this failing to be honest. Why wouldn't T2 builders buy locally if they can? Some will even move away from Jita as their end-product will fetch better prices elsewhere... If your market does turn out to be a bit naff, we'll talk and you can try somewhere else. Partial resupplies are no problem - our supplies are pretty huge. This plan has been in the works for a few weeks now, and we've been scaling up so that we're totally confident of meeting demand. I'd like to see sell orders updated daily if poss, but at least every 2 days. Any serious franchisee would want that too. In terms of people left holding the bag - note my usage of the word 'partner'. I'm not doing this for a quick buck or to offload stock, I'm looking for a long-term business here. That means taking care of my partner(s). Any franchisee will have exclusivity in their region, and there will also be a 'buy-back' option so there is no real risk.
Admiral Grevious Stormlord Battleforce Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.03.25 01:50:00 - [6] Quote: In terms of people left holding the bag - note my usage of the word 'partner'. I'm not doing this for a quick buck or to offload stock, I'm looking for a long-term business here. That means taking care of my partner(s). Any franchisee will have exclusivity in their region, and there will also be a 'buy-back' option so there is no real risk. With a buy-back, I agree, there isn't much risk. This is awesome.
Shadarle LI0NS Industries	Posted - 2008.03.25 03:00:00 - [7] Interesting way for you to combat the constant downward trend of most of these components. Spreading it around, if it works, will cause a general upward shift in prices across the board which only helps you. Of course it costs you 5% to do so, but not really since sell price - 5% = buy price in many cases, sometimes buy would be even lower. As someone with such large supply capability this is a brilliant overall idea... if you can find people to help you. I may be willing to supply a particular region for you, if it isn't already taken. I'll have to look into it a bit more tonight if I get a chance, if not tomorrow.
Starlight Horizons Starlight Horizons Corporation	Posted - 2008.03.25 04:14:00 - [8] Depending on my shareholdeers I would like to extend Starlight Horizons Corporation into this adventure. I already haul T2 mods from Jita to other regions and this would streamline that process.
Leowen Industrial Giants	Posted - 2008.03.25 09:23:00 - [9] Originally by: Shadarle Interesting way for you to combat the constant downward trend of most of these components. Spreading it around, if it works, will cause a general upward shift in prices across the board which only helps you. Of course it costs you 5% to do so, but not really since sell price - 5% = buy price in many cases, sometimes buy would be even lower. As someone with such large supply capability this is a brilliant overall idea... if you can find people to help you. I may be willing to supply a particular region for you, if it isn't already taken. I'll have to look into it a bit more tonight if I get a chance, if not tomorrow. Wow Shadarle you're making me sound clever This isn't actually an attempt to stop a price slide at all - I came up with this idea about 2 months ago and have spent the time since buying/training alts to scale up production. I'm just looking to grow as everyone does and this seemed a good plan. The kicker for me is that giving some potency to other markets is going to be great for everyone in the game, having Jita as the only shop in town is making things kind of boring. To be able to 'do my bit' whilst expanding my business is a good feeling. I think I'll find someone, if not I have other routes. I could be more trusting and recruit someone to the corp as a sales agent. Or I could buy another alt or two and do it myself. I prefer this solution though so fingers crossed... Thanks for your interest. Feel free to convo me when I'm on. Leo
Robacz Essence Trade Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2008.03.25 11:23:00 - [10] It will be interesting to see if it works. I tried it about half year ago and I failed, but T2C market is stronger since then. I tried to supply all 36 T2Cs into regional hubs, but after about 3 months I moved back to Jita. Sales were low, prices generally higher than Jita but sometimes dropped under Jita due to local competetion and a lot of component types did not sell at all (usually other than local race). At the end of experiment logistic costs were higher than increased margins could cover. Good luck though, I hope it will work. Less T2Cs on Jita market is good.
Kazzac Elentria Sanctuary Aegis Consortium	Posted - 2008.03.25 12:31:00 - [11] Originally by: Leowen Originally by: Shadarle Interesting way for you to combat the constant downward trend of most of these components. Spreading it around, if it works, will cause a general upward shift in prices across the board which only helps you. Of course it costs you 5% to do so, but not really since sell price - 5% = buy price in many cases, sometimes buy would be even lower. As someone with such large supply capability this is a brilliant overall idea... if you can find people to help you. I may be willing to supply a particular region for you, if it isn't already taken. I'll have to look into it a bit more tonight if I get a chance, if not tomorrow. Wow Shadarle you're making me sound clever This isn't actually an attempt to stop a price slide at all - I came up with this idea about 2 months ago and have spent the time since buying/training alts to scale up production. I'm just looking to grow as everyone does and this seemed a good plan. The kicker for me is that giving some potency to other markets is going to be great for everyone in the game, having Jita as the only shop in town is making things kind of boring. To be able to 'do my bit' whilst expanding my business is a good feeling. I think I'll find someone, if not I have other routes. I could be more trusting and recruit someone to the corp as a sales agent. Or I could buy another alt or two and do it myself. I prefer this solution though so fingers crossed... Thanks for your interest. Feel free to convo me when I'm on. Leo Whether intentional or not Shar is correct.. spreading the inventory over a larger spread will only help to normalize prices, especially inter regionally where you can find some interesting discrepancies between item prices.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.03.25 12:47:00 - [12] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Whether intentional or not Shar is correct.. spreading the inventory over a larger spread will only help to normalize prices, especially inter regionally where you can find some interesting discrepancies between item prices. I dont see Shar posting in this post?
Ulstan Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.25 15:05:00 - [13] I think this is a fascinating idea. How many partners are you envisioning? I suppose it all depends on how many other hubs you wish to establish. 4? 12? Also, I don't know that making everyone buy a bundle with an even amount of every component. Depending on your region, surely some components will be in much higher demand than others?
Leowen Industrial Giants	Posted - 2008.03.25 16:00:00 - [14] Originally by: Ulstan I think this is a fascinating idea. How many partners are you envisioning? I suppose it all depends on how many other hubs you wish to establish. 4? 12? Also, I don't know that making everyone buy a bundle with an even amount of every component. Depending on your region, surely some components will be in much higher demand than others? Yes I've thought about this, and would be happy for just 2k of each of the Pulse Generators and Weapon Units as these have a lower sell rate. Bringing the total initial holding to 156k comps from the above quoted 180k. With regard to racial weighting - I don't think this should influence the initial holding. 5k of each isn't a big number bearing in mind the market size... In terms of number of partners and hubs, as above I want at least one hub per faction space, but I need to do some research as to whether that is the right number. I want to find a balance between good coverage and maximum partner benefit. The maximum will be one partner per hub, minimum will be one partner covering all of them. Depends on the interest I get back...
Leowen Industrial Giants	Posted - 2008.03.25 16:13:00 - [15] OK this thread is getting some good attention, and I've had several in-game mails. It's fair to say there is a decent level of interest in this plan. So, next steps. All interested parties should follow this process to apply: A) Please post your interest here as a public record - a minor level of security for both of us B) Please evemail me your application. Your evemail should tell me a bit about who you are, and how you would plan to move ahead with this. Please state things like which market(s) you wish to cover, and confirm how you plan to cover your chosen market - will you just pop in to the station every few days to check your orders, do you have a dedicated trader char checking your orders several times a day, or is it something in between? You should also confirm that funds are readily available to cover the initial order. From those applications I will decide partners in a few days time, and we'll get this ball rolling. Meanwhile, for everyone else with outstanding questions or concerns please feel free to post here. Cheers Leo
Leowen Industrial Giants	Posted - 2008.03.25 16:17:00 - [16] Originally by: Robacz It will be interesting to see if it works. I tried it about half year ago and I failed, but T2C market is stronger since then. I tried to supply all 36 T2Cs into regional hubs, but after about 3 months I moved back to Jita. Sales were low, prices generally higher than Jita but sometimes dropped under Jita due to local competetion and a lot of component types did not sell at all (usually other than local race). At the end of experiment logistic costs were higher than increased margins could cover. Good luck though, I hope it will work. Less T2Cs on Jita market is good. The key here I think is for supply and pricing to be consistent and Jita-linked. Make it crazy for builders NOT to buy from their local hub. Thus my franchise rules - if any -IG- partner is seen hiking prices just because there is no competition they'll be gone. Put a reliable supply of T2C into Oursulaert at (roughly) Jita prices and I'm confident demand will grow steadily as people begin to trust the market.
Cogwheel New Eden Credit Bureau	Posted - 2008.03.25 16:26:00 - [17] Originally by: Leowen A) Please post your interest here as a public record - a minor level of security for both of us I'm interested Quote: B) Please evemail me your application. Your evemail should tell me a bit about who you are, and how you would plan to move ahead with this. Please state things like which market(s) you wish to cover, and confirm how you plan to cover your chosen market - will you just pop in to the station every few days to check your orders, do you have a dedicated trader char checking your orders several times a day, or is it something in between? You should also confirm that funds are readily available to cover the initial order. I'll fill in the blanks from what I sent you already.
Myrdyr Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.25 16:35:00 - [18] Are the 180k adv mat baskets evenly distributed or arranged by relative market volume? Please post constructively. ~Saint
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.03.25 16:39:00 - [19] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 25/03/2008 16:41:40 This has more chances of turning into a successful enterprise for everyone than my attempt to introduce Jita buy prices for L4 mission loot in all the regions. And it will shift interest away from Jita. At least partially. However if you really want to shift interest completely you will need to pick it up where I left it. Good luck.
Myrdyr Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.25 16:47:00 - [20] Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 25/03/2008 16:41:40 This has more chances of turning into a successful enterprise for everyone than my attempt to <anything goes here> sorry Saint Please post constructively. ~Saint
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.03.25 16:55:00 - [21] Originally by: Myrdyr Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 25/03/2008 16:41:40 This has more chances of turning into a successful enterprise for everyone than my attempt to <anything goes here> sorry Saint It's not my fault you people have your own limitations.
Leowen Industrial Giants	Posted - 2008.03.25 17:04:00 - [22] Originally by: Myrdyr Are the 180k adv mat baskets evenly distributed or arranged by relative market volume? The minimum buy-in is 5k of each type. If that becomes 5k of some and 7k of others that's fine, as long as it's 5k or more on everything except Pulse Gens and Weapon Units.
Opera Tor Aliastra	Posted - 2008.03.25 17:06:00 - [23] I am interested, expect my eve-mail
Chandra Rose Thorny Rose Enterprises	Posted - 2008.03.25 17:28:00 - [24] I am also interested in opening discussions with you about this. Expect an Evemail.
Brisco Smiley Peppermint Bay Trading Company	Posted - 2008.03.25 17:47:00 - [25] This is a great plan, but I do not have sufficient funds available to participate now. Amarr will be the most important regional hub. Cheers, Brisco Smiley
Lady Thorn Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.03.25 19:18:00 - [26] Edited by: Lady Thorn on 25/03/2008 19:19:16 Wrong Character.
Chandra Rose Thorny Rose Enterprises	Posted - 2008.03.25 19:19:00 - [27] Reposted from and EVEmail discussion, as requested by Leowen. Would you be interested in joint Marketing. To make the regional hubs work we will need to make sure that people know the other hubs are supplied, some of this can be via forums posts, but would you be open to the idea of jointly funding other types of advertising such as an Eon Advert or even advertising via IskSense (EVE Based ad serving service)?
Enihcam Xes School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.03.25 19:54:00 - [28] I'm interested. Excuse the exclimation point character, but this is the one I actually play. I'll send a mail in-game.
Kazzac Elentria Sanctuary Aegis Consortium	Posted - 2008.03.25 20:07:00 - [29] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Whether intentional or not Shar is correct.. spreading the inventory over a larger spread will only help to normalize prices, especially inter regionally where you can find some interesting discrepancies between item prices. I dont see Shar posting in this post? Unless I misread his statement... only a few comments in
Cogwheel New Eden Credit Bureau	Posted - 2008.03.25 20:10:00 - [30] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Unless I misread his statement... only a few comments in Shar ≠ Shad WTB Lavista a sarcasm indicator...

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