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Rethor Badus
Eye Of Horus
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Posted - 2008.03.25 11:19:00 -
[1]
O/ All,
Was sitting in a station looking at my absolution & thought to myself....
Hmmm..
I cant really tackle.... I cant really gank...., and if i tank... well... i cant do that amazingly well either.....
I have a rarther odd idea as to how to fix it.. but hear me out...
Old layout
X7 Highs
X3 Mids
X7 Lows
6 Guns
1 Launcher
This ship really cant solo tbh..., and that launcher slot helps in no way at all.
I propose the following change.
Highs X7
Mids X2
Lows X8
+1 Gun slot
Added grid & CPU as required
Yes i know, i hear alot of ppl screaming "omg, this ship cant solo at all now!?!, ...
But.., this ship would have a noticable damage increase and a moderate tank increase, at the cost of any solo ability.., then this ship would become and damage & tanking powerhouse. Yes it would have to sacrifice a gun to fit a gang mod, but the extra low would compensate for the damage..
It would become a slow but powerfull ship, with 0 EW ability and 0 fancy moves.., just alot of pew pew pew & a sturdy hull for staying power.
Or is it just me who thinks its a decent idea...?
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.25 11:23:00 -
[2]
zzzzzzzz go and fly it a bit more because atm you have no clue...
But as we are in "lets imbalance the perfectly balanced commmand-ships line" id say add 2 mids to sleipnir to help it tackle.
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Dark Voynix
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2008.03.25 11:28:00 -
[3]
2 med slots???? Crap idea
just for curiosity... what u will put in those slots? mwd+point? that will force you to use constantly mwd to keep your opponent in scrable/optimal range.
imho its much better have a third med for a web. else your cap will die really fast.
What this ship need is +1 turret, end of story.
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Rethor Badus
Eye Of Horus
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Posted - 2008.03.25 11:32:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Dark Voynix
2 med slots???? Crap idea
just for curiosity... what u will put in those slots? mwd+point? that will force you to use constantly mwd to keep your opponent in scrable/optimal range.
imho its much better have a third med for a web. else your cap will die really fast.
What this ship need is +1 turret, end of story.
Well, the point is that you dont tackle.., change the ship so it cant solo, but is far more effective in a gang,
You would probly fit
Injector -> Mwd or Afterburner or summat
I do fly an abso & a astarte.. but atm i cant think of any reasons to use my absolution apart from when i attack mission runners who have low base EM resists....
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.25 11:35:00 -
[5]
I do fly abso, astarte and sleip (+nighthawk on other account). I think you still have no clue.
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Govenor Shran
Blue Moon Rising
Blood and Steel
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Posted - 2008.03.25 11:37:00 -
[6]
Thats a prety interesting idea... It might become the hardest command ship to beat 1v1 but it would be the easiest to get away from once you pop the tackler.
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Dark Voynix
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2008.03.25 11:37:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Dark Voynix on 25/03/2008 11:37:56
i agree with you that the abso doesn't shine in a comparison with the astarte, but the proposal u made make this ship even less versatile . imho 7 turrets would make them more inline to his counterpart, that's all.
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Rethor Badus
Eye Of Horus
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Posted - 2008.03.25 11:47:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Dark Voynix
Edited by: Dark Voynix on 25/03/2008 11:37:56
i agree with you that the abso doesn't shine in a comparison with the astarte, but the proposal u made make this ship even less versatile . imho 7 turrets would make them more inline to his counterpart, that's all.
I agree, but versatility isnt amarrs flavour anyway. Also a nice specalised damage dealer for a gang would be nice, but not that threatening when solo at all.
It would be totally vunerable to any forms of EW, nuets, nos, anything with speed, bubbles etc.
But great in small gangs with the more versatile command ships.
Atm you can break them down to
Astarte - Gank / Best damage / Good soloability
Sleip - Good damage / Decent Tank / Good speed / Good soloability
Nighthawk - Decent Damage / Great Tank < Could do with something extra tbh when you look at it like this.
Abso - Average damage - Average Tank - Sub standard solo ability - Slow <<< This is why i believe it need s a change to make it
Abso - Great Damage - Great Tank. End. :)
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Atius Tirawa
Wreckless Abandon
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.03.25 11:52:00 -
[9]
Taking away the midslot will kill the ship. Command ships are pretty well balanced as it is and I think there are far better things for CCP to be doing then to change something that does not need to be changed.
Srsly, the Absol is a fantastic ship as is - why you would kill it in this way? So you can nano it? Train for a sleph if you want to nano dude. . .
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Riho
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.03.25 11:54:00 -
[10]
go fly it more... abso is fine. even whit 6 turrets.
its a gang ship.... thats why its called COMMAND ship ffs. you dont have to have point on it. i fit mwd, sensor booster, cap inj on mine. no web or point.
gang mod in the utility slot or launcher/nos/neut whatever
----------------------------------
This is Me, fighting stupidity one post at a time.
PS: There are no computer BUGs, there is stuff called "Random Features"
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brother stud
Underworld Protection Agency
The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:19:00 -
[11]
if u cant solo in an abso, u shouldnt really be flying one, my abs has a tank that no one i know has as high, and the gank i get out of it is insane, and i do have tackling points too, so lets down what it can do
Gank-check
Tackle-check
Tank-check
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Trojanman190
The Conflagration
New Age Solutions Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:22:00 -
[12]
Originally by: brother stud
if u cant solo in an abso, u shouldnt really be flying one, my abs has a tank that no one i know has as high, and the gank i get out of it is insane, and i do have tackling points too, so lets down what it can do
Gank-check
Tackle-check
Tank-check
Dewd you forgot, lasers look freaking cool.
Look cool-check.
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Ceremony Garp
Servant's of order
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:30:00 -
[13]
A more constructive post would be, why the heck has the retrobution only got 1 mid slot.......
Assault ship my ass.....
If you want to train Amarr you better have charisma lvl 30 because your going to need all the friends you can, to enjoy the game.
This post was brought to you by the minmitar and gallente fanboys brown nose flamebaits that big up other races ships and talk down there own.....
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Commander Thrawn
Fluffy Rabbit Killers
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:42:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dark Voynix
Edited by: Dark Voynix on 25/03/2008 11:37:56
i agree with you that the abso doesn't shine in a comparison with the astarte, but the proposal u made make this ship even less versatile . imho 7 turrets would make them more inline to his counterpart, that's all.
Aggreed, the abso is a good ship. Only drawback is the dps, its got none. +1 turret and the grid/cpu to fit would fix this.
as for the op who says it can't tank. lol
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Goumindong
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:42:00 -
[15]
If you add another gun, low and remove a med. Where do i put my sensor boosters, and gang mod?
If i'm locking as fast as a sensor boosted battleship and doing less damage and don't have a gang mod, why not just fly a battleship?
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
Gneeznow
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:48:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
zzzzzzzz go and fly it a bit more because atm you have no clue...
Quoting this, because I am down
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Rethor Badus
Eye Of Horus
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Posted - 2008.03.25 13:17:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Commander Thrawn
Originally by: Dark Voynix
Edited by: Dark Voynix on 25/03/2008 11:37:56
i agree with you that the abso doesn't shine in a comparison with the astarte, but the proposal u made make this ship even less versatile . imho 7 turrets would make them more inline to his counterpart, that's all.
Aggreed, the abso is a good ship. Only drawback is the dps, its got none. +1 turret and the grid/cpu to fit would fix this.
as for the op who says it can't tank. lol
Reading 4tw (well it could be)
I didnt say it cant tank, im saying that it doesnt tank that much better than the astarte & tanks worse than the nighthawk & worse than the sleipnir (speed is a tank, and a better one)
I actually said
Gank .. nope ... tackle ... nope... tank.. well it dont do that amazingly well either :/
The Abso needs something, as its slow, its tank is sub standard when it fits for any damage and its damage is sub standard if it fits for any decent tank.
Those who think the abso is already a great solo ship need a relatity check.
You fit cap booster point & web....
Ok im still gonna get away and bloob, no kill
You fit mwd point and booster.
Ok, i mwd towards you... web you... mwd past... /waves and warps off..., ohh and your cap would die trying to stay close
You fit point, booster, sensor booster < alrite in gangs but again... cant solo effectivly..
I dont care how many noobs in badly fit ravens you smoked.. against skilled pvpers the abso is a big fat slow target when solo and an easy kill.
Its slow, lacks mid slots, absurdly vunerable to all forms of EW.
But if you push it more away from being able to solo, but made it REALLY great for gangs, it would become alot more usefull.
Not every ship has to be a solo pwnmobile.
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Ishina Fel
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.03.25 13:28:00 -
[18]
The Absolution is perfectly fine.
Bored during Downtime? Why not try Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN! |
Goumindong
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.25 13:28:00 -
[19]
Not not supposed to be used alone, its a gang ship.
Run with a passive hit point based tank, and use a gang mod[if you have the skills]. Fit towards gank. Rely on others to repair you after a battle[unless flying with a damnation].
Then you will see the utility and niche that it fills. Its pretty much fine, maybe a 7th turret could be added with another high slot, but that is very iffy.
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
Riho
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.03.25 13:29:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Rethor Badus
Originally by: Commander Thrawn
Originally by: Dark Voynix
Edited by: Dark Voynix on 25/03/2008 11:37:56
i agree with you that the abso doesn't shine in a comparison with the astarte, but the proposal u made make this ship even less versatile . imho 7 turrets would make them more inline to his counterpart, that's all.
Aggreed, the abso is a good ship. Only drawback is the dps, its got none. +1 turret and the grid/cpu to fit would fix this.
as for the op who says it can't tank. lol
Reading 4tw (well it could be)
I didnt say it cant tank, im saying that it doesnt tank that much better than the astarte & tanks worse than the nighthawk & worse than the sleipnir (speed is a tank, and a better one)
I actually said
Gank .. nope ... tackle ... nope... tank.. well it dont do that amazingly well either :/
The Abso needs something, as its slow, its tank is sub standard when it fits for any damage and its damage is sub standard if it fits for any decent tank.
Those who think the abso is already a great solo ship need a relatity check.
You fit cap booster point & web....
Ok im still gonna get away and bloob, no kill
You fit mwd point and booster.
Ok, i mwd towards you... web you... mwd past... /waves and warps off..., ohh and your cap would die trying to stay close
You fit point, booster, sensor booster < alrite in gangs but again... cant solo effectivly..
I dont care how many noobs in badly fit ravens you smoked.. against skilled pvpers the abso is a big fat slow target when solo and an easy kill.
Its slow, lacks mid slots, absurdly vunerable to all forms of EW.
But if you push it more away from being able to solo, but made it REALLY great for gangs, it would become alot more usefull.
Not every ship has to be a solo pwnmobile.
stop PvPing on paper... really
and sleip has speed tank? ... i havent seen one that doesnt cost less than 3 bil isk to fit that can speed tank (it includes high grade snake set... low grade isnt enough.. i know.. i tryd)
abos tank is way better than astartes... as astart hast to use cap to be effective... abso doesnt have to use THAT much as it has resist bonus.
what would you rather have... weaker resist and boost bonus and pray you dont get volleyd to death or high resists whit weaker rep, but you dont have to worry about getting volleyd to death.
ill take the last as i have flown the astarte enough to know the difference.
and again... ABSO is a GANG ship ffs... you have friends whi have points.
i fly 2 configs:
mwd/web/injector (thinking of changing this to mwd/point/injector as most of the time im out of web range.. but its great if you get a cpetor or something small close and web it and then nuke down :) )
mwd/sensor booster/injector
in gangs you shoot primary.. primary will be webed and pointed anyways so why waste slots on a ship that doesnt have to tackle... you have ships like recons and ceptors and t1 cruisers and BC to do that for you
you dont ahve to be able to do everything on one ship... it has its upsides (damage and tank.. dont tell me abso damage sucks... if you say that i say train more skills) and downsides... no or very little ew
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This is Me, fighting stupidity one post at a time.
PS: There are no computer BUGs, there is stuff called "Random Features"
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.25 13:38:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 25/03/2008 13:40:32
Quote:
The Abso needs something, as its slow, its tank is sub standard when it fits for any damage and its damage is sub standard if it fits for any decent tank.
I was trying to be nice to you and advised you to fly more. Now i wont be nice: you are pretty dumb.
Astarte fit for gank has almost no tank. Astarte fit for tank has pityful damage output.
Sleipnir fit for tank is pretty slow and both astarte and abso can kill it before it gets out of scram range. Sleipnir fit for gank usually has laughable tank (gank+speed is setup used most often). But in both cases said sleipnir has even less slots available to fit tank than abso/astarte.
No, adding another turret wont "balance" it. It will make abso into most unbalanced field command ship as Eos was before (compared to fleet commands). Atm abso damage is tad lower than astarte but has much better range (hits up to 24km with full scorch damage compared to astartes 16km with half damage form null).
If you had half a brain you could understand that thanks to this abso can keep out of web range and still deal damage. And yes - abso is tad faster than battleships thus it can both dictate range (and flee when things go bad) and deal full damage. Astarte needs to get into web range which is "do or die" approach.
As for "it cant tackle" part: mwd/scram/injector - i can tackle battleships and BCs pretty well in this. If you want to tackle cruisers bring cruiser. Otherwise i can cry that my carrier cant tackle well.
In field setup abso's tank is one of meanest tank you can meet. Surely, max-tank setup NH or Sleip can outtank it but you will NEVER see them in combat. Why? Because noone uses ALL mids for tank on those ships. Abso can use all lows for tank if it wishes to thus becoming one of heaviest tacklers in game.
But i guess you fly it and you should know this.
Also: your proposed change will make it deal same damage as astarte. So... where will astartes "gank" go? Especially when abso will have both "tank" and "gank"?
Oh yea one more thingy: whats your command ship skill level? And gunnery levels? And engineering (including overheat) stuff? If they arent all at lvl5 you have no place to complain at all.
EDIT:
yeh one thingy i forgot. In GANGS (place where you take more than your sorry butt into combat) while RR takes part abso is even better due to resists bonus. Resist>rep amount when using logistic ships on you.
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Markit Broker
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.03.25 13:44:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Rethor Badus
...
Was sitting in a station looking at my absolution & thought to myself....
That's your problem.
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burek
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.03.25 13:56:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Markit Broker
Originally by: Rethor Badus
...
Was sitting in a station looking at my absolution & thought to myself....
That's your problem.
Rofl!
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Riho
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.03.25 14:01:00 -
[24]
Originally by: burek
Originally by: Markit Broker
Originally by: Rethor Badus
...
Was sitting in a station looking at my absolution & thought to myself....
That's your problem.
Rofl!
if you see this guy in a Absolution... and he doesnt like you.... stay away.
hes the reason im training amarr on this char aswell :P
----------------------------------
This is Me, fighting stupidity one post at a time.
PS: There are no computer BUGs, there is stuff called "Random Features"
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Dreadpilot Roberts
REUNI0N
Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.25 19:20:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
I do fly abso, astarte and sleip (+nighthawk on other account). I think you still have no clue.
I also do fly abso, astarte and sleip. And I think he has a point. Not with the -1 med but with the +1 turret slot. It's a "meh" command ship atm. It can gank+tank reasonably well but it cant solo well, as it should be lol. A +1 turret slot would compensate for the gimped dmg output (due to damage types) imho.
The abso is a fabulous ship due to the fact that with basic t2 fit you can make it shine and be a little better than other CS's. But other CS's have the ability to get an i-win button if you invest heavily in them ( like a nano-claymore, or an XL sb + DG invuln sleip, or corpum repping astarte ). The abso really cant compete with that ... cuz of it's crap dmg output with 6 hardpoints....
P.S. No use in flying command ships over tech1 tier2 BCs if you dont have ubar leadership skills anyway.
I'm sorry, did I say u could speak ? |
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.25 21:00:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Dreadpilot Roberts
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
I do fly abso, astarte and sleip (+nighthawk on other account). I think you still have no clue.
I also do fly abso, astarte and sleip. And I think he has a point. Not with the -1 med but with the +1 turret slot. It's a "meh" command ship atm. It can gank+tank reasonably well but it cant solo well, as it should be lol. A +1 turret slot would compensate for the gimped dmg output (due to damage types) imho.
With +1 turret slot abso will deal damage EQUAL to astarte. And with its damage types (i advise you to check t2 ship line resists and you will understand why EM is second best choice after explo vs t2 ships) it will be much heavier hitter than astarte. Heavier tank than astarte + equal gank at same time? With better range? I dont think so.
Face it: amarr will NOT deal same damage as blasterboats using pulses because they have range. We already have tad broken zealot (and not by being useless but being tad overpowered), no need to make same thing with absolution.
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Dreadpilot Roberts
REUNI0N
Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.26 07:06:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Dreadpilot Roberts on 26/03/2008 07:06:17
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Dreadpilot Roberts
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
I do fly abso, astarte and sleip (+nighthawk on other account). I think you still have no clue.
I also do fly abso, astarte and sleip. And I think he has a point. Not with the -1 med but with the +1 turret slot. It's a "meh" command ship atm. It can gank+tank reasonably well but it cant solo well, as it should be lol. A +1 turret slot would compensate for the gimped dmg output (due to damage types) imho.
With +1 turret slot abso will deal damage EQUAL to astarte. And with its damage types (i advise you to check t2 ship line resists and you will understand why EM is second best choice after explo vs t2 ships) it will be much heavier hitter than astarte. Heavier tank than astarte + equal gank at same time? With better range? I dont think so.
Face it: amarr will NOT deal same damage as blasterboats using pulses because they have range. We already have tad broken zealot (and not by being useless but being tad overpowered), no need to make same thing with absolution.
Since when are heavy pulse II dealing the same damage as heavy neutron blaster II's ? That's news to me lol... and no ... the gaps in ships tanks vary a lot. Only missile boats get to exploit those gaps right, and projectile turret ammo to some extent...
edit: not only the turret dmg is smaller but the drone dmg will be smaller also ....
I'm sorry, did I say u could speak ? |
Riho
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.03.26 07:38:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Dreadpilot Roberts
Edited by: Dreadpilot Roberts on 26/03/2008 07:06:17
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Dreadpilot Roberts
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
I do fly abso, astarte and sleip (+nighthawk on other account). I think you still have no clue.
I also do fly abso, astarte and sleip. And I think he has a point. Not with the -1 med but with the +1 turret slot. It's a "meh" command ship atm. It can gank+tank reasonably well but it cant solo well, as it should be lol. A +1 turret slot would compensate for the gimped dmg output (due to damage types) imho.
With +1 turret slot abso will deal damage EQUAL to astarte. And with its damage types (i advise you to check t2 ship line resists and you will understand why EM is second best choice after explo vs t2 ships) it will be much heavier hitter than astarte. Heavier tank than astarte + equal gank at same time? With better range? I dont think so.
Face it: amarr will NOT deal same damage as blasterboats using pulses because they have range. We already have tad broken zealot (and not by being useless but being tad overpowered), no need to make same thing with absolution.
Since when are heavy pulse II dealing the same damage as heavy neutron blaster II's ? That's news to me lol... and no ... the gaps in ships tanks vary a lot. Only missile boats get to exploit those gaps right, and projectile turret ammo to some extent...
edit: not only the turret dmg is smaller but the drone dmg will be smaller also ....
try training skills up from lvl1 and then see the damage.. really .. lvl 1 in skills is not good enough. 7 turret abso would be the best command ship instant... it would have higher tank to gank ration than any other command ship.
atm you have to fit lots of faction to get asatrtes tank anywhere near absos t2 tank. if they added 7th turret the ship would be nerfed in the future to something you wouldnt want to fly
----------------------------------
This is Me, fighting stupidity one post at a time.
PS: There are no computer BUGs, there is stuff called "Random Features"
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Rawr Cristina
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.03.26 07:42:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ishina Fel
The Absolution is perfectly fine.
^
Only Command Ship that can tank like a beast AND deal damage so high it should be illegal 
...
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.26 08:02:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Dreadpilot Roberts
Since when are heavy pulse II dealing the same damage as heavy neutron blaster II's ? That's news to me lol... and no ... the gaps in ships tanks vary a lot. Only missile boats get to exploit those gaps right, and projectile turret ammo to some extent...
It deals "almost" same damage because abso gets rof and damage compared to 2x damage. Also im comparing sensible setups (this means 3 neutrons 4 ions on astarte + 2 magstabs and dualrep). And even in setup above astarte's tank is much weaker than absolutions (dont believe me? get maxskill astarte and maxskill absolution, set them 1km apart and start blasting, abso wins everytime).
Again - you ignored range advantage of absolution which enables it to deal damage up to 24km while staying far from web range.
As far as resists go - on t2 armor tanked ships EM is usually second worst resist (all ships have explo hole except for amarr which have thermal hole instead - but even here EM is second lowest resist). Ofc minmatar are exception due to racial t2 resist bonus on EM (but who armortanks t2 minnie ships anyways? ).
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Riho
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.03.26 08:12:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Ofc minmatar are exception due to racial t2 resist bonus on EM (but who armortanks t2 minnie ships anyways? ).
munnin.. but those are rare and most of the time dont tank at all as they use artillary.
rest are shield tanks
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MY VIEW ARE MY OWN, I DON'T REPRESENT MY CORPORATIONS VIEWS HERE... stop mailing me.. plz
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Grytok
moon7empler
Ev0ke
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Posted - 2008.03.26 11:37:00 -
[32]
[WTS] clue...
Leave the Absolution alone, as there's nothing wrong with it.
Amarr are not ment to gank and tank. They either tank or gank, which the Absolution does fine.
Saying that it is not inline with a Astarte because of the missing 7th turret is pure failure, as the Absolution has 5 times the range of an Astarte, which makes up to it.
Also it's damage-output isn't low either, as it dishes out near 600DPS if you've trained up your skills.
Also 3 Mids are the right number, as you can fit MWD, CapInjector + scram or web. Scram for solo, web for gangs. Makes it very versatile imho.
.
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adriaans
Advanced Capital Ship Designs
Hephaestus Rising
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Posted - 2008.03.26 12:58:00 -
[33]
what i believe all field command ships need is +1 med slot, abso and nighthawk could use a 7th primary weapon hardpoint too.
-sig-
Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr! (Or make Amarr the only race able to deal EM damage from turrets).
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Willy Joe
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.03.26 13:35:00 -
[34]
What about 8 highslots ( with the current number of hardpoints ) and no cpu / pwd increase ?
I'd love to be able to fit 2 offlined modules up there and overload my guns for longer during fights !
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