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Rialtor Yarrrateers	Posted - 2008.03.26 16:33:00 - [121] Originally by: Havok Dryke If the NWO (which doesn't exist) wants to reduce the population by 5 billion people, I vote that Sephra's the 1st to go. wth is wrong with you? the NWO doesn't exist? you're living in a dream world. Haven't you ever seen WCW? So you care to retract that statement? ---- sig ---- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Sephra Star The Galactic Collective	Posted - 2008.03.26 17:30:00 - [122] Originally by: Rialtor Originally by: Havok Dryke If the NWO (which doesn't exist) wants to reduce the population by 5 billion people, I vote that Sephra's the 1st to go. wth is wrong with you? the NWO doesn't exist? you're living in a dream world. Haven't you ever seen WCW? So you care to retract that statement? I won't retract a statement I know to be true. The simple fact is for my entire life I have either been self employed with lots of free time for the internet, or retired and nothing but time for the internet. In other words READING. I grew up in a time before anyone could afford to have a computer in their home and was a teenager when the first ones began to appear. I grew up when you had to learn DOS to do anything with a computer and was among the first to experience the internet and before thaty the local BBS systems people would host in their homes on a telephone line. I used to play TRAVELLER (the computer game MMO). A precursor to EVE. I have lived in a world before beepers and cell phones. Who are you kidding? I have studdied history all my life and arranged my lifestyle to afford me to devote most of it to reading and learning and exploring the cosmos. The reason I come off weird to people is due to my experience and my education which I can say I could have never gotten in a University. I don't even count the private prep school I was sent to as I knew how to read at the age of three and school was just boring anyway. All I did was read a book to drown out most teachers. I won't even bring in my military service which is a pretty strange tale in and of itself. In a word PSYOP. The point I am trying to make here is this. I have devoured more knowledge than I could ever hope to recall in detail, but that knowledge is integrated into my perception, perspective, and all the judgements I make. Tiny seemingly insigificant details that the average person could not possibly hope to duplicate in their mental collage and all of it integrated into my thoughts. From experience I know when I am certain of something. Often times I may not be able to verbally explain the reasoning, but the side of my brain that most people do not use conciously I do use conciously and that is where my intuition comes from. I was born with it. That was how I was able to read at such a young age. There is a video out on the net anyone can access now that has George Bush Sr. in a speech called "Toward a New World Order" that he made on September 11, 1991. You cannot find an unedited version of it on the internet anymore. I watched that video at least 20 times years ago before it was edited. The key words that were edited out of it specificly stated "IN TEN YEARS". What a bloated ego maniac that man had to contrive 911 exactly 10 years to the day he announced it. If you have been duped into thinking this New World Order does not exist, or that it was scuttled, or postponed I will not argue with you. These people have spent many decades putting this plan into action and what is put out for public consumption is only done to further their final goal. I can only say what I know. What I know is that we as a global family are living under the threat of an impending mass genocide to reduce the worlds population. It is not something I believe. It is something I KNOW. When I say I know something what I am really saying is... I HAVE SEEN IT
Fenderson Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.03.26 17:33:00 - [123] Originally by: Keorythe Back to the OP. Universal healthcare isn't working out as well as it used to be. In fact as some of the other posters have mentioned just about every UHC system is starting a ration system. Services are getting more complex and more expensive while populations are growing or in the case of baby boomers..aging. On top of that the types of problems being treated has expanded from life threatening and basic prevention to everything including pain treatment in the US. Surprisingly when patients discuss their "rights" these costs have been added to their demands. Due to heavy government regulation there is no real competition to bring down pricing. No one is debating which hospital would be better for them or which company is offering a better and cheaper procedure for their problem. Due to the nature of the regulation the amount of competition between insurance agencies is also diminished. Lets not even bother to include the general laziness that the average American exhibits when it comes down to finding their own services nor the pawning off of responsibility to "someone else" when it comes down to their own general welfare. Maybe if my fellow Americans would actually give a damn about themselves more instead demanding someone else take that responsibility things might be a bit different. You are ignoring the fact that our system in the US heavily rations healthcare already. in the US, the rationing is based on a combination of how much you can pay, your lifestyle and health info, and previously existing medical conditions. if we had a UHS system, at least we could be honest with ourselves and make real decisions about rationing rather than leaving it to be decided entirely by the interests of private individuals/organizations. DO YOU PLAY POKER???? Join ingame channels "DOA Poker" and "Eve Online Hold'em"
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.03.26 17:43:00 - [124] Originally by: Sephra Star Originally by: Cmdr Sy Do you have your slot? The question for YOU is do you have yours. Yes. EVE CCG Trinity Booster
ceaon Porandor Imperium Aeternum	Posted - 2008.03.26 17:57:00 - [125] Edited by: ceaon on 26/03/2008 17:59:58 this remember me a documentary called "The Miami Model" enjoy your "American dream" u voted that crap on last 50 years now enjoy it edit: BTW u remember this http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=725001&page=1 d(^_^)b
Havok Dryke Golden Gavel Enterprises The Cooperative	Posted - 2008.03.26 17:58:00 - [126] Originally by: Rialtor Originally by: Havok Dryke If the NWO (which doesn't exist) wants to reduce the population by 5 billion people, I vote that Sephra's the 1st to go. wth is wrong with you? the NWO doesn't exist? you're living in a dream world. Haven't you ever seen WCW? So you care to retract that statement? I will retract my statement when you show me cold hard proof that the NWO exists... your link doesn't work btw -------------------------------------- EVE is a cold, harsh world, filled with people that would kill you without a second thought. The forums are even worse.
Fenderson Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.03.26 18:01:00 - [127] Originally by: Havok Dryke Originally by: Rialtor Originally by: Havok Dryke If the NWO (which doesn't exist) wants to reduce the population by 5 billion people, I vote that Sephra's the 1st to go. wth is wrong with you? the NWO doesn't exist? you're living in a dream world. Haven't you ever seen WCW? So you care to retract that statement? I will retract my statement when you show me cold hard proof that the NWO exists... your link doesn't work btw that was supposed to be a joke... NWO was (is?) a pro-wrestling team of some sort. i am sad that this thread has been mostly derailed by Sephra. DO YOU PLAY POKER???? Join ingame channels "DOA Poker" and "Eve Online Hold'em"
Sephra Star The Galactic Collective	Posted - 2008.03.26 18:06:00 - [128] I did not derail it at all. I was merely intergecting in my way that a global pandemic would make the issue of a healthcare system kinda useless. In fact it will make the issue of any kind of health care at all pretty useless. After all the ultimate goal is to kill off billions of people. Not save, or extend their lives.
Fenderson Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.03.26 18:11:00 - [129] Originally by: Sephra Star I did not derail it at all. I was merely intergecting in my way that a global pandemic would make the issue of a healthcare system kinda useless. In fact it will make the issue of any kind of health care at all pretty useless. After all the ultimate goal is to kill off billions of people. Not save, or extend their lives. so basically your approach is that all discussion about anything is pointless unless you are talking about global conspiracies. you make me laugh and cry at the same time. DO YOU PLAY POKER???? Join ingame channels "DOA Poker" and "Eve Online Hold'em"
Havok Dryke Golden Gavel Enterprises The Cooperative	Posted - 2008.03.26 18:13:00 - [130] Originally by: Fenderson Originally by: Havok Dryke Originally by: Rialtor Originally by: Havok Dryke If the NWO (which doesn't exist) wants to reduce the population by 5 billion people, I vote that Sephra's the 1st to go. wth is wrong with you? the NWO doesn't exist? you're living in a dream world. Haven't you ever seen WCW? So you care to retract that statement? I will retract my statement when you show me cold hard proof that the NWO exists... your link doesn't work btw that was supposed to be a joke... NWO was (is?) a pro-wrestling team of some sort. i am sad that this thread has been mostly derailed by Sephra. My bad,I never follow wrestling Sephra, the offer of me listening is still open if you can provide proof. -------------------------------------- EVE is a cold, harsh world, filled with people that would kill you without a second thought. The forums are even worse.
Sephra Star The Galactic Collective	Posted - 2008.03.26 18:29:00 - [131] Edited by: Sephra Star on 26/03/2008 18:30:26 Originally by: Havok Dryke Sephra, the offer of me listening is still open if you can provide proof. I suppose we could always rendition any number of notables we have come to know who frequent the boob tube with their 800 word vocabulary news speak. Find a nice quiet spot and do unto them what they have had done unto others.
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2008.03.26 18:42:00 - [132] I don't understand how USA works in some fields, this being the top of my list. I'm not even from USA and I think it's a disgrace. ________________________ Comming back June 5th...
Suze'Rain Under the Wings of Fury Atrocitas	Posted - 2008.03.26 18:45:00 - [133] Wow. 5 pages already. I foresee epic levels of tinfoil-hattery to come in this thread. orders popcorn and for my point of view, I strongly oppose a US healthcare system. Anything that gives people like the original poster who think that public services like medical care or buses are "communist" an increased chance of survival is clearly amoral and wrong, and should be opposed, on grounds of Darwinian morals.
Fenderson Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.03.26 18:55:00 - [134] Originally by: Suze'Rain Anything that gives people like the original poster who think that public services like medical care or buses are "communist" an increased chance of survival is clearly amoral and wrong, and should be opposed, on grounds of Darwinian morals. DO YOU PLAY POKER???? Join ingame channels "DOA Poker" and "Eve Online Hold'em"
Sephra Star The Galactic Collective	Posted - 2008.03.26 19:08:00 - [135] Originally by: Suze'Rain Anything that gives people like the original poster who think that public services like medical care or buses are "communist" an increased chance of survival is clearly amoral and wrong, and should be opposed, on grounds of Darwinian morals. Not when the Cult who owns the government has been engaged in the intentional assault of the populations immune system as well as our reproductive systems. Consider the population of West Virginia who are largely uneducated, but no less intelligent given the oportunity for an education. They are just plain old country folk who would have faired far better than most other Americans in terms of survival due to both cultural skills and natural health if you were to consider their natural fitness to survive on Darwinian morals. It is unfortunate for them that their health has been compromised with genetic defects due to the intentional multi-generational poisening of the land they live on due to the highest concentration of poisenous chemicle plants in the country. By Darwinian Morals it is the SOB's who own the factories who are in actuality the poorer specimins of our species, but who afford the best healthcare at the expense of the health of their industries victims. I am afraid Darwinian Morals in the world we live in has been made null and void when it comes down to determining who is best fitr to survive.
Vulchev School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.03.27 00:08:00 - [136] Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale I want to troll (like a communist) /signed Fixed.
Vulchev School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.03.27 00:10:00 - [137] Originally by: Sephra Star Not when the Cult who owns the government yadda yadda blah blah tinfoil aliens terrorists nine eleven ...seriously. Why is it whenever I see a thread, I see you spouting off more of this David Icke crud? The Church of Scientology is THAT WAY.
Suze'Rain Under the Wings of Fury Atrocitas	Posted - 2008.03.27 00:55:00 - [138] Originally by: Vulchev Originally by: Sephra Star Not when the Cult who owns the government yadda yadda blah blah tinfoil aliens terrorists nine eleven ...seriously. Why is it whenever I see a thread, I see you spouting off more of this David Icke crud? The Church of Scientology is THAT WAY. I dont think sephra's quite claimed to be the son of god yet. but it's not far off.
Taraniis MAFIA	Posted - 2008.03.27 11:15:00 - [139] Originally by: Ryan Scouse'UK I live in the UK - we have free Healthcare. we pay for nothing \o/ Technically yes, realistically no. We pay National Insurance which covers the cost of a state pension and national healthcare. However I happen to be in the priviledged financial state where I can afford private healthcare. My gripe with the current system in the UK is why do I have to keep paying the same rate of N.I contributions even though I don't use NHS hospitals and if I do my health plan pays for the sub contracting of doctors/nurses/surgeons/facilities? But I'd rather have it this way than the US way which sounds quite dire if you happen to be on a low income. So my tax bill is a bit higher, at least I can stay healthy if I hit hard times.
Cassandra Beckinsale Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.03.27 14:12:00 - [140] Edited by: Cassandra Beckinsale on 27/03/2008 14:13:16 It was not my aim to make such long topic. Anyway, I want just to put in a coin: If you have seen Michael Moore movie regaridng health care, you have then seen that the communist and devil island of Cuba have cured the Heros of the 11 september that americans health system was leaving to death... If only 1/5 of the money all americans pay for the wars will be driven toward health care, americans we will have a normal health care like all other world, and thanks to this we will not see more americans die or flee in canadian countries in search of health care-- that total "sick".
Cassandra Beckinsale Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.03.27 14:31:00 - [141] Edited by: Cassandra Beckinsale on 27/03/2008 14:34:58 Edited by: Cassandra Beckinsale on 27/03/2008 14:32:23 Originally by: Ademaro Imre Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 25/03/2008 17:30:47 Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 25/03/2008 17:18:48 Originally by: Tarminic Until recently I didn't have health insurance, as I couldn't afford it. About a month or two ago I got an incredibly poor combination of the flu, bronchitis, and a viral infection that kept me out of work for two weeks. I ended up having to go to the emergency room just to get an antibiotic prescription. That visit cost me over twelve hundred dollars that I probably won't be able to pay either. I was finally able to get insurance through my work, but the system as it exists today is clearly and obviously broken. /signed Alternatively, you could have went to any of the clinics that dot all cities and suburbs who charge their fees based on your income. Your visit might have cost you $15. What state do you live in? Every major health insurance provider has online rate calculators. One barrier to reducing health insurance is that most states still make it a requirement that health insurance providers must be based in the state, so most people can not buy insurance across state lines. I go to to such a clinic as they will accept insurance, you typically get faster service there, and they will charge less, especially if all you need is antibiotics. If you live in the South-West USA - then that might be more of a problem because 10% of Mexico is occupying the US for its free medical services to poor people. It is better if you inform yourself a bit. Not only ppl are dying in US, but US health care system is like the number 37 in the world, nearl africaan states. Also, when you pay taxes, these taxes are used to build up "things" in a state where you will never even go, or to feed up wars that kill your sons. So why not use these taxes for the health care system? Consuider also that a good amount of ameriucans do not want to feed war, but their taxes are still used to make war... So... please... Edited: Oh and also, for all those "no comment" ppl that state gasoline = heath care: If i do not have gasoline i take public bus system or i can even walk... if i do not have health care system i may die. Feel the difference?
Rialtor Yarrrateers	Posted - 2008.03.27 15:54:00 - [142] Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale It is better if you inform yourself a bit. Not only ppl are dying in US, but US health care system is like the number 37 in the world, nearl africaan states. Also, when you pay taxes, these taxes are used to build up "things" in a state where you will never even go, or to feed up wars that kill your sons. So why not use these taxes for the health care system? Consuider also that a good amount of ameriucans do not want to feed war, but their taxes are still used to make war... So... please... Edited: Oh and also, for all those "no comment" ppl that state gasoline = heath care: If i do not have gasoline i take public bus system or i can even walk... if i do not have health care system i may die. Feel the difference? No one said the healthcare system in america didn't need reforming. But universal healthcare isn't the only way to make it work. I like living in a free society where I get to choose the services I want for the most part. I don't like things forced upon me by the state and/or federal government. I'm an adult and I don't need a nanny to take care of me. Most Americans are this way, we're a free, and independent people. The reform should be to make healthcare costs cheaper so everyone can afford it, and this should have been the case. There's no reason that medical care shouldn't be cheaper. There are so many advancements in medicine that it's ludricous prices are higher and not lower. One needs to look for root causes and not just methods of payment. The more sensible approach is to determine wh healthcare costs are so high and to fix it. It's one thing to offer a service where poor people can elect to sign up with the promise of "free healthcare", but it shouldn't be taken from a non-member to pay for it. I don't believe in socialist policies which take money from the community and re-allocated by a community. Also yes some taxes are collected by the federal government and given to states. I don't support those agencies either. The department of health, energy, etc. should all be abolished. There's really no need for those agencies, they're a net negative imo. They are the source of most of the lobbying in washington, and they add a level of beaucracy that doesn't need to exist. Most taxes that actually pay for things are not taken in the form of an income tax. The income tax goes to pay interest of money borrowed from the fed. The taxes that actually make this country operate are taken through other means. Excise taxes, sales taxes, commerce taxes, etc. Also healthcare is a luxury and not some essential service. Public transportation is more important that healthcare really. If I had to list the things that truly needed, healthcare wouldn't be very high on that list. And being that you can get partial healthcare makes the need for full healthcare even the more useless to me. The only real insurance someone should require is accidental coverage. ---- sig ---- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Sephra Star The Galactic Collective	Posted - 2008.03.27 17:33:00 - [143] The Issue of Health Care is pretty much wrapped up in this..
Fenderson Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.03.27 17:48:00 - [144] i would definitely prefer a true universal healthcare system, but i would also be willing to settle for the following: -outlaw the practice of penalizing/disqualifying/raising rates on someone for pre-existing conditions -set up an optional government health insurance program that is mostly paid for by the people using it, subsidized slightly by taxes. -pricing must be based on geographic areas. in other words, everyone in the same area pays the same price. -other pricing factors can be figured in, but only by approval of (state?) legislature. in other words, you can penalize people for age or smoking, but only in ways approved by the government. As i see it, this would be a decent compromise between providing for the needs of all americans and allowing for freedom of choice and not creating much additional tax burden. DO YOU PLAY POKER???? Join ingame channels "DOA Poker" and "Eve Online Hold'em"
Rialtor Yarrrateers	Posted - 2008.03.27 18:16:00 - [145] Originally by: Fenderson -outlaw the practice of penalizing/disqualifying/raising rates on someone for pre-existing conditions But Insurance is a risk reward business, you're asking the business to perform a bad business practice. Quote: -set up an optional government health insurance program that is mostly paid for by the people using it, subsidized slightly by taxes. No major qualm here, something like this would be a good solution to poorer americans. I see nothing wrong with offering the program. Quote: -pricing must be based on geographic areas. in other words, everyone in the same area pays the same price. I always take exception to a policy that would tell a business how to develop it's policies. Quote: -other pricing factors can be figured in, but only by approval of (state?) legislature. in other words, you can penalize people for age or smoking, but only in ways approved by the government. As i see it, this would be a decent compromise between providing for the needs of all americans and allowing for freedom of choice and not creating much additional tax burden. Again if a private company wants to offer a service there's really no need for these regulations, the solution I'd like to see is something that gets to the heart of the issue. What is driving medical costs up? With all the technology, with all the people in schools, with all the nurses, etc. Why are costs so high? After we address that I think the question of universal healthcare will wane as people will see it's not needed if costs are continually lowering as they should be with the kind of technological progress we've made in 10-20 years. ---- sig ---- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.03.27 18:46:00 - [146] Originally by: Rialtor Again if a private company wants to offer a service there's really no need for these regulations, the solution I'd like to see is something that gets to the heart of the issue. What is driving medical costs up? ... Why are costs so high? Insurance. The medical service provision companies too, but a large part of it is insurance. Walking into an emergency room instantly makes you a thousand dollars lighter not because that is the cost price, but because the bid price is set by risk arbitrage. In the US healthcare market, an individual whose ability to pay is based on the Matlab games of a mathematics Ph.D will outbid an own cash bidder every time, and likely by an order of magnitude. Naturally the highest bidder sets the price - the ask just shoots up in response to proven ability to pay. No-one but the very wealthy can compete against a bidder with a multi-billion-dollar pot and risk management models. A taxpayer-funded national healthcare system moderates this discrepancy by introducing a competitor that lowers the market price back down to somewhere near cost price. It is then not economically viable for the private complex to price their services ten times higher, but they can justifiably charge perhaps twice as much on the grounds of zero waiting time. Thus in Europe we have a thriving private healthcare sector working in parallel with the state counterpart. This model is arguably closer to a free market than the US model, in which the price and cost are separated by a black box trading machine. EVE CCG Trinity Booster
das licht TRI-MI-LI	Posted - 2008.03.27 19:00:00 - [147] Edited by: das licht on 27/03/2008 18:59:57 I canceled me health insurance few days ago. I feel better now.
Rialtor Yarrrateers	Posted - 2008.03.27 19:45:00 - [148] Edited by: Rialtor on 27/03/2008 19:48:14 Originally by: Cmdr Sy Originally by: Rialtor Again if a private company wants to offer a service there's really no need for these regulations, the solution I'd like to see is something that gets to the heart of the issue. What is driving medical costs up? ... Why are costs so high? Insurance. The medical service provision companies too, but a large part of it is insurance. Walking into an emergency room instantly makes you a thousand dollars lighter not because that is the cost price, but because the bid price is set by risk arbitrage. In the US healthcare market, an individual whose ability to pay is based on the Matlab games of a mathematics Ph.D will outbid an own cash bidder every time, and likely by an order of magnitude. Naturally the highest bidder sets the price - the ask just shoots up in response to proven ability to pay. No-one but the very wealthy can compete against a bidder with a multi-billion-dollar pot and risk management models. A taxpayer-funded national healthcare system moderates this discrepancy by introducing a competitor that lowers the market price back down to somewhere near cost price. It is then not economically viable for the private complex to price their services ten times higher, but they can justifiably charge perhaps twice as much on the grounds of zero waiting time. Thus in Europe we have a thriving private healthcare sector working in parallel with the state counterpart. This model is arguably closer to a free market than the US model, in which the price and cost are separated by a black box trading machine. I don't know that this tells the story. While there is alot of overhead between hospitals and insurance companies, it is not the sole issue. But if costs were lowered I feel insurance companies would be more fortcoming. Take car insurance for example. So what drives the cost up? Well what controls costs? Supply and Demand. So prices can only decrease if the supply goes up, and/or the demand goes down. The latter being unlikely since we will have a string of baby boomers retiring as our average age moves up healthcare costs will increase. So the only thing we can realistically do to decrease cost is to increase supply. More Hospitals, Doctors, Nurses, Supplies, etc. For example medical supplies cost 3x more in the US than other countries. Operational costs are higher. But why are these costs so high and the supply so low in the 1st place? Government Restrictions, the government passes rather arbitary regulations on the licensing of doctors, medical schools, hospitals, and prescription drugs. If these restrictions were to be lessened, or removed entirely entrepeneurs and individuals would enter the market and boost the supply. So when people earlier called the US system an olgigarchy they were right, but government interference made it that way. There's no real reason that the healthcare industry can't be provided like any other industry. There's no need for artifical restrictions. If someone creates a hospital and it sucks people aren't going to go there. Conversely, if I don't want to pay starbucks hospital prices, I can go to the 7/11 hospital. It opens up competition and the market cannot work without competition. If prices were to lower insurance companies wouldn't need to 'scheme' to stay in business. But you have regulations causing an artificial market, which leads to artificially high costs. IMO, the solution to a government problem is never more government. This to me is what happens when a federal government goes and puts it's hands where it doesn't belong. ---- sig ---- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Fenderson Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.03.27 20:00:00 - [149] Originally by: Rialtor But Insurance is a risk reward business, you're asking the business to perform a bad business practice. yes, that is exactly what i am asking. this "business practice" as you put it is discrimination, plain and simple. why should we allow any company to discriminate based on genetic and health factors? if they cant be profitable without engaging in discrimination, then they should leave it to the gov't. profit margins are never, ever a valid reason to engage in discrimination in the american legal system. Quote: I always take exception to a policy that would tell a business how to develop it's policies. would you take exception to the gov't saying that a store must serve anyone who walks in, even if they are black (or asian, or latino or whatever)? we are talking about basic issues of discrimination here. that is one area where the gov't absolutely should be dictating policy. Quote: Again if a private company wants to offer a service there's really no need for these regulations, the solution I'd like to see is something that gets to the heart of the issue. What is driving medical costs up? With all the technology, with all the people in schools, with all the nurses, etc. Why are costs so high? After we address that I think the question of universal healthcare will wane as people will see it's not needed if costs are continually lowering as they should be with the kind of technological progress we've made in 10-20 years. i agree that we need to be looking in to the heart of why healthcare is so expensive, but as long as healthcare coverage is totally determined by the private sector, they will always seek to exclude people from coverage for pre-existing health and genetic conditions. that is why these laws are necessary. it is simply unacceptable for us to have a system where people who really need healthcare don't get it because it would hurt and insurance company's profit margin. DO YOU PLAY POKER???? Join ingame channels "DOA Poker" and "Eve Online Hold'em"
Isiskhan Gnostic Misanthropy	Posted - 2008.03.27 20:19:00 - [150] One of my American uncles got very ill years ago, a very messy situation involving heart failure, circulation problems, something with his lungs and other things on top. He had a proper job and had health insurance provided by his employer. Well, turns out the insurance company said that while they would cover some things, they wouldn't cover other necessary and expensive procedures because of sub-clause 3424-B appendix H on his insurance contract. So the rest of the family had to pool money and pay for it out of our pockets. Had we not been there or unable to afford those costs, he would have been royally screwed. Hell, we even had to mail him periodically drugs that his insurance company wouldn't pay for, and for whatever reason were quite cheaper over here. On the other hand, had he belonged to the Spanish side of the family, he would've been taken care of by the national health care system without having to shell out an additional euro, no questions asked.

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