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Tarminic's Rule and Edict of NGE Analogies

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Tobin Shalim Vulcan Foundry	Posted - 2008.06.04 00:03:00 - [61] Originally by: Asuka Smith Star Wars: NGE was so bad. Something like 75% of the players quit the same month it came out (not even an exaggeration, that game died with NGE) i can attest to this. i was one of those people that quit, amongst my entire guild at the time. then i found Eve, and life has been good. ----- Originally by: Haakkon I feel a great deal of patriotism at being a part of Goonswarm. We've accomplished great things... we're just mainly jerks about it
Oakrayven Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.06.04 00:38:00 - [62] an expansion so bad they have spent the past couple of years trying to bring back the pre NGE system, includeing Creature handlers (oops its Beast masters or whatever it is they are calling it now) *** ** Trust Aura. Aura is Your Friend. If your too paranoid to play EVE. . . Then your not paranoid ENOUGH to play EVE
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2008.06.04 01:42:00 - [63] Yeah...I'm glad that I never played SWG. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Brennan VanRijn	Posted - 2008.06.04 02:57:00 - [64] Originally by: Atomos Darksun Seldon Crisis! It's a Seldon Crisis I tell you, SELDON CRISIS!!!!! Bless you. Here I was in causal-surf mood, chin propped up in cupped hand and my mind in a mostly vacant state of "meh", and you go and make my evening. Not to mention almost short my keyboard in spitted out beer from the laughter. Agreed! Eventually and inevitably, with all the patches and the nerfs and forum whoring, all will be lost. We must take ourselves away to the most remote and worthless nullsec system in New Eden and bid our time in secret. The carebears will drown in wealth and tears, the Alliances will blob-fest themselves past the event horizon of lag and disappear forever (save for the occasional Hawking emission burst of E-Peen Radiation), and then, when all of faint and far-off space is cold and empty save for the occasional whine of the last grievers searching in vain for targets, then... our time will come at last. P.S: In case JihadSwarm should find us and gank us during the Fall, perhaps it might be wise to found a second, secret society to act as an invisible hand of guidance. I propose a purloined letter spot in plain sight, such as the ruins of Jita 4-4 after the Market Crash: They'd never think of looking there!
Jakke Logan F Off And Die	Posted - 2008.06.04 13:45:00 - [65] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Jakke Logan You have to admit that CCP is doing an NGE'ish thing with this expansion, by basically not listening to ANYONE and ramming it down our throats. This plus the TV advertising definitely smells of "we want a target audience" thinking which is what went into the NGE. Ehm... except that it's purely optional. It won't end up this way. Once the expansion flops, the Devs will put ALL their efforts into making people participate, even if they have to make it involuntary. Just my opinion, based on past experiences with Devs hellbent on justifying the time they spent on something the players don't like. In SWG, for example, they spent all their post-NGE efforts on PVP. When people quit PVP'ing because the static area caused your client to freeze with 30 people in them, they came up with "game best" stuff that forced you to GO to that area to get, even if you didn't want to pvp. I foresee CCP doing something like that, putting a loot drop into FW "missions" that is required to build something desirable. So, you will have people in FW not because they want to be, but to "grind" those item drops.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2008.06.04 13:52:00 - [66] Edited by: Tarminic on 04/06/2008 13:53:54 Originally by: Jakke Logan Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Jakke Logan You have to admit that CCP is doing an NGE'ish thing with this expansion, by basically not listening to ANYONE and ramming it down our throats. This plus the TV advertising definitely smells of "we want a target audience" thinking which is what went into the NGE. Ehm... except that it's purely optional. It won't end up this way. Once the expansion flops, the Devs will put ALL their efforts into making people participate, even if they have to make it involuntary. Just my opinion, based on past experiences with Devs hellbent on justifying the time they spent on something the players don't like. In SWG, for example, they spent all their post-NGE efforts on PVP. When people quit PVP'ing because the static area caused your client to freeze with 30 people in them, they came up with "game best" stuff that forced you to GO to that area to get, even if you didn't want to pvp. I foresee CCP doing something like that, putting a loot drop into FW "missions" that is required to build something desirable. So, you will have people in FW not because they want to be, but to "grind" those item drops. Care to back that up with a bet? Also, you're still not forced to go anywhere and participate in FW. How is this different from getting officer gear from officers, or faction gear? Arguably anything that isn't available in high-sec "forces" players to go there to obtain it without purchasing it on the market. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Jakke Logan F Off And Die	Posted - 2008.06.04 13:59:00 - [67] Originally by: Tarminic Yeah...I'm glad that I never played SWG. Yep. I wish I'd never played it. Back in the beginning (Pre-CU) it was the best game I ever played. The CU wasn't as good, but it was still great. The NGE ruined everything. It was like being suckered in and sold a bait and switch. It's unfortunate that the law hasn't yet caught up with unethical and fradulent business practice in MMO publishing, because John Smedley and his cohorts should have done some quality time in a "pound me in the ass" prison over the NGE. EVE has been the first game since Pre-NGE Star Wars Galaxies that I can say I truly love. I note that EVE's subs really began rising after the CU and REALLY took off after the NGE, so I'd imagine a lot of fellow "I want skills not levels" players came over here. This is why crap like this half-arsed faction warfare scheme **** me off, because I've seen this sort of thing before. I don't want EVE to suffer the same fate as SWG, as it's the ONLY game out there that isn't a WOW clone to one degree or another. Unfortunately, as EVE grows, CCP will become more and more tempted to "mainstream" it to get still more subs.
Shevar A.W.M	Posted - 2008.06.04 13:59:00 - [68] Originally by: Tarminic Edited by: Tarminic on 25/03/2008 21:05:03 Edited by: Tarminic on 25/03/2008 19:56:45 In light the recent patch rabblage that have been taking place on the forums, I have noticed a trend that paralells the oft-quoted Godwin's Rule of ** Analogies, better known as Godwin's Law. I have deemed formal name of this trend (as previously it has not been named to my knowledge): TARMINIC'S RULE OF NGE ANALOGIES** As any discussion of any single EVE Online patch grows longer, the probability that someone will compare it to the Star Wars: Galaxies NGE approaches one hundred percent. What does this mean to anyone? Well, nothing at all. But keep reading. In order to ensure that any comparisons made to the NGE are more than inflammatory statements relying on a logical fallacy, I have devised the following: TARMINIC'S EDICT OF NGE ANALOGIES Any argument comparing a particular patch to the Star Wars Galaxies: New Gaming Enhancements in the context of how said patch will affect the overall quality of EVE must provide factual evidence to back up their claim. Such factual evidence must include, but is not limited to: 1. Maximum concurrent user counts no earlier than one week before the patch 2. Maximum concurrent user counts no later than one month after the patch 3. A trend indicating a 15% or greater reduction that cannot be reasonably equated to other un-related events such as the beginning of the school year or spring break Any claim that does not comply with the above will not be given credibility, and the proponent of said claim may be deemed a "troll" and as such will remain unfed. "Troll" status may removed if the claims are removed or altered in such a way that they provide the above-mentioned evidence. Thankyou for your time, that is all. Man you must have been a big fan of nazi moderation back in the NGE time of Starwars Galaxies. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2008.06.04 14:04:00 - [69] Originally by: Shevar Man you must have been a big fan of nazi moderation back in the NGE time of Starwars Galaxies. Never played it, but I imagine it would have annoyed the hell out of me. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Blane Xero The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2008.06.04 14:42:00 - [70] I hereby officially sign this thread in the name of the emperor. Which right now is a fight between Chribba, Tarminic and Hardin

Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.06.04 15:56:00 - [71] Originally by: Jakke Logan Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Jakke Logan You have to admit that CCP is doing an NGE'ish thing with this expansion, by basically not listening to ANYONE and ramming it down our throats. This plus the TV advertising definitely smells of "we want a target audience" thinking which is what went into the NGE. Ehm... except that it's purely optional. It won't end up this way. Once the expansion flops, the Devs will put ALL their efforts into making people participate, even if they have to make it involuntary. Just my opinion, based on past experiences with Devs hellbent on justifying the time they spent on something the players don't like. In SWG, for example, they spent all their post-NGE efforts on PVP. When people quit PVP'ing because the static area caused your client to freeze with 30 people in them, they came up with "game best" stuff that forced you to GO to that area to get, even if you didn't want to pvp. I foresee CCP doing something like that, putting a loot drop into FW "missions" that is required to build something desirable. So, you will have people in FW not because they want to be, but to "grind" those item drops. I think the tinfoil lining of your helmet has a few rips. PS you made it at least double-layer, right? Shiney side facing inwards on both layers? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Sharra Savente Domini Umbrus Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.06.04 16:35:00 - [72] Edited by: Sharra Savente on 04/06/2008 16:35:28 In my day, we used tinfoil to IMPROVE reception:) It was also my job to stand next to the rabbit ears and adjust as necessary, and change channels for my parents. My son doesn't understand how easy he has it:P NGE, oh god, don't get me started. cries I went back for a free 14 days. Spies can 1 hit kill and recloak before being attacked back. No item decay = busted crafting. Skills that improve resource quality, so any resource over 962 is perfect. Looted items better than most crafted goods. Jedi is the class you take if you want to be a beastmaster:) You can only be a good beastmaster if you have millions upon millions of credits. However, since vet rewards continue to accrue even on closed accounts, I sold all mine for hundreds of millions. They only had one housing cleanup, so most my housing was still there, condemned. Ghost housing everywhere. edit added spacing English doesn't borrow from other languages; it follows other languages down dark alleys, coshes 'em, then rummages in their pockets for loose bits of grammar.
Enkidu Uruksen Wakizashi Renaissance	Posted - 2008.06.04 22:02:00 - [73] So if we can't refer to an egregiously misconceived patch (such as nerfing the Myrmidon into oblivion, for example) by analogy with NGE, does that mean we're reduced to saying CCP is jumping the shark, or nuking the fridge?
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2008.06.04 22:09:00 - [74] Originally by: Enkidu Uruksen So if we can't refer to an egregiously misconceived patch (such as nerfing the Myrmidon into oblivion, for example) by analogy with NGE, does that mean we're reduced to saying CCP is jumping the shark, or nuking the fridge? Well you can make the comparison, but be prepared to back it up or face the wrath of a legal-sounding post supported by a prolific forum poster. Seriously though - CCP does dumb stuff sometimes, but there have been no screwups in MMO history worse than the NGE (not that I can recall) and I don't think CCP will ever do something that insane. Just because a specific ship, an entire class of ships, hell, an entire race have been nerfed into the ground it would not be as bad as NGE. The only thing that would be as bad as NGE would be something that costs CCP 75% of their subscribers in the first week. So continuously bringing it up to describe a patch feature you don't like is...well...idiotic. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Jakke Logan F Off And Die	Posted - 2008.06.04 23:43:00 - [75] Originally by: Enkidu Uruksen So if we can't refer to an egregiously misconceived patch (such as nerfing the Myrmidon into oblivion, for example) by analogy with NGE, does that mean we're reduced to saying CCP is jumping the shark, or nuking the fridge? Empyrean Age could be the "jump the shark" expansion for EVE, yes.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2008.06.05 14:34:00 - [76] Originally by: Jakke Logan Originally by: Enkidu Uruksen So if we can't refer to an egregiously misconceived patch (such as nerfing the Myrmidon into oblivion, for example) by analogy with NGE, does that mean we're reduced to saying CCP is jumping the shark, or nuking the fridge? Empyrean Age could be the "jump the shark" expansion for EVE, yes. Much less eye-rollingly bad than comparing it to NGE. I'll accept that compromise. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Alz Shado Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.06.05 14:39:00 - [77] Originally by: Jakke Logan Originally by: Enkidu Uruksen So if we can't refer to an egregiously misconceived patch (such as nerfing the Myrmidon into oblivion, for example) by analogy with NGE, does that mean we're reduced to saying CCP is jumping the shark, or nuking the fridge? Empyrean Age could be the "jump the shark" expansion for EVE, yes. Actually, the worst case scenario for the Empyrean Age launch: 95% of Eve wakes up, rubs its eyes, sees the same game that they had the day before, and goes "Meh." Big waste of hype, IMHO. //// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad) "Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand
Rhatar Khurin The PeacekeeperZ Phobos Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.05 14:46:00 - [78] I do feel that these factional warfare expansions will make EVE more iconic indeed. Hmm, how about removing mining and trading and just make everyone pirates or navy fleet pilots? Because obviously no-one wants to be just boring old Owen Lars when they could be Luke Skywalker or Darth Vader! _ EVE RELATED CONTENT
Rhak Amharr Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.06.05 15:00:00 - [79] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Asuka Smith ur mom has no medoclorians hahahahaah tarminic your mom Your mom didn't have any medoclorians until I put some in her. While trying to find out what "medoclorians" means, I discovered that this thread is the first search result on google when searching for "medoclorians". Seems I don't really wanna know then. :)
Jakke Logan F Off And Die	Posted - 2008.06.05 15:03:00 - [80] Originally by: Rhatar Khurin I do feel that these factional warfare expansions will make EVE more iconic indeed. Hmm, how about removing mining and trading and just make everyone pirates or navy fleet pilots? Because obviously no-one wants to be just boring old Owen Lars when they could be Luke Skywalker or Darth Vader! Why would you want to fight over space you owned and stuff you built, or even belong to a corporation or alliance made by other players when you can belong to the NPC militia, fight for NPC commanders and over NPC space? That's sort of NGE'ish isn't it?

Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2008.06.05 15:07:00 - [81] Originally by: Jakke Logan Originally by: Rhatar Khurin I do feel that these factional warfare expansions will make EVE more iconic indeed. Hmm, how about removing mining and trading and just make everyone pirates or navy fleet pilots? Because obviously no-one wants to be just boring old Owen Lars when they could be Luke Skywalker or Darth Vader! Why would you want to fight over space you owned and stuff you built, or even belong to a corporation or alliance made by other players when you can belong to the NPC militia, fight for NPC commanders and over NPC space? That's sort of NGE'ish isn't it? Okay...sure. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Rhatar Khurin The PeacekeeperZ Phobos Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.05 15:16:00 - [82] btw, i was being sarcastic with my post. and merely relaying what SOE said the reasons behind the change in play styles if no-one guessed lol. _ EVE RELATED CONTENT
Pirokobo Orion Academy THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2008.06.05 16:35:00 - [83] Edited by: Pirokobo on 05/06/2008 16:35:25 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Fink Angel I think this might hinge on me understanding the acronym "NGE". Check the Star Wars Galaxies: NGE link. The NGE TLA has two meanings and the SOE / SWG one is not the most common. More people are going to associate NGE with Neon Genesis Evangelion then New Game Enhancements. Regarding SWG... some of us knew from the very onset that SWG would suck outright because it wasn't done by BioWare using lessons learned from KotOR. That it eventually did suck, thus, came as no surprise.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2008.06.05 19:50:00 - [84] Originally by: Pirokobo Edited by: Pirokobo on 05/06/2008 16:35:25 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Fink Angel I think this might hinge on me understanding the acronym "NGE". Check the Star Wars Galaxies: NGE link. The NGE TLA has two meanings and the SOE / SWG one is not the most common. More people are going to associate NGE with Neon Genesis Evangelion then New Game Enhancements. Regarding SWG... some of us knew from the very onset that SWG would suck outright because it wasn't done by BioWare using lessons learned from KotOR. That it eventually did suck, thus, came as no surprise. Yeah, I would have renamed it except that it would then be: "Tarminic's Rule and Edict of Star Wars: New Game Ehancements Analogies" Which is far too long a title for my taste. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
perix Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2008.06.06 12:16:00 - [85] Originally by: Alz Shado Originally by: Jakke Logan Originally by: Enkidu Uruksen So if we can't refer to an egregiously misconceived patch (such as nerfing the Myrmidon into oblivion, for example) by analogy with NGE, does that mean we're reduced to saying CCP is jumping the shark, or nuking the fridge? Empyrean Age could be the "jump the shark" expansion for EVE, yes. Actually, the worst case scenario for the Empyrean Age launch: 95% of Eve wakes up, rubs its eyes, sees the same game that they had the day before, and goes "Meh." Big waste of hype, IMHO. If I'm going to bet I would put my money on this.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2008.06.06 13:26:00 - [86] Originally by: perix If I'm going to bet I would put my money on this. That's kind of my suspicion too. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Navigator Six Domination.	Posted - 2008.07.25 15:14:00 - [87] Originally by: Brennan VanRijn Originally by: Atomos Darksun Seldon Crisis! It's a Seldon Crisis I tell you, SELDON CRISIS!!!!! Bless you. Here I was in causal-surf mood, chin propped up in cupped hand and my mind in a mostly vacant state of "meh", and you go and make my evening. Not to mention almost short my keyboard in spitted out beer from the laughter. Agreed! Eventually and inevitably, with all the patches and the nerfs and forum whoring, all will be lost. We must take ourselves away to the most remote and worthless nullsec system in New Eden and bid our time in secret. The carebears will drown in wealth and tears, the Alliances will blob-fest themselves past the event horizon of lag and disappear forever (save for the occasional Hawking emission burst of E-Peen Radiation), and then, when all of faint and far-off space is cold and empty save for the occasional whine of the last grievers searching in vain for targets, then... our time will come at last. P.S: In case JihadSwarm should find us and gank us during the Fall, perhaps it might be wise to found a second, secret society to act as an invisible hand of guidance. I propose a purloined letter spot in plain sight, such as the ruins of Jita 4-4 after the Market Crash: They'd never think of looking there! Resurrecting thread due to potential relevance. Also, Seldon helps those who help themselves.
P'uck	Posted - 2008.08.01 00:35:00 - [88] Originally by: Tarminic .... better known as Godwin's Law. I have deemed formal name of this trend (as previously it has not been named to my knowledge): TARMINIC'S RULE OF NGE ANALOGIES As any discussion of any single EVE Online patch grows longer, the probability that someone will compare it to the Star Wars: Galaxies NGE approaches one hundred percent. Good one!
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.01 01:14:00 - [89] So, basically, whenever someone mentions NGE without factual evidence, just say "Tarminic's law!" ;) Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.08.01 01:15:00 - [90] Originally by: Cpt Branko So, basically, whenever someone mentions NGE without factual evidence, just say "Tarminic's law!" ;) Preferably, while pointing them in this thread's direction. If they wanna back up their assertions with facts, they are free to do so. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)



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