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Where is the logic?

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Marc W2048 Fuzzi Ballz of Death Antesignani Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.25 21:55:00 - [1] Why do we continue to pay CCP every month when they have no real way to handle an in game issue? I mean they have these GM's (one of which is sure to lock this forum) to send "evemails" to. However GM's are not employed by CCP, they mearly play the same game we do. Nothing against you chaps that decided to give CCP a free means of support, I am sure most of you do a great job. However you are not the people I send the check to every month. I filed a petition back in December, it has JUST now been gotten to. It was for a tower that was being built that vanished from my installed jobs list after a patch. (http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=262535) If you all remember that was an issue for several people. Well the job vanished, I wasn't sure which acct had installed it or if I had got the tower or what, so I file a petition. 3 mths later.... a GM tells me where the job is. Guess what, that station now belongs to someone we no long have standings with. Not a problem he says he can clear the slot for me, so he does. What this means is I LOST the materials! He did not tell me that would be the case till after the fact. The issue here is had the petition been reviewed in a timely manner I would have had access to the station, completed the job, and been on my merry way. However the senior GM tells me I am outta luck, the materials are gone, can't have anything, so sorry, tough luck, and closes the petition. So tell me, where is the logic in paying for a game that the manufacturer of the game allows IN GAME PLAYERS to make judgements that effect people they are playing AGAINST? I love and enjoy this game, have put MANY hours into it like a lot of you. However the policy of allowing in game players to make judgements that effect other players needs to be gotten rid of and CCP needs to have thier OWN support system. Most every other game company has an 800 number to call and solve problems. However CCP would rather keep the money and not have to offer you real solutions to the problems at hand. I have even been part of several people losing ships in a mission area due to lag, 1 or 2 would get a GM that would give back the ship where 1 or 2 would be told, " sorry no lag reported." You can not go over a GM's head to the people you pay and get the problem resolved, if you call CCP you get a rude lady that will tell you to file a petition and hangs up on you. So what are we to do about this unfair system? Myself... I am closing all 8 of my accts. CCP can get rich off the ones that enjoy being screwed over or the ones that play it safe and never have to file a petition. I look forward to a company buying CCP out and making this game fair and fun again. Till then, I am off to something else.
Brea Lafail Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.25 21:56:00 - [2] Originally by: Marc W2048 However GM's are not employed by CCP, they mearly play the same game we do. I stopped reading there.
Sereifex Daku Intergalactic Squad Celestial Frontier	Posted - 2008.03.25 21:56:00 - [3] Cya, drama queen.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.03.25 21:57:00 - [4] 1. GMs are CCP employees 2. If you own 8 EVE accounts, you should probably spend more time outside anyway 3. lol ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.79.3 (Updated 3/24)
FuQue Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.25 21:58:00 - [5] The most LOGICAL course of action would be to ask to escalate the petition. Works all over the world... no reason why it doesn't work here, too.
Natheria Corigan Clan 86 Antesignani Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.25 21:59:00 - [6] Edited by: Natheria Corigan on 25/03/2008 21:59:16 Pointless I agree Marc. Totally pointless
Xonkra ArcadiaCorp Marines	Posted - 2008.03.25 21:59:00 - [7] i think the logic got lost somewhere between TomB and Tuxford ATTENTION DUELISTS ! MY HAIR IS ASSAULTING YOU AND MY VOICE GIVES ME SUPER STRENGTH!!!
Sereifex Daku Intergalactic Squad Celestial Frontier	Posted - 2008.03.25 22:00:00 - [8] Edited by: Sereifex Daku on 25/03/2008 22:01:40 Originally by: Natheria Corigan Edited by: Natheria Corigan on 25/03/2008 21:59:16 Pointless I agree Marc. Totally pointless Damn you and you're editing! >.< I hope I wasn't the only who saw his original message. It seemed like a response from Marc, only he used his alt by accident, so he changed it to make his alt seem like another person who supports his views. Lol.
Marc W2048 Fuzzi Ballz of Death Antesignani Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.25 22:01:00 - [9] Originally by: FuQue The most LOGICAL course of action would be to ask to escalate the petition. Works all over the world... no reason why it doesn't work here, too. That was done, after 3 weeks I was told oh well, tough luck.
Jtexasboyz Supernova Industries Antesignani Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.25 22:04:00 - [10] I agree with OP and know situation and the situation of others who also quit. You ppl just flame but one day you will have a problem and quit also. I is true that ccp really does need a customer service department(a real one). But as long as ppl keep playing and they see growth they will do nothing but close threads like this and laugh. If someone was to come out with a similar game to Eve you will see a change until then they just don't care.
Lurana Jade State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.25 22:05:00 - [11] Long story short, a patch screwed you bigtime, took 3 months for the Petition to carry out, but you still got screwed in the end. In other words, customer service sucks here ... yeah we all knew that.
Lucas Avignon Avignon Associates Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.25 22:05:00 - [12] Well to be quite honest, if you lost your stuff cause of a bug CCP were responsible for and they didn't reimburse your ingame loss, I can't blame you for canceling you accounts, I probably would too. But more importantly.... " if you call CCP you get a rude lady that will tell you to file a petition and hangs up on you." Did you really do that .... sig goes here!
Marc W2048 Fuzzi Ballz of Death Antesignani Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.25 22:08:00 - [13] Originally by: Lucas Avignon Well to be quite honest, if you lost your stuff cause of a bug CCP were responsible for and they didn't reimburse your ingame loss, I can't blame you for canceling you accounts, I probably would too. But more importantly.... " if you call CCP you get a rude lady that will tell you to file a petition and hangs up on you." Did you really do that Yes, I run my own business so calling overseas and dealing with companies is a daily issue for me. I called Iceland, got the number, called CCP's office and she won't let you talk to anyone. However they make damn sure that credit card number is valid every month!
J'Mkarr Soban Proxenetae Invicti	Posted - 2008.03.25 22:31:00 - [14] Originally by: Marc W2048 Originally by: Lucas Avignon Well to be quite honest, if you lost your stuff cause of a bug CCP were responsible for and they didn't reimburse your ingame loss, I can't blame you for canceling you accounts, I probably would too. But more importantly.... " if you call CCP you get a rude lady that will tell you to file a petition and hangs up on you." Did you really do that Yes, I run my own business so calling overseas and dealing with companies is a daily issue for me. I called Iceland, got the number, called CCP's office and she won't let you talk to anyone. However they make damn sure that credit card number is valid every month! If it got out that people could do that, I imagine the subsequent queue of calls might crash Icelands telecomms network. So don't be stupid - of course they're going to say that. ----------------------------- "Oh, we're sorry, you had the 'NakedAmarrChicks' bit flagged in your account somehow." "Wait, why was there even a flag for that to begin with?" "..."
Estel Arador AFK	Posted - 2008.03.25 22:35:00 - [15] Your entire whine is based on a faulty premise Skills Explained
Inconstant Moon Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.25 22:45:00 - [16] Originally by: Estel Arador Your entire whine is based on a faulty premise i.e. that GMs are unpaid, which explains their lack of performance. That the reality is the opposite actually adds more weight to the OP's position. If the paid GM's are not up to scratch, then we either need more, or better, GM's. It must be said, however, that quality control and user support are the most difficult things to achieve in this industry so perhaps our expectations are simply too high.
Anson Halleck Lost Eden Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2008.03.25 23:04:00 - [17] Originally by: Marc W2048 Well the job vanished, I wasn't sure which acct had installed it or if I had got the tower or what, so I file a petition. 3 mths later.... a GM tells me where the job is. Maybe you should provide better information in your petition next time. I can't imagine I would ask GM to search for item across 8 accounts. Phone contact is not effective for this kind of customer support.
Quinter Servarosius The Flying Dutchmen Antesignani Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.25 23:36:00 - [18] Originally by: Anson Halleck Maybe you should provide better information in your petition next time. I can't imagine I would ask GM to search for item across 8 accounts. uh.... dont u create the petision whit the caracter u lost the **** whit or is that a 2 simple of a tought???
Marcus TheMartin Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.03.25 23:36:00 - [19] there is no logic op WE ARE ALL IDIOTS
Seti Luban Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2008.03.25 23:43:00 - [20] if you dont enjoy it leave leave the rest of us in peace... dont play a game ...GAME you dont enjoy im happy yes something could do with changing but i adjusted like all the other 40k a day players ooooh i didnt get past the second sentence BTW
Estel Arador AFK	Posted - 2008.03.25 23:59:00 - [21] Edited by: Estel Arador on 25/03/2008 23:59:28 Originally by: Inconstant Moon That the reality is the opposite actually adds more weight to the OP's position. If the paid GM's are not up to scratch, then we either need more, or better, GM's. Though your argument that there's need of more or better GMs may have some merit, it is in no way equivalent to what the OP is arguing. The OP assumes (based on his faulty premise that GMs are volunteers) that if the GMs were paid, they would perform better. Obviously that's not true since they are paid and are performing exactly as well - or bad - as is being observed (and complained about). Skills Explained
Jtexasboyz Supernova Industries Antesignani Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.26 02:49:00 - [22] I play to pvp so I expect to lose everything. In almost 3 year I only got back only thing to a petition. What ****ed me off is when i lost a bs in the damsel mission. I got stuck on an object as I warped in and couldn't warp out even though I was not scrammed. I petitioned and was told to bad. A while later right there in the patch it stated a fix for the same problem. Yet GM told me it was nothing A bs is not that big of a deal to me but what if it was a billion dollar asset like a freighter. I'd be steamed and probably would quit for paying to get screwed. I'm not Flaming ccp and think this is the funnest game I've played and only one I have and probably will every pay for, But a real customer service for paying customers would be nice and should have always been here. We'll good luck Marc and i hope you come back to the game someday you will be missed.
Kamikaze Holli Kamikaze Fleet Elite Antesignani Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.26 03:06:00 - [23] Ok set your Keytboards to Trolling/Flaming/Being a ***** Was it just me or am i the only one who read his entire post. The main thing i spotted in there that struck me as errrrrr STUPID, Is it true that the GM's also play EVE ? If so, this should stop. As i see it they can be nice to who ever they want, when they want, and screw the rest of the players. And yes i do think they would show favoritism to who ever they want, ie their friends. That said, im still waiting for a Petition to actually help me. I Have a nice collection of computer "looking" replies that dont even seem human.
Drizit FREEDOM FIRST Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.26 05:17:00 - [24] Lol, reason #2 for remaining in Empire. Most of the Gm's have been playing since Beta and are all in 0.0 Right from the start, I've wondered where their loyalties lie. Giving someone who plays the game on a regular basis extra powers, can so easily lead to abuse of said powers. It's a well known saying - "The devil looks after his own." --
Marc W2048 Fuzzi Ballz of Death Antesignani Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.26 06:38:00 - [25] Originally by: Drizit Lol, reason #2 for remaining in Empire. Most of the Gm's have been playing since Beta and are all in 0.0 Right from the start, I've wondered where their loyalties lie. Giving someone who plays the game on a regular basis extra powers, can so easily lead to abuse of said powers. It's a well known saying - "The devil looks after his own." So in that way of thinking how about we all pay 50% of the monthly charge since we can only use 50% of the game? I am not about to sit in empire just because CCP has let people abuse a position that the person in it shouldn't be in. The reality is the games major flaw is the people that are policing it. Until CCP admits this flaw and finds a fix for it there is no way to have a fair rule in place. I have played this game for several years and it's just getting worse. The GM's that play alongside the rest of us have as much to lose or gain. My reason for posting this in the 1st place was to make a point to CCP, who I doubt even bothers to read the forums, that they need to regain control of thier game. They are losing players, many of them I have known for years in the game. At some point they will have to pay attention to someone.
Asuka Smith StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.03.26 06:48:00 - [26] Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Barlaka Thermopile Systems	Posted - 2008.03.26 07:09:00 - [27] This> Originally by: Marc W2048 I wasn't sure which acct had installed it or if I had got the tower or what, so I file a petition. (words) Myself... I am closing all 8 of my accts. And this. Originally by: Tarminic 2. If you own 8 EVE accounts, you should probably spend more time outside anyway 3. lol Qft I wonder, is there a collection of "best of petitions" floating around the CCP office? I would pay to read them, lol.
Monkayy Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.26 07:22:00 - [28] First off - The GM's are PAID employees of CCP Secondly - The GM's do play the game however the accounts they play with have absolutely no GM functions whatsoever, and all GM actions are logged and can be investigated, and are closely monitored now since that issue a year or so back. Same as the DEVS all have 'play' accounts and do play alongside us fee paying players most of them are in the big alliances and hold high ranking positions within those alliances.
Natheria Corigan Clan 86 Antesignani Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.26 22:03:00 - [29] Originally by: Sereifex Daku Edited by: Sereifex Daku on 25/03/2008 22:01:40 Originally by: Natheria Corigan Edited by: Natheria Corigan on 25/03/2008 21:59:16 Pointless I agree Marc. Totally pointless Damn you and you're editing! >.< I hope I wasn't the only who saw his original message. It seemed like a response from Marc, only he used his alt by accident, so he changed it to make his alt seem like another person who supports his views. Lol. Not alt, poor english. But agree with Marc yes.
FuQue Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.26 22:05:00 - [30] Originally by: Monkayy First off - The GM's are PAID employees of CCP Secondly - The GM's do play the game however the accounts they play with have absolutely no GM functions whatsoever, and all GM actions are logged and can be investigated, and are closely monitored now since that issue a year or so back. ...or so they tell us. I know at my job we're supposed to be 'monitored' for internet abuse - but does anyone actually DO the 'monitoring'? no.

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