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personalised ship manufacturing and design

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maralt The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.26 12:14:00 - [1] Edited by: maralt on 26/03/2008 12:16:57 I would love to see a skill tree or set for designing and manufacturing our own ships in game. Like starting with a bare hull design and assigning how much cpu and pg it has so the more pg you assign to the ship the less cpu you can give it, along with bonuses to the various ingame stats and existing bonuses. Giving us control of the way it functions like the more dmg modifier you give it the less range or tracking and visa versa. Even a option to decide how many slots we assign to high, mid and low from a limited pool instead of having to go with the way it is now. Also the bonuses to e war of web/scram range that we see on hac's or recons could be assigned withing certain limits giving us a bigger and better range to personalize and build individual ships for specific tasks. I do not know if this is a feasible idea or even possible but it sounded really cool when i first thought of it so i thought id post it and get somew feed back.
JERIC0 NailorTech Industries Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.03.26 12:20:00 - [2] Its a nice idea but I feel that it would be to complex to uphold in the game and would also bring about alot of unbalance in ships.
maralt The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.26 12:45:00 - [3] Originally by: JERIC0 Its a nice idea but I feel that it would be to complex to uphold in the game and would also bring about alot of unbalance in ships. I have no idea how difficult it would be to implement although i would think it would be quite hard, but as far as unbalancing ships is concerned one mans unbalanced is another's individuality.
Washell Olivaw Washies Corp	Posted - 2008.03.26 13:56:00 - [4] Originally by: maralt Originally by: JERIC0 one mans unbalanced is another's individuality. One mans unbalanced is flavour of the month is posted on the net is majority flies the same is absolutely no individuality at all. Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
maralt The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.26 14:08:00 - [5] Originally by: Washell Olivaw Originally by: maralt Originally by: JERIC0 one mans unbalanced is another's individuality. One mans unbalanced is flavour of the month is posted on the net is majority flies the same is absolutely no individuality at all. HUH?.
Valeri Greon School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.03.27 22:41:00 - [6] Originally by: Washell Olivaw One mans unbalanced is flavour of the month is posted on the net is majority flies the same is absolutely no individuality at all. That's one of the most obscure statements I've ever seen on the Net. And I believe it has a few grammatical errors, but all is forgiven if an explanation is given - I like to understand. As to the idea of player ship design, I wholeheartedly support this. It can be balanced - more neat stuff means actually drawing the blueprint will take much longer and the materials needed to manufacture the ship will get increasingly rare and their amount high. Of course, because we are talking of space construction and space flight, the only limits are materials, mass and thrust. Build a moon and you won't probably be able to move it at all. Planning would of course require a new skill set, and could probably be integrated into the Invention system, while the size of the planned ship would affect where it can be manufactured. Just like currently. This would also mean that the current ships would stay around as mass-produced starter vessels, probably many times cheaper than the custom jobs - but you can't beat the feeling you get from flying something you've planned yourself. It also gives more options for ingame scams, robbing and stealing for those of you who fly under the radar. Design a ship, make it deliberately faulty in some way and sell the plans - or even the ship. Then ask a colleague to bash it and the fool will buy a new one. Custom ships could also be very poorly or not at all insured, for who knows how well - or poorly - they were built or what inherent design flaws there were originally? Anything is possible.
Exyn HonouredKnights Edge Of Sanity	Posted - 2008.03.27 23:36:00 - [7] It's a great idea. I think that CCP could find some way to balance it. But what if this brought up some new generation of EVE hackers... If CCP gave you to much customization, would it be possible for players to bend things in the game? What if someone made a ship the size of a planet..... Obviously CCP would've never intended for something like that to happen. The players are always going to do something unthinkable. I'm sure that wouldn't be a problem, but it's a bigger if to worry about than game balance... ------------------------------------------------- U verspil tijd vertalen tekst naar Engels van Nederlands. Translate this text.
Tarron Sarek Cadien Cybernetics	Posted - 2008.03.28 00:24:00 - [8] Well I kinda agree with Washell Olivaw. Players would most probably find out which combinations are the most efficient ones and soon we would only see those excel spreadsheet endorsed designs. The beauty of a design often lies within it's flaws and peculiarities. Players would shoot for efficiency. Therefore I find it a nice idea, but not practical. ___________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well - Please stop using the word 'nerf' Nothing spells 'incompetence' or 'don't take me serious' like those four letters
Valeri Greon	Posted - 2008.03.29 11:56:00 - [9] Tarron, I think that's why we have patches, bug reports and petitions - if something's overpowering, it's not balanced and can be patched. This would of cours lead to "WTF, you nerfed my ship, I'm quitting!" -statements at first, but then again, what doesn't? And like I indicated in a previous post, a planet-sized ship would be pretty useless - even with jump engines the mammoth wouldn't be able to move very slow if at all. And I shudder to imagine the fuel consumption of such a ship... -- Anything is possible.
Kransthow AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.03.29 12:19:00 - [10] Originally by: Valeri Greon a planet-sized ship would be pretty useless 1 word, Ramming
Daggaroth Demio's Corporation Safe And Fun Environment	Posted - 2008.03.29 16:24:00 - [11] i personally would love to have Raven stats on a Hyperion hull. i love my raven but it looks like a car crash but my hyperion sucks in combat ( because of my lack of gallente based combat skills) but is the most beautiful ship i own. needs some fine tuneing though to prevent over powered ships but i like this idea /signed --------------------------------------------------
Arvald	Posted - 2008.03.29 19:58:00 - [12] if you customize a ship it gets a penalty to its original bonuses, say if you customize a raven instead of getting a 10% bonus you get maby a 7.5% --------------------------------------------- Violets are blue roses are red were coming aboard prepare to eat lead
Daggaroth	Posted - 2008.03.29 21:24:00 - [13] i just want to have a missile boat with the hull of a hyperion =P ONLY reason i spent a few weeks training my gallente ship command up so i could fly a hyperion =) -------------------------------------------------- Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Valeri Greon	Posted - 2008.04.01 22:40:00 - [14] I'd just bump this, but it goes against my grain... Originally by: Kransthow 1 word, Ramming I didn't know that ramming was possible in Eve -- I have to familiarize myself with this. -- Anything is possible. Right-click is your friend.
Wren Alterana The Baros Syndicate Kissaki Republic	Posted - 2008.04.02 00:30:00 - [15] I love this idea I want a Drake with a Myrmidon hull. I seriously think that this could work, with proper planning it would open up whole new venues, and really promote even more capitalistic economies within the game world.
Jamonsa	Posted - 2008.04.02 02:26:00 - [16] Originally by: Washell Olivaw Originally by: maralt Originally by: JERIC0 one mans unbalanced is another's individuality. One mans unbalanced is flavour of the month is posted on the net is majority flies the same is absolutely no individuality at all. I think he means that someone would make an uber ship that would OMFGPWN and everyone would make it and use it. There goes the individuality. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Valeri Greon School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.03 19:35:00 - [17] I rather think that in a game as diverse as Eve there is no one ship design that would be "the ultimate design" for all tasks -- or for all players. -- Anything is possible. Right-click is your friend.
Tim Dust The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.03 19:40:00 - [18] Besides, some ship designs would be more expensive than others. CCP could do some tweaking by making some ships less expensive, and others more.
Moran Trayga State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.03 21:16:00 - [19] I like this. My sig says hello!
Valeri Greon	Posted - 2008.04.05 17:48:00 - [20] /bump You're not the only one. -- Anything is possible. Right-click is your friend.
Ezekiel Sulastin	Posted - 2008.04.05 19:21:00 - [21] Originally by: Valeri Greon I rather think that in a game as diverse as Eve there is no one ship design that would be "the ultimate design" for all tasks -- or for all players. No, but there are optimal ships for whatever roles people want, and the min/maxing tendency of most Eve players will attract them to exactly that setup. Case in point: Ravens and Drakes ;) ---- WTB Armor Nerf Hardener II, 10^100 isk OBO
Tim Dust The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.05 20:03:00 - [22] Not everybody can afford the best, though, and not everybody wants to risk flying an expensive ship.
Valeri Greon School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.08 12:09:00 - [23] Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin No, but there are optimal ships for whatever roles people want, and the min/maxing tendency of most Eve players will attract them to exactly that setup. Case in point: Ravens and Drakes ;) So what you're saying that this already happens in the game - so why should it worry us if it happened with even more expensive and hard-to-get ships? -- Anything is possible. Right-click is your friend.
Irn Bruce Rentboyz	Posted - 2008.04.08 13:22:00 - [24] But you already can customise your ships. What is ship fitting if not taking a hull and customising it? The way the game works, you can fit pretty much any hull to do pretty much any job, just some are better at particular jobs than others. What you're talking about doing is essentially making it so that you do any jobe equally well in any hull (OK, not quite, but whatever). What would end up happening is that everyone would fly the nicer looking ships, and just customise them to do the job they want to do. You'd have no way of gathering intel on what the enemy was fielding, because they could be using their dominix for ewar, their raven could be a blaster ship, and their osprey might be a long range sniper. That would turn a lot of battles into pot luck, where you'd win if you happened to get lucky and your ships were customised in the right way to counter the random selection yor opponents had. It takes a lot of the tactical aspect of combat away.
Thebro Nobrunder Schrodinger's Renegades	Posted - 2008.04.08 15:02:00 - [25] I'd love to see the ability to created named items with slightly modified stats. Player Industries 250mm railgun with slightly different stats.
Tim Dust The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.08 15:33:00 - [26] Not knowing how to prepare for the enemy would be good, not bad. Fleet commanders would constantly be trying to outguess the enemy, instead of knowing exactly what is needed to get the job done.
Thebro Nobrunder Schrodinger's Renegades	Posted - 2008.04.08 15:42:00 - [27] Perhaps there could be a way to pay for ship modifications. For instance changing a turret to a missile bay. The real problem with this would be overpowering certain ships, then again if you pay for it what's the problem? It should be very expensive for this sort of modification I would believe. some significant fraction of the cost of the ship. question: should you be able to pay to change a ship bonus? ie: a megathrons +7.5% tracking to +5% optimal range for instance?
grgjegb gergerg School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.08 15:48:00 - [28] Originally by: Thebro Nobrunder I'd love to see the ability to created named items with slightly modified stats. Player Industries 250mm railgun with slightly different stats. That would be cool. The problem is, space. All items are the same, packaged. Its probably to keep the item lists manageable. If you could name items, it wouldn't be a stack of a dozen tech 1 guns, you'd have a big messy stack of "bob industries gun" and "larry corp official gun". It'd get really messy, really fast, or be pointless. I'd like the ability to paint my unpacked ship though. A few predefined paint jobs, and a couple color selectors. THAT would only have 3 extra numbers per unpackaged, painted ship- paint job number, color 1, color 2. Paint goes away upon repackage. The main work for that is simply the initial art job of the overlay-reskin for ships, and adding it to each client, and 3 extra numbers per ship, which adds a small amount to system lag, BUT you could always turn everyone else's paint jobs off, right?
Tim Dust The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.08 16:03:00 - [29] Thebro: that's my attitude. Let players get what they want, but make them pay for it. Provide as much freedom as humanly possible. I think that's how ships should be balanced, too. Stop nerfing the cool ships and just increase their mineral cost, while reducing the costs for unpopular ships.
Irn Bruce Rentboyz	Posted - 2008.04.08 17:36:00 - [30] Edited by: Irn Bruce on 08/04/2008 17:38:06 Originally by: Tim Dust Not knowing how to prepare for the enemy would be good, not bad. Fleet commanders would constantly be trying to outguess the enemy, instead of knowing exactly what is needed to get the job done. I disagree. Having ships that can be customised to suit any role means even in a battle you can never be sure what ships is capable of doing what, until it starts doing it. If you have your cov ops scout one system ahead of you (which is called having good intel by the way) to tell you in advance the make up of an enemy fleet, you can then come up with a good strategy to counter it. By being totally unable to do this you remove the whole aspect of intel from the game. Having to constantly second guess each other brings a huge aspect of luck into who wins a battle. If you can't win a fight by outthinking your opponent and being better prepared, then you're not going to fight them unless you're sure you can win, so people will just blob with masses of DPS ships and hope that they get lucky.
Valeri Greon Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.11 21:12:00 - [31] sigh Or, you know, there could be this cool module called Ship Scanner or something like that. It would tell you pretty much how the ship is fitted despite its outward appearance. In my opinion, this is how it should be anyways - I doubt that outlaws in real life would much care for going "standard" when they could make their ships do nasty surprises - like fake hulls (that'd be cool...). Empty battlecruiser shell around my speed-rigged frigate -- and when the enemy has prepared for slow high-tank/dps ships, I discard the battlecruiser hull and go buzz around his ship and sting it to death. -- Anything is possible. Right-click is your friend.
Eddy Nately	Posted - 2008.04.15 04:06:00 - [32] Bump and /signed. The more freedom the better. If people want to make uber ships, let them pay for it in time and resources. The alternative is just to fork over a ton of ISK anyway.
Rook Highwind Miners-R-us	Posted - 2008.04.15 04:36:00 - [33] I agree that there should be some greater ability for stat manipulation in invention. I do not agree that this should extend to changing hull types, even to a ship of the same class. Certain stat changes might give a Megathron many of the current advantages of a Raven, but simply switching hulls, especially to unrelated ship classes, is madness. A great deal of risk assessment when deciding to engage an enemy is done in the split second when you see the hull, because if you fight a lot, you'll know at least what fit a given hull is likely to have (since hulls are currently unique to stat sets), and whether you can beat it. Even allowing a little stat changing could cause a huge variation in viable fits for a given hull, so half that ability for assessment is already out the window. I'd like to see more personalised invention introduced, but please, let's keep things in the realms of possibility? Blasphemy, even. Don't you dare. ______________________________________
Eddy Nately	Posted - 2008.04.15 04:44:00 - [34] Originally by: Rook Highwind *Blasphemy, even. Don't you dare. This is Caketown! But this is a good observation. Limit creation/customization to weapons and the like. Otherwise allow for scanners that reveal how a ship is fitted. No use formulating strategies if you have no idea what you're up against.
Chillshock	Posted - 2008.04.15 13:07:00 - [35] Interesting Idea... Let me propose something. Fist: Introduce new Items that define the Look of the ship: Amarr Frigate Podbay Amarr Frigate Central Hull Amarr Frigate Wing Amarr Frigate Reactor Unit ... Introduce new "Modul-Blueprints" to define Slot Layout: Module created light amarrian Frigate Module created medium amarrian Frigate Module created heavy amarrian Frigate Module creaeed light amarrian Cruiser ... Introduce new Skills to assemble and reconfigure the Ships Amarr Frigate Hull Construction Amarr Frigate Hull Reconfiguration Amarr Cruiser Hull Construction ... Introduce a new "Modulization Bay" available only on some Stations (POS only? Or maybe just on some Low-Sec-Bases) where those Modules can be assembled into Ships of a given Blueprint. Advantages: New Products. New Supply-Lines. New Demand. New Looks. Layouts under CCP Control. Races still maintain their own "Characteristic Look and Feel" (Yes sry no Hyperion Missileboat)
Valeri Greon Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:16:00 - [36] I still don't get how the ability to fool your opponent would be a bad thing -- especially if it's possible to discover this by utilizing right modules/skills. Enough of that. Combo-customizing as presented by the previous poster would be a step in the right direction - but a small one. What I'm after is more like the custom spell system or alchemy of Morrowind/Oblivion... Different prices for different things - and if you want something truly fantastic, the price and the drawbacks are going to be as fantastic... But yes, all this would indeed require a new set of skills and probably new manufacturing/design/invention/whatever thingys for the stations. At least that's how I'm imagining the glory in my head. My own path to ultimate ship designing land would be lengthy -- I've been an EVE player for less than a month. -- Anything is possible. Right-click is your friend.

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