Don't understand OP. You claim you want a sandbox but in the same paragraph demand that CCP put in rules to prevent one side from initiating their own maneuvers to out maneuver you. CCP removed rules and therefore the sandbox was made even less restrictive and people used the existing mechanics to their advantage, just like you tired to use them to likely target weak/defenseless players. Don't get mad that the industrialist now have a valid counter to your aggression that isn't just going to NPC corps. Isn't that what you all preach, everything has a counter? I seem to recall soo many post on how supercaps didn't have any counters, why cry about this new counter to the aggression move?

I know right! Its bad enough that they force us to play station games during highsec wars so we have no risks to our own ships and be leet pvpers!!! /sarcasm

Hulkageddon awaits.

You know there's an ice interdiction on. All the ice miners have fled caldari space and are concentrated in other areas...mostly gallente space from what I've seen. You've got fish in a barrel, go shoot some.

How is war dec avoiding not an exploit ?

--worthless blather snipped--

This is a rant post and i wont be back to check on it so trolls feel free to put your "u mad?" etc in, the fact is im right and you fu***** know it.
Good day to you all.
Peace out.

Let's take a more carebear-ish perspective on it, maybe CCP will hear that better.

Wardecs aren't free. You might argue that they're cheap, but at the alliance level they can be costly. CCP has given corporations the ability to not only shed a wardec, but arbitrarily rob the aggressor of their hard-earned isk. it's not refunded, it's not prorated, their money is simply gone and they have no control over that. For a mercenary alliance, this can amount to billions of lost isk and the absolute destruction of their business model.

CCP has spent the past year propping up those who can't be bothered to learn game mechanics in order to protect themselves, then they let them cost others billions while completely avoiding wars, and now they have apparently removed C1 wormhole access from high sec. It's like they're watching how I play the game and removing anything I might actually consider fun.

For once im inclined to agree with a rant, war dec avoidance and war dec removal alliances are really really stupid.

You do know that the dec shield alliance you speak of was created to highlight the fact that CCP broke hisec wars

everyone knew that it needed a change, but we were all expecting a new system to take its place when they removed it, not a simple relaxation of the rules to 'anything goes - we dont have the manpower to police you guys'

Last I checked you had to be in a station to join/leave a corp, so how could these corp-hopping "exploits" you discuss possibly work?

war dec avoidance and war dec removal alliances are really really stupid.

and now they have apparently removed C1 wormhole access from high sec.

U mad bro? LOL

Stupid puns aside, ccp knows war decs have issues. There are additional exploits, such as people dropping corp, lying in system, then joining corp to spring a trap. Basically, this is an exploit that us often used by the agressor in the war dec. Since there are issues in both sides, ccp seems content to run neither as an exploit, reducing the petition load on the gms. This will remain as such until they can devote time and resources to properly fix the issue.

So you are stuck, deal with it. And if you don't like it... Go find another mmo that allows declaring war on people.

As an alternative, try faction warfare. Still a bit glitches, but it might work.

For once im inclined to agree with a rant, war dec avoidance and war dec removal alliances are really really stupid.

Last I checked you had to be in a station to join/leave a corp, so how could these corp-hopping "exploits" you discuss possibly work?

Dock up, apply to join, undock, go around looking for a juicy wartarget. When you find one, accept the character into the corp and gank.

You only have to be docked to apply.

Is it wrong that I get wood when you rant??

Gankers tears are the sweetest.

Is it wrong that I get wood when you rant??

Gankers tears are the sweetest.

This will get you in big trouble and possibly a short ban. It has been stated again and again by GM and Devs that this is a bannable exploit and has not changed under the loosening of the corp war deck rules. Do this expect someone to file a petition on you straight away and you'd deserve the ban.

As long as all the Gankers and wardeccers have rep, trading and mining alts in NPC corps your tears are invalid.

Especially regarding the reppers in NPC corps. Just shows how much war deccers in high sec are looking for easy kills.

I agree with your post, but this statement was definitely NOT true. Just sayin'.

How is war dec avoiding not an exploit ?

Money. It is all to do with new player retention. CCP believe that veterans will never unsub.

Money. It is all to do with new player retention. CCP believe that veterans will never unsub.

Or they realize that at some point veterans are going to unsub thus needing new players to fill the gaps. If there is a new pilot and he cant join a corp without 50mil sp toons shooting at him does he keep playing? Probably not.

If it's not just easy kills and griefing you are looking for and actually just the small gang pvp like the OP says he is looking for. Why not make the argument that war decs be a accept/decline situation. If they decline you dont get charged the price of the dec. Thus making dec shields entirely useless, corps that can not defend themselves have a out, and you know the ones that accept are going to make a effort to fight back. Now you have all the small gang pvp you want and better more competitive pvp without the lost isk from corps using dec shields on you.

I don't think many making the exploit argument are going to like this idea though since its not competitive pvp they are actually looking for in high sec war decs.

Have players left EVE because of High Sec war decs they couldn't handle? Sure, but EVE maintained a population growth without allowing players to avoid decs like this. High Sec is safe enough as it is. No one is entitled to a player corp just by having a sub. You have to work to keep things intact. If you can't handle it, there's always the NPC corp.

By the same logic having a sub does not entitle you to provide someone with a bad gaming experience or force them to play the way you want them to. There a a ton of ways you can play EVE and they don't all involve pvp.

I know I cant say this about all corps but the large majority of high sec war dec corps dont really want pvp they just want to one shot someone so they can say "U mad bro" or something else you might expect from a 2 yo that cant form complete words yet. It really is just sad that so many out there get their rocks off by providing a unpleasant gaming experience to others.

War decs don't force people to play the way the deccer wants. There are different ways of dealing with them or avoiding them in the first place. How the deccee deals with it is still their choice.

You missed the most important part of my post: EVE has made it where it is by being the opposite of the way you seem to want it to be.

War decs don't force people to play the way the deccer wants. There are different ways of dealing with them or avoiding them in the first place. How the deccee deals with it is still their choice.

You missed the most important part of my post: EVE has made it where it is by being the opposite of the way you seem to want it to be.

So how the deccee deals with it is their choice and if they chose to use an alliance to nullify the war it is their choice yet this thread and its supporters are crying for the exact opposite to be true. You claim you aren't trying to make the targets play eve your way yet you are trying your damndest to ensure the only paths avaiable to the war target is paying you to go away or go to an npc corp. You cannot stand that there is a valid and useful way past your harassment which allows the war target to continue on enjoying eve the way they want to enjoy it.

Also by "you" I mean the OP and his supporters.

Well the entire origin of the thread is to take away one of the options the decced corp has for dodging a war. So really everything you are using to defend your stance seems to contradict what you are actually defending. By saying " How the deccee deals with it is still their choice" but being in support of limiting those choices really doesn't go with any point you are in support of. Unless by choice you mean a limited number of choices all of which I decide is acceptable for someone else to make.

Everyone always talks about they like EVE because the get to be pirates and its not policed liked other MMO's but then as soon as the defenseless come up with a way to use the system to defend themselves then its a exploit and how dare baby seals find a way not to get clubbed.

yep. Wardec is an intended mechanic, and Dec Shield is abusing other mechanics to completely disable wardecs.

Its also not fair, since alliances are unable to realistically do this.

Its a horribly abused 'feature' and its shocking that CCP approves of it

Instead of everybody complaining about it, why don't we wait and see what they have planned for Inferno?

Ideas will be realised way before then, something as simple as a 48 hour probation timer for leaving an Alliance will make all the difference.

Or am I making to much sense here?

biggest problem with wardec avoidance is that its niegh impossible to take down an undefended hisec tower. Before you could force a corp to either lose the tower or remove it voluntarily during the 24 hour period. Now you can jump around alliances and alternate stront timers for days, each time forcing the aggressors to pay higher and higher wardec fees.

Good point. For that matter, why should a war dec be required at all to attack a hisec POS? It's already protected from capitals by the ban on cyno in 0.5+. It's not like hisec POS owners are defenseless newbs -- anyone with the ISK and experience to anchor a tower should be prepared to defend it in case of attack, regardless of location.

Not everyone can log in once every 24 hours. Why abound every pos be am open Target just to satisfy your desires? Also, wouldn't this pretty much eliminate the need for small or medium poses? Everyone would have to death star up just to avoid roaming griefer gangs.

Further more, are you prepared for the price increase in all t2 mods becayse people feel they can't ruak a pos? Maybe if ccp increased the number of copying, invention, and manufacturing slots in hi sec, this would work, but for now, this is just a horrible idea from some one who's probably never spent a day being an indy toon nor realizes that a player run economy needs poses to produce materials.

It would be more fair if combat risk were attached to the most lucrative activities in high sec, like T2 production, L4 missions and incursions.

At what point in time did you decide putting more risk and high security in the same sentence did not contradict yourself? There are low sec versions of all of these things that take place where people are rewarded for their risk in doing them. Why not worry about them if adding risk to lucrative activities is what you are looking for? Or why not just make the argument we should move all of these activities to low sec since you have decided they are too lucrative for high sec?

U mad bro? LOL

Stupid puns aside, ccp knows war decs have issues. There are additional exploits, such as people dropping corp, lying in system, then joining corp to spring a trap. Basically, this is an exploit that us often used by the agressor in the war dec. Since there are issues in both sides, ccp seems content to run neither as an exploit, reducing the petition load on the gms. This will remain as such until they can devote time and resources to properly fix the issue.

So you are stuck, deal with it. And if you don't like it... Go find another mmo that allows declaring war on people.

As an alternative, try faction warfare. Still a bit glitches, but it might work.

Different risk, not more risk. I suggest PvP risk in L4's, incursions, etc. instead of war decs, not in addition to them. High sec then becomes much safer for new or very casual players, and riskier for all those ISK grinding alts in NPC corporations.

What we do is obviously an exploit

While the tears of griefers are amusing, we don't want to drive people out of the game.

We agree with you on all accounts though. The Inferno expansion coming up is solely designed to completely revamp faction warfare and wardec mechanics. We have it from the word of the chariman of the CSM, The Mittani that CCP are working on changing wardec rules to prevent what Dec Shield does.

It's like they're watching how I play the game and removing anything I might actually consider fun.

War decs don't force people to play the way the deccer wants. There are different ways of dealing with them or avoiding them in the first place. How the deccee deals with it is still their choice.

You missed the most important part of my post: EVE has made it where it is by being the opposite of the way you seem to want it to be.

0.0 has nothing to offer solo pvpers or small gangs, its great place to be if your in a decent size alliance...

WOW look at all the whiny little Btches in this thread....



WE ARE COMING FOR YOU CAREBEARS


YOU WILL NEVER BE SAFE NO MATTER WHAT CCP DOES.




HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA





Tards

I also agree with the op. +1

Carebears of eve... enjoy your shallow victory for now. Hulkageddon awaits.

I am Dec Shield. I completely agree with the original poster. What we do is obviously an exploit, and we have challenged CCP to change the rules to prevent what we've been abusing. We have contacted the CSM and pushed for change as well. Harvesting rage ingame and on the forums has been a strategic move to raise awareness of how broken the current wardec mechanics are. All of this has been part of a massive group effort by the playebase to evoke positive change in wardec mechanics in Eve.

While the tears of griefers are amusing, we don't want to drive people out of the game. We agree with you on all accounts though. The Inferno expansion coming up is solely designed to completely revamp faction warfare and wardec mechanics. We have it from the word of the chariman of the CSM, The Mittani that CCP are working on changing wardec rules to prevent what Dec Shield does.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=792435#post792435

Our collective effort to improve the game is nearly upon us. Soon we'll be able to hang up the alliance and everyone can go back to war as it was originally intended.

Just ot let you know something about Rebirth. as a corp.

We lives in empire and we do alot of war decs there. But even then, we see some very few times that corps'es are leaving the alliances we war dec or corps'es are leaving the corp for another corp we have war dec'ed. So it's not really an issue for us.

Because those we war dec are corps'es / alliances we know who will fight back. We don't go after mining corps'es as long it's not from a contractor that want's us to kill miners.

But then, we are not the grifers then in that case.

Easy solution: wardec someone that will shoot back.

Just ot let you know something about Rebirth. as a corp.

We lives in empire and we do alot of war decs there. But even then, we see some very few times that corps'es are leaving the alliances we war dec or corps'es are leaving the corp for another corp we have war dec'ed. So it's not really an issue for us.

Because those we war dec are corps'es / alliances we know who will fight back. We don't go after mining corps'es as long it's not from a contractor that want's us to kill miners.

But then, we are not the grifers then in that case.

No one cares about how inconvenienced your terrible high sec war dec corp is. All of these high sec care bears never stop complaining.

Eve was once known as a sandbox, now it seems the term sandbox is being slowly stripped from the game.

the only fix ccp could introduce is to "lock" a corp when a war is declared so ppl on that corp have to fight it.... but quite frankly that is ******** and a horrible game design, ppl that dont want to bothered have and will allways be protected by ccp, because they should. inferno wont change that.

Easy solution: wardec someone that will shoot back.

But then, that'll deny you the easy killmail, won't it. Well, can't have that, now can we?

You seem to misunderstand the reason to wardec. Hint: it's not about getting fights (and never was). People who want fights live in low-, wh-, null. You wardec for isk. Mercenary (disrupt logistic, denial of services, destroy POS), or to make isk in other fashion (fight targets who struggle to fight back, for example).

The difference now from early days is that industrialists back then, hired PvPers, had PvP wings, and/or actually fought back themselves. The game today is just filled with people who refuse to fight.. in a sandbox game where your actions are supposed to have consequences. Right, haha. I wonder what made them chose this game in the first place, it shouldn't be for them.. not to mention in most cases, these industrialists usually have isk and number advantage over the attackers, if they used it to their advantage they wouldn't have an issue with wars.

Sadly, the player-evolution, the consequences, and the roughneck industrialists are gone.
It seems today everyone is a wall street shark who want non-effort isk, compared to the gold diggers of old.

1.
Isn't EVE a game where you can do whatever you want?
Trade, mine, build, explore, shoot NPCs, PvP, etc?

If CCP wants a dedicated PvP only, they should remove everything from game, leaving 10 systems, a couple of ships, a bunch of modules and that is all... aka make it Dark Orbit or another bigpoint money grab game where 24h/day you camp a gate and shoot the hell out of everything.


2.
Not, it seems to me that most of the people complaining here are looking for easy targets that don't shoot back only to raise their kill numbers and get some killmails.

You seem to misunderstand the reason to wardec. Hint: it's not about getting fights (and never was). People who want fights live in low-, wh-, null. You wardec for isk. Mercenary (disrupt logistic, denial of services, destroy POS), or to make isk in other fashion (fight targets who struggle to fight back, for example).

Sadly, the player-evolution, the consequences, and the roughneck industrialists are gone.
It seems today everyone is a wall street shark who want non-effort isk, compared to the gold diggers of old.

And wardec'ing a carebear corp, demanding ransom for a high-sec tower with no intention of letting it stand... How is that NOT non-effort isk?!??!

You pretty much just just proved the point that those that can, do (go to null to build a life), those that can't wardec in high sec. Hahaha!!!