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Cloora
Black River Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:25:00 -
[1]
You people have no idea how to run an investment.
You don't make you money when you sell, you make money when you buy. This is an often overlooked fact of investing.
I make Ravens for 79 million a pop and sell them for 90.5 million in LoneTrek.
Its buying the minerals cheap is how you make the ISK. Not selling ships high. 
You people need to read up on some investment materials and educate on how it works.
This is my Opinion and not that of Black River Industries or any of its members. |
Cloora
Black River Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:29:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Cyclops43
For Ravens you'll have a lot of competition from guys like me....
I'm mission running to finance my 0.0 play, and when I've gathered a large enough pile of minerals from refined loot, I build them into a Raven.
I'm not particularly interested in whether I sell that a million or more below the mineral price as selling one Raven is a lot less effort than selling a bunch of minerals.
This is of.c. illogical seen from a builders perspective, but is logical from mine.
I'm getting the minerals as 'by-products' from my mission running, whereas you have to mine/buy them. This is probably one of the main reasons its hard to make money as a ship-builder these days.
Personally I think loot dropped from missions should not include basic T1 items at all, but should mainly be composed of items 'outside' the builder produced ones.
For examply the newly introduced 'Nanite Compound' would have been a perfect replacement for some of the basic T1 stuff dropped in missions, but CCP chose to make it an ISK sink instead.
CCP should take a lot of the NPC-sold only items and make them NPC-drops instead.....
Another person who must have forgotten thier basic High School Economics class. It is called Opportunity costs. If you "don't care" about selling Ravens way below market costs because you get the minerals for "free" from refining mission loot you are missing the point.
The "opportunity" cost of selling the minerals on the open market for more then the costs of actually making the ship (which includes manufacturing costs, opportunity costs of the BPO and the research time costs) is more then the Raven. You are still losing money.
Especially if you bought a Raven BPO for a billion ISK. You have to recoup those costs! Think about it people! Think about it!
This is my Opinion and not that of Black River Industries or any of its members. |
Cloora
Black River Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.08 16:49:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Ulstan
Quote:
I make Ravens for 79 million a pop and sell them for 90.5 million in LoneTrek.
Its buying the minerals cheap is how you make the ISK. Not selling ships high.
So if you got the minerals for free (mined them yourself) you could sell that Raven for 25 million and still make a huge profit?
The issue isn't where you get your profit from, the issue is selling ravens at prices less than the minerals would sell for separately.
I don't mind myself if people do that, just a lot of them do it based on completely flawed understandings of economics.
Wow... reading comprehension FTW.
If you mine the minerals they are not FOR FREE! There is opportunity costs involved with making a ship and selling them for less then the minerals are worth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost
Read up...
This is my Opinion and not that of Black River Industries or any of its members. |
Cloora
Black River Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.08 16:53:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Quote:
Its buying the minerals cheap is how you make the ISK. Not selling ships high
Or, you could just sell those minerals for more than the raven is worth...
Jeez you guys are just not worth the effort to try to explain. Or maybe you are...
If I bought these minerals for 79 million then obviously I was able to obtain them right? Pretty obvious, ok. Now I could sell them for 88 million in Jita, maybe, if I babysit my sell orders and its a huge PITA to do that. Or I can make Ravens and sell them from 90.5-92.5 million ISK, make more ISK AND do it easier in my home system.
Yeah option #2 please!
This is my Opinion and not that of Black River Industries or any of its members. |
Cloora
Black River Industries
|
Posted - 2008.04.09 01:58:00 -
[5]
You people that keep thinking the minerals you mine are for free are killing me.
I mine, obviously, look at my sig. BUT! You have to PAY yourself for time spent mining. I don't care if you do it with 3 alts full time like I do, or you do it semi-AFK with one hulk and Cargo expanders and rigs (if I set mine up like that I can walk away for 15 minutes before I have to come back). Either way, if you can sell the minerals on SELL orders on the market for more then you can if you spend the ISK on either a BPO and research it or buy BPCs off contracts and build a ship then you are doing something wrong.
Building a ship is not fun in itself. Its click click and wait 3 hours ding! its done.
BUT if you do it right then you make oodles of ISK. *looks at her wallet* yeah trust me.
1) You need Production Efficiency level 5
2) You either need a researched BPO or you need to buy BPC off contracts. ME 25 would be good
3) A hauler to get enough minerals for what you are buying. (Freighters are wonderful and not too risky with an alt webber)
4) A mission running station that is busy, but not too busy as to have tons of other people competing for business.
Now once you have a decent bankroll to start with. Let's say one billion ISK after you have some BPCs or a BPO (researched) then you can start doing buy orders for minerals. Play with the market, buy as low as you can in a range comfertable for you to haul in (I only set 2 jumps buy orders myself) and keep an eye open for changes in others buy orders that may be over yours.
Don't panic if you find a station buy order in your range that is a lot higher then yours. You decide if it is worth it to forfeit that station until his buy order fills. If someone is fighting you on a range that takes a big chunk of your area you have to be careful and decide how high you want to adjust.
You have an obvious advantage if you can babysit your order and adjust it on the penny right after your competitor does. This ensures your order is on top most of the time and fills first.
Once all your orders are filled gather it all up.
Produce said ships.
Sell according to market demand. Remember, if no one is selling what you are selling in that station, you can set a higher price then other station in the system or in nearby systems. Why? Because you are at the station that the mission running agent is in, and people are lazy and will pay more to not have to move. But be reasonable still or your stuff never sells.
PROFIT!
I can't make Ravens and Drakes as fast as they sell.
It is a lucrative business and I should not be giving away all these tips to my competitors but ah well. I'm a nice guy. 
This is my Opinion and not that of Black River Industries or any of its members. |
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