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Irn Bruce
Rentboyz
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Posted - 2008.04.04 00:29:00 -
[31]
Anybody got any opinions on my idea?
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Kahega Amielden
Legacy Syndicate
space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2008.04.04 00:51:00 -
[32]
 Quote:
People complain now about spending 3 hours roaming through 100 systems in 0.0 and never finding targets. Without local those same gangs will still spend 3 hours roaming through 0.0 without finding any targets, the only difference being that over those 2 hours they'll only cover 30 systems because they'll be spending most of their time scanning in every system on the route to find out if there's even anyone else there to kill.
Hit F10
Sort by # of pilots in space.
???
Profit.
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Cailais
VITOC
Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.04.04 01:01:00 -
[33]
Theres are inherent problems with keeping local, and with removing it.
What intel do you need when you enter a system?
1. Whos in it.
2. What they are flying.
3. Where they are.
Local only provides the first, but its a big 'first' as without it youre unlikely to progress to points 2 & 3 that quickly. Local also provides much of the 'social' structure of EVE, we almost define systems, and regions not by what they look like but who is in them.
Changing local has the potential to have wider ramifications than just pvp intel. Wars, alliances, grudges and corps have all been formed off the back of the local chat window - its a integral part of the MMO experience.
C.
Improved Low Sec Idea!! |
Santiago Fahahrri
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Posted - 2008.04.04 01:23:00 -
[34]
An idea:
1. Set local channel so that in 0.0 space pilots are only visible in the local channel if they speak. Pilots who do not speak would be invisible in the channel.
2. Add the option of an auto-refresh to the directional scanner, making it a viable option for spotting incomming ships without constantly clicking on it.
3. Return the ALT key functionality of activating the little square on your own ship (useful for aligning the scanner when using small scanning arcs, like 5 degree) and useful for locating objects in space for both scanning and "warp to" points.
With this alternative, pilots in 0.0 would need to rely on directional scanners (with the auto-refresh option) to spot incomming ships. The owner of the ship would be a mystery unless contact was made via chat channel or the ships get within visual range of each other.
This option could easily fit into the scheme of things. It could be said that the auto-populating of pilot identities in the local channel is a security/convenience of empire space. Because it is a security service, it is Concord provided. Essentially it's nothing more than a local "Directory" service.
Outside of Concord protected space, the directory service is not provided. There is of course, the same open comm channel, but because there is no service provider for the "Directory", the presence and identity of pilots in the local system can only be known if that pilot actually uses the channel and broadcasts.
I think there could be great fun and tension in the moments when groups of ships detect each other on scan, but have not identified each other. The concept of "hailing" the other ship on the local channel to identify them could emerge in some areas and a ettiquete of identification or silence may develop with different groups. Think of submarine movies with the crews silently trying to find and identify other submarines via blips and pings before giving up their own identity by breaking radio silence.
Miners, ratters, etc, could rely on the scanner (that's still auto-refreshing) and be prepared to warp away or cloak at the first blip of an unknown ship detection.
Idea concluded.
~ Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic |
Soulweaver
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Posted - 2008.04.04 07:57:00 -
[35]
Local if fine the way it is no need to frak with it.
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Mysdora
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Posted - 2008.04.04 09:19:00 -
[36]
I support removing local. Perhaps the scanner could then be changed so that instead of having to actively click it, you could keep it open and it would update itself every so often or whenever ships appear inside scan range. Also make ship scan ranges variable, and add modules to boost scan range and/or update frequency. This way with the right ship/module you can scan someone without being detected, but they'd still have a few seconds to react while you warp in. Coverts and recons of course would have the benefit of going completely unnoticed, as they should.
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Garr Anders
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.04.04 11:40:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Garr Anders on 04/04/2008 11:41:07
Originally by: Mysdora
... the scanner could then be changed so that instead of having to actively click it, you could keep it open and it would update itself every so often or whenever ships appear inside scan range ...
They mentioned (in an interview/devblog/fanfest talk cant remember) that an continiously running scanner would create exponential amount of lag (just like all Area of Effect weapons as the Doomsday and smartbombs, bombs and bubbles). That's why they have so few area affects.
So although a continiously running scanner which is the gameplay locigcal solution is the worst technical solution (due to the amont of database queris it would cause).
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Garr Anders
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Dav Varan
Snuff inc
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Posted - 2008.04.04 11:48:00 -
[38]
/Signed
Local is way overpowered.
Make it display on talk mode like the trade channels.
Extra bonus , your comp does not have to load 700 characters to local when you jump to Jita.
Lag busting mod , really cant understand why this change was not made years ago. |
Riddick Valer
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Posted - 2008.04.04 12:40:00 -
[39]
If local is ever removed, I'd like to see more alliance-wide ingame resources for intel.
Examples:
Cov-ops and Recons can "flag" an enemy that is on their overview in any space. This ship location/type is automatically reported and can be seen as a map filter for the universe map. So, cloaked cov-ops right-click and report various ships/fleets going through. Fleet commanders open their map, pick the Alliance Intel filter and see hotspots where motion is recorded.
Sovereign space allows you to anchor early warning systems. These are low-hp structures (500k hp) that sit at gates. When a red ship jumps, it will auto-update the Alliance Intel feature on the system map. If destroyed, it sends a message to alliance chat saying "Scanner in System XXX Gate YYY attacked by a ZZZZ (gives shiptype, not pilot)". This way the alliance has a warning of incoming invaders. However, it also allows invaders to randomly jump in and destroy systems to feint attacks to cover up their real approach.
Eve needs more strategic depth. Local currently removes the fog of war. However, there needs to be tools in place to allow alliances some in-game intel. It can't all be done with TS spies.
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Julius Romanus
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Posted - 2008.04.04 12:45:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Rid**** Valer
If local is ever removed, I'd like to see more alliance-wide ingame resources for intel.
Examples:
Cov-ops and Recons can "flag" an enemy that is on their overview in any space. This ship location/type is automatically reported and can be seen as a map filter for the universe map. So, cloaked cov-ops right-click and report various ships/fleets going through. Fleet commanders open their map, pick the Alliance Intel filter and see hotspots where motion is recorded.
Sovereign space allows you to anchor early warning systems. These are low-hp structures (500k hp) that sit at gates. When a red ship jumps, it will auto-update the Alliance Intel feature on the system map. If destroyed, it sends a message to alliance chat saying "Scanner in System XXX Gate YYY attacked by a ZZZZ (gives shiptype, not pilot)". This way the alliance has a warning of incoming invaders. However, it also allows invaders to randomly jump in and destroy systems to feint attacks to cover up their real approach.
Eve needs more strategic depth. Local currently removes the fog of war. However, there needs to be tools in place to allow alliances some in-game intel. It can't all be done with TS spies.
That sounds like some good times I've had in the past. Signed.
------------------
For Medicinal Use Only. |
Cailais
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Posted - 2008.04.04 15:18:00 -
[41]
My solution, comments welcome.
Linkage
C.
 Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Improved Low Sec Idea!! |
Ferria
BladeRunners INC
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Posted - 2008.04.04 16:18:00 -
[42]
I know this doesn't affect 0.0 space or much of low sec, but we do know of one change coming that affects local, Ambulation. It has been stated that stations will become their own entity, basicly a system within a system. thus players docked in a station would not see those who aren't and someone not docked wouldn't see those who are. this solves some lag issues, jita mostly, but also changes how much info you can get from local if your docked.
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Mystic Pete
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Posted - 2008.04.05 04:40:00 -
[43]
Like I said bofore I think the best way to deal with this would be to have settings options for local.
The first option would be as local is now. This means empire dwellers who wish to be visable and use local as an MMO chat tool will not be affected by the change. For the majority of pilots in empire they will not even need to change.
The other end of the spectrum you can choose to appear only when you speak. There could be a timer (say 15 minutes) after which you will disapear again.
In between you could allow crop or allicance members to see you.
I think that a probe (simerlar to exploration) that has a large (almost system wide) area of affect. This probe will sit in system for say 10-30 minutes and ping the area for ships in space. This will give you an effective number of people in system (in space). These probes will be smaal and weak so scouts could potentially shoot them down. Basically it's an early warning system.
I just noticed another topic complaining about the annoyance of afk cloakers. Fixing local will also remove the afk cloaker problem. Even if it is by pilots always assuming theres a cloaked ship in system.
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0raven0
Point-Zero
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.05 06:10:00 -
[44]
You realize that its an even bigger tool to you the pvper. If you don't have local than you will never know if someone is in the system your fleet has jumped into. you will spend 5-10 minutes checking every system, finding if ships are at POSs ect, and then moving on. When you finally find someone they will still probably get away.
------
Quote:
tuxford: AT LEAST ITS SPEELED CORRECTLY
tuxford: spelled*
Oveur: rofl
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Outo
Phoenix Propulsion Labs
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Posted - 2008.04.07 19:50:00 -
[45]
Simple fix to the cloaker problem.
If its cloaked you cannot see info, avatar or name. There will just be a blank spot in system local, and Constellation. But if you talk in local your cover is blown and you apear in local.
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Scatim Helicon
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Posted - 2008.04.07 22:05:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
People complain now about spending 3 hours roaming through 100 systems in 0.0 and never finding targets. Without local those same gangs will still spend 3 hours roaming through 0.0 without finding any targets, the only difference being that over those 2 hours they'll only cover 30 systems because they'll be spending most of their time scanning in every system on the route to find out if there's even anyone else there to kill.
Hit F10
Sort by # of pilots in space.
???
Profit.
where '???' is equal to 'realise that the pilots in space map is woefully inaccurate', then yeah, I guess. 
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Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Angelonico
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Posted - 2008.04.08 10:43:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Angelonico on 08/04/2008 10:44:38
Originally by: Rid**** Valer
If local is ever removed, I'd like to see more alliance-wide ingame resources for intel.
Examples:
Cov-ops and Recons can "flag" an enemy that is on their overview in any space. This ship location/type is automatically reported and can be seen as a map filter for the universe map. So, cloaked cov-ops right-click and report various ships/fleets going through. Fleet commanders open their map, pick the Alliance Intel filter and see hotspots where motion is recorded.
Sovereign space allows you to anchor early warning systems. These are low-hp structures (500k hp) that sit at gates. When a red ship jumps, it will auto-update the Alliance Intel feature on the system map. If destroyed, it sends a message to alliance chat saying "Scanner in System XXX Gate YYY attacked by a ZZZZ (gives shiptype, not pilot)". This way the alliance has a warning of incoming invaders. However, it also allows invaders to randomly jump in and destroy systems to feint attacks to cover up their real approach.
Eve needs more strategic depth. Local currently removes the fog of war. However, there needs to be tools in place to allow alliances some in-game intel. It can't all be done with TS spies.
Something along these lines seems in order. I like the idea.
Local has needed a "nerf" for quite sometime now. The only real worry people have are ease of use issues for fleet and gang work, and a simple solution would be the one above. "flagging" once sniffed out by scouts or recon vessels.
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Irn Bruce
Rentboyz
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Posted - 2008.04.08 12:02:00 -
[48]
The biggest problem with removing local is not being able to tell if a system is empty. That would lead to hours of searching for people who aren't there. There definitely needs to be a report of how many people are in local, even if it doesn't tell you who they are. Covert Ops ships could be excluded from this number unless they speak in the local channel, or engage in aggression towards a player. All other ships would be included in the count, but not identified in local unless they spoke or aggroed.
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Matrixcvd
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.08 14:56:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Irn Bruce
The biggest problem with removing local is not being able to tell if a system is empty.
that is not a problem but a solution, remove local from 0.0
Originally by: Irn Bruce
That would lead to hours of searching for people who aren't there.
Minus the stupid alt key, if it takes you hours to find people in system you are doing it wrong.
Originally by: Irn Bruce
There definitely needs to be a report of how many people are in local, even if it doesn't tell you who they are. Covert Ops ships could be excluded from this number unless they speak in the local channel, or engage in aggression towards a player. All other ships would be included in the count, but not identified in local unless they spoke or aggroed.
huh? you are making it more complicated, its a covert ops, it can warp cloaked, its off scanner. Get rid of local already i am tired of people running away, there would be tons of more fights without local
moar pwnage
as i suggested earlier, to help pilots a anchorable to count jumps thats easily deployable and destroyable to help monitor jumps into system would be great. Too many times people see someone coming into local and they just leave without any other intel. End this now CCP get rid of local
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Ma Zhiqiang
Huang Yinglong
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.04.08 21:33:00 -
[50]
Remove local channel.
Boost solar system map/scanner features.
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Irn Bruce
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Posted - 2008.04.09 05:29:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Matrixcvd
Minus the stupid alt key, if it takes you hours to find people in system you are doing it wrong.
If you are going through a system that is 100AU across, that is a radius of 50AU. This system is roughly spherical. That is a volume of approximately 510,000 cu.AU to scan. The scanner, as it is, covers a volume of approximately 13,500 cu.AU. Now, even if it was as simple as dividing one number by the other to see how many scanning spots you would need (which it's not, this is going to give us a massive underestimate) you would need at least 37 spots to scan from. Which means 37 scans, and by the time you've done all that somebody could have arrived in local in an area you've already scanned. So, you have absolutely no way of knowing if a system is totally empty. Lots and lots of time would be wasted scanning completely empty systems, just in case someone might be there. And more often than not, you won't find anybody. That's just not fun.
The only way to make entirely removing local viable would be to introduce a scanner that quickly tells you if a system is populated or not. And if you're going to do that, why not just tell the player at a glance with a count of players in local?
Quote:
huh? you are making it more complicated, its a covert ops, it can warp cloaked, its off scanner. Get rid of local already i am tired of people running away, there would be tons of more fights without local
moar pwnage
as i suggested earlier, to help pilots a anchorable to count jumps thats easily deployable and destroyable to help monitor jumps into system would be great. Too many times people see someone coming into local and they just leave without any other intel. End this now CCP get rid of local
There would not be tons more fights with no local, because you'd spend 90% of your time searching for people who aren't there. Lowsec and 0.0 are very sparsely populated, there are lots of systems that are totally empty, and at least now we can quickly see if a system is empty.
The only type of people who run away at the slightest sign of any presence in local are people who don't want to fight at all, probably because they're mining or ratting. These people will still run away when they see you on scanner, the only difference will be that they will have to repeatedly press their scanner button. If somebody wants to run away, let them run away. It's up to you to catch them before they can. Do you think they enjoy having to log out of the game and then hope they don't log back on to find themselves in an even busier, more hostile system?
As for a deployable counter, do you not think people will just destroy them on sight if they don't belong to them? Everyone will use them, then everyone will destroy them, then everybody will stop using them because they never last long enough to be any use.
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