Originally by: Rasta we

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Edited by: Rasta we on 31/03/2008 23:46:39

Originally by: Katana Seiko

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Question: Do doomsday devices hurt other titans nearby as well?

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DD's hurt ALL surounding ships within 250km , INCLUDEING itself.

So if 8 titans let of 8 DD's u have almost ALL of there capital fleet deep into there tanks. this gives the oposeing fleet a much bigger chance to take out the titans support. nothin is imposible. it just needs planing and alot of time for it to work.

EDIT: maby not deep into there tanks but close to it

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Originally by: Bozse

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Edited by: Bozse on 31/03/2008 23:00:43
Combine the bomb like feature of the doomsday with it's current function but decrease the dmg range to 30k ish to keep the crowd controll feature around the titan it self and you might have a viable sollution.

It can then be used as a tactical weapon at greater range with the bomb feature of the DD, it can use it as a last resort to shake tacklers and bubbles around it, or as a very specific tactical dmg weapon at closerange with the greater risk of needing to be within 30k to do the dmg.

Edit: Super caps in general needs a buff in the tanking department though, to easy to gank once held down as it stands now and would motivate more open use of them in propper combat.

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Originally by: Kagura Nikon

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Same way Mom is a super carrier. Titan should be a super dread.
Just give 8 high slots 7 weapons 1 siege module, enough cap to run 2 Capital repair forever.
Add a drone bay and fighter capability of a normal carrier:). done you have a terrifying ship, but FUN for both sides.

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Originally by: Kagura Nikon

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Originally by: Gamesguy

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Originally by: Kagura Nikon

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Same way Mom is a super carrier. Titan should be a super dread.
Just give 8 high slots 7 weapons 1 siege module, enough cap to run 2 Capital repair forever.
Add a drone bay and fighter capability of a normal carrier:). done you have a terrifying ship, but FUN for both sides.

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Thats quite possibly the dumbest idea so far.

Yes lets make the titan worth only 2 dreads and have to enter siege mode. So it can die to 10 dreads with no way to save it.

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It would be as fair as the mothership is today. ALSO its 2 dreads and 1 carrier!!! And YES that is the level of power we need. We NEED titans to die much more frequently because by end of year we wil have like 100 titans in game.

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Originally by: Kagura Nikon

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And WHY shoudl anythign be able to survive against 10 Dreads in close range configuration for long? BTW you didnt even cared to do the math. A titan with typical price fitting deadspace stff and Siege module would EASILY tank 10 dreads!!

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And no i do not think ANYTHIGN shoudl be able to withstand 20 dreads firing on you.

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Originally by: HydroSan

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Originally by: stinger7

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They are fine in fact i remember that it was you goons who had them "fixed" the last time you were losing ships to them. So what now you cannot zerg anymore space from BOB they are suddenly broken again?.

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Titans were "fixed" by making them unable to just jump around, doomsday and jump out when it got hairy. It was broken because you'd have a single Titan and a Mothership camping a station and there was nothing you could do about it. CCP fixed it by making them more vulnerable to dictors and giving some real drawbacks to the doomsday weapon.

At the scale of one or two Titans this is fine. It means you have to plan the use of your Titans and have some kind of solid strategy for using it and a backup/support fleet there for the ride to bail it out. Shrike/SirMolle died last June because he only had a couple of carriers, a single MS and a couple of HACs with him as support verses a bunch of battleships and a large opposing capital fleet.

The problem now is that to avoid those kind of circumstances and bring back Titans to the "power" they had before, alliances are spending billions, possibly trillions of ISK trying to build more and more Titans to gradually reduce and then eliminate any risk associated with using Titans as tactical nukes. I don't think CCP really wants alliances with ten or eleven Titans running around in 0.0 making it impossible for any alliance that relies on subcapitals to operate.

It's not just BoB either. Every alliance is really desperate to get their hands on some fancy mining moons so they can produce themselves multiple Titans. Under current mechanics I see smaller/non-rich alliances getting utterly crushed and then the remaining alliances hording mining moons and attempting to build more Titans than the other guy. Meanwhile, the subcapital pilots who previously had a role are going to be wondering why they don't just a) sell their subcap char and buy a dread/carrier char, b) leave their 0.0 alliance because there is nothing to do in the face of eight Titans (and this is for both sides too: k:d ratio aside how would it feel to show up for an op and sit around for an hour only to discover your enemy can't/won't engage because of Titans? Or how would it feel if YOU couldn't engage because your own alliance has Titans on the field and warping in would be sudden death?).

Either way it's not very balanced and it eliminates tactics in favour of building as many expensive ships as possible and then blobbing a system with them. Combined with lag and desync bugs and you're looking at a game that is appealing to capital pilots alone and nobody else.

If Titans were turned into massive logistics powerhouses that didn't stack positively in terms of use then we wouldn't have Titan blobs. Mobile stations, jump bridges, higher gang bonuses, a kind of 'respawn point' for fleets would be great for any alliance who wanted to build one, as it would allow them to both assault and defend systems more effectively. For instance, if you were defending, the Titan could act as a second station in that system, meaning you're freed from any inconvenience that might have been caused by your enemy locking down the station or disabiling station services: a major strategic advantage, since you could just respawn in-system and keep fighting.

Titans as they are now prevent major battle from happening because it allows three or four pilots the ability to press a button, sit back and watch the killmails roll in. Titans as mobile stations would allow major battles to happen over a long period of time. How epic would it be for major battles to go on for hours, even days because both sides had Titans and just kept going at it? It would be near-constant PvP between subcapital fleets, as opposed to the "all or nothing" effect capital PvP has on alliances.

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Originally by: HydroSan

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Originally by: Gamesguy

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Simple, 1 DD every 10 minutes/grid.

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Oh come on. You're in a big 0.0 alliance. Have you participated in any of the ops your alliance calls? You should know by now that ten minutes can take place over the course of an hour, especially when large numbers of capitals are concerned.

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Originally by: Kagura Nikon

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3 Capital reps 3 Corpus X hardeners 2 corpus EANM. Stick all mids with officer cap recahrgers and you can sustain TWICE that in cap usage. Now add a siege mode to taht and you would have 33k dps tanked PERMANENT. Add some good drugs and you reach 38 K


For those things EFT is a good tool (sicne it allows Siege module in a titan :P)


And don't tell me this is an illusory setup because titans ARE fitted with dozens billions of is in modules.

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And 9/10 times dreads are not GANK fitted but are fitted with long ragne guns and not more than 1 damage mod. That is enough for you to hold 20 dreads logn enough to your support fleet do somethign about some fo them.

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Originally by: Goumindong

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Originally by: HydroSan

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Edited by: HydroSan on 25/04/2008 02:40:14
I've reverted to using ad hominem against you because I've already written no less than three giant blocks of text and all you and the other one-man-alt-corp posters have done is:

1. Bring up politics including my alliance.
2. Shout ANTI-ZERG as loud and as many times as you can.
3. Bring up "suggestions" that would do absolutely nothing to prevent Titan stacking because it doesn't take into account anything I or other people have brought up in said giant walls of text.

Now either post with your main, address the things I've talked about or get out of this thread. Thanks in advance.

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Now you know how it feels.

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Originally by: Goumindong

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Originally by: Gamesguy

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You, of all people, dont get to make this claim.

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That is rich, coming from you.

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Originally by: Chomapuraku

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burning out of a bubble only works when you're not lagged out in a giant fleet fight. and even if you can burn out of that bubble, telling your ship to warp and having the server receive you request to do so before the titan comes onto grid and spams the DDD button is still a big if

i've always thought that gang links should only work on the same grid as the gang-booster. otherwise, you can just sit at a pos and boost your gang remotely. the new DDD would apply only to friendlies on-grid, and in the same squad (not the whole wing or fleet.) huge bonus to the capabilities of the support fleet, speeds up the fight, puts everyone at risk, and makes you have to fight for your victory, not just use broken game mechanics and having you and three friends push the i-win button at the same time

poke holes in the specifics i pointed out, but regardless, the design philosophy i'd employ for the titan is a ship that doesn't have an i-win button, extends the capabilities of its fleet, and makes the fight more fun for all involved, rather than the current system where you warp in, maybe load one or two frames after the grid, lose your ship in 1-2 successive doomsdays, then wake up in station after the third one.

MAKE THE TITAN MAKE FIGHTS MORE FUN FOR ALL INVOLVED. my idea of a good time is not a single ship that neutralizes the entire enemy fleet before they can fly in, get on some killmails, and have fun. we all get popped in battle, it would just be nice if there wasn't a ship that ends the fight before it starts

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Originally by: HydroSan

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Originally by: Gamesguy

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Eve is never balanced on lag, or ships would have a lot more hitpoints.

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Drones and Torpedoes would like a word with you.

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Originally by: HydroSan

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Originally by: Gamesguy

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Originally by: HydroSan

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Originally by: Gamesguy

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Eve is never balanced on lag, or ships would have a lot more hitpoints.

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Drones and Torpedoes would like a word with you.

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And how are drones and torpedoes balanced on lag?

Before you say it, the drone reduction/rof increase is not a nerf or a rebalance, because on paper 5 drones with drone interfacing 5=10 drones previously, and same with the heavy drone rof increase.

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Reduced the number of drones a ship could deploy because of lag.

Removed Torpedo "splash damage" because it caused lag (and got people concorded).

EVE is balanced on lag all the damn time. Stop spouting nonsense.

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Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg

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Originally by: Gamesguy

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Eve is never balanced on lag, or ships would have a lot more hitpoints.

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Ship hitpoints have doubled over the last 18 months, capital hitpoints have been tripled to quadrupled. Object collisions, fleet mechanics and shiptypes have been changed/added to deal with the realities of lag.

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for 50 million isk, what subcap can tank 250k of damage, spread evenly between the four types? if you answered "none", you are correct.

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