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HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.09 20:52:00 - [1] Originally by: Gaogan Jesus I can't believe this whine fest is still going on. The wambulance dispatchers must be out to lunch. If your enemy can field 8 titans and you can't field at least 3 or 4 of your own, with a dozen motherships and 30+ carriers, YOU LOOSE, come back when you are a worthy challenge. Whining about it is like complaining that you lost to 10 bs with your 25 frigs. OMG! BS have too many hp to kill quickly with frigs, and their drones tear us up! No fair! There are tactics you can form using interceptors to kite drones, out transverse BS guns and stay alive verses a battleship group. This means that the battleship group must bring Cruiser or Battlecruiser-based anti-support to counter them. Against a Titan group there is no counter. One doomsday is enough to take out a BS not specifically tanked for the doomsday. Two is enough to destroy any BS that isn't rigged and specifically tanked. Three cannot be tanked using a battleship unless you entirely neuter its offensive capabilities, and then your enemy can just pick you off using conventional ships. Anything lower than a BS is obliterated by the first DD, meaning no antisupport. If you want to save control towers, siege control towers, jump through a gate or any of the things generally associated with warfare, you need to be on a predictable grid which can be camped by Titans. "Strike other locations!", you say? Thankfully, reinforced timers DICTATE ENGAGEMENT TIMES to the second. Let me give you a rundown of what happens during a POS siege: 1. You suicide about a dozen or so remote repping BS (on a good day) to take out the jammer. Sometimes your enemy know you're coming and your BS fleet gets wiped out by a combination of fleet-fit BS, carriers and/or Titans. 2. You siege the tower with caps. It reinforces for 1d 17h. 3. You do the same in another system. They set the timer for 2d 2h. 4. For either situation, you have two choices: come back later, or stay in system. 4a. You come back around 1d 15h later. The cyno jammer has been repped, and your enemy has four Titans camping the gate with another four protecting the tower you wanted to hit. 4b. You stay in system and your enemy does the same with the eight Titans meaning your support fleet is completely useless. You cannot warp them onto the grid to kill the tower or take potshots at the shield repping carriers because you will get triple doomsdayed. They rep the tower and you failed in destroying it. Now you have two choices at this point. Either bring your own number of Titans (and nullify their support fleet) or you don't have even a chance of taking out the tower. The problem is that if you don't have the same level of deterrence, you cannot do anything. If you CAN field that many Titans, it becomes a capital-only affair, with subcapital pilots wondering why they even play the 0.0 warfare game when their only purpose is dying to Titans and POS gunners while shooting cyno jammers. The point is that all of this is BROKEN. POS warfare by itself wasn't that great but combined with capital ships that become 250km radius killzones for anything less than a capital ship and you turn the heaping pile of crap that is POS warfare into a fresh new hell of pilot burnout and failure.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.11 22:29:00 - [2] If you think eight Titans is broken now, just wait until alliances start getting ten or twelve of them: six on defense, six on offense. It probably wont be long until Band of Brothers or Morsus Mihi gain those kinds of numbers, and it wont be long before other alliances gain five or six of their own. CCP, if you care about 0.0 warfare you will abandon this "blob killer" idea and look at the reasons of why blob warfare exists in the first place. Titans are taking what little enjoyment there was to be had out of territory warfare.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.12 02:18:00 - [3] Originally by: stinger7 I thought you were the big space holders on the block now?..so why aint you building em?. What does the number of Titans my alliance owns have to do with what I said?
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.18 15:37:00 - [4] Originally by: Uzuki Shootmenow I'm not a fan of a DD. I've died to a couple myself. The sad part about this is, if Goons had 8 titans (and knew how to use them actually) and BoB had only 1, this thread wouldnt even start. thank you. This is extremely relevant to the topic at hand, which is discussing the broken mechanics of Titans. Either present facts to support your claim of either "it's fine" or "it's overpowered" or go back to CAOD. Thanks.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.18 17:12:00 - [5] Originally by: stinger7 They are fine in fact i remember that it was you goons who had them "fixed" the last time you were losing ships to them. So what now you cannot zerg anymore space from BOB they are suddenly broken again?. Titans were "fixed" by making them unable to just jump around, doomsday and jump out when it got hairy. It was broken because you'd have a single Titan and a Mothership camping a station and there was nothing you could do about it. CCP fixed it by making them more vulnerable to dictors and giving some real drawbacks to the doomsday weapon. At the scale of one or two Titans this is fine. It means you have to plan the use of your Titans and have some kind of solid strategy for using it and a backup/support fleet there for the ride to bail it out. Shrike/SirMolle died last June because he only had a couple of carriers, a single MS and a couple of HACs with him as support verses a bunch of battleships and a large opposing capital fleet. The problem now is that to avoid those kind of circumstances and bring back Titans to the "power" they had before, alliances are spending billions, possibly trillions of ISK trying to build more and more Titans to gradually reduce and then eliminate any risk associated with using Titans as tactical nukes. I don't think CCP really wants alliances with ten or eleven Titans running around in 0.0 making it impossible for any alliance that relies on subcapitals to operate. It's not just BoB either. Every alliance is really desperate to get their hands on some fancy mining moons so they can produce themselves multiple Titans. Under current mechanics I see smaller/non-rich alliances getting utterly crushed and then the remaining alliances hording mining moons and attempting to build more Titans than the other guy. Meanwhile, the subcapital pilots who previously had a role are going to be wondering why they don't just a) sell their subcap char and buy a dread/carrier char, b) leave their 0.0 alliance because there is nothing to do in the face of eight Titans (and this is for both sides too: k:d ratio aside how would it feel to show up for an op and sit around for an hour only to discover your enemy can't/won't engage because of Titans? Or how would it feel if YOU couldn't engage because your own alliance has Titans on the field and warping in would be sudden death?). Either way it's not very balanced and it eliminates tactics in favour of building as many expensive ships as possible and then blobbing a system with them. Combined with lag and desync bugs and you're looking at a game that is appealing to capital pilots alone and nobody else. If Titans were turned into massive logistics powerhouses that didn't stack positively in terms of use then we wouldn't have Titan blobs. Mobile stations, jump bridges, higher gang bonuses, a kind of 'respawn point' for fleets would be great for any alliance who wanted to build one, as it would allow them to both assault and defend systems more effectively. For instance, if you were defending, the Titan could act as a second station in that system, meaning you're freed from any inconvenience that might have been caused by your enemy locking down the station or disabiling station services: a major strategic advantage, since you could just respawn in-system and keep fighting. Titans as they are now prevent major battle from happening because it allows three or four pilots the ability to press a button, sit back and watch the killmails roll in. Titans as mobile stations would allow major battles to happen over a long period of time. How epic would it be for major battles to go on for hours, even days because both sides had Titans and just kept going at it? It would be near-constant PvP between subcapital fleets, as opposed to the "all or nothing" effect capital PvP has on alliances.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.18 17:51:00 - [6] Originally by: stinger7 Sorry HydroSan but id rather see capital blobs in a few years be the norm in 0.0 than see crappy T1 zerg fleets crashing nodes every night from the day the DDD is nerfed. Reducing the DDD to 150-200km will make then vulnerable to snipers in BS and to capital ships of course. But for the game to allow a alliance without capital support to zerg a alliance with capital support is totally unbalancing the idea of individual and group improvement within the game itself. If you went ahead and looked at recent battle reports on BoBs killboard you'd see GoonSwarm has had the upper hand in battleships for a little while now. But this is you attempting to change the subject by saying I have a bias and refusing to comment on anything I've said. The point is that EVEN WITH A 150+ STRONG T2 SNIPER FLEET, they are completely destroyed by multiple Titans. You cannot rep or siege a tower that is protected by them, and moving around Titans is trivial when you take into consideration that they have jump drives and can use jump bridges. Add onto that strontium timers which can be perfectly timed for when the titans can be online and you have unsiegable towers. The fact is that DESPITE skillpoints, fittings and numbers, Titans reign supreme. You could have a massive T1 cruiser blob and they'd get wiped out by multiple Titans. You could have a massive T2 battleship sniper blob and they'd get wiped out by multiple Titans. If you say "then attack somewhere else!" then I'm going to just laugh because you've obviously never participated in 0.0 warfare: stront timers and the grids that the towers are actually on dictate when and where engagements are going to happen. You used to be able to have a fight with subcaps over who saved and who destroyed a control tower. Just look at 9-9: there was a massive subcapital fight at every tower that came out between battleship groups. And it was FUN. Both sides lost a ton of ships and even despite the lag it was great because you finally didn't have to constantly mash your scanner to see if a horde of Titans were warping in. I'm willing to bet you couldn't find a single person that didn't find those skirmishes amazingly fun on either side. Capital ships should be a major strategic asset but they should be designed in a way that makes subcapitals do the fighting.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.19 01:46:00 - [7] Originally by: Gamesguy Simple, 1 DD every 10 minutes/grid. Oh come on. You're in a big 0.0 alliance. Have you participated in any of the ops your alliance calls? You should know by now that ten minutes can take place over the course of an hour, especially when large numbers of capitals are concerned.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.20 15:53:00 - [8] Originally by: Tanx0r whine worthless no-content post
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.22 05:10:00 - [9] Originally by: FourthStorm I can't be bothered to read 19 pages Then get out of this forum.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.23 19:52:00 - [10] Thankfully, CCP doesn't seem to think that "outspending your enemy" should be a viable way to get around using tactics and to break game balance. Again: I don't want Titans to be easy to kill. They should be big and powerful with good tanks etc. but they shouldn't be these instant death machines that prevent combat from occurring. They should be tools, not nukes.

HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.23 22:07:00 - [11] Originally by: stinger7 Id rather see a alliance outspend to win than outzerg to win tbh, so anything other than a small reduction in range to the DDD will be devastating to how the game is played in the arena of space holding and taking. A 150km DDD is plenty of nerf to remove the problems they cause without removing the only anti zerg tool the game has at the moment, Just so we're clear, blobbing with ships is bad and wrong, but blobbing with ISK is perfectly acceptable. We really should just go back to the good old days where EVE had absolutely no balance and if you weren't in a battleship you just died every time. 8x HS Geddon with infinite tracking FTW
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.23 23:50:00 - [12] Because it's not like Titans can move or anything.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.24 20:19:00 - [13] Originally by: lecrotta Theres no need for anybody to explain it you all you need do is read back in the thread as it has already been explained. That is of course if your tactical knowledge and experience in large scale fleet operation with titans is not sufficient to figure it out for your self. Thank you for this, lecrotta of "lecrotta Corp", for your insight into 0.0 warfare, politics, and balancing issues concerning capital ships and Titans. I've never heard of "lecrotta Corp" before! Could you please tell us what wars or skirmishes you've been in that has involved Titans or indeed 0.0 space at all? I'm very interested to see if lecrotta Corp is indeed the 0.0 tactical and strategic space-owning powerhouse they (you) pride themselves (yourself) on! I've been playing the game and living in 0.0 and participating in wars before Titans existed in the game. I'm just going to out on a limb here and say I know a lot more than the entirety of "lecrotta Corp" (you) does (do) about Titans and capital ship warfare!
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.25 02:40:00 - [14] Edited by: HydroSan on 25/04/2008 02:40:14 I've reverted to using ad hominem against you because I've already written no less than three giant blocks of text and all you and the other one-man-alt-corp posters have done is: 1. Bring up politics including my alliance. 2. Shout ANTI-ZERG as loud and as many times as you can. 3. Bring up "suggestions" that would do absolutely nothing to prevent Titan stacking because it doesn't take into account anything I or other people have brought up in said giant walls of text. Now either post with your main, address the things I've talked about or get out of this thread. Thanks in advance.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.25 19:13:00 - [15] Hey I'm just going to butcher this post by posting things I've already said. Originally by: lecrotta Edited by: lecrotta on 25/04/2008 13:34:12Even if i could post with one of my mains accounts instead of a cyno alts spare slot i would not simply because you would try to focus on the person not the point, although as a 2003 player i have seen and led fleets in eve enough to know what i am talking about tbh. My blocks of text have nothing to do with personal attacks. Quote: I just read your blocks of text btw and now Ive finished laughing i will just say that your ideas about how to fight titans are a joke. All of your negative comments involve your FC warping your conventional fleet into range of multiple DDD and getting nailed. Nowhere in your so called tactical knowledge and reviews do you use, consider the usefulness or that you even have your own titans or capital fleet around. Your only point on your self acclaimed blocks of text is that a conventional fleet cannot beat a fleet of multiple titans + super cap support + cap support + conventional support. Well duuhh of course not ffs where would be the balance if they could?. But hey if you bring your own titans + super cap support + cap support + conventional support to combat them i bet you could put up one heck of a fight and have a chance to actually win unless your commanders are as lacking in combat skill and knowledge as you are. My "only" point is that even with your own capital fleet and Titans support fleets are entirely nullified. Conventional fleets are absolutely useless when both sides have multiple Titans. You say there would be "one heck of a fight": of course there would be. Between the capital ships. The conventional ships just may as well log off because they're not going to fire a shot off before they eat 70k HP of damage. Again: POS timers and the grids POSes occupy dictate WHEN and WHERE engagements will happen. "Attacking another location" is not an option if you want to take a system. The defenders can dictate the POS reinforcement timers so even if you reinforce two systems, your enemy can just time them 5 hours apart and move their Titans between the two systems. Quote: Your ideas as usual favor the style of "blob T1 crap to win" (or zerging if you prefer) so much that if things are moved in the direction you want we would see more of the coalition style warfare that we did last year only ppl will fly cheap rubbish. What would be the point of flying dreads or carriers or even battleships when you can put ppl in fitted ships that cost less than their clones and just spam them into systems over and over until you have worn down the ppl your fighting. This is the future ppl like you want for eve and it always has been from day one. T2 snipers and HACs are just as dead in the face of multiple Titans as T1 frigates. Do you honestly think doomsdays discriminate between "crappy" ships and "uber" ships? Nice ad hominem attack there by the way, but unfortunately I've been flying T2 snipers for a year now non-stop so that little theory of yours is patently false. Quote: You claim its for the betterment of eve but the truth is its for the betterment of your alliance and nobody else, now.... you claim to be a expert on fleet and titan warfare so if you cannot see the opportunities that a DDD that is reduced to 150km or so would bring a good FC then its only because you do not want to and thats your narrow mindedness or lack of skill/game knowledge i will let you decide witch. I claim it's for the betterment of conventional fleet warfare. Conventional ships are what the majority of EVE fly. So yes, I want the game to be better for the majority of EVE players.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.26 01:54:00 - [16] Edited by: HydroSan on 26/04/2008 01:55:47 Originally by: Leto Aramaus Titans... and their doomsdays, are awesome. I think no ship smaller than a Capital should survive ONE doomsday. no matter how tanked it is. However 8 titans is quite ridiculous and does ruin fleet combat, to an extent. So my suggested solution is to make Titans more expensive. MUCH MUCH more expensive, so no single alliance can amass that many titans unless they build them up and save them and never use them. Also the doomsday should require more time to recharge before using again. If titans and their superweapons had these attributes I think I would say good job to anyone who had a fleet of 8 of them. This would only cement the superiority of alliances who already own a dozen Titans and entirely shut out any of the newer alliances who would like to build their own. Originally by: lecrotta As i have clearly stated over and over again and you seem to keep ignoring in your haste to reduce eve to a t1 blobbing game, reducing the DDD to a range of around 150km will give conventional fleets a big enough window to attack along with whatever capital assets you bring. Unless you are still going to warp inside that 150km with your conventional ships in which case you deserve to die. In your idea of eve without titans it would not be worth flying anything but a t1 frig or cruiser along with 3-500 other brosefs in a fleet and with more in reserve a few jumps out, after all what would be the use of a 200+ mil t2 sniper ship when you can spam 50 cruisers for the same price at no more risk?. Okay I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and present to you an entirely plausible situation assuming we go by your 150km doomsday nerf theory. My alliances has ten Titans. I keep five on grid in a group and five off grid at a POS. My enemy warps in at 190km within T2 battleship sniper range. If they primary a Titan, it can absorb up to 7k DPS sustainably due to officer mods and officer cap rechargers. Meanwhile, I use my three dictor alts to bubble the enemy battleship fleet and warp in my five remaining Titans into them and set off three doomsdays: their entire fleet is dead. Second scenario: my enemy wishes to take down a cyno jammer. They must either come in point blank in remote repping high-DPS battleships or go out to sniping range with T2 snipers. I warp in my four dictor alts, bubble them, and have five of my Titans warp in and doomsday: their entire fleet is dead. You entire theory fails to take into account both Titan stacking and the fact that Titans can warp, jump, cloak and move. What happens when alliances get 15 Titans, which is at most six months away at this rate? Just keep five Titans in little blobs at every possible approach vector and you've got a system which is a complete subcapital killzone. Let's just hope CCP doesn't share your "go capital or go home" approach. My skillpoints, my player skill, my ship, my modules and the skill of the FC MEAN ABSOLUTELY NOTHING when the enemy can Right Click -> Warp to Member and press F1 to wipe me out. Post with your ******* main.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.28 20:22:00 - [17] Originally by: Gamesguy Eve is never balanced on lag, or ships would have a lot more hitpoints. Drones and Torpedoes would like a word with you.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.29 03:26:00 - [18] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: HydroSan Originally by: Gamesguy Eve is never balanced on lag, or ships would have a lot more hitpoints. Drones and Torpedoes would like a word with you. And how are drones and torpedoes balanced on lag? Before you say it, the drone reduction/rof increase is not a nerf or a rebalance, because on paper 5 drones with drone interfacing 5=10 drones previously, and same with the heavy drone rof increase. Reduced the number of drones a ship could deploy because of lag. Removed Torpedo "splash damage" because it caused lag (and got people concorded). EVE is balanced on lag all the damn time. Stop spouting nonsense.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.01 16:49:00 - [19] Originally by: Chomapuraku any ship class should be fun to fly, but since this is a multiplayer game, it can't make every ship class that flies against it not-fun to fly. this is the entirety of "balance" in the game Yes, but clearly an alliance should just tell their members "if you don't fly a Titan you're useless" and build twenty Titans. Isn't it obvious that only the people who have and spend the most amount of money in EVE should be allowed to play?
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.05 21:47:00 - [20] Edited by: HydroSan on 05/05/2008 21:47:49 Originally by: TypoNinja Call me crazy but I don't think 20 billion isk in battleships and assorted T1 trash attacking a group of titans valued at over 200 billion isk a viable comparison for if the mechanic is broken or not. Again with the "THEY SPENT MORE MONEY THAN YOU SO THEY SHOULD WIN" crap. I'm just going to take an excerpt from the description CCP gave EVE on Steam: Quote: PvP (Player vs. Player) based on strategy, not levels - Tactics have value in EVE Online. Experience and treachery will often beat top-of-the-line modifications and fancy ships. Why should Titans break this rule? Why should an alliance be able to play on "god mode" by spending a lot of money on one single shiptype? Moon mining and other ways of making money means some alliances can make enough passive income to make a Titan in under two months. Once the heavy lifting of tower setup and BPO purchasing is done you can just keep pumping them out. Titans even allow you to produce most of the materials in empire and jump bridge them up, allowing you to produce more Titans faster. Why should we abandon balance in favour of whoever has the most amount of cash?

HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.06 02:58:00 - [21] Originally by: lecrotta They do not break the rule they encourage it on a massively greater scale, they force ppl to use tactics, strategy, fleet combat experience and even spying(treachery) to kill a titan or at least take systems off alliances that have titans. Just because you cannot be bothered to, do not have the skill to or want to take the risk of losing high isk value assets to kill high isk value assets does not mean they need nerfing. Why should we want eve 0.0 space holding or taking combat to be turned into several thousand morons in friggies and cruisers spamming blob after blob into a system just to gain a bit of space. If you cannot restrain yourself from trolling (ie: continuously spouting "t1 friggie/cruisers" even though the doomsday does not discriminate between a frigate and a T2 sniping battleship) I'm going to have to start reporting your posts. Please remain on topic.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.06 16:46:00 - [22] Originally by: lecrotta Why wouldn't 10 be vulnerable??? if you check bud it would take considerably more than 10 titans with 150km DDD to make a 200km or so dead zone around any object (like a jammer) when snipers can easily hit at 200km. Not only would there be huge gaps for the snipers to warp in and hit the target but as soon as the jammer fell those titans would be considerably out of position and vulnerable to not only the snipers but also to a hostile capital fleet. It becomes a cat and mouse game of "dodge the dictor swarm" as your enemy sends a two dozen interdictors at your fleet, attempting to bubble your battleships so they can warp at point blank and quad-DD them. Hey guys, we need to be on Grid X at X Time with that hostile POS because it's the only way to destroy the jammer/take down the tower itself! Even assuming a 150km nerf, all it would mean is more Titans being produced: four on the tower so you're REQUIRED to hit out to T2 sniper ranges, and then have your remaining eight off grid ready to warp to the dictors when they get ten bubbles up on the battleships. In the end you fail at sieging the tower because all your enemy does it continuously try to one-shot your entire fleet.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.06 16:47:00 - [23] Originally by: TypoNinja :words: Spending more money than your enemy should not destroy game balance.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.06 19:56:00 - [24] Originally by: lecrotta A game of cat and mouse??..thats like a game of tactical maneuvering, of having spies listening in on the movements of said titans or tacklers?. Plus its only the jammer that needs to be taken down by BS only as after that you can use capitals and i doubt that many titan pilots will wish to try one shotting your ships with a capital/dread fleet around. Separate TS channel and cyno jammers. Quote: Plus the fact that dictoring your fleet, warping in a titan and popping a DDD can be done with 1, 2 or 3 titans having 12 or more makes no difference. So now we have gone from a omg wtf unkillable/unbeatable group of 12 titans, to a bunch of 12 titans that need your guys not only to be tackled but if they miss a tackle are very much out of position and vulnerable to your fleet (although im not sure why 4 on the jammer are needed or how you think that those 4 can make a sniper fleet come in at t2 ranges on a 3d grid). Now maybe in the future when alliances have 20+ titans things may need to be looked at in regards to limiting the number of DDD blasts per grid or system or considering the way ppl nap it may even be a issue now but the fact is that removing the DDD dmg totaly is a huge mistake. BoB has 12. A month ago they had 8. Three months ago they had 5. Six months from now they will have 16-17. How many Press-A-Button-And-One-Shot-Your-Enemy ships do you need for before you consider it to be broken?
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.06 23:21:00 - [25] Originally by: TypoNinja only took me 100 billion isk ... per day, per system. That's totally not imbalanced what so ever.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.09 21:13:00 - [26] Originally by: Knoetje Can you guys stop the whining? It's getting boring and stupid. Nerf Titans from DD'ing, remove DD's full stop, stop BoB from having more Titans, nerf BoB, bla bla bla. Now let's say this isn't about BoB or whoever and it's simply about attention seeking. Titans are nerfed more than they are and they become obsolete. Then motherships will be next because after Titans they're the most powerful ships in EvE. Then carriers followed by Dreads. Then BS's because they're overpowered. They are followed by Battlecruisers. Cruisers are next. Frigates follow them and last we're all flying noob ships. Because it takes noob ships forever to take poses down poses are removed and there is no more Sov. All skill books are removed from the game because everything over a noob frigate **es Goons and other whiners off and where do we end up? We end up with EVERYONE leaving EVE and playing upcoming games because the only people who like noob frigate blobs are Goons. Then blobs get nerfed which is followed by CCP getting a total and utter nerf right down to bankruptcy, all thanks to the immense ridiculous and childish whining. I can't build a Titan nerf them!!1whine! My fleet got DD'd and now we're broke and can't hold our space anymore because we never were able to hold it in the first place!11!losers! Nerf Titans because they're so easy to train for and build that everyone in EvE has at least 5 of these things!1!give-me-attention-please! Nerf Titans because this isn't cap ship online and we should all be flying noob ships anyway!!1stfu-leave-EVE-!1! Nerf EVEYRYTHING because I think my voice carries more weight than everyone elses as I lack attention and am too childish to admit I'm just posting here because my parents never loved me and any attention is better than none!!www.whineaboutnothing.com1 Have I missed anything and anyone whining about a game they can leave? Now please stop these extremely childish whine and cry threads about nothing. If you don't like the game leave and don't come back, all the little children complaining about everything just isn't going to get things done the way you want them to and you will be resisted fiercely. Las call for the nerf whine train departing on platform STFU. All those attention ***s can board the train leaving for WoW now. Please have your complaint at hand while boarding and do leave your luggage behind at the counter 'can I have your stuff?'. Thank you very much and kthxbye. Thanks for these insightful comments about game balance and design. Now get out.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.09 21:17:00 - [27] Edited by: HydroSan on 09/05/2008 21:18:50 Originally by: Knoetje If it's Titans field Dreads and Carriers. Can't field them? Leave 0 until you can. I'm going to bold this just so you can read it a little easier. The point is that even if you can field your own dreads and carriers, subcapitals become pointless. One ship should not render every shiptype below it useless. Battleships were nerfed and balanced so they couldn't one-shot orbiting frigates because it made flying anything below a battleship stupid. The same must be done to Titans. Why should people who fly battleships, battlecruisers, recons and the like be told to go home because they don't own a certain shiptype and therefore have no place in the game? Why should their ONLY role be to get blown up by a bunch of guys mashing F1 until their fireworks go off? How is this balanced? Why should game balance revolve around 50-60 people in big spaceships mashing F1?
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.10 04:42:00 - [28] Edited by: HydroSan on 10/05/2008 04:42:43 I think you've forgotten that this is a game and CCP has a responsibility to make it fun for more than 1000 of the 20,000 people who live in 0.0. Or that other alliances other than "crybaby goons" also have concern over how many Titans are being used in combat, including "non-blobbing" alliances like KIA. Some of our long time enemies are even agreeing with us "horrible blobber noobs" on this. Why can't you see this? Oh, right. You're a troll. Get the hell out.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.10 07:23:00 - [29] Edited by: HydroSan on 10/05/2008 07:24:28 Originally by: Knoetje I won't get out. I want Minmatar and Amarr nerfed so can we do that while we're on the nerf cry train? Do you have any rationale, situations or theories for wanting these races nerfed? Do you have an evidence to support these claims? Do you have anyone who will back up your claims? Do you have any experience to justify these claims? This forum is for the discussion of game mechanics and balancing issues. If you cannot add anything to this topic without trolling, you do not belong in this forum. If you wish to troll us because of what alliance tag we have displayed, please go to this forum instead - we don't need non-contributors attempting to troll their way out of rational arguments in this forum.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.11 06:37:00 - [30] Originally by: Jitabug Given that Heavy Neuts and Tech II drones have a similar impact on frigate class vessels, as Titan's have to BS, can we have battleships removed too? This game is turning into battleships online. A single battleship with heavy neuts and T2 drones cannot solo an entire fleet of frigates.

HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.11 16:17:00 - [31] Edited by: HydroSan on 11/05/2008 16:19:46 So it looks like the alt brigade has a new song: OMG CRUISER SOLO FRIGATE The fact remains that a cruiser does not have a 250km omnidirection 70k damage smartbomb that can be fired by mashing a single button repeatedly until it fires. A cruiser must be fit properly, get into position of the frigate, probably web the frigate unless it's a HAC sniper, and then turn on all of his modules. If the frigate has other friends, he must have a tank and deal with those too, or gank enough of them before his tank runs dry. The cruiser has to use tactics. It has to be completely aware of everything shooting at it. It has to know if x-number of frigates can break his tank before he can gank enough of them. Warping to a covops and mashing F1 until a big fireworks display comes from your ship is not tactics. Having seven buddies that do the same thing at the same time is not tactics: it's blobbing. The anti-blob ship has turned into the ship that people use to blob itself. Ironic, isn't it? Why should I have to play "Dodge The Dictor" while my enemy can just warp in expensive ships and try to one-shot my entire fleet repeatedly? How is it fair that I have to have some kind of clairvoyance in order to survive while the Titan pilot just has to see if ships are <250km from him and then mash a button and watch the killmails roll in? Why should spending a certain amount of ISK allow you to break the balance of the game?
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.11 16:54:00 - [32] Edited by: HydroSan on 11/05/2008 16:53:46 Originally by: Marcus Gideon Because it's not only the ISK they spent for the Titan and DDD, along with all the other mods they have installed. It's they year+++ they spent training to be able to use it. You want to make a month old alt comparable with a 5 year veteran. You seem to be confused. This isn't WoW. This is EVE Online. Whoever has the highest level should not be given an I-Win button (or multiple I-Win buttons) simply because they've powergamed hard enough to come into possession of ships that can one-shot entire fleets. This isn't good for game balance, it isn't fun, and it doesn't promote tactics or warfare. If you want a game where you can just poopsock and then become an unstoppable one-man-killing-machine then I suggest you sell your EVE characters, pick up a WoW character and grind yourself retarded.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.11 20:02:00 - [33] Originally by: Marcus Gideon Arguing about 8 Titans is rediculous, because there are 8 of them. No amount of whining will save you from 8 nuclear weapons going off in your backyard. But striking at the owners might. So find out where these folks are keeping those 8 Titans, and take them out where they live. Or get out of 0.0 so they can't use this advantage over you. Take out where they live... how? By sieging their space and running into 8 titans? You're confusing the chicken and the egg. As for "if you don't have 8 titans get out of 0.0" comment... I don't have anything to say to that. Try to remember that this is a game and CCP has a responsibility to keep it balanced so it remains fun; for both the attacking force who have nothing to do as their friends fire off 8 nukes, and the defending force who can't do anything about it.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.11 21:23:00 - [34] Edited by: HydroSan on 11/05/2008 21:23:24 Originally by: Marcus Gideon Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 11/05/2008 21:00:18 Alright... if DDD affects everyone, then their fleet should be dying too. If they're running first, that should be a clue to you what's coming. Two sniper fleets 140km away from each other. Fleet 1 <---140km---> Fleet 2 All you have to do is warp the Titan blob 200km behind Fleet 2 and set off your nukes: well out of range of Fleet 1, and well out of striking distance of Fleet 2, not that they would have time to react between "TITANS ON GRID" and the Titan pilots setting off their fireworks two seconds later. Fleet 1 <---140km---> Fleet 2 <---200km---> Titan Blob And there you have it: how to one-shot an entire fleet.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.15 00:55:00 - [35] Originally by: Jimmy Cliff If you have problems fighting a Titan, bring in your own Titan! You can't fight bombs with bb-guns! You need weapons of similar sizes. Titans don't fight Titans. Titans fight anything not a capital ship. If both sides have multiple Titans you may as well tell your support fleet to log off because they're not going to do anything except get blasted by multiple doomsdays. The point is that subcapitals are being made worthless under the current capital ship mechanics. Everything from frigates to T2-fitted Battleships are affected by this. Everything from interceptors to faction-fitted command ships is affected by this. ANYONE WHO DOESN'T FLY A CAPITAL IS AFFECTED BY THIS. How much clearer can I make it?
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.15 06:07:00 - [36] Originally by: Endrain titan= gun anything else= knife Never bring a knife to a gun fight get the idea This is a video game. Let that sink in for a little bit.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.20 05:47:00 - [37] ~bump~ The above are trolls who don't understand what they're talking about. And to counter any "GS LOST A TITAN" bullcrap, our Titan was alone without a supporting fleet. Of course it died. End of story. This thread is about stacking 5+ titans on each other which is becoming the norm, not about lone Titans getting sacked.

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