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lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.04.24 12:26:00 - [1] Edited by: lecrotta on 24/04/2008 13:44:10 Originally by: stinger7 Stop exaggerating and going all emo it makes you look like a moron. Reducing the DDD to 150km will stop eve from turning into a zerg to win game while removing the titans ability to easily destroy sniper fleets or sit on top of cyno jammers to easily defend them. Originally by: HydroSan Because it's not like Titans can move or anything. So what... its about positioning your assets on the field bud and making large scale warfare with titans more tactical than having them sit on top of a jammers and popping off DDD every few minutes. Yes titans can move but then so can everybody else's ships so the DDD needs to be moved into position for it to be of any use instead of just sitting in a spot and wiping out entire fleets of fools who get close to it. A range reduction would allow BS to shoot them outside of DDD range while still allowing them to be a good anti zerg ship, but then this seems to be about allowing your alliance to zerg space more than a broken game mechanic.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.04.24 17:02:00 - [2] Edited by: lecrotta on 24/04/2008 17:04:09 They are to good at being anti blob weapons atm as the only thing that can survive multi DDD blasts are other capital ships . From my experience of fighting with titans and against then i have to say that they will stop skilless blobbing (zerging) in crappy ships if the DDD is reduced to 150km or so as commanders will need to position there fleets and assets instead of just warping them in at optimal and f1-f8.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:59:00 - [3] Edited by: lecrotta on 24/04/2008 20:00:24 Originally by: Alice Atphosea Could a developer please respond to the issues raised in this thread before the one-man alt-corp posters who continuously spout off "ANTI-BLOB" and "ANTI-ZERG" rhetoric without fleshing out or explaining ANY of their points or rationale overtake this thread? Thank you. Theres no need for anybody to explain it you all you need do is read back in the thread as it has already been explained. That is of course if your tactical knowledge and experience in large scale fleet operation with titans is not sufficient to figure it out for your self.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.04.24 20:43:00 - [4] Edited by: lecrotta on 24/04/2008 20:54:49 I do not need to justify or prove anything to you or anybody else for that matter although my experience comes from leading (on one of my main's) more fleet actions than i can even begin to count including titans on my side and against them. Although your sort of "go after the poster if you cannot handle or disprove the post" attitude belongs on CAOD. Your problem is that you want ccp to remove titans/DDD from the game as they prevent the type of zerg warfare that you wish to use in eve. While myself and others are quite willing to see some sort of reduction in regards to the DDD but are unwilling to see it totally removed as it prevents any group or groups from spamming T1 cruiser or frigate gangs to take or hold space. Now as myself and others have said reducing the DDD to 150km will allow them to remain useful against those who wish to conquer eve with blobs of T1 crap but also leave them vulnerable to well led sniper wings/fleets.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.04.25 08:18:00 - [5] Originally by: HydroSan more pro zerg comments and alt insults Even if i could post with one of my mains accounts instead of a cyno alts spare slot i would not simply because you would focus on the person not the point. Your ideas as usual favor goons style of "blob T1 crap to win" so much that if things are moved in the direction you want we would see more of the coalition style warfare that we did last year only ppl will fly cheap rubbish. What would be the point of flying dreads or carriers or even battleships when you can put ppl in fitted ships that cost less than their clones and just spam them into systems over and over until you have worn down the ppl your fighting. This is the future you want for eve and it always has been from day one. You claim its for the betterment of eve but the truth is its for the betterment of goons and nobody else, now you claim to have ad be a expert on fleet and titan warfare so if you cannot see the opportunities that a DDD that is reduced to 150km or so would bring a good FC then its only because you do not want to and thats your decision and narrow mindedness or lack of skill/gamr knowledge il let you decide witch.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.04.25 19:32:00 - [6] Edited by: lecrotta on 25/04/2008 19:36:25 Originally by: HydroSan My "only" point is that even with your own capital fleet and Titans support fleets are entirely nullified. Conventional fleets are absolutely useless when both sides have multiple Titans. You say there would be "one heck of a fight": of course there would be. Between the capital ships. The conventional ships just may as well log off because they're not going to fire a shot off before they eat 70k HP of damage. As i have clearly stated over and over again and you seem to keep ignoring in your haste to reduce eve to a t1 blobbing game, reducing the DDD to a range of around 150km will give conventional fleets a big enough window to attack along with whatever capital assets you bring. Unless you are still going to warp inside that 150km with your conventional ships in which case you deserve to die.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.04.26 09:42:00 - [7] Originally by: HydroSan Okay I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and present to you an entirely plausible situation assuming we go by your 150km doomsday nerf theory. My alliances has ten Titans. I keep five on grid in a group and five off grid at a POS. My enemy warps in at 190km within T2 battleship sniper range. If they primary a Titan, it can absorb up to 7k DPS sustainably due to officer mods and officer cap rechargers. Meanwhile, I use my three dictor alts to bubble the enemy battleship fleet and warp in my five remaining Titans into them and set off three doomsdays: their entire fleet is dead. Second scenario: my enemy wishes to take down a cyno jammer. They must either come in point blank in remote repping high-DPS battleships or go out to sniping range with T2 snipers. I warp in my four dictor alts, bubble them, and have five of my Titans warp in and doomsday: their entire fleet is dead. You entire theory fails to take into account both Titan stacking and the fact that Titans can warp, jump, cloak and move. What happens when alliances get 15 Titans, which is at most six months away at this rate? Just keep five Titans in little blobs at every possible approach vector and you've got a system which is a complete subcapital killzone. Let's just hope CCP doesn't share your "go capital or go home" approach. My skillpoints, my player skill, my ship, my modules and the skill of the FC MEAN ABSOLUTELY NOTHING when the enemy can Right Click -> Warp to Member and press F1 to wipe me out. Post with your ******* main. I see once again your idea about titans/DDD being broken relies heavily on: 1. Your members being total morons and not being able to align there ships for some reason. 2. Your leaders/scouts not having a clue what so ever about how to use a scanner and checking for incoming dictors. 3. Your smaller support not popping incoming dictors. 4. Your cloaked titans dropping cloak and virtually insta warping to the grid point so it can pop its load before also getting scanned and allowing your snipers to warp away and come in at another angle. (cos titans are fast at warping just like interceptors hey bud). 5. Once again you do not include your own capital fleet in any of the equation's and scenarios as im sure they could easily deal with the 7k sustained dps tank while laughing at the DDD. 6. Not only that but having capital support on grid or in the area would make most titan pilots think carefully about just casually warping in and dropping a load. Now every one of you so called scenarios as usual rely totally on your fleet commanders, scouts and members being total morons and not only that but you scenarios are utterly unrealistic as they rely on titans being able to buzz about like a interceptor. For somebody who claims to be a expert on titans and fleet warfare you are either being deliberately dense or you just suck at what you claim to know about.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.04.27 10:19:00 - [8] Edited by: lecrotta on 27/04/2008 10:24:22 Originally by: Draygo Korvan I had to reply because just wow, are you ever so blind. 1) He said the fleet was bubbled, you can be aligned all you want but it wont matter because you cant warp. Im not blind, you did not HAVE to reply and i said you could be aligned in response cos you can warp out faster before you get bubbled. Originally by: Draygo Korvan 2) How do you use a scanner to check for incoming dictors when there are 15 in your scan results every time, some on grid some off grid. Preventing a dictor from warping in and dropping a bubble is pretty much not feasable unless you want to keep warping your fleet out and never getting anything done. You obviously have no idea how to use scanners properly in large fleet ops, get some training off ppl who know how. Originally by: Draygo Korvan 3) Tell me which small support can tank pos guns easily, and pop a dictor fast enough. And anti dictor ships wont be able to pop any dictors in warp till they come out of warp. So if your enemy uses a covops they could easily get a 0km warpin on your bs fleet. Who says the pos is gonna be shooting at all the small support? even if it is manned.. or have enough time to pop them all even if the gunners do shoot at them before the jammer goes down?..heres a hint they warp out as individuals as the pos targets them. Originally by: Draygo Korvan 4) why would they have to cloak, they can simply just be aligned. Aligned in space so you can probe them down and gank them or aligned in a pos so you can see them warp and tell your snipers to warp out?. Originally by: Draygo Korvan 5)You cannot have caps in a cyno-jammed system unless you had them there before the cyno jammer went up, or logged off after you knocked down the cyno jammer on a previous attempt. So this point is irrelevent Originally by: Draygo Korvan 6) Cant have caps, see cynojammer, cyno jammers prevent cynos. The only other way to get caps in is through a jump bridge, which requires sov Originally by: Draygo Korvan 7) If you dont have a cap fleet in system you cant use it can you? This thread was about multiple titans and there DDD being unkillable not them and the cyno jammers together. Although with the DDD reduced to 150km a jammer take down is now very doable but still a risky and exciting/entertaining operation. Im sorry if you cannot turn on eve to easy mode but perhaps you should try another game, WOW perhaps cos you know if you die there you get to keep all your stuff.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.04.28 10:51:00 - [9] Edited by: lecrotta on 28/04/2008 10:53:54 Originally by: Chomapuraku burning out of a bubble only works when you're not lagged out in a giant fleet fight. and even if you can burn out of that bubble, telling your ship to warp and having the server receive you request to do so before the titan comes onto grid and spams the DDD button is still a big if i've always thought that gang links should only work on the same grid as the gang-booster. otherwise, you can just sit at a pos and boost your gang remotely. the new DDD would apply only to friendlies on-grid, and in the same squad (not the whole wing or fleet.) huge bonus to the capabilities of the support fleet, speeds up the fight, puts everyone at risk, and makes you have to fight for your victory, not just use broken game mechanics and having you and three friends push the i-win button at the same time poke holes in the specifics i pointed out, but regardless, the design philosophy i'd employ for the titan is a ship that doesn't have an i-win button, extends the capabilities of its fleet, and makes the fight more fun for all involved, rather than the current system where you warp in, maybe load one or two frames after the grid, lose your ship in 1-2 successive doomsdays, then wake up in station after the third one. MAKE THE TITAN MAKE FIGHTS MORE FUN FOR ALL INVOLVED. my idea of a good time is not a single ship that neutralizes the entire enemy fleet before they can fly in, get on some killmails, and have fun. we all get popped in battle, it would just be nice if there wasn't a ship that ends the fight before it starts So lag makes ppl unable to get out of a bubble or activate modules/mwd and get away from a DDD but in the next breath you say that the titan should be a big gang mod kinda ship that gives huge bonuses to the same lagged out ships that cannot activate mods in the first place?.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.05.02 11:16:00 - [10] I love the way ppl claim that multiple titans are unkillable, but then go on to list the other things needed to make them unkillable. Like a active cyno jammer or no hostile capital fleet in system or the other side having titans or the multiple titans needing to be active 23/7 to guard the jammers and on and on and on...............................
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.05.03 01:47:00 - [11] Edited by: lecrotta on 03/05/2008 01:48:14 Originally by: Angelonico Originally by: lecrotta I love the way ppl claim that multiple titans are unkillable, but then go on to list the other things needed to make them unkillable. Like a active cyno jammer or no hostile capital fleet in system or the other side having titans or the multiple titans needing to be active 23/7 to guard the jammers and on and on and on............................... Read. Think. Then post. Multiple titans in a cynojammed system ontop of the jammer/deathstar are unkillable. Not simply multiple titans. No one disputes this. READ OP (as it says nothing about jammers). THINK. THEN TROLL No need to nerf the titans then just reduce the range of the ddd to 150km or so, as it solves the problems you listed if you have a good fc.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.05.06 01:52:00 - [12] Edited by: lecrotta on 06/05/2008 01:53:16 Originally by: HydroSan I'm just going to take an excerpt from the description CCP gave EVE on Steam Quote: PvP (Player vs. Player) based on strategy, not levels - Tactics have value in EVE Online. Experience and treachery will often beat top-of-the-line modifications and fancy ships. Why should Titans break this rule?. Why should we abandon balance in favor of whoever has the most amount of cash? They do not break the rule they encourage it on a massively greater scale, they force ppl to use tactics, strategy, fleet combat experience and even spying(treachery) to kill a titan or at least take systems off alliances that have titans. Just because you cannot be bothered to, do not have the skill to or want to take the risk of losing high isk value assets to kill high isk value assets does not mean they need nerfing. Why should we want eve 0.0 space holding or taking combat to be turned into several thousand morons in friggies and cruisers spamming blob after blob into a system just to gain a bit of space.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.05.06 11:43:00 - [13] Originally by: HydroSan Originally by: lecrotta They do not break the rule they encourage it on a massively greater scale, they force ppl to use tactics, strategy, fleet combat experience and even spying(treachery) to kill a titan or at least take systems off alliances that have titans. Just because you cannot be bothered to, do not have the skill to or want to take the risk of losing high isk value assets to kill high isk value assets does not mean they need nerfing. Why should we want eve 0.0 space holding or taking combat to be turned into several thousand morons in friggies and cruisers spamming blob after blob into a system just to gain a bit of space. If you cannot restrain yourself from trolling (ie: continuously spouting "t1 friggie/cruisers" even though the doomsday does not discriminate between a frigate and a T2 sniping battleship) I'm going to have to start reporting your posts. Please remain on topic. Did you only read those 2 words and ignore the rest cos you cannot answer them?. Report me if you must but i think they will laugh at you cos your the one spouting the same troll over and over while ignoring ppls solutions. I suppose reporting me instead of answering me is your way so i will forgive you for it, as going str8 for a meta solution has always been your kinds style. But the fact remains that a 150km DDD would allow snipers to take down a jammer outside the range of a DDD (if positioned correctly) thus allowing capital assets into a system. Not only that but also giving them opportunities to help take down a titan outside of DDD range as well. The only ships that would find it hard or near imposable to kill a titan would be "friggie and cruisers" blob spams. Lets face it if the DDD is removed what would be the point of flying a 200+ mil t2 sniper ship?...i can fly 50 T1 cruisers for the same cost in isk and be considerably more effective in them than in a single t2 BS. It will stop being eve online at that point and become zerg online instead hhmmm i wonder what alliance is renowned for that type of warfare.....
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.05.06 13:40:00 - [14] Originally by: lecrotta Did you only read those 2 words and ignore the rest cos you cannot answer them?. Report me if you must but i think they will laugh at you cos your the one spouting the same troll over and over while ignoring ppls solutions. I suppose reporting me instead of answering me is your way so i will forgive you for it, as going str8 for a meta solution has always been your kinds style. But the fact remains that a 150km DDD would allow snipers to take down a jammer outside the range of a DDD (if positioned correctly) thus allowing capital assets into a system. Not only that but also giving them opportunities to help take down a titan outside of DDD range as well. And you have yet to give a good reason why not apart from saying that titans can warp in and blow the DDD (an easily avoidable tactic tbh and hardly proof the ship is broken) in fact that proves the titan is not broken as it need tactics and timing to gain any kills or be effective. The only ships that would find it hard or near imposable to kill a titan would be "friggie and cruisers" blob spams. Lets face it if the DDD is removed what would be the point of flying a 200+ mil t2 sniper ship?...i can fly 50 T1 cruisers for the same cost in isk and be considerably more effective in them than in a single t2 BS. It will stop being eve online at that point and become zerg online instead hhmmm i wonder what alliance is renowned for that type of warfare..... If T1 "friggie + cruiser" swarm style warfare now has a counter (the titans DDD) then i suggest you try to use *"strategy, not swarming* - Tactics. Experience and treachery" instead of claiming that the game is broken just cos you cannot be bothered. Defeating multiple titans should be a thrilling and exciting in game tactical challenge to a commander and pvper not a reason to go crying to ccp (again) for another nerf. Originally by:** Draygo Korvan Look at how stupid i am. I totally fail to understand your point about a pilot being able to spam fifty t1 cruisers into a system for the price of one t2 BS. I am so moronic that i did not realize that you were talking about each pilot being able to bring 50 cruisers one at a time with 300 or so of his buddies and actualy thought you meant him bringing fifty himself all at the same time. Im such a fool for thinking that a 150km ddd is the same as a 250 or 350km ddd as my idea of combat seems to be sitting still in range and f1-f8 until he pops or i do. Totally ignoring the fact that a ddd at 150km max range a sniper can hit the titan safely but will also need to be aligned just in case of a warp in. I have no idea about the difference between zerging (ie: spamming low value ships over and over to achieve a objective) and large scale fleet ops (ie: capitals and other expensive asset to kill high value assets/ achieve objectives. Just to summerise i am clueless. Fixed.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.05.06 13:45:00 - [15] Originally by: Seishi Maru I really hate DD, and would love them to be changed into something different. But I beg to disagree. If range was droped to 150 km then titans would be vulnerable to a Fleet of Battleships well deployed. Problem continues that.. 10 Titans would not be. Why wouldn't 10 be vulnerable??? if you check bud it would take considerably more than 10 titans with 150km DDD to make a 200km or so dead zone around any object (like a jammer) when snipers can easily hit at 200km. Not only would there be huge gaps for the snipers to warp in and hit the target but as soon as the jammer fell those titans would be considerably out of position and vulnerable to not only the snipers or to a hostile capital fleet.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.05.06 19:20:00 - [16] Edited by: lecrotta on 06/05/2008 19:31:32 Originally by: HydroSan Originally by: lecrotta Why wouldn't 10 be vulnerable??? if you check bud it would take considerably more than 10 titans with 150km DDD to make a 200km or so dead zone around any object (like a jammer) when snipers can easily hit at 200km. Not only would there be huge gaps for the snipers to warp in and hit the target but as soon as the jammer fell those titans would be considerably out of position and vulnerable to not only the snipers but also to a hostile capital fleet. It becomes a cat and mouse game of "dodge the dictor swarm" as your enemy sends a two dozen interdictors at your fleet, attempting to bubble your battleships so they can warp at point blank and quad-DD them. Hey guys, we need to be on Grid X at X Time with that hostile POS because it's the only way to destroy the jammer/take down the tower itself! Even assuming a 150km nerf, all it would mean is more Titans being produced: four on the tower so you're REQUIRED to hit out to T2 sniper ranges, and then have your remaining eight off grid ready to warp to the dictors when they get ten bubbles up on the battleships. In the end you fail at sieging the tower because all your enemy does it continuously try to one-shot your entire fleet. A game of cat and mouse??..thats like a game of tactical maneuvering, of having spies listening in on the movements of said titans or tacklers?. Plus its only the jammer that needs to be taken down by BS only as after that you can use capitals and i doubt that many titan pilots will wish to try one shotting your ships with a capital/dread fleet around. Plus the fact that dictoring your fleet, warping in a titan and popping a DDD can be done with 1, 2 or 3 titans having 12 or more makes no difference. So now we have gone from a omg wtf unkillable/unbeatable group of 12 titans, to a bunch of 12 titans that need your guys not only to be tackled but if they miss a tackle are very much out of position and vulnerable to your fleet (although im not sure why 4 on the jammer are needed or how you think that those 4 can make a sniper fleet come in at t2 ranges on a 3d grid). Now maybe in the future when alliances have 20+ titans things may need to be looked at in regards to limiting the number of DDD blasts per grid or system or considering the way ppl nap it may even be a issue now but the fact is that removing the DDD dmg totaly is a huge mistake.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.05.06 19:41:00 - [17] Originally by: Draygo Korvan Originally by: Seishi Maru I really hate DD, and would love them to be changed into something different. But I beg to disagree. If range was droped to 150 km then titans would be vulnerable to a Fleet of Battleships well deployed. Problem continues that.. 10 Titans would not be. Stopable with on grid bubbles maybe, 150km range is where bubbles will pull you out of warp, so a warping in titan with an optimum defensive bubble placement will still be in dd range of your fleet. However a fleet of battleships alone will not kill a titan with a pilot operating it. So saying a titan is vunerable to a fleet of battleships is simply not true. Its only vunerable if caps hostile to the titan can be deployed against that titan. Saying they would be vunerable at 150km is a misnomer because you cant stop the titan from getting within that range in the first place right out of warp. For the range reduction to work it would have to be lower than the maximum bubble pull range, like 60km or 30km. Note when I use the word vunerable, I mean at risk to be destroyed by. Shrikes titan in 9-9 was attacked by a huge mixed fleet that grew to around 250 pilots or greater, yet they could not break the titans tank until dreads loaded grid and entered siege. So no, a titan is not vunerable to a support fleet. With a lower than 150 km dd range it would be possible to use dictors to prevent titans from getting right ontop of your fleet, by making sure there are bubbles up inbetween the fleet and the current location of the titan that would pull the titan out of warp out of dd range. Well at least your actually thinking of ways to kill it after a range reduction instead of repeating a blinkered rant like others. And im sure a 250 man or larger support/BS fleet can break the tank of a titan if you do not bring shuttles or noob ships and the like, but tbh that does not matter as if the jammer is hit instead of the titan then your caps can join the fun.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.05.06 20:16:00 - [18] Edited by: lecrotta on 06/05/2008 20:21:36 Originally by: HydroSan Titans were designed as anti-blob ships. The problem with "anti-blob" is that "blobs" are not discriminated against according to their numbers. A Titan can take out a group of T2 snipers. It can take out a lone frigate. It can take out a roaming HAC gang. It has turned from anti-blob into anti-warfare, and whoever doesn't have at least four has absolutely no chance in surviving in 0.0. I did not say they were not a problem in fact ive said again and again they need changing but to remove them instead of reducing them would be a huge mistake. Like i have already said removing the DDD would make BS in large fleet ops a pointless and overly expensive ship as i along with 2 or 300 of my buddies could buy 50 t1 cruisers for the same price and just keep spamming fleets into a system until we wear down the enemy. Nothing can and nothing will ever really stop ppl from blobbing but the titan and a 150km ddd and maybe limiting the amount of DDD fired per grid per day/hour will force ppl to bring there own capitals, super capitals and BS if they want to take space, instead of spamming t1 friggie and cruiser crap (ie: zerging).
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.05.06 22:50:00 - [19] Edited by: lecrotta on 06/05/2008 22:54:16 Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg lag blah blah lag blah blah I am not interested in getting into a argument that relies on the fickle lag gods working totally in your favor and utterly against your enemy to give it credibility. In fact im not interested in anything anybody has to say on tactical issues if the invoke lag as anything other than a constant tactical issue that should alway be taken into account but not as a card blanch for one side or another.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.05.08 14:27:00 - [20] Originally by: Maraleith Personally, I would INCREASE the doomsday effect, shorten the warning time to 10 seconds but REDUCE the area of effect. That is, if you are within 30km, it hits you and you're in anything less than a capital ship; you're dead. That way it becomes a very powerful weapon but it a very vulnerable ship. Multiple doomsdays are horrifically lethal but they do not make battleship POS attacks impossible. Yes, the doomsday is lethal but you stand a chance of avoiding it. At 30km i think every ship in the game fitted for range could avoid it making it worthless but at 100-150km it would still be a real threat to clueless morons but also provide tactical solutions for both sides.

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