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Julius Romanus
Fatalix Inc.
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.01 16:02:00 -
[61]
Thats all well and good. But what eve needs is to hack into any attached video imput devices(camera, webcam, spy satalite) and take a picture of the look on the person face when their pod makes the squish noise.
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For Medicinal Use Only. |
Firkragg
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Posted - 2008.04.01 16:07:00 -
[62]
 Originally by: Wet Ferret
Originally by: Erotic Irony
I never understood the inconsistency between this and rigs on mails. Shouldn't we be rewarded for catching pods? The argument that it encourages griefing is spurious. See my old thread in my sig for reasons.
It's because rigs have material value.
If I bought a candy bar, then ate it, you might agree that it is no longer worth anything. If I was just carrying it around in my pocket it would still have value, however.
Even if you eat it there is still a value to you. The candy bar is making you less hungry and providing energy. Same logic applies to implants. While there is no value to anyone else once they are plugged in they are still having value to you (because you paid for the effects not the implants themselves obviously).
[url=http://killboard.outbreak-eve.com/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=48203]
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Cpt's Accountant
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Posted - 2008.04.01 16:16:00 -
[63]
Not signed.
Alot of players work their ass off to come up with their own setups (implants included). This would reveal too much information.
I can see how alot of lesser pilots would like this though.
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Wet Ferret
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.04.01 16:30:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Firkragg
Even if you eat it there is still a value to you. The candy bar is making you less hungry and providing energy. Same logic applies to implants. While there is no value to anyone else once they are plugged in they are still having value to you (because you paid for the effects not the implants themselves obviously).
I realize that, but the value I was referring to is the value that some people claim that they want to gauge when they kill a pod; ie: the monetary / trade value. It's the simple fact that you cannot inflict monetary damage on someone by destroying something that has no monetary value, even if it once had monetary value.
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Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild
Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2008.04.01 17:02:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Cpt's Accountant
Not signed.
Alot of players work their ass off to come up with their own setups (implants included). This would reveal too much information.
I can see how alot of lesser pilots would like this though.
/signed for exactly that reason.
If we already know what rigs and modules the pilot was using, why not implants? Knowing that an annoying nano-pilot has just lost a full set of Snakes and will likely be not quite as nano-ed in the near future is valuable intel. Epeen stroking and extra smack talking will also come with it, that's unavoidable, but from a balance and utility standpoint I've always been suprised that it's not in the game already.
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"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Rhaegor Stormborn
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Posted - 2008.04.01 17:08:00 -
[66]
/signed
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Volition Cult Recruitment Post |
Hans Viktor
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Posted - 2008.04.01 17:34:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Cpt's Accountant
Not signed.
Alot of players work their ass off to come up with their own setups (implants included). This would reveal too much information.
I can see how alot of lesser pilots would like this though.
It's not like these players are creating their own mods, there is only so much you can do with a ship, and eve provides you with all the options and info you need. Killmails already show you all this, if they want the setup, they plug it into EFT and adjust implants and mods as they see fit.
Don't forget, if that setup was so good, how come you got the guys pod?
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EvilSpork
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.04.01 18:35:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Lipix
/Signed, should have been implemented long ago.
this.
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Crazy Tasty
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.04.01 19:46:00 -
[69]
/signed
On top of that I'd like to see ship scanners work on pods. Would make ransoming pods much easier if I could see their implants beforehand.
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Originally by: Garmon
people using warp core stabilizers are generally more skilled than people not using warp corer stabilizers
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Paddington
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.04.01 20:00:00 -
[70]
/signed
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Vanna Phi
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.04.01 20:07:00 -
[71]
a must imho
/signed @ID
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Vanessa Vale
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.04.01 20:38:00 -
[72]
Unsigning again since the mods decided to gag me for some unspecified reason.
Not only this idea doesn't add anything other than e-peen, but it stinks of OP wanting to pad his killboard stats because he can't kill anything else than pods.
And yes, that is bad. Not because the OP wants to do it, I couldn't care less, but because look what killmails have done to the game. Look all those more people who wont go out on a suicide t1 fitted cruiser because they don't want to screw up their stats, or those pointless k/d discussions and screwed up statistics.
So no, adding more crap to the game to satisfy the epeen necessities of a few is a bad idea.
Minmatar Boost Brigade |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.04.01 21:11:00 -
[73]
Quote:
It's the simple fact that you cannot inflict monetary damage on someone by destroying something that has no monetary value, even if it once had monetary value.
Your analysis is incorrect. If you destroy something that has no monetary value, but the victim must spend money to replace it, you've still inflicted monetary damage.
Anywya, how is this different than rigs?
Rigs installed on a ship have monetary value if you decide to sell the ship, but cannot be removed without destroying them.
Implants insatlled on a character have monetary value if you decide to sell the character, but cannot be removed without destroying them.
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Ephemeron
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.01 21:21:00 -
[74]
This information will not change the way people fight.
Does this information have any usefulness besides additional excuse to taunt your enemies?
Normally I'm all for extra info, but I receive enough hate mail for just losing faction mods in pvp, I don't want to hear more crap about my implants.
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Erotic Irony
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Posted - 2008.04.01 21:40:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Erotic Irony on 01/04/2008 21:40:59
Originally by: Ephemeron
This information will not change the way people fight.
Does this information have any usefulness besides additional excuse to taunt your enemies?
Normally I'm all for extra info, but I receive enough hate mail for just losing faction mods in pvp, I don't want to hear more crap about my implants.
Sure it will change the way people fight, if the implant doesn't show up only you know it was lost and quietly take satisfaction in knowing what your enemy doesn't; namely that he destroyed more than he think he did. As far the kb is concerned, no implants were lost and your ratio remains intact--given the scope and power of fullgrade sets this isn't a minor advantage or sum of isk you lose when podded and you know that very well.
Given that pos mods were converted to mails for the attackers for no other reason than consistency, there is no valid reason not to extend this consistency toward implants given that rigs appear as well.
The issue with you and having snakes has long been a foregone conclusion, when you fly nothing but officer and fully faction machs, its pretty clear you're implanted and a high value target. If you're worried about being harangued on your killboard by ernest and friends, disable comments or don't use snakes.
___
Eve Players are not very smart.
Support Killmail Overhaul
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Ephemeron
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Posted - 2008.04.01 22:13:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Erotic Irony
Edited by: Erotic Irony on 01/04/2008 21:40:59
Originally by: Ephemeron
This information will not change the way people fight.
Does this information have any usefulness besides additional excuse to taunt your enemies?
Normally I'm all for extra info, but I receive enough hate mail for just losing faction mods in pvp, I don't want to hear more crap about my implants.
Sure it will change the way people fight, if the implant doesn't show up only you know it was lost and quietly take satisfaction in knowing what your enemy doesn't; namely that he destroyed more than he think he did. As far the kb is concerned, no implants were lost and your ratio remains intact--given the scope and power of fullgrade sets this isn't a minor advantage or sum of isk you lose when podded and you know that very well.
Given that pos mods were converted to mails for the attackers for no other reason than consistency, there is no valid reason not to extend this consistency toward implants given that rigs appear as well.
The issue with you and having snakes has long been a foregone conclusion, when you fly nothing but officer and fully faction machs, its pretty clear you're implanted and a high value target. If you're worried about being harangued on your killboard by ernest and friends, disable comments or don't use snakes.
The kill/death ratio is uneffected. Only the isk ratios are effected.
When I lost 4 billion isk ship in PvP, the killboards list it as only a few hundred mil loss. I often notice how badly killboards deal with prices of nonstandard items. It wouldn't be surprising if killboards listed Snake Omega as 100,000 isk loss.
And I don't get hatemail from friendlies. It's always some hostiles who see me in local and are forced into hiding, I guess they feel a bit angry that I came to disturb their peace and that they can't attack me, so they attack with words from safety. Just your regular smack talk stuff.
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Erotic Irony
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Posted - 2008.04.01 22:21:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Erotic Irony
Edited by: Erotic Irony on 01/04/2008 21:40:59
Originally by: Ephemeron
This information will not change the way people fight.
Does this information have any usefulness besides additional excuse to taunt your enemies?
Normally I'm all for extra info, but I receive enough hate mail for just losing faction mods in pvp, I don't want to hear more crap about my implants.
Sure it will change the way people fight, if the implant doesn't show up only you know it was lost and quietly take satisfaction in knowing what your enemy doesn't; namely that he destroyed more than he think he did. As far the kb is concerned, no implants were lost and your ratio remains intact--given the scope and power of fullgrade sets this isn't a minor advantage or sum of isk you lose when podded and you know that very well.
Given that pos mods were converted to mails for the attackers for no other reason than consistency, there is no valid reason not to extend this consistency toward implants given that rigs appear as well.
The issue with you and having snakes has long been a foregone conclusion, when you fly nothing but officer and fully faction machs, its pretty clear you're implanted and a high value target. If you're worried about being harangued on your killboard by ernest and friends, disable comments or don't use snakes.
The kill/death ratio is uneffected. Only the isk ratios are effected.
When I lost 4 billion isk ship in PvP, the killboards list it as only a few hundred mil loss. I often notice how badly killboards deal with prices of nonstandard items. It wouldn't be surprising if killboards listed Snake Omega as 100,000 isk loss.
And I don't get hatemail from friendlies. It's always some hostiles who see me in local and are forced into hiding, I guess they feel a bit angry that I came to disturb their peace and that they can't attack me, so they attack with words from safety. Just your regular smack talk stuff.
well of course, but what you're describing is a symptom of not being able to verify whether implants were lost not a rationale to avoiding implants on mails
___
Eve Players are not very smart.
Support Killmail Overhaul
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Ephemeron
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Posted - 2008.04.01 22:45:00 -
[78]
What I'm saying is that implants on podmails can only lead to additional smacktalking, it would have absolutely no other impact on the game.
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Erotic Irony
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Posted - 2008.04.01 23:04:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Ephemeron
What I'm saying is that implants on podmails can only lead to additional smacktalking, it would have absolutely no other impact on the game.
smack is smack, nothing will change that but if you play Eve competitively, and I assume CEI does, to measure damage done and create empirical standards vis a vis killboards then implants are the logical continuation of that idea especially in lieu of the cost of pirate full grades but also thanks to the libraries of possible hardwires available--as I said earlier, this things all have value on the market and should be measured.
if you don't play eve at the highest level and still want to have fun, implants on mails still make sense because we can track virtually every other type of destructible
it wont fundamentally alter to logic of combat but it will enhance the gameplay nonetheless for a richer, more complete game
___
Eve Players are not very smart.
Support Killmail Overhaul
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Ephemeron
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Posted - 2008.04.01 23:39:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Ephemeron on 01/04/2008 23:43:31
As I said earlier, even now killboards incorrectly value price of faction loot. So if 1.1 bil mod gets listed on killboard as 300,000 isk mod.. what's the point of asking for implants?
get that crap sorted out before you can make arguments about implants adding value
Also, I want to point out that my financial losses are in no way connected to CEI losses. I'm completely self funded. So putting 1 bil loss for CEI corp because I lost some faction ship would be unfair to them and in reality not effect any of them but me alone.
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velocoraptor
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Posted - 2008.04.01 23:45:00 -
[81]
/signed (long overdue)
Space for hire |
Erotic Irony
0bsession
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Posted - 2008.04.01 23:47:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Erotic Irony on 01/04/2008 23:49:08
Originally by: Ephemeron
As I said earlier, even now killboards incorrectly value price of faction loot. So if 1.1 bil mod gets listed on killboard as 300,000 isk mod.. what's the point of asking for implants?
get that crap sorted out before you can make arguments about implants adding value
as I said above, you can re-edit faction ship and item losses to be approximately current with contract averages, same with implants--the reason no one does it with implants is not because they have no value but because theres no way to tell if they independently verify they were ever there. You seem to be suggesting the authority is the killboard valuations when in fact it is the new killmail system that is slightly more comprehensive but when the killmail is effectively incomplete, it is more than a little partisan to say implants don't matter because the board undervalues them.
Indeed, if implants have no value as you suggest, why use them? Saying they have no value is as silly as saying mined ore is free mins.
Originally by: Eph
Also, I want to point out that my financial losses are in no way connected to CEI losses. I'm completely self funded. So putting 1 bil loss for CEI corp because I lost some faction ship would be unfair to them and in reality not effect any of them but me alone.
It wasn't an ad-hominem, I was with you on you being a serious pvper apart of an ambitious alliance.
___
Eve Players are not very smart.
Support Killmail Overhaul
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Vim
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Posted - 2008.04.02 00:28:00 -
[83]
Not signed.
Already rigs on killmails was a step in the wrong direction, let people figure out their own setups and not streamline the game by handing out 'secrets'. Smug, great word. That is all the people signing this idea is. Little perverts cranking up the speed of the motion of their right hand after a kill to feed their kb stats.
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Erotic Irony
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Posted - 2008.04.02 00:35:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Vim
Not signed.
Already rigs on killmails was a step in the wrong direction, let people figure out their own setups and not streamline the game by handing out 'secrets'. Smug, great word. That is all the people signing this idea is. Little perverts cranking up the speed of the motion of their right hand after a kill to feed their kb stats.
you know this is a game right
___
Eve Players are not very smart.
Support Killmail Overhaul
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Crazy Tasty
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.04.02 00:50:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Erotic Irony
Originally by: Vim
Not signed.
Already rigs on killmails was a step in the wrong direction, let people figure out their own setups and not streamline the game by handing out 'secrets'. Smug, great word. That is all the people signing this idea is. Little perverts cranking up the speed of the motion of their right hand after a kill to feed their kb stats.
you know this is a game right
Qft. If the setup was that uber in the first place, how'd it end up as a killmail?
In all seriousness, there is no valid argument against this. The exact same type of information already exists as rigs/destroyed items on killmails, it almost seems like a bug to not have it on pod killmails to.
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Originally by: Garmon
people using warp core stabilizers are generally more skilled than people not using warp corer stabilizers
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Visko Altertunity
Incorpus CaP
Legion of Honor
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Posted - 2008.04.02 00:59:00 -
[86]
/signed
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Quirc
HeartVenom Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.02 01:28:00 -
[87]
/signed
Probably a good idea, to me it falls under the same thing as rigs.
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Vim
Foundation
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.04.02 01:29:00 -
[88]
Well aware that it is a game which is why the glee some have over killing a trippel rigged battleship sickens me, adding implants to further add to peoples ego stroking and 'haha! (Cartman style) in no way adds to the game aspect/any resemblance to 'sport/game'manship, only bad karma.
Why a 'uber' setup dies? Its not about it being uber, its about trying to gain an extra edge by various riggings that people may not expect; till they've killed you once and in the smoldering pieces of your wreck managed to makeout your customized(rigs) changes to how the ship works?
Rigs should never have been added to kms and hopefully never will implants. Do I care? My implants cost 6-9m and are no secret to anyone, would I love to see wargods podmail with a snakeset listed? No, and I certainly dont want it to be confirmed to add to the 'that dude have snakes/expensive implants lolololo suuucks to be him' spirit that seems to hold many in its grip nowdays, but I understand the cs community to an extent.
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Quirc
HeartVenom Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.02 01:43:00 -
[89]
I don't feel this has anything to do with smacktalking. Yeah, so they get more material. So what, it's just a game anyway, they don't know where you live and this is why we have the Block function.
Seeing what implants were lost lends the sort of insight that seeing the rigs does. Yeah, that means intel. So what? Whatever "secret" you had obviously wasn't enough to keep you alive anyway.
Let's drop these nonsensical arguments of "oh god they'll smack me, nooooo!!!!11" and "ohnoes they know my uber fit" as just that, nonsensical.
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Bloodhands
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Posted - 2008.04.02 05:11:00 -
[90]
I'm in favor and yet not in favor of this. Slot 1-5 is epeen. However slots 6-10 are just as important as rigs, cost similar amounts and serve similar purposes. Someone mentioned pluged in implants are worthless while pluged in rigs aren't. I would like to disagree as one that creates custom toons for people and sells them, a mining toon with a 'Gypsy' KMB-75, and a 'Yeti' BX-2 plugged in sells for more then not.
Rigs serve a purpose and so do hardwirings.
/signed
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