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PvPers outcry! IMPLANTS ON PODMAILS?

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InnerDrive	Posted - 2008.03.31 15:00:00 - [1] Edited by: InnerDrive on 31/03/2008 15:01:46 Somehow the combat log does not include those? Is it possible to make it so we can see what billion isk implants we killed when we expect someone to have pirate sets? (pirate sets can cost like 100x more than the ship the guy was flying) Personaly i fly a interdictor all the time and the only stuff i can solo are ceptors, and i make a lotta pods die all the time. Is it possible to show what implants those pods had on mails? Cheers. ps. sign if you want to see this aswell
RaTTuS	Posted - 2008.03.31 15:13:00 - [2] This is something that should happen -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve & Portrait Server
Omarvelous	Posted - 2008.03.31 15:15:00 - [3] /signed - sometimes the target's tears need a backstory... __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
o0TuNa0o	Posted - 2008.03.31 15:24:00 - [4] Originally by: InnerDrive IMPLANTS ON PODMAILS Now that is a cheeky litte idea. /signed Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Prismaa	Posted - 2008.03.31 16:08:00 - [5] /signed
Lipix	Posted - 2008.03.31 16:08:00 - [6] /Signed, should have been implemented long ago.
ZiggaZig ARR	Posted - 2008.03.31 16:08:00 - [7] would be great. there were rumours this would be implemented but it never happened. /signed
Dingus Rx	Posted - 2008.03.31 16:09:00 - [8] Signed - Cause I want to see what Tri spends on these with all their nano hacs.
Beneerages	Posted - 2008.03.31 16:10:00 - [9] /Signed
4S Alexandra	Posted - 2008.03.31 16:11:00 - [10] /signed
LiLChris06	Posted - 2008.03.31 16:11:00 - [11] /signed
Demtalin le'Mercennaire	Posted - 2008.03.31 16:14:00 - [12] /signed -------- Billy Jean is not my lover
James Lyrus	Posted - 2008.03.31 16:15:00 - [13] What for? Mods on a ship are useful intel. Implants are just shameless ego stoking. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Delrin Blade Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.03.31 16:20:00 - [14] Edited by: Delrin Blade on 31/03/2008 16:21:27 /signed if module info is useful then by default so are the implants which help bonus that ship or you arent seeing a true picture.
Dheorl	Posted - 2008.03.31 16:27:00 - [15] Originally by: Dingus Rx Signed - Cause I want to see what Tri spends on these with all their nano hacs. How much are you expecting out of curiosity? Say, average cost of implants?
Garmon	Posted - 2008.03.31 16:45:00 - [16] Also a type of ship scanner that could scann capsules to see what implants they have, would be nice __________________________________ Garmonation - Rupture fun video
Arazel Chainfire	Posted - 2008.03.31 17:11:00 - [17] It was noted in one of the discussions about the boost patch that they had considered this, but at the time weren't including it, because of some of the points brought up against it. Sorry - but i don't remember where i read it, or the exact quote, or the reasons. -Arazel Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Mutual Incomprehension is one of the Four Horsemen of most internet arguments, I guess, along with Unfettered Hostility, Overwhelming Vagueness, and Lack of Evidence.
Kruel	Posted - 2008.03.31 17:11:00 - [18] Originally by: James Lyrus What for? Mods on a ship are useful intel. Implants are just shameless ego stoking. Exactly! /me wants more shameless ego stroking! Better yet, allow us to salvage corpses and extract implants!
Megan Maynard	Posted - 2008.03.31 17:13:00 - [19] CCP, DO IT. /signed. Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit.
Wet Ferret Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.31 17:17:00 - [20] Originally by: James Lyrus What for? Mods on a ship are useful intel. Implants are just shameless ego stoking. This. I can see how it might be interesting to know what implants you just destroyed but it's statistically useless since they have no value once plugged.
Andrest Disch Debitum Naturae Rejuvenate	Posted - 2008.03.31 17:17:00 - [21] /signed For the hell of it.
Ortos Empire Mafia Crew Ltd New Eden Federation.	Posted - 2008.03.31 17:34:00 - [22] This is gonna lead to two things, more podding and conciderably higher implant prices.
ArmyOfMe hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.03.31 17:41:00 - [23] invasion of MM in this thread ah well, ill drop in and say im still considering if this is a good idea or not
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.31 17:44:00 - [24] This info wouldn't lead to more pod killing. Combat would be business as usual What would change is more people smacktalking their victims when they see something expensive. This already happens a lot to me when I fly faction fit battleships in PvP, normal people suddenly get the urge to say something nasty just cause some guy was flying something expensive. With implants listed on podkill mails, it'll be exact same thing.
slothe	Posted - 2008.03.31 17:52:00 - [25] who cares tbh you usually have a good idea anyway. ]
Perfect Diamond	Posted - 2008.03.31 17:52:00 - [26] Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 31/03/2008 17:53:00 /signed It not only is good for an ego booster but to evaluate the cost of wars. Wars are won by how much isk you make the other guys loose. Knowing how much isk they loose in implants is a valuable information when determining how wars are going. Amarr is the tank OR gank race. Not the tank and gank race.
Wideen	Posted - 2008.03.31 19:26:00 - [27] Yup. Originally by: F'nog Your math intrigues me, and I wish to subscribe to its newsletter.
Erotic Irony	Posted - 2008.03.31 19:32:00 - [28] I never understood the inconsistency between this and rigs on mails. Shouldn't we be rewarded for catching pods? The argument that it encourages griefing is spurious. See my old thread in my sig for reasons. ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.03.31 21:10:00 - [29] Originally by: Erotic Irony I never understood the inconsistency between this and rigs on mails. Shouldn't we be rewarded for catching pods? The argument that it encourages griefing is spurious. See my old thread in my sig for reasons. It's because rigs have material value. If I bought a candy bar, then ate it, you might agree that it is no longer worth anything. If I was just carrying it around in my pocket it would still have value, however. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Ulstan Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.31 21:21:00 - [30] Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: Erotic Irony I never understood the inconsistency between this and rigs on mails. Shouldn't we be rewarded for catching pods? The argument that it encourages griefing is spurious. See my old thread in my sig for reasons. It's because rigs have material value. If I bought a candy bar, then ate it, you might agree that it is no longer worth anything. If I was just carrying it around in my pocket it would still have value, however. Huh? Insatalled rigs cannot be removed without destroying them, and show up on ship killmails. Installed implants cannot be removed without destroying them, yet do not show up in pod killmails.
Wet Ferret Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.31 21:40:00 - [31] Originally by: Ulstan Huh? Insatalled rigs cannot be removed without destroying them, and show up on ship killmails. Installed implants cannot be removed without destroying them, yet do not show up in pod killmails. Ever tried to sell an installed implant? How did that work out for you?
Atsuko Ratu	Posted - 2008.04.01 00:03:00 - [32] Why are destroyed modules on a kill mail? They hold no value once destroyed. If someone smacks you over eve mail because you just lost some implants, grow up and delete it. This shouldn't stop the development of eve. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Halada Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.04.01 00:08:00 - [33] Originally by: Kruel Better yet, allow us to salvage corpses and extract implants! Wasn't it considered at some point in time? Click on my sig to read it !
Wardeneo BLL Wise Guys Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.04.01 00:37:00 - [34] Originally by: Ortos This is gonna lead to two things, more podding and conciderably higher implant prices. i doubt it - if u see a vagabond moving over 13km/s like i did yesterday u blatantly know he is using snakes or a crap load of faction mods +overheating maybe? so when u pod the guy and u see his full set of snakes on pod mail how will that increase the price of em coz u just confirmed he was using snakes? and more podding i dont know about u, but i tend 2 pod some 1 if i get the chance (and if they aint blue --> NBSI 4tw :P ) and so do most ppl i know u on the other hand obviously dont :P ;) wardeneo If brute force doesn't work..... your not using enough :)
ceyriot	Posted - 2008.04.01 02:16:00 - [35] as said above... /signed http://xrl.us/bh764 Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.[/url] Faction Store
Recon Three	Posted - 2008.04.01 04:56:00 - [36] /signed Killed a 212M Industrial pilot. That was just with his rigs. I would've loved to see what implants he had. __________ Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.
FawKa	Posted - 2008.04.01 05:03:00 - [37] Originally by: Ortos This is gonna lead to two things, more podding and conciderably higher implant prices. I guess this is why ppl that cannot afford pirate sets already are signing. Therefor not signed, simply no good reason for CCP to make more failed patches atm.
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.04.01 06:31:00 - [38] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 01/04/2008 06:33:21 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 01/04/2008 06:32:37 /signed As for -why- it's signed, well, I want to see how much in ISK the average target of a certain age/etc has plugged in his head, so I know to adjust pod ransom prices accordingly. It won't lead to more podding. If you don't pay, you get podded anyway, so Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Hugh Ruka	Posted - 2008.04.01 07:26:00 - [39] more e-peen enlarging pump ? don't you have one already with rigs on killmails ? I would even remove items/mods from ship killmails ... Waiting for the patch that patches the last patch ...
Rach NiKunni	Posted - 2008.04.01 07:53:00 - [40] Originally by: InnerDrive Edited by: InnerDrive on 31/03/2008 15:11:03 IMPLANTS ON PODMAILS ....snip.... ps. sign if you want to see this aswell /signed
Vanessa Vale Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.04.01 08:27:00 - [41] lol so the op is saying he can only kill crappy ships with his interdictor and wants to pad his killboard stats with implanted pods. do you fail that much op? is your wee wee that small that you care so much? just lol Minmatar Boost Brigade
Cpt Branko	Posted - 2008.04.01 09:11:00 - [42] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 01/04/2008 09:14:30 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 01/04/2008 09:12:43 Originally by: Hugh Ruka more e-peen enlarging pump ? don't you have one already with rigs on killmails ? I would even remove items/mods from ship killmails ... Er, rigs on killmails are very useful. You get some interesting insights into what your typical target fits (I always charge more dor Drake ransoms now, for instance, you wouldn't believe how many have some sort of shield rig fitted), and it's nice to gauge how much damage did you do to someone. Particularly if you're fighting people who annoy you/you are at war with and you want to know how well are you doing in a war/etc. Also, if you fight the same people on a regular basis, it gives you a better insight into their typical ship fits&rigs. Implants are useful for very much the same reasons. Take into account there are people who me and/or my corpmates caught and killed 4-5 times already. Knowing what they have in their pods would make ransom demands much more accurate, and gauging damage done to any war targets / people we have to red more accurate. The argument it would lead to more podding is moot anyway, I pod everyone who won't pay. Unless I'm feeling really nice to some total noob who had his first shiploss and he's being ok about it, then sometimes I let them go ;) Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Little Fistter Three Hundred Musketeers	Posted - 2008.04.01 09:26:00 - [43] Originally by: Kruel Exactly! Me wants more shameless ego stroking! Better yet, allow us to salvage corpses and extract implants! Woah, I was bored with this forum whining until I read this. Good idea Kruel, I toast to you! Salvage your opponent's implants much better suggestion than a mere telling of the loss. SALVAGE IMPLANTS GOOD! Make It So! Suggestion: Please color jump gates the same color as the system security rating of the destination system in the overview. *LITTLE FISTTER* Broken Sigs?
Darth Felin Free Space Pilots aka Banderlogs Red Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.01 10:31:00 - [44] not signed, There are more than enough things for your epeen anyway.
Niffetin Omni Research	Posted - 2008.04.01 10:39:00 - [45] /Signed ! --- Teeheee! mematar's Video Archive
Glacius Prime	Posted - 2008.04.01 11:28:00 - [46] /signed
Jeerr	Posted - 2008.04.01 11:33:00 - [47] /signed Why kill a player in 0.4- and get a HUGE sec hit ?? because some players spend billions on plants... or at least hundreds of millions. It's a great idea and should have been a normal game mechanic from the start.
Jeerrr	Posted - 2008.04.01 11:34:00 - [48] Originally by: Jeerr /signed Why kill a player in 0.4- and get a HUGE sec hit ?? because some players spend billions on plants... or at least hundreds of millions. It's a great idea and should have been a normal game mechanic from the start. EDIT: This is the REAL JEERRR!
Cpt Branko	Posted - 2008.04.01 11:34:00 - [49] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 01/04/2008 11:35:05 Originally by: Darth Felin not signed, There are more than enough things for your epeen anyway. I think I gave quite a detailed explanation why it's not just a 'moar epeen' thing. Of course, if you have reading issues or reading comprehension issues, or are just bitter about always being podded and never the podee I imagine you would just ignore my post. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Fuazzole Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.04.01 11:38:00 - [50] I'm 1/2 n' 1/2 with this, I think some case's of pvp are a cycological substitute for bullying, and thiers the epeen nonsence blah blab blah... but then, I think of all the nano****ery and wonder how chuffed i'd feel if I podded a 6/6 snake bastage.
Dark Voynix	Posted - 2008.04.01 12:54:00 - [51] i like the concept idea, but looking them from killmail seems a bit excessive. More interesting should be that you need to scoop the corpse and "right click" at them to see what implant they had. U are curiuos? grab the corpse and analyze it !!
Squatdog	Posted - 2008.04.01 13:26:00 - [52] Edited by: Squatdog on 01/04/2008 13:27:51 Implants should be listed on Pod Killmails. It's a great measure of how much you've screwed someone over, especially nanofags abusing Snake Sets. Personally, I can lose a 50m crow or 180m Raven and not bat an eyelid because my corp supplies me with free replacement hulls and I always keep at least one spare, but losing 100m+ in implants is a massive pain in the arse and the cost can't be recovered. [yellow]Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigato
Jarne Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Star Buccaneers	Posted - 2008.04.01 13:42:00 - [53] Please consider this does not make much sense from a RP perspective. Essentially what you are destroying is the pod, which does not have any modules installed nor any implants. The implants are in the corpse which floats happily through space after a pod kill. As you do not get a killmail for shooting a corpse, you can thus not see the implants which where in there (frozen probably, but not destroyed yet). A corpse scanner would be a "correct" solution from the RP point-of-view. But that aside, for practical purposes, yes, please show the implants on the pod's killmail! - Success=Achievements/Expectations
Daqinson The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.01 13:48:00 - [54] /signed
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.04.01 13:53:00 - [55] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 01/04/2008 13:53:34 Originally by: Dark Voynix i like the concept idea, but looking them from killmail seems a bit excessive. More interesting should be that you need to scoop the corpse and "right click" at them to see what implant they had. U are curiuos? grab the corpse and analyze it !! Personally, I love if you could do more things with corpses anyway - salvaging implants or just checking what destroyed implants are there would be nice (as well as having extra info available, like date of podding, SP, etc). Some corpse love would be nice. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Skyr	Posted - 2008.04.01 14:44:00 - [56] signed.
Wet Ferret Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.04.01 15:03:00 - [57] Originally by: Cpt Branko Some corpse love would be nice. As long as you keep your corpse love stories to yourself...
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.04.01 15:06:00 - [58] /signed Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Martin Lopez	Posted - 2008.04.01 15:33:00 - [59] /signed
Solomon XI Dawn of Chaos Black-Out	Posted - 2008.04.01 15:58:00 - [60] I concur that when someone get's podded, their Implants should appear on said kill-mail. /signed.
Julius Romanus Fatalix Inc. Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.01 16:02:00 - [61] Thats all well and good. But what eve needs is to hack into any attached video imput devices(camera, webcam, spy satalite) and take a picture of the look on the person face when their pod makes the squish noise. ------------------ For Medicinal Use Only.
Firkragg	Posted - 2008.04.01 16:07:00 - [62] Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: Erotic Irony I never understood the inconsistency between this and rigs on mails. Shouldn't we be rewarded for catching pods? The argument that it encourages griefing is spurious. See my old thread in my sig for reasons. It's because rigs have material value. If I bought a candy bar, then ate it, you might agree that it is no longer worth anything. If I was just carrying it around in my pocket it would still have value, however. Even if you eat it there is still a value to you. The candy bar is making you less hungry and providing energy. Same logic applies to implants. While there is no value to anyone else once they are plugged in they are still having value to you (because you paid for the effects not the implants themselves obviously). [url=http://killboard.outbreak-eve.com/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=48203] Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.[/url]
Cpt's Accountant	Posted - 2008.04.01 16:16:00 - [63] Not signed. Alot of players work their ass off to come up with their own setups (implants included). This would reveal too much information. I can see how alot of lesser pilots would like this though.
Wet Ferret Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.04.01 16:30:00 - [64] Originally by: Firkragg Even if you eat it there is still a value to you. The candy bar is making you less hungry and providing energy. Same logic applies to implants. While there is no value to anyone else once they are plugged in they are still having value to you (because you paid for the effects not the implants themselves obviously). I realize that, but the value I was referring to is the value that some people claim that they want to gauge when they kill a pod; ie: the monetary / trade value. It's the simple fact that you cannot inflict monetary damage on someone by destroying something that has no monetary value, even if it once had monetary value.
Bronson Hughes Knights of the Wild Visions of Warfare	Posted - 2008.04.01 17:02:00 - [65] Originally by: Cpt's Accountant Not signed. Alot of players work their ass off to come up with their own setups (implants included). This would reveal too much information. I can see how alot of lesser pilots would like this though. /signed for exactly that reason. If we already know what rigs and modules the pilot was using, why not implants? Knowing that an annoying nano-pilot has just lost a full set of Snakes and will likely be not quite as nano-ed in the near future is valuable intel. Epeen stroking and extra smack talking will also come with it, that's unavoidable, but from a balance and utility standpoint I've always been suprised that it's not in the game already. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Rhaegor Stormborn	Posted - 2008.04.01 17:08:00 - [66] /signed Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. Volition Cult Recruitment Post
Hans Viktor	Posted - 2008.04.01 17:34:00 - [67] Originally by: Cpt's Accountant Not signed. Alot of players work their ass off to come up with their own setups (implants included). This would reveal too much information. I can see how alot of lesser pilots would like this though. It's not like these players are creating their own mods, there is only so much you can do with a ship, and eve provides you with all the options and info you need. Killmails already show you all this, if they want the setup, they plug it into EFT and adjust implants and mods as they see fit. Don't forget, if that setup was so good, how come you got the guys pod?
EvilSpork Invicta.	Posted - 2008.04.01 18:35:00 - [68] Originally by: Lipix /Signed, should have been implemented long ago. this.
Crazy Tasty Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.04.01 19:46:00 - [69] /signed On top of that I'd like to see ship scanners work on pods. Would make ransoming pods much easier if I could see their implants beforehand. ------ Originally by: Garmon people using warp core stabilizers are generally more skilled than people not using warp corer stabilizers
Paddington Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.04.01 20:00:00 - [70] /signed
Vanna Phi Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.04.01 20:07:00 - [71] a must imho /signed @ID
Vanessa Vale Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.04.01 20:38:00 - [72] Unsigning again since the mods decided to gag me for some unspecified reason. Not only this idea doesn't add anything other than e-peen, but it stinks of OP wanting to pad his killboard stats because he can't kill anything else than pods. And yes, that is bad. Not because the OP wants to do it, I couldn't care less, but because look what killmails have done to the game. Look all those more people who wont go out on a suicide t1 fitted cruiser because they don't want to screw up their stats, or those pointless k/d discussions and screwed up statistics. So no, adding more crap to the game to satisfy the epeen necessities of a few is a bad idea. Minmatar Boost Brigade
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.04.01 21:11:00 - [73] Quote: It's the simple fact that you cannot inflict monetary damage on someone by destroying something that has no monetary value, even if it once had monetary value. Your analysis is incorrect. If you destroy something that has no monetary value, but the victim must spend money to replace it, you've still inflicted monetary damage. Anywya, how is this different than rigs? Rigs installed on a ship have monetary value if you decide to sell the ship, but cannot be removed without destroying them. Implants insatlled on a character have monetary value if you decide to sell the character, but cannot be removed without destroying them.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.01 21:21:00 - [74] This information will not change the way people fight. Does this information have any usefulness besides additional excuse to taunt your enemies? Normally I'm all for extra info, but I receive enough hate mail for just losing faction mods in pvp, I don't want to hear more crap about my implants.
Erotic Irony	Posted - 2008.04.01 21:40:00 - [75] Edited by: Erotic Irony on 01/04/2008 21:40:59 Originally by: Ephemeron This information will not change the way people fight. Does this information have any usefulness besides additional excuse to taunt your enemies? Normally I'm all for extra info, but I receive enough hate mail for just losing faction mods in pvp, I don't want to hear more crap about my implants. Sure it will change the way people fight, if the implant doesn't show up only you know it was lost and quietly take satisfaction in knowing what your enemy doesn't; namely that he destroyed more than he think he did. As far the kb is concerned, no implants were lost and your ratio remains intact--given the scope and power of fullgrade sets this isn't a minor advantage or sum of isk you lose when podded and you know that very well. Given that pos mods were converted to mails for the attackers for no other reason than consistency, there is no valid reason not to extend this consistency toward implants given that rigs appear as well. The issue with you and having snakes has long been a foregone conclusion, when you fly nothing but officer and fully faction machs, its pretty clear you're implanted and a high value target. If you're worried about being harangued on your killboard by ernest and friends, disable comments or don't use snakes. ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Ephemeron	Posted - 2008.04.01 22:13:00 - [76] Originally by: Erotic Irony Edited by: Erotic Irony on 01/04/2008 21:40:59 Originally by: Ephemeron This information will not change the way people fight. Does this information have any usefulness besides additional excuse to taunt your enemies? Normally I'm all for extra info, but I receive enough hate mail for just losing faction mods in pvp, I don't want to hear more crap about my implants. Sure it will change the way people fight, if the implant doesn't show up only you know it was lost and quietly take satisfaction in knowing what your enemy doesn't; namely that he destroyed more than he think he did. As far the kb is concerned, no implants were lost and your ratio remains intact--given the scope and power of fullgrade sets this isn't a minor advantage or sum of isk you lose when podded and you know that very well. Given that pos mods were converted to mails for the attackers for no other reason than consistency, there is no valid reason not to extend this consistency toward implants given that rigs appear as well. The issue with you and having snakes has long been a foregone conclusion, when you fly nothing but officer and fully faction machs, its pretty clear you're implanted and a high value target. If you're worried about being harangued on your killboard by ernest and friends, disable comments or don't use snakes. The kill/death ratio is uneffected. Only the isk ratios are effected. When I lost 4 billion isk ship in PvP, the killboards list it as only a few hundred mil loss. I often notice how badly killboards deal with prices of nonstandard items. It wouldn't be surprising if killboards listed Snake Omega as 100,000 isk loss. And I don't get hatemail from friendlies. It's always some hostiles who see me in local and are forced into hiding, I guess they feel a bit angry that I came to disturb their peace and that they can't attack me, so they attack with words from safety. Just your regular smack talk stuff.
Erotic Irony	Posted - 2008.04.01 22:21:00 - [77] Originally by: Ephemeron Originally by: Erotic Irony Edited by: Erotic Irony on 01/04/2008 21:40:59 Originally by: Ephemeron This information will not change the way people fight. Does this information have any usefulness besides additional excuse to taunt your enemies? Normally I'm all for extra info, but I receive enough hate mail for just losing faction mods in pvp, I don't want to hear more crap about my implants. Sure it will change the way people fight, if the implant doesn't show up only you know it was lost and quietly take satisfaction in knowing what your enemy doesn't; namely that he destroyed more than he think he did. As far the kb is concerned, no implants were lost and your ratio remains intact--given the scope and power of fullgrade sets this isn't a minor advantage or sum of isk you lose when podded and you know that very well. Given that pos mods were converted to mails for the attackers for no other reason than consistency, there is no valid reason not to extend this consistency toward implants given that rigs appear as well. The issue with you and having snakes has long been a foregone conclusion, when you fly nothing but officer and fully faction machs, its pretty clear you're implanted and a high value target. If you're worried about being harangued on your killboard by ernest and friends, disable comments or don't use snakes. The kill/death ratio is uneffected. Only the isk ratios are effected. When I lost 4 billion isk ship in PvP, the killboards list it as only a few hundred mil loss. I often notice how badly killboards deal with prices of nonstandard items. It wouldn't be surprising if killboards listed Snake Omega as 100,000 isk loss. And I don't get hatemail from friendlies. It's always some hostiles who see me in local and are forced into hiding, I guess they feel a bit angry that I came to disturb their peace and that they can't attack me, so they attack with words from safety. Just your regular smack talk stuff. well of course, but what you're describing is a symptom of not being able to verify whether implants were lost not a rationale to avoiding implants on mails ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Ephemeron	Posted - 2008.04.01 22:45:00 - [78] What I'm saying is that implants on podmails can only lead to additional smacktalking, it would have absolutely no other impact on the game.
Erotic Irony	Posted - 2008.04.01 23:04:00 - [79] Originally by: Ephemeron What I'm saying is that implants on podmails can only lead to additional smacktalking, it would have absolutely no other impact on the game. smack is smack, nothing will change that but if you play Eve competitively, and I assume CEI does, to measure damage done and create empirical standards vis a vis killboards then implants are the logical continuation of that idea especially in lieu of the cost of pirate full grades but also thanks to the libraries of possible hardwires available--as I said earlier, this things all have value on the market and should be measured. if you don't play eve at the highest level and still want to have fun, implants on mails still make sense because we can track virtually every other type of destructible it wont fundamentally alter to logic of combat but it will enhance the gameplay nonetheless for a richer, more complete game ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Ephemeron	Posted - 2008.04.01 23:39:00 - [80] Edited by: Ephemeron on 01/04/2008 23:43:31 As I said earlier, even now killboards incorrectly value price of faction loot. So if 1.1 bil mod gets listed on killboard as 300,000 isk mod.. what's the point of asking for implants? get that crap sorted out before you can make arguments about implants adding value Also, I want to point out that my financial losses are in no way connected to CEI losses. I'm completely self funded. So putting 1 bil loss for CEI corp because I lost some faction ship would be unfair to them and in reality not effect any of them but me alone.
velocoraptor	Posted - 2008.04.01 23:45:00 - [81] /signed (long overdue) Space for hire
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.04.01 23:47:00 - [82] Edited by: Erotic Irony on 01/04/2008 23:49:08 Originally by: Ephemeron As I said earlier, even now killboards incorrectly value price of faction loot. So if 1.1 bil mod gets listed on killboard as 300,000 isk mod.. what's the point of asking for implants? get that crap sorted out before you can make arguments about implants adding value as I said above, you can re-edit faction ship and item losses to be approximately current with contract averages, same with implants--the reason no one does it with implants is not because they have no value but because theres no way to tell if they independently verify they were ever there. You seem to be suggesting the authority is the killboard valuations when in fact it is the new killmail system that is slightly more comprehensive but when the killmail is effectively incomplete, it is more than a little partisan to say implants don't matter because the board undervalues them. Indeed, if implants have no value as you suggest, why use them? Saying they have no value is as silly as saying mined ore is free mins. Originally by: Eph Also, I want to point out that my financial losses are in no way connected to CEI losses. I'm completely self funded. So putting 1 bil loss for CEI corp because I lost some faction ship would be unfair to them and in reality not effect any of them but me alone. It wasn't an ad-hominem, I was with you on you being a serious pvper apart of an ambitious alliance. ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Vim	Posted - 2008.04.02 00:28:00 - [83] Not signed. Already rigs on killmails was a step in the wrong direction, let people figure out their own setups and not streamline the game by handing out 'secrets'. Smug, great word. That is all the people signing this idea is. Little perverts cranking up the speed of the motion of their right hand after a kill to feed their kb stats. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Erotic Irony	Posted - 2008.04.02 00:35:00 - [84] Originally by: Vim Not signed. Already rigs on killmails was a step in the wrong direction, let people figure out their own setups and not streamline the game by handing out 'secrets'. Smug, great word. That is all the people signing this idea is. Little perverts cranking up the speed of the motion of their right hand after a kill to feed their kb stats. you know this is a game right ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Crazy Tasty Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.04.02 00:50:00 - [85] Originally by: Erotic Irony Originally by: Vim Not signed. Already rigs on killmails was a step in the wrong direction, let people figure out their own setups and not streamline the game by handing out 'secrets'. Smug, great word. That is all the people signing this idea is. Little perverts cranking up the speed of the motion of their right hand after a kill to feed their kb stats. you know this is a game right Qft. If the setup was that uber in the first place, how'd it end up as a killmail? In all seriousness, there is no valid argument against this. The exact same type of information already exists as rigs/destroyed items on killmails, it almost seems like a bug to not have it on pod killmails to. ------ Originally by: Garmon people using warp core stabilizers are generally more skilled than people not using warp corer stabilizers
Visko Altertunity Incorpus CaP Legion of Honor	Posted - 2008.04.02 00:59:00 - [86] /signed
Quirc HeartVenom Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.02 01:28:00 - [87] /signed Probably a good idea, to me it falls under the same thing as rigs.
Vim Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.04.02 01:29:00 - [88] Well aware that it is a game which is why the glee some have over killing a trippel rigged battleship sickens me, adding implants to further add to peoples ego stroking and 'haha! (Cartman style) in no way adds to the game aspect/any resemblance to 'sport/game'manship, only bad karma. Why a 'uber' setup dies? Its not about it being uber, its about trying to gain an extra edge by various riggings that people may not expect; till they've killed you once and in the smoldering pieces of your wreck managed to makeout your customized(rigs) changes to how the ship works? Rigs should never have been added to kms and hopefully never will implants. Do I care? My implants cost 6-9m and are no secret to anyone, would I love to see wargods podmail with a snakeset listed? No, and I certainly dont want it to be confirmed to add to the 'that dude have snakes/expensive implants lolololo suuucks to be him' spirit that seems to hold many in its grip nowdays, but I understand the cs community to an extent.
Quirc HeartVenom Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.02 01:43:00 - [89] I don't feel this has anything to do with smacktalking. Yeah, so they get more material. So what, it's just a game anyway, they don't know where you live and this is why we have the Block function. Seeing what implants were lost lends the sort of insight that seeing the rigs does. Yeah, that means intel. So what? Whatever "secret" you had obviously wasn't enough to keep you alive anyway. Let's drop these nonsensical arguments of "oh god they'll smack me, nooooo!!!!11" and "ohnoes they know my uber fit" as just that, nonsensical.
Bloodhands	Posted - 2008.04.02 05:11:00 - [90] I'm in favor and yet not in favor of this. Slot 1-5 is epeen. However slots 6-10 are just as important as rigs, cost similar amounts and serve similar purposes. Someone mentioned pluged in implants are worthless while pluged in rigs aren't. I would like to disagree as one that creates custom toons for people and sells them, a mining toon with a 'Gypsy' KMB-75, and a 'Yeti' BX-2 plugged in sells for more then not. Rigs serve a purpose and so do hardwirings. /signed Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
RazorCRO	Posted - 2008.04.02 07:04:00 - [91] /signed It's same thing as rigs...they cost, they cantbe removed....well..they cost and it would be nice to see that you made someone cry becouse you just killed his snake set.
Slab Drinklots	Posted - 2008.04.02 08:21:00 - [92] Yes please, show us implants on pod mails! I also like the idea of using salvagers and possibly getting implants from corpses. Maybe add implant BPOs and have them require new components only obtainable from salvaging corpses with implants?
J Corwin	Posted - 2008.04.02 08:25:00 - [93] /signed
Neon Razor Enterprise Estonia	Posted - 2008.04.02 09:02:00 - [94] /SIGNED
KhumChe	Posted - 2008.04.02 09:15:00 - [95] /signed
Guygeboe Steel Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.02 09:53:00 - [96] /signed would be awesome! I love killmails!
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.04.02 10:25:00 - [97] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 01/04/2008 09:26:47 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 01/04/2008 09:14:30 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 01/04/2008 09:12:43 Originally by: Hugh Ruka more e-peen enlarging pump ? don't you have one already with rigs on killmails ? I would even remove items/mods from ship killmails ... Er, rigs on killmails are very useful. You get some interesting insights into what your typical target fits (I always charge more dor Drake ransoms now, for instance, you wouldn't believe how many have some sort of shield rig fitted), and it's nice to gauge how much damage did you do to someone. Particularly if you're fighting people who annoy you/you are at war with and you want to know how well are you doing in a war/etc. Also, if you fight the same people on a regular basis, it gives you a better insight into their typical ship fits&rigs. Implants are useful for very much the same reasons. Take into account there are people who me and/or my corpmates caught and killed 4-5 times already. Knowing what they have in their pods would make ransom demands much more accurate, and gauging damage done to any war targets / people we have to red more accurate. The argument it would lead to more podding is moot anyway, I pod everyone who won't pay. Unless I'm feeling really nice to some total noob who had his first shiploss and he's being ok about it, then sometimes I let them go ;) Salvaging implants would be for the win, of course. Don't want to pay? Oh, well... I'll salvage you oh you don't need to explain that for me ... I know how valuable intel this can be ... however I think in a way killboards are killing PvP ... there are many folks that have their killboard score as their highest deity ... and this is sometimes annoying ... I mean with a good industrial backbone you can loose more ships than your opponent, but his killboard will look like he's doing good while in fact he hardly dents your equipment resources ... killboards are overrated ... Waiting for the patch that patches the last patch ...
Endo Dy	Posted - 2008.04.02 11:01:00 - [98] /Signed (Btw podwrecks which have implants as loot should be nice to )
Zaknussem	Posted - 2008.04.02 11:04:00 - [99] Not signed. Reason 1: Implants are not a part of the ship/pod. Reason 2: The Killmail system is flawed and wide open to abuse. You can't tell whether a Killmail is genuine. Even if Reason 2 was addressed to its fullest, I would still disagree with this. A better solution, IMO, would be that the information can be gained from the corpse. Once you have dragged a corpse to a starbase (with the proper medical facilities) you could then "research" the corpse to try to learn what implants were in it. Maybe even give us a rough lowdown on the stats of the corpse. ("This corpse had poor eyesight, but good reflexes.") Success rate and other related variables would be dependant upon your Biology skill.
deadmaus	Posted - 2008.04.02 12:00:00 - [100] One can never be sure there are sweet tears shed when a pod splats..now one can be sure, with implants showing on their loss mail for all the world to see!
Omarvelous	Posted - 2008.04.02 13:35:00 - [101] Originally by: Zaknussem Not signed. Reason 1: Implants are not a part of the ship/pod. Reason 2: The Killmail system is flawed and wide open to abuse. You can't tell whether a Killmail is genuine. Even if Reason 2 was addressed to its fullest, I would still disagree with this. A better solution, IMO, would be that the information can be gained from the corpse. Once you have dragged a corpse to a starbase (with the proper medical facilities) you could then "research" the corpse to try to learn what implants were in it. Maybe even give us a rough lowdown on the stats of the corpse. ("This corpse had poor eyesight, but good reflexes.") Success rate and other related variables would be dependant upon your Biology skill. Wow - that's a pretty cool idea - I'm onboard for it! __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Soto ShinDo	Posted - 2008.04.02 13:45:00 - [102] Edited by: Soto ShinDo on 02/04/2008 13:45:09 Originally by: Bloodhands I'm in favor and yet not in favor of this. Slot 1-5 is epeen. However slots 6-10 are just as important as rigs, cost similar amounts and serve similar purposes. Someone mentioned pluged in implants are worthless while pluged in rigs aren't. I would like to disagree as one that creates custom toons for people and sells them, a mining toon with a 'Gypsy' KMB-75, and a 'Yeti' BX-2 plugged in sells for more then not. Rigs serve a purpose and so do hardwirings. /signed Slots 1-5 are anything but epeen if you use Pirate implants (sets). You won't get a Vagabond over 10000 m/s without a Snake set - you should know that living next to TRI :P Apart from that /Signed
Hugh Ruka	Posted - 2008.04.02 13:47:00 - [103] Originally by: Zaknussem Not signed. Reason 1: Implants are not a part of the ship/pod. Reason 2: The Killmail system is flawed and wide open to abuse. You can't tell whether a Killmail is genuine. Even if Reason 2 was addressed to its fullest, I would still disagree with this. A better solution, IMO, would be that the information can be gained from the corpse. Once you have dragged a corpse to a starbase (with the proper medical facilities) you could then "research" the corpse to try to learn what implants were in it. Maybe even give us a rough lowdown on the stats of the corpse. ("This corpse had poor eyesight, but good reflexes.") Success rate and other related variables would be dependant upon your Biology skill. This is PURE WIN !!!! man this idea is beyond great ... adds more depth to the game .... Waiting for the patch that patches the last patch ...
Bloodhands hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.04.02 16:44:00 - [104] Originally by: Soto ShinDo Edited by: Soto ShinDo on 02/04/2008 13:45:09 Originally by: Bloodhands I'm in favor and yet not in favor of this. Slot 1-5 is epeen. However slots 6-10 are just as important as rigs, cost similar amounts and serve similar purposes. Someone mentioned pluged in implants are worthless while pluged in rigs aren't. I would like to disagree as one that creates custom toons for people and sells them, a mining toon with a 'Gypsy' KMB-75, and a 'Yeti' BX-2 plugged in sells for more then not. Rigs serve a purpose and so do hardwirings. /signed Slots 1-5 are anything but epeen if you use Pirate implants (sets). You won't get a Vagabond over 10000 m/s without a Snake set - you should know that living next to TRI :P Apart from that /Signed To make them work, the word set is key. Slot 6 is the final key to a set. Even the carebear set that ore puts out has a slot 6 that finishes it off.
Biswen	Posted - 2008.04.02 22:32:00 - [105] \signed
Solwolf Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.04.03 06:16:00 - [106] Not a bad idea. I hope it wouldn't be too hard to code.
Tempest Hypheus	Posted - 2008.04.03 09:23:00 - [107] /signed
Alak D'bor Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.03 09:46:00 - [108] Moving this thread to the actual topic of this forum, the only ship you oughtn't be able to kill is the ceptor. In a sabre you ought to be able to kill assault frigates, destroyers, and all dictors except a sabre better than you.
JS LiamElms	Posted - 2008.04.03 13:17:00 - [109] Originally by: Alak D'bor Moving this thread to the actual topic of this forum, the only ship you oughtn't be able to kill is the ceptor. In a sabre you ought to be able to kill assault frigates, destroyers, and all dictors except a sabre better than you. Er, dude, i think you clicked on the wrong button.. /SIGNED to the op lol, to the amount people have signed for a yes please... so i hope CCP listen to this. For the guys that think its stroking ones ego... if you pvp you kill stuff and enjoy the kill, laugh about it and talk of the great kililng you did. Er, ego stroking... nah, just a game and funny as hell if you podded some guy in a vaga all polied up. You always hope that he had implants on cause you know he's only in a vaga to kill you. SO you can see this is a kill or be killed, i am better than you, eat my bullets whahahahahahhaha... DIe DIE DIE... and then GF :) get over the whole KB thing... nothing makes me smile to link a KM to my mates and boost of how great it was with them patting me on the back, as they bring out there 'better' km... :P and oh oh oh, it would be sweet to confirm they had the best most expensive implants in and you killed them! you know they spent all that money to be better than you right?? you know they are wanting to beat you with all those extras... If it was realisitic, you should be able to pick up the corpse and get it examined to see the impants, not being ont eh km of the pod... maybe thats what they should do... if your willing to risk hanging around to pick up the corpse!!
Julia Newmatar Perkone	Posted - 2008.04.03 16:38:00 - [110] Killmails and killboards has killed true EVE pvp, it's no longer about the hunt and the fight it's all about the killmail for most so called pirates, that's why ganks, blobs, etc have become so nefarious, send killmails only to the victim, the aggressor should recieve nothing more than the satisfaction of having beaten an opponent, and the chance to loot.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.04.04 03:04:00 - [111] Originally by: Julia Newmatar Killmails and killboards has killed true EVE pvp, it's no longer about the hunt and the fight it's all about the killmail for most so called pirates, that's why ganks, blobs, etc have become so nefarious, send killmails only to the victim, the aggressor should recieve nothing more than the satisfaction of having beaten an opponent, and the chance to loot. Another satisfied customer who didn't use a scout? In Eve, to a greater degree than any other game, you need to be a consumer of information to succeed, you have to know the metagame to some extent to succeed and subvert it. To that end you, vis-a-vis your understanding of game mechanics, represent your greatest ally and your greatest nemesis. Killmails don't kill anything, but the lack of empirical measures of success and failure do. We know that killmails are a part of the game, now since we know they won't be removed at one extreme, it follows that they be supported comprehensively. It would be as if all races could use the market save minmatar--plainly sloppy design. The thread in my sig goes into greater depth into the logic of killmails but you're so preoccupied using words like nefarious that I fear nothing will persuade you. Indeed, those who are so ardently against kill mails and who throw forum fits fundamentally don't understand ship loss is merely an objective fact and not some pretext for emotional crisis. In other words Julia Newmatar, get over yourself. ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
InnerDrive Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.04.05 22:51:00 - [112] I got 2 major motivations for wanting this. 1. We need to be abble to tell how much isk worth of damage we inflicted on our enemys, full snake sets and the likes not showing when they cost billions while a simple carrier is cheap compared to it is silly. 2. Nothing more boring than killing shuttles and noobships and lil friggies all day at a gatecamp, but one those having nice implants can turn a happy smile on a pvpers face if it woud show on the podmail..
Ezekiel Sulastin Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.04.06 01:46:00 - [113] Originally by: InnerDrive 2. Nothing more boring than killing shuttles and noobships and lil friggies all day at a gatecamp, but one those having nice implants can turn a happy smile on a pvpers face if it woud show on the podmail.. If your idea of happy PVP is shooting shuttles all day at a gatecamp, then you have far worse issues than not being able to see implants on a killmail. ---- WTB Armor Nerf Hardener II, 10^100 isk OBO
InnerDrive Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.04.06 02:07:00 - [114] Edited by: InnerDrive on 06/04/2008 02:07:51 Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin Originally by: InnerDrive 2. Nothing more boring than killing shuttles and noobships and lil friggies all day at a gatecamp, but one those having nice implants can turn a happy smile on a pvpers face if it woud show on the podmail.. If your idea of happy PVP is shooting shuttles all day at a gatecamp, then you have far worse issues than not being able to see implants on a killmail. Hey sometimes you just dont control what enters your space when ur defending it, but everything needs to die offcourse. And most of the time that is shuttles friggies and noobships.
Julia Newmatar Perkone	Posted - 2008.04.07 10:31:00 - [115] Originally by: Erotic Irony Originally by: Julia Newmatar Killmails and killboards has killed true EVE pvp, it's no longer about the hunt and the fight it's all about the killmail for most so called pirates, that's why ganks, blobs, etc have become so nefarious, send killmails only to the victim, the aggressor should recieve nothing more than the satisfaction of having beaten an opponent, and the chance to loot. Another satisfied customer who didn't use a scout? In Eve, to a greater degree than any other game, you need to be a consumer of information to succeed, you have to know the metagame to some extent to succeed and subvert it. To that end you, vis-a-vis your understanding of game mechanics, represent your greatest ally and your greatest nemesis. Killmails don't kill anything, but the lack of empirical measures of success and failure do. We know that killmails are a part of the game, now since we know they won't be removed at one extreme, it follows that they be supported comprehensively. It would be as if all races could use the market save minmatar--plainly sloppy design. The thread in my sig goes into greater depth into the logic of killmails but you're so preoccupied using words like nefarious that I fear nothing will persuade you. Indeed, those who are so ardently against kill mails and who throw forum fits fundamentally don't understand ship loss is merely an objective fact and not some pretext for emotional crisis. In other words Julia Newmatar, get over yourself. I realise this is a late response, but since you made this personal. I guarantee that you will not find my name on any kill-board, my pvp alt however you'll find on many, I have no problems with this. I have no problems with the concept of killmails, using them in meta gaming and as intelligence sources are fine, but when the object of the game becomes the kill-mail then something is broken, I enjoy ganking carebears in low sec as much as the next guy, but do so for the rush of the hunt, not for the next kill-mail to post on a kill-board. If you can't admit that there is a fundamental flaw in the kill-mail system then that's too bad.
UrsaeMajoris Combined Imperial Fleet Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.07 10:37:00 - [116] /signed!
Sinder Ohm	Posted - 2008.04.07 11:08:00 - [117] SIGNED
Freezehunter	Posted - 2008.04.07 19:48:00 - [118] signed Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

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