| Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
155
   |
Posted - 2012.02.26 21:19:00 -
[31] - Quote
Also, for future reference, posting is the only goon tactic. |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
1718
|
Posted - 2012.02.26 22:33:00 -
[32] - Quote
Seleene wrote:My political ~theory~:
Cynical - I think a lot of people in various alliances will do exactly as they are told and vote for whom their leaders tell them to vote for.
Realist - I think a lot of people in various alliances will say they are doing exactly as they are told and vote for who they want to vote for.
Probable - I think a lot of people in various alliances will just silently vote for who they want to vote for.
Idealist - I think there are a lot of people not in alliances; they outnumber the 'blocs'. If they turn out in large numbers, it's all up for grabs.
Conspiracist - CCP Diagoras counts the votes. I am bringing him a gift when I come to Fanfest. 
Re-Elect Trebor to the CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism!
My CSM Blog |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
453
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 05:10:00 -
[33] - Quote
Also to add to the conspiracist- Just add raising CCP pay to the platform, and magically you make chairman. Also make real life political donations to iceland politics to make it better for businesses.
disorientating |
Johan Krieger
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
98
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 06:29:00 -
[34] - Quote
Oh goodie more pubbie conspiracies about how the goonies are forcing their members to vote for Mittens.
The fact of the matter is we aren't dribbling retards who don't know what's going on. We know what Mittens stands for, and that is the betterment of EVE as a whole. Not just nullsec, and not for his own betterment. EVE AS A WHOLE. We fully believe in him because we know him. He is very straightforward and clear on what he wants, and it's the same exact thing that line member players, like myself want. Do I really want to hop in my maelstrom and join a fleet, move to our target just to be hot dropped by 30 titans and have our entire fleet decimated? No, and I'm **** sure you wouldn't either. He wants what is best for the game and for the players, so that they can continue to play and enjoy themselves.
It is absolutely clear that The Mittani has done everything in his power to transform EVE Online: A Terrible Game, into EVE Online: A Completely Tolerable and Occasionally Good game. From the supercapital re balances to the end of CCP's focus on space barbies he has been totally involved. The fact of the matter is that the CSM has never had as much influence as it does today. The even better part is that the Devs actually, and I know this may sound like a surprise to someone as misinformed as you, listen to the CSM and value their opinion and actually act upon them. Supercap nerfs, hybrid re balancing, assault ship re balancing, dramiel nerf (lolfags), t3 cruisers, etc.
Has any CSM in the past ever gotten anything even close to this accomplished? No. What do the previous CSM's have to brag about? The complete and utter ruining of jump bridges, and boy what an accomplishment that is.
Basically what I am saying is, you are a complete and utter fool if you think Mittens is "forcing" anyone to vote for him. We vote for him because we know what he is capable of, he wants the same things that we want, and we know that the Devs will actually listen to him.
I'm really drunk.
buttes |
Devilish Ledoux
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
53
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 06:37:00 -
[35] - Quote
If I understand the OP's 'logic' correctly, it seems that he has a problem with an alliance's leadership explicitly telling the line members to "Vote for this guy." It would seem that he would prefer it is alliances just encouraged their people to vote without any recommendations, or at least without any explicit directives. This would allow candidates who wouldn't otherwise be able to garner a broad base of appeal the opportunity to get elected on the strength of their good ideas.
I have to say that this sounds like a really good idea until you think it. On the surface, it would seem to support candidates with good ideas, but without any particular influence with organized demographics (ie, alliances). The OP would have us believe that bloc-voting denies these lesser-known "idea" candidates a) exist and b) have such good ideas that they can't help but enrich the CSM as a player advocacy group.
The OP assumes "good ideas" are something a successful CSM candidate simply must have to better support their constituents. This is incorrect for several reasons, not least of all the fact that this method of CSM election was already tried, with craptacular results. Besides, if the CSM need ideas, they need only solicit them from the community. There's a whole forum just for this sort of thing. That someone with a really great idea for improving wormhole mechanics isn't going to withhold his ideas until he gets elected to the CSM. He spent time working on them and he's damned sure going to share them.
I've never been on the CSM, but I've paid enough attention to know that CCP doesn't come to the CSM delegates and ask "what do you think we should do to fix ________?" They come to the CSM delegates and say, "we're thinking of doing _________. What do you think?" It is for this reason that we need to elect organized, politically-minded critical thinkers who are able to take the dev team's ideas and improve upon them or - in some cases - explain why their implementation would be a bad thing for Eve in such a way that the dev team actually listens and agrees with the CSM.
In my mind, the successful CSM candidate:
Has the critical thinking skills to properly evaluate ideas brought up by CCP or community members.
Has the ability to persuade others that his/her evaluation is accurate.
Is organized enough to follow community discussions, both to solicit new ideas, gather feedback on existing gameplay mechanics and evaluate both for consistency and relevancy without getting bogged down in the chaos that are the forums.
Genuinely enjoys doing the job, to minimize the chances that they burn out.
Is it any wonder that bloc-level leaders in Eve find themselves uniquely suited to the role of CSM delegate? Is it any wonder that the people they already play Eve with - who know them to be intelligent, organized, charismatic and dedicated - endorce, campaign for and eventually vote for them?
TL;DR My impression of the OP: "Buhuu, you shouldn't tell people in your alliance to vote for a candiate, even if he's your CEO." |
ThisIsntMyMain
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
93
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 06:56:00 -
[36] - Quote
Devilish Ledoux wrote:If I understand the OP's 'logic' correctly,
Good luck with that. I think we've already established that the OP is a conspiracy nut with an anti Mittens agenda hidden behind very long and incomprehensible sentences.
|
Grumpy Owly
276
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 07:02:00 -
[37] - Quote
Interesting, 2 long winded campaign posts by Goons that have completley missed the point of the thread.
Please go on, turn this topic into a soap box if you like, but all your demonstrating is a misscomprehension to what is being talked about.
Any candidate can in fact legitimatley campaign how they wish (given CCPs guidance) in order to encourage people to vote for them. Be a pretty redundant and boring process without debate and discussion on the issues in trying to determine those things. So thankyou for defending those principles of democracy, it's encouraging to see.
The point laid out by this topic is to do with dictatting how people should exercise their vote and in this case is NOT atrributable to the Goon alliance anyhow, it was focussed towards other alliances. And as such was to do with trying to influence how others should exercise their voting.
And since we have had a number of debates about freedom to vote for who we choose, which is a common message echoed from the Goon community it was therefore a hypocritical view to take. And as such could be viewed as a double standard which could undermine the validity of that previous argument's platform for how the electorate system is supposed to work as a result.
The question that was posed that I found interesting is why is it so much of a potential problem for the Goons to all of a sudden attempt to discredit this freedom of voting as a result with their own interpretation which contradicts their previous position. However, the question was asked and confirmed not to be the case so, isn't an issue as I understand it? Unless of course your now saying you wish to retract those views and suggest that democratic freedoms should be curtailed.
At this stage I'll put it down to being drunk, as was remarked by one, or not understanding the points made, as seems the obvious interpretation based on comments.
Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Grumpy Owly
276
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 07:09:00 -
[38] - Quote
ThisIsntMyMain wrote:Devilish Ledoux wrote:If I understand the OP's 'logic' correctly, Good luck with that. I think we've already established that the OP is a conspiracy nut with an anti Mittens agenda hidden behind very long and incomprehensible sentences.
Actually no. You'll find that people who have been following this years election will know my stance on the Mittani's campaign, and is in no way hidden.
But this thread isnt or wasn't specifically about candidate preference. It's about democratic values, and to reitterate, those concerned have allready heavily aired in favour of allowing freedom in voting in their arguments. So their values were already presented on the subject, which again is the whole point about the thread you seem to missunderstanding.
Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Grumpy Owly
278
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 10:25:00 -
[39] - Quote
Attempt at a shorter revised form about the thread to help with explanation:
Lets keep voting free and refrain from "dictating" how we should apply voter choice.
Obviously as part of election campaigning you are allowed if not encouraged to "inform" about candidacy positions to influence said voter choice.
We talked a lot about voting practices, models and free voting in a number of threads which supported the above idea in principal. And is consistent with CCP guidelines as set out in the CSM white paper.
As such to maintain the integrity of those views can we please respect democratic choices.
Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Grumpy Owly
278
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 10:53:00 -
[40] - Quote
If bored to your pants by this discussion I can certainly sympathise.
As a suggestion to provide some levity and new experiences, the following can be used as an analogy of my interpretation of trying to rationalise sometimes on EvE forums:
"Smearing mushy peas under both armpits and running headlong into a brick wall whilst shouting your a waffle toaster"
(Warning helmets not provided)
Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous
Late Night Alliance
121
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 11:44:00 -
[41] - Quote
Honestly, all political :stuff: is Electorate manipulation. It's not just the Goons who do it. It's all of the CSM7 candidates. It's republicans. It's democrats. Every move a politician makes whether its for an internet spaceship discussion-board chair or for a real-world governmental doo-hickey is trying to manipulate people to vote for him, work for him, etc etc.
This isn't a ~bad~ thing, it's just how politics work, how social dynamics works.
Trying to present it in a negative light and attribute it to the Goons is kind of silly.
Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7 |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
3068
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 11:53:00 -
[42] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:guys guys guys, people voting in an election is a manipulation
(assuming you don't like them, and there's more of them than you)
Asking people to vote for someone you like is manipulation. Voting in an election is rigging.
Try and keep up.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I
Ineluctable.
58
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 13:12:00 -
[43] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:[quote=Grumpy Owly]
Should all players as part of the electorate be allowed to freely express their opinions for candidates as they prefer?
As long as they clearly state it's their opinion and don't state things as a fact unless they have absolute proof. Else you are very likely only slandering.
|
Grumpy Owly
279
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 16:17:00 -
[44] - Quote
Vordak Kallager wrote:Honestly, all political :stuff: is Electorate manipulation. It's not just the Goons who do it. It's all of the CSM7 candidates. It's republicans. It's democrats. Every move a politician makes whether its for an internet spaceship discussion-board chair or for a real-world governmental doo-hickey is trying to manipulate people to vote for him, work for him, etc etc.
This isn't a ~bad~ thing, it's just how politics work, how social dynamics works.
Trying to present it in a negative light and attribute it to the Goons is kind of silly.
Except that we had forumlated some kind of common understanding of how this democratic process is supposed to work. It was/is kind of a common understanding we had all agreed on.
Trying to bring in campigning influences is largley irrelevant to the point I have been trying to make here. And yet it consistently seems to be thrown in due to a missunderstanding to the issue being made, despite my points to suggest that it isnt an issue.
Goons and others alike all essentially shouting down calls previously in other threads to change the process because the importance of free voting rights and democratic freedom to choose your prefered candidate.
This "agreed" understanding i think we share hasnt been corrupted (except for the potential hic-up that was identified and clarified above as not a problem).
So the important question then:
Do Goons still stand behind the freedom to exercise voting choice? As objections to these principles make me question this.
Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Grumpy Owly
279
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 16:20:00 -
[45] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:The Mittani wrote:guys guys guys, people voting in an election is a manipulation
(assuming you don't like them, and there's more of them than you) Asking people to vote for someone you like is manipulation. Voting in an election is rigging.Try and keep up.
Suggest re-reading my points then, as I have gone out of my way to make a distinction between valid campaigning influences and dissrespecting our democratic process.
Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
5477
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 20:44:00 -
[46] - Quote
This guy is all over Jita Park ever since he was outed as an altposter writing about 'Punktani', it's absolutely adorable.
Never stop posting, Grumpy Owly!
The Office of the Chairman: A Thread for Constituent Issues |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
190
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 21:21:00 -
[47] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:(trying to avoid political theory debate)
We've been over this...
ThisIsntMyMain wrote:So you opt out of replying to Malcanis by saying you "don't want to discuss democratic political theory" - in a thread that you started, with the purpose of debating how you think a group of people are manipulating a political process i.e. discussing democratic political theory.
Take all the tech
Build all the titans
Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Xolve
The Suicide Kings
Test Alliance Please Ignore
945
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 21:21:00 -
[48] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Asking people to vote for someone you like is manipulation. Voting in an election is rigging.
Try and keep up.
Sorry I can't hear you over the sound of your alliance mates ship's exploding.
Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
Grumpy Owly
281
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 21:40:00 -
[49] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:(trying to avoid political theory debate) We've been over this... ThisIsntMyMain wrote:So you opt out of replying to Malcanis by saying you "don't want to discuss democratic political theory" - in a thread that you started, with the purpose of debating how you think a group of people are manipulating a political process i.e. discussing democratic political theory.
Yes we have as can be seen from a much earlier point that I made prior to all the "baiting".
Grumpy Owly wrote:I personally dont want to get heavily embroiled in debating political theory for the CSM process. Firstly because moderators have asked us not to do so, and secondly I'm really not interested in that level of mental ************ about the philosophy of what democracy really means. I'd rather try and enjoy my time in EvE
Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Grumpy Owly
281
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 22:11:00 -
[50] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:This guy is all over Jita Park ever since he was outed as an altposter writing about 'Punktani', it's absolutely adorable.
Never stop posting, Grumpy Owly!
I honestly wasn't aware that propoganda label had stuck to anything.
But then I'm more interested in ideas and looking at a candidates solid manifesto that shows an actual associated support to something than just popularity contests as a foundation for campaigning. 
BTW, have you picked out a nice brown overcoat for your new "caretaker" role yet?
Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Groperson
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
26
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 22:43:00 -
[51] - Quote
Hey, how is the most people in eve history voting for the person they want as CSM chairman electoral manipulation? |
Grumpy Owly
281
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 22:46:00 -
[52] - Quote
Groperson wrote:Hey, how is the most people in eve history voting for the person they want as CSM chairman electoral manipulation?
Since its not and you have missinterpreted the whole thread.
Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
ThisIsntMyMain
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
95
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 01:25:00 -
[53] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Groperson wrote:Hey, how is the most people in eve history voting for the person they want as CSM chairman electoral manipulation? Since its not and you have missinterpreted the whole thread.
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1684
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 01:44:00 -
[54] - Quote
So have we finally arrived at the bottom of the barrel for reasons to be mad about Goons?
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
ThisIsntMyMain
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
95
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 01:45:00 -
[55] - Quote
Don't be daft, there's no bottom to that barrel |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1684
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 01:49:00 -
[56] - Quote
I guess I should have specified "reasons grounded in reality".
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
234
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 01:51:00 -
[57] - Quote
All this shrill goonie shitposting ITT:
It smacks of desperation to me.
What are you guys so afraid of, all of a sudden?
I are kyute kitten!
I are in ur mishun!
Redoosin' teh lag by ninja'ing ur wrekz!
(CCP: Make wrecks probable, and after 30min., tractorable.) |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1686
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 02:00:00 -
[58] - Quote
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:What are you guys so afraid of, all of a sudden?
Sunlight and fresh air.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
234
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 02:20:00 -
[59] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:What are you guys so afraid of, all of a sudden? Sunlight and fresh air.
That goes without saying; Besides that, I mean.
I are kyute kitten!
I are in ur mishun!
Redoosin' teh lag by ninja'ing ur wrekz!
(CCP: Make wrecks probable, and after 30min., tractorable.) |
Sidus Sarmiang
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 02:37:00 -
[60] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:I guess I should have specified "reasons grounded in reality".
This is about as grounded in reality as the idea that goons are trying to suffocate everyone by breathing all oxygen. |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |