I dont think they should, but if you can site someone who does other than personal support for a candidate I'd equally see it as an attempt to discredit voter choice.

I mean people are calling for voters rights and to go to the ballot box in a fair manner. Such that the representation should be afforded by this process. And each time someone throws out a thread about our diplomatic process and changing it, the argument is to select a candidate using the voting process.

Now I see Goons feel sufficiently arrogant to judge other people's voting choices as invalid. So on the same token should we now go back to these representation arguments and re-discover opinions about any power bloc voting?

I don't think you'd like to somehow. So why the double standard?


No it's not hard at all. You simply want to influence voter choice.

Presumably as your equally hoping to establish the Mittani's call for an unparralled victory to ensure his chairmanship. So why can't alliances equally tactically vote for an alternative candidate? See, still a double standard.

Not sure wether it's fair to build your big pile of hubris in this thread however, perhaps we should start a new thread about it in the CSM forum?

an officer of the Goons

and it all went downhill from there - I'm not a director or "officer" or whatever

and it all went downhill from there - I'm not a director or "officer" or whatever

Ah very well, despite your comments in the EvE Uni channel about being a recruitment representative. No matter I shall change the discrepancy for accuracy as requested.

(Please dont see this as a personal attack Andski, not intended, but I think it's fair to discuss the potential shift in opinion on the subject. As such i want to make a discussion on ensuring democratic values and not personal opinion)

If you are clarifying this is a personal stance and not relevant as a Goon initiative then I think there is likley little concern about it other than personal views. If so can you comment to that effect?

I said that Raiden and NCdot publicly announcing their support of Elise for CSM would just backfire when the typical Jita Park lurkers refuse to vote for any "aligned" candidates, and votes that would otherwise go to him would end up going to hopeless candidates or, ugh, Xenuria or D3.

I don't see why I need to clarify that. This isn't "electorate manipulation," it's a fact. Most unaligned voters refuse to vote for bloc candidates.

Feel free to bring any further allegations my way under your main. And I don't mean your "Venus Rinah" or "Pelador Rova" characters. Certainly not Shazam whatever.

Should all players as part of the electorate be allowed to vote freely for the candidate they prefer?

You are aware that that is the case, right? Nobody is forced to vote for anyone.

You are aware that that is the case, right? Nobody is forced to vote for anyone.

Thank you for explaning your stance.

So to round things off, can I ask you to answer the following question if anything to put the issue to bed.

Should all players as part of the electorate be allowed to vote freely for the candidate they prefer?

To round things off, can I ask you to answer the following question if anything to put the issue to bed:

Should all players as part of the electorate be allowed to freely express their opinions for candidates as they prefer?

Freedom of expression is fundamental to a democratic process.

This doesn't retract from the hypocrasy potentially identified that in many discussions we have had about the CSM electorate system. The influential concluded opinion seems to be to ensure full entitlement to vote freely, which I personally agree with, and this is/was the main argument supported. And as such the subject of representation is as a result based on the ballot box. This was as an objection placed by others to the influences of power bloc voting and as such is very relevant to the topic of discussion that caused concern as to why I thought a double standard was being exercised.

Freedom of expression is fundamental to a democratic process.

This doesn't retract from the hypocrasy potentially identified that in many discussions we have had about the CSM electorate system. The influential concluded opinion seems to be to ensure full entitlement to vote freely, which I personally agree with, and this is/was the main argument supported. And as such the subject of representation is as a result based on the ballot box. This was as an objection placed by others to the influences of power bloc voting and as such is very relevant to the topic of discussion that caused concern as to why I thought a double standard was being exercised.

As much as I'm reluctant to suggest it as I would like to see our democratic process continue to its conclusion, does this mean we should now open the book again on all those representation discussions accordingly,

No, it doesnt. People are arguing about who to vote for. That's democracy. They're allowed to. Whats your problem?

... I seriously hope not, and hope its a case of allowing democracy to take its course.

Allow me to rephrase ....

No, it doesnt. People are arguing about who to vote for. That's democracy. They're allowed to. So why are you reviving the topic of screwing with the voting system which we both think is a ~dumb idea~?

does this mean we should now open the book again on all those representation discussions

Since half of those "representation discussions" were about skewing the voting system so that ~hi sec players~ got ~hi-sec candidates~ and not ~evil goons~ on the CSM then No - we shouldn't open the book again.

Goons aren't "manipulating the electorate" any more than I am by shiptoasting in bad threads. If somebody thinks that the Mysterious Illuminati of goonswarm leadership, the secret leaders of PL, or the high command of CVA can somehow force members of those respective player groups to vote for candidate A, then I cant help them.

Maybe you should answer Malcanis' points too.

Since half of those "representation discussions" were about skewing the voting system so that ~hi sec players~ got ~hi-sec candidates~ and not ~evil goons~ on the CSM then No - we shouldn't open the book again.

Goons aren't "manipulating the electorate" any more than I am by shiptoasting in bad threads. If somebody thinks that the Mysterious Illuminati of goonswarm leadership, the secret leaders of PL, or the high command of CVA can somehow force members of those respective player groups to vote for candidate A, then I cant help them.

So you opt out of replying to Malcanis by saying you "don't want to discuss democratic political theory" - in a thread that you started, with the purpose of debating how you think a group of people are manipulating a political process i.e. discussing democratic political theory.

The irony of Grumpy Owly accusing others of manipulating the ~electorate~ while having a "stop CSM apathy" blog trying to do exactly what he is outlining does not escape me.

guys guys guys, people voting in an election is a manipulation

(assuming you don't like them, and there's more of them than you)

Cynical - I think a lot of people in various alliances will do exactly as they are told and vote for whom their leaders tell them to vote for.

all GOONS are forced to get vaKKKcinated when they join by the enforcement directive in addition to a "security" deposit which is spend on ships for the directors. not for DISEASE which the vakkkcines actually CAUSE, but for CONTROL OF VOTES with advanced computer algorithms perfected by the mayans.