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IIIQIII
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Posted - 2004.04.19 06:02:00 -
[1]
i address this post to the makers of the game...
guys.. i thought 1.0 systems are safe... well it seems that it's not the case.. pirates practice the kamikaze frigate and kill off innocent players... right in front of the sentry gun...
couldn't you somehow make an anti-firing system. that blocks or shoots down incoming missiles?
it hurts the gameplay to know that your not safe in any system...and your loosing players not gaining new ones.. by letting this...bullsh*t go on
regards
Q
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I... watch over humanity as it's ignorance and stupidity amuse me...
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Negotiator
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Posted - 2004.04.19 06:04:00 -
[2]
it helps the gameplay, stop whining plz - this verbal diaria got to stop...3 threads already...
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Dekar
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Posted - 2004.04.19 06:18:00 -
[3]
Actually, is suiciding in kestrels in >0.5 considered exploiting?
I'd really like to know.
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Lying Scumbag |
Emil Antonowsky
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Posted - 2004.04.19 07:25:00 -
[4]
Care to start a few more?
Copy&Paste for my pleasure
No better way to steal money than free enterprise. |
Polux
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Posted - 2004.04.19 09:47:00 -
[5]
It's just wrong not been able to kill you in 1,0 space, losing ships is a big part of the game, plz quit the game rater then overfloat us with Topics about you been ****ed, we don't care.
 Quote:
I want a enjoyable GAME, not a game for people who take advantage!
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Zen Jakkaru
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Posted - 2004.04.19 11:07:00 -
[6]
Aslong as they loose their ships to CONCORD or sentry guns, its perfectly legal. 
Har-de-fraggin'-har-har!
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Nervar
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Posted - 2004.04.19 11:32:00 -
[7]
Sentrys will fire at misilles and has done so for a long time, but thats matter when you have 2 kessies with combined 8 cruise misilles firing at you from 0 meters
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What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
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Dezzyb0y
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Posted - 2004.04.19 11:44:00 -
[8]
People really should stop moaning at pirates... everyones out to make money and have fun in eve people should accept the wishes of others and realise piracy is a job too (sounds a bit hypocritical doesnt it =) ) Same way u get robbers and theives in real life u get them on eve... please dont moan i'm getting bored of it... i'm sure others are too, fight back if u want to do something dont spam meaningless crap on the forums.
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K4rls 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Republic Fleet Testing Facilities, wrecking for 1395.9 damage
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Easy Target
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Posted - 2004.04.19 12:46:00 -
[9]
Quote:
Sentrys will fire at misilles and has done so for a long time, but thats matter when you have 2 kessies with combined 8 cruise misilles firing at you from 0 meters
i dont think missiles get shot down now. due to missiles being un targettable now.. i believe...
althought why they changed that god only knows... :)
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No i'm not good... but i have never claimed to be
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Moments of genius |
pyrross
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Posted - 2004.04.19 13:02:00 -
[10]
The discussion about this tactic is just gonna cause more people to do it.... good job IIIQIII and all those that have raised the topic!!
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.04.19 13:09:00 -
[11]
Quote:
People really should stop moaning at pirates... everyones out to make money and have fun in eve people should accept the wishes of others and realise piracy is a job too (sounds a bit hypocritical doesnt it =) ) Same way u get robbers and theives in real life u get them on eve... please dont moan i'm getting bored of it... i'm sure others are too, fight back if u want to do something dont spam meaningless crap on the forums.
The point is you CAN'T fight back. And in 1.0 there's not supposed to be any fighting like that, you take it to 0.0 or the 0.1-0.4 belts and you're a pirate, suiciding a kestrel in yulai has nothing to do with being a pirate.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Raeff
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Posted - 2004.04.19 14:28:00 -
[12]
the problem is you CAN NOT fight back .. atleast supposedly till shiva comes out .. you can have a 500 BS escort and it dont mean jack s**t atm .. its an obvious problem but ccp eventually has to kiss some pirate butt like they did carebears when they up'd the sentry range so until shiva we are s**t outa luck cause ccp dont give a damn ... that a simple enough answer?
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Bellicose
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Posted - 2004.04.19 14:36:00 -
[13]
Quit the goddamn whining and start carebear mining
Who needs a shovel when you have a nice big cannon?
KittenArmy
capn' crimson |
Mitchello
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Posted - 2004.04.19 15:06:00 -
[14]
Quote:
People really should stop moaning at pirates... everyones out to make money and have fun in eve people should accept the wishes of others and realise piracy is a job too (sounds a bit hypocritical doesnt it =) ) Same way u get robbers and theives in real life u get them on eve... please dont moan i'm getting bored of it... i'm sure others are too, fight back if u want to do something dont spam meaningless crap on the forums.
except that you can't properly fight back against people who abuse the game system with alts in kestrels. I suppose if one were also "play" the system with alts designed to kill alts at gates that might help...but the sheer volume of people willing to play EVE "that" way is the same as why when you drop money on the ground in RL you will lose it...its just a matter of time before someone comes along and steals it and then justifies it to them selves...kinda like here when people say, "CCP doesn't stop it with game coding so it is okay," or "hey I'm a pirate its legitimate to be this sad ass lame," or "Hey I'm a rebel living out side of the system, care bears suck," or, "But it said on the box I can be a pirate" or any of the other lines of tripe people use to justify their actions.
When I am handed the tool, the proper and effective tool, to squash these low end thieves, they will be squish. But since they are protected by a faulty system just like Alt wars are.
And let me reiterate I have done things about them, and my corp mates have too. We have caused quite a bit of death to these ôcampersö but there are always more people willing to jump in the soup line rather than get some pants on and go out in to, at least, 0.4 space and ransom cans or shoot defenseless miners. Heaven forbid pirates actually get some cajones and go to 0.0...but then we would see triple the threads about how unfair it is that the alliances have 30 battleships and I canÆt fight themà
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Tysure Rhaos
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Posted - 2004.04.19 15:12:00 -
[15]
So many people are confusing this game with Trammel :P
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Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2004.04.19 15:27:00 -
[16]
Quote:
it helps the gameplay, stop whining plz - this verbal diaria got to stop...3 threads already...
Sorry man, i agree with your general stance most of the time but, this in no way helps the gameplay for anyone but the griefers. It's absolutely idiotic that someone can come to the "police" and "sentries" for the 5th time in an hour without getting shot at by said police until AFTER they've killed someone for the 5th time in an hour. It's ludicrous.
What would help gameplay MORE would be no sentires or CONCORD there at all, because all it does is prevent these n00b players from getting someone to help them fight back, for mercs to hire themselves out as escort and protection, etc.
I mean would you really rather suicide an endless string of kestrels, or actually teach n00bs how to fight
I got stuck in the madness yesterday and spent some quality time with my alt. People are stupid-sick of this crap. New players are frustrated and ganged up in bunches, ready to fight, but castrated by CONCORD 'cause they can't fire unless fired on, and no kestreljerk is dumb enough to fire on the ARMED ships.
And even when they can return fire - big deal, sentries gank them, there's not even a fight for them there.
In particular a small group of n00bcorp folks tried to **** off some griefcampers enough to goad them into attacking. unless the campers are new at this and fall for it, which happens like 1% of the time, all these players can do - in their armed ships, LOOKIN for some action in this pvp game and 1km from hostiles - is sit and watch or sacrifice themselves by getting in the way of the missiles/splash so the guns go off sooner.
This is really lame. The police can't protect you, they can only punish you over the corpse of your victim. This is a little too realistic for my gaming tastes . As it stands, CONCORD defends criminals, period. It's flawed. It doesn't suit the purpose it was designed for.
Even if it did, there is no valid defense for n00bs in frickin' Velators in 1.0 frickin' Empire Capital space getting popped while surrounded by CONCORD battleships and his own government's navy by some moron who's been doing this all day and can't think of anything better to do with his time, and 133 people in corpchat have to tell the guy "uh sorry, can't help you, tough luck there least you didn't lose much."
I don't see how you can defend the reality of this situation in the slightest. This is NOT piracy; it's not even PvP. And it's an insult to eveyone who IS a pirate that these ****s can keep doing this.
Someone wandered into 0.0 and complained loud and long in n00bchat, and was quite rightly laughed into silence. This is not the same. And you know it.
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2004.04.19 15:28:00 -
[17]
Quote:
It's just wrong not been able to kill you in 1,0 space
EXACTLY.
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
odin hammer
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Posted - 2004.04.19 15:33:00 -
[18]
moaning and whining is just part of growing up i did it
and u did it as a noob, beside the point.
shotting someone in 1.0 has serious affect on the pirate
he drops in security stats and cant continue doing that
for long it just isint worth it unless u use a ship scanner and patience with a m8t ready to pick up for u.
i recommend people to relax and dont say anything in local
u might regret later on, let action talk not foul mouth
im no angel my self
Respectfull Mermaid of Curse Alliance |
Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2004.04.19 15:43:00 -
[19]
Quote:
shotting someone in 1.0 has serious affect on the pirate
No it doesn't. Especially since he's using an alt throwaway character.
Quote:
it just isint worth it unless u use a ship scanner and patience with a m8t ready to pick up for u.
that's what we're discussing... thanks for sharing 
kindly read the actual discussion before trying to impress us with how hard and jaded you are
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Lilan Kahn
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Posted - 2004.04.19 16:00:00 -
[20]
cruise missels alts take too long to make, also under the new rulls you loss 0.5% sec for killing a indy(any ship) in empire space, but um cord stays on you for abut 2-3 hours after you killed some one so its not like you can do it 4-6 times a hour....
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2004.04.19 16:21:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Bad Harlequin on 19/04/2004 16:24:23
that's fascinating, but 2-3 people with 2 useless alts each can do precisely that. Kindly come and see for yourself as i did before you declare it's impossible .
And again, and i don't know how often this needs to be said before it sinks in, there is NO DEFENSE against this. Hello? Your argument rests on "it's inconvenient for the hostile." Okay, well, assuming he decides it isn't all that inconvenient and does it anyway, what POSSIBLE defense do the hordes of newbies, and not carebears but like bona-fide new players, have against this? None whatsoever.
Your second paragraph also makes no sense in this context. It has nothing to do with sitting, UNTOUCHABLE, at a gate for 5 minutes or 5 hours as you choose, until you decide to pop some indy or n00bfrig for fun or something. As romantic as that description of the assassin sounds, it has not one iota to do with what's actually going on. These aren't sleek hit'n'run assassins, they are fat gatecampers.
How are you supposed to sell the idea that some poor git who just got his first cruiser is, what, not supposed to leave the system until the gankers get bored and leave?
Make it hard, make it challenging, make it messy, just make it POSSIBLE. We keep hearing about how nothing should be without risk. Paper risk is not risk. 200k and some sec points to an alt is not risk. As long as there is at least a CHANCE of stopping these attacks as they happen, that's fine. Right now there is NONE.
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Lilan Kahn
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Posted - 2004.04.19 16:38:00 -
[22]
you cant kil any thing bigger than indys or frigs *gasp* and yes i have seen it, also assin part is my signatur, also the kestrell thingi 4 cruise missels cant kil the bigger indys (mamoths, mk 5 badger mk2) then agin i must be a clueless noob....
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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Ishkur
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Posted - 2004.04.19 17:06:00 -
[23]
Quote:
you cant kil any thing bigger than indys or frigs *gasp* and yes i have seen it, also assin part is my signatur, also the kestrell thingi 4 cruise missels cant kil the bigger indys (mamoths, mk 5 badger mk2) then agin i must be a clueless noob....
All due respect, you're arguing that problem is fine because all they can do is gank noobs? That's precisely the problem.
The people with battleships who are defending this have it easy -- because they aren't the victims.
If you've been playing EVE for 4 hours, and your first experience in the game is getting blasted at the gate in safe space, that's not a good message. That's BAD for the game.
1.0 systems exist FOR A REASON. And that reason is to specifically prevent the kinds of things we're seeing now.
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Lilan Kahn
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Posted - 2004.04.19 17:29:00 -
[24]
blasting noobs is point as in it dont return the pay you put in to it sure some may not care beat ganking that indy with 100m owrth of stuf or mister noob in his shiny velator i know what i woud pick...
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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Ishkur
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Posted - 2004.04.19 17:48:00 -
[25]
Quote:
blasting noobs is point as in it dont return the pay you put in to it sure some may not care beat ganking that indy with 100m owrth of stuf or mister noob in his shiny velator i know what i woud pick...
People don't do things just for the cost/benefit analysis. They do it becuase for them, blowing up noobs in 1.0 systems is fun. The cost to outfit a kestrel with cruise missles is minimal.
As I understood your argument, it wasn't a problem because they could only gank noobs or light industrials (which isn't true, if they use multiple kestrels with cruise missles they can easily take down higher level industrials).
My counter-argument is that attacking noobs or people who can't fly an Iteron Mk V (which they also blow up, see the General Discussion forums) is actually *more* serious than ganking experienced players in battleships. As a GAME, EVE needs to be fun enough for the first 10 days to get someone to commit to pay for it. If they get ganked at 1.0 gates, the chance of them subscribing is somewhat diminished.
That's why starting sectors are 1.0 sectors, and not 0.0 sectors.
Attacking people in 1.0 space who you are not at war with should not be possible. And if it is, the consequences should be SEVERE (which they currently are not).
In fact, they probably aren't even taking the security hits due to the bug where you can attack people over and over and take a max of a -0.5% hit (which barely even moves the bar).
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Polux
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Posted - 2004.04.19 18:12:00 -
[26]
Quote:
Quote:
Sentrys will fire at misilles and has done so for a long time, but thats matter when you have 2 kessies with combined 8 cruise misilles firing at you from 0 meters
i dont think missiles get shot down now. due to missiles being un targettable now.. i believe...
althought why they changed that god only knows... :)
They send out defender missiles now.
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Lilan Kahn
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Posted - 2004.04.19 18:15:00 -
[27]
okay so you dont like ppl get trahsed in 1.0 but plz stop they "they are ebil they gank noob argument" as its hardly true in 99% of the cases as its indys that are geting killed due to high value crago or am i totaly geting things wrong dont think so at any rate...
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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Beringe
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Posted - 2004.04.19 18:19:00 -
[28]
Quote:
It's just wrong not been able to kill you in 1,0 space, losing ships is a big part of the game, plz quit the game rater then overfloat us with Topics about you been ****ed, we don't care.
Gotta agree with Polux here. No part of EVE should be 100% safe.
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"My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
PaulLRyan
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Posted - 2004.04.19 18:33:00 -
[29]
OK - I just gotta say something here. The problem is not the sec loss, the cost of the suicide set up, the destruction of noobs. The problem is alt characters. You can create as many of these as you like on one account.
A simple solution would be to restrict the alts. I'm not against alts at all. If you want to explore different lifestyles within EVE they are great. What I don't understand is why they are 'throw away'.
Perhaps a rule something like - After you delete an alt you have to wait a month (or whatever) before you can create a new character in that slot. Shouldn't harm the people using alts as they were intended but would stop this 'no risk, no problem' creation of suicide pilots.
Any comments......
===============================================
2004.07.04 20:52:32 combat Your 720mm Prototype I Siege Cannon perfectly strikes Blood Raider, wrecking for 417.6 damage.
===============================================
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Ishkur
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Posted - 2004.04.19 19:04:00 -
[30]
Quote:
OK - I just gotta say something here. The problem is not the sec loss, the cost of the suicide set up, the destruction of noobs. The problem is alt characters. You can create as many of these as you like on one account.
A simple solution would be to restrict the alts. I'm not against alts at all. If you want to explore different lifestyles within EVE they are great. What I don't understand is why they are 'throw away'.
Perhaps a rule something like - After you delete an alt you have to wait a month (or whatever) before you can create a new character in that slot. Shouldn't harm the people using alts as they were intended but would stop this 'no risk, no problem' creation of suicide pilots.
Any comments......
I understand your perspective, but frankly I think you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. CCP already did this by requiring a 10 hour wait to create a new character (which hurts noobs significantly, as most new people like to play a while with the character creator before they settle on their final choice).
Restricting it further, say to a month, just makes it so that people can create a second account (which many of these people do anyway, so they are not "true" alts). Pay month-to-month, and by the time your character has screwed up their sec status too bad (which will likely take that long, if not longer, if CCP doesn't get off their hands and fix the security status loss bugs), your month is up and you just start over.
I don't think alts are the problem. Nobody -- not alts, not true noobs -- should be able to inflict that kind of damage in a disposable ship.
CCP wanted to remove cruise missles from frigates, but they backed down in the face of angry players who wanted to be able to put high-damage weapons on cheap ships. CCP should have trusted their gut on this one.
If you want to train an alt for weeks to get to the point where you can do this, I say go for it.
But right now, the risk/reward is all screwed up! Surely we can all see that. An industrial V has put a lot of investment into his ship and skills, and can lose it all to a guy with 2 weeks of skill training and 120k?
That's the issue of risk vs. reward. These guys ganking people in 1.0 have no real risk, and the reward is astounding! That's what is problematic, and that's why this problem needs a fix soon.
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