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i thought 1.0 systems ARE safe!!!

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Eris Discordia	Posted - 2004.04.19 19:11:00 - [31] If kestrel alts are such a problem in 1.0 perhaps you should bring up the subject during CSM question sessions. I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage Mail [email protected] if you have any questions.
Lilan Kahn	Posted - 2004.04.19 20:09:00 - [32] i might add i was poddet by a cuppel of kestrells in yulia dont mind and dont care, omg a victem syaing she dosnt feel violated omg hax !! Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Darken Two	Posted - 2004.04.19 20:49:00 - [33] Lilan Khan I am not sure if you entirely understand what the others are discussing here. Most of them have nothing against suicide kestral pilots they are just askin for some form of defense to be available against it. Secondly many others are only against the pointless podding of noobs in 1.0 systems. I dont think anyone was complaining about ur romantic notion of assasins. If you are indeed trying to flame atleast do so on matters that bear some passing reference to the topic under discussion. Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!!
Lilan Kahn	Posted - 2004.04.19 21:20:00 - [34] make a alt to kil the alts there you go have fun.... Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Ulendar	Posted - 2004.04.19 21:29:00 - [35] Quote: My counter-argument is that attacking noobs or people who can't fly an Iteron Mk V (which they also blow up, see the General Discussion forums) is actually more serious than ganking experienced players in battleships. As a GAME, EVE needs to be fun enough for the first 10 days to get someone to commit to pay for it. If they get ganked at 1.0 gates, the chance of them subscribing is somewhat diminished. Uhm well... GOOD! Then they wont have to subscribe to this system and then whine and moan that the game isnt what they expected right? If they get blown up in their trial period they will know this is a dangerous game and they can decide on the basis of that wether they like the game or not! If they spend their trial in perfect safety and then sign up they just end up whining about PVP on the forums and ruining it for everyone else who likes PVP Originally by: cashman It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this. It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
NAFnist	Posted - 2004.04.19 21:33:00 - [36] I agree that a player shouldn't be safe, but there has to be a noob safe zone. Otherwise no new players will come. _____________
Emil Antonowsky	Posted - 2004.04.19 21:38:00 - [37] The highways should be dangerous, not a place to fly afk. There is a way to get instant revenge. But, since you cant think of it (and no it doesnt involve losing your ships or declaring war) I'm not going to tell you. TomB has stated time and time again that lone indys are to be targets. Just because some ppl think up new ideas doesnt make it illegal. We are not disposable alts. Others may be, we are not. We are privateers who dont even intend to mine. We make our money in different ways. If we just wanted to grief, we wouldnt have formed into a corp, we would be in npc corps. But, I'm sure you never thought of that. No better way to steal money than free enterprise.
Diamond Dog	Posted - 2004.04.19 21:51:00 - [38] Last time I heard.. Podding ppl in 1.0 who are not at war with you was an exploit ________________________________________
Emil Antonowsky	Posted - 2004.04.19 21:52:00 - [39] Not podding anyone. Just cause you think you rember something, doesnt make it so. No better way to steal money than free enterprise.
Lilan Kahn	Posted - 2004.04.19 22:00:00 - [40] its not iligal to pod some one in 1.0, just as loing as you loss your ships every thing is fine Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Clarence Bodicker	Posted - 2004.04.20 01:35:00 - [41] Originally by: Ishkur If you've been playing EVE for 4 hours, and your first experience in the game is getting blasted at the gate in safe space, that's not a good message. That's BAD for the game. There ain't no money in killing noobs, son. -------------------------------------------------- Criminal Connections Rank(3) SP: 76549/768000 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=
Enigma Eight	Posted - 2004.04.20 07:59:00 - [42] What I don't understand with these suicide Kestrals is why the missiles fired even hit the target. When you fire a missile and warp away the missile looses its target (reson for this nerf: maybe because the connection to the guidance system is lost). But why do missiles hit the target when the ship which launched them is destroyed? That makes no sense imho
NAFnist	Posted - 2004.04.20 11:32:00 - [43] Originally by: Clarence Bo**er Originally by: Ishkur If you've been playing EVE for 4 hours, and your first experience in the game is getting blasted at the gate in safe space, that's not a good message. That's BAD for the game. There ain't no money in killing noobs, son. No but someone always will do, like cheaters/teamkillers in FPS games. Just to get ppl annoyed. There's absolutly HAS to be safe zones, tho higways shouldn't be. _____________
Haulerina	Posted - 2004.04.20 11:56:00 - [44] I think the problem is that the coppers/centrys just takes away the gun from the criminal and sends him away to buy a new one. The best solution to the problem is to make 1.0 a nofire-zone where guns are deactivated unless war is declared. It sucks but it is a solution.
Lexus666	Posted - 2004.04.20 13:01:00 - [45] Originally by: Enigma Eight What I don't understand with these suicide Kestrals is why the missiles fired even hit the target. When you fire a missile and warp away the missile looses its target (reson for this nerf: maybe because the connection to the guidance system is lost). But why do missiles hit the target when the ship which launched them is destroyed? That makes no sense imho[/quote As concord won't pod them, they can just hang around 'til the missiles hit then just go and dock. Originally by: Haulerina I think the problem is that the coppers/centrys just takes away the gun from the criminal and sends him away to buy a new one. The best solution to the problem is to make 1.0 a nofire-zone where guns are deactivated unless war is declared. It sucks but it is a solution. In a way I have to agree somewhat with this. God knows I'm no carebear but ther HAS to be a safe haven for new and relatively new people while they get to grips with this harsh game. I'd like to see as many new people joining and staying with the game so it doesn't go the way of E&B but also they will eventually become good players giving us more targets. My 2 penneth, so now you can carry on flaming the poor noobs being ganked by these talentless morons. If they had any balls they'd set their autopilots to "A2-" and come visit us.
DeathGrip	Posted - 2004.04.20 13:57:00 - [46] Far as I can tell, they are not harming the Noobs. They are in noob space yes, but only attacking those with a good Cargo. Example, my Research lab is 17 jumps from my Home. I don't pull out my BS to go this far, I grab a small fast frigate. Why not, I am flying in Secure Space, Right? Well they cargo scan me, see I have a nice little cargo, and KaBoom. Is this right, I don't really think so, and by the way, this has not happend to me, but have seen it happen. I now use interceptors to transfer my stuff, but not sure if they will hold up to 2 or 3 Cruise Missle Attacks. Now if they are doing it to just attack noobs, They are stupid and need to be banned, that is taking money from CCP, and potential Isk from us. Its not a game, Its Life, Experienced Players Belong in 0.0 through 0.6 not 1.0... [i]Everyone needs to bring PVP to the table, Miners, Builders, Researchers, Get yourself a Frig, and help out some, You may even
Harisdrop	Posted - 2004.04.20 18:03:00 - [47] Time to watch for pods. Cause everything is fair. -------------------------- Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies
Mon Palae	Posted - 2004.04.20 19:11:00 - [48] Edited by: Mon Palae on 20/04/2004 19:13:01 Originally by: Emil Antonowsky The highways should be dangerous, not a place to fly afk. There is a way to get instant revenge. But, since you cant think of it (and no it doesnt involve losing your ships or declaring war) I'm not going to tell you. TomB has stated time and time again that lone indys are to be targets. Ok...if we accept that lone indies are to be targets how is it that escorted indies are targets? As mentioned earlier, an indy could have a 100 Elite Frigs, 100 Cruisers and 100 Battleships escorting it in Yulai next to CONCORD headquarters. Kessie flies up to the indy and boom...bye-bye indy and not a damn thing the escorts can do about it unless they want to take a sec hit and lose their ship by shooting any Kestrel within 50km first. And as for "instant revenge" it seems to me that CONCORD takes instant revenge and kill the Kestrel...escorts don't even have time for the fun of killing the Kestrel themselves.
Mon Palae	Posted - 2004.04.20 19:15:00 - [49] Edited by: Mon Palae on 20/04/2004 19:17:48 Originally by: Enigma Eight What I don't understand with these suicide Kestrals is why the missiles fired even hit the target. When you fire a missile and warp away the missile looses its target (reson for this nerf: maybe because the connection to the guidance system is lost). But why do missiles hit the target when the ship which launched them is destroyed? That makes no sense imho The Kestrels do not warp away. They get right on top of the indy and let them have it at point-blank range. Nothing will stop the missiles as they will hit before CONCORD or sentries respond and kill the Kestrel seconds later. It is an exploit to initiate aggression in hi-sec space and avoid CONCORD (which makes no sense but is what it is). Kestrel is knowingly sacrificing their ship for the loot in the indy. A friend nearby comes by and grabs the loot while the Kestrel pilot returns home.
Bad Harlequin	Posted - 2004.04.20 20:19:00 - [50] Originally by: Lilan Kahn you cant kil any thing bigger than indys or frigs gasp and yes i have seen it, also assin part is my signatur, also the kestrell thingi 4 cruise missels cant kil the bigger indys (mamoths, mk 5 badger mk2) then agin i must be a clueless noob.... LOL sorry thought you were quoting that to me as relevant to this topic! Not being able to kill more than indys or frigs is my POINT, it's a n00bwhacking system that has no value whatsoever. You've said nothing that goes against my points raised and failed to address any of them..? You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike.
Bad Harlequin	Posted - 2004.04.20 20:21:00 - [51] Originally by: Lilan Kahn blasting noobs is point as in it dont return the pay you put in to it sure some may not care beat ganking that indy with 100m owrth of stuf or mister noob in his shiny velator i know what i woud pick... i assume you mean "pointless." sort of like this post. You're saying you don't believe it happens...? i'm sorry, whatever your smoking next time bring enough for anyone. Why are you flailing around in this thread..? I'm also having a hard time reading you're posts You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike.
Bad Harlequin	Posted - 2004.04.20 20:25:00 - [52] Originally by: Beringe Quote: It's just wrong not been able to kill you in 1,0 space, losing ships is a big part of the game, plz quit the game rater then overfloat us with Topics about you been ****ed, we don't care. Gotta agree with Polux here. No part of EVE should be 100% safe. sigh, what about 0% safe? as admirable as all the 'looka me i'm so hard me too me too' chime-in posts are, kindly address the actual point and think, for at least 5 solid minutes, wtf is the point of having "CONCORD" protecting the griefers who are sitting in Cist or whatever ganking 3-hour-old players? and if you REALLY think no part of eve should be 100% safe, then why do you disagree with me? 'cause i'm saying it's wrong that the gategankers and his friend in the indy are 100% safe. ONE HUNDRED PERCENT SAFE. They essentially pay a small fee of a few hundred k MAX to loot indies. Their friend the indy pilot pays NOTHING AT ALL, incurs NO sec hit, etc. And they are protected by CONCORD as is the looting indy pilot. hello? I appreciate you are ph34r t3h pvp nerf considering what usually happens when people get up in arms about pirates, but i am trying to ALLOW it here You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike.
D1ck Jones	Posted - 2004.04.20 20:48:00 - [53] You may like to hate us, but a corp m8 of ours even gave the gm's advice on things that could be implimented to make our business less profitable. How many of you can say you'd do that? I had a guaranteed military sale with ED209! Renovation program! Spare parts for 25 years! Who cares if it worked or not!
SKiNNiEH	Posted - 2004.04.20 23:07:00 - [54] Originally by: Bad Harlequin sigh, what about 0% safe? as admirable as all the 'looka me i'm so hard me too me too' chime-in posts are, kindly address the actual point and think, for at least 5 solid minutes, wtf is the point of having "CONCORD" protecting the griefers who are sitting in Cist or whatever ganking 3-hour-old players? and if you REALLY think no part of eve should be 100% safe, then why do you disagree with me? 'cause i'm saying it's wrong that the gategankers and his friend in the indy are 100% safe. ONE HUNDRED PERCENT SAFE. They essentially pay a small fee of a few hundred k MAX to loot indies. Their friend the indy pilot pays NOTHING AT ALL, incurs NO sec hit, etc. And they are protected by CONCORD as is the looting indy pilot. hello? I appreciate you are ph34r t3h pvp nerf considering what usually happens when people get up in arms about pirates, but i am trying to ALLOW it here 100% correct on this one. There should be a safe haven for newbies and veteran players alike, the only exception being official war. I'm paranoid enough when warping through 0.0 as it is... can we all atleast have a little r&r in +.5 systems? :) Hehe.. can you imagine hauling megacyte and zydrine through dangerous 0.0 systems and bottlenecks, only to get blown up by (what i now consider the lowest form of life in EVE, even lower than ore thiefs) a highsec "pirate" in Cist :P -------
Beringe	Posted - 2004.04.20 23:34:00 - [55] Originally by: Bad Harlequin and if you REALLY think no part of eve should be 100% safe, then why do you disagree with me? 'cause i'm saying it's wrong that the gategankers and his friend in the indy are 100% safe. ONE HUNDRED PERCENT SAFE. They essentially pay a small fee of a few hundred k MAX to loot indies. Their friend the indy pilot pays NOTHING AT ALL, incurs NO sec hit, etc. And they are protected by CONCORD as is the looting indy pilot. hello? Ok, good point. I guess the balance of danger in a noob system that I'd like to see is that someone could perform an assassination (of a badly protected target) as long as they pay the price. Perhaps the only real problem here is alts (oh, how I wish to avoid opening that can of worms...we all read the big thread in general). ------------------------------------------- "My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead." "No, it's none of your business."
TrueFlame	Posted - 2004.04.21 02:43:00 - [56] Originally by: PaulLRyan OK - I just gotta say something here. The problem is not the sec loss, the cost of the suicide set up, the destruction of noobs. The problem is alt characters. You can create as many of these as you like on one account. A simple solution would be to restrict the alts. I'm not against alts at all. If you want to explore different lifestyles within EVE they are great. What I don't understand is why they are 'throw away'. Perhaps a rule something like - After you delete an alt you have to wait a month (or whatever) before you can create a new character in that slot. Shouldn't harm the people using alts as they were intended but would stop this 'no risk, no problem' creation of suicide pilots. Any comments...... I'm going to have to agree with you here. While I have never had it happen to me, thankfully, if things keep up... I think restricting alts is a great idea. However, as I see, it you should only be able to switch between characters every 12 hours to a day (you get on one character, you wont be able to get on any other character until that limit has expired). Another would be to carry sec hits over between your three characters - that will discourage some people. Maybe make a character creation timer, where you can only create a character every so often (2 week if I had it my way). Maybe make it so you cant delete an alt who has killed a player in >0.5 systems within the month. Or there are other ways... The thing that gets me (and angers me about just hearing it) is the fact that it is people on their alts doing this are too coward and embarrassed to do it on their main characters (if this is such a valid tactic, then why do you hide behind an alt?). "On a long enough timeline, the survival rate of everyone drops to zero." -Fight Club
DarkStar251	Posted - 2004.04.21 02:52:00 - [57] If you stop suicide kessies, we will just have the 1.0 bship stripminers moaning that they cant stop the ore theives/can killers Much as I hate stripminers in newbie space and like anything that ****es them off, whatever you do to the game you upset someone...
Jul Nantu	Posted - 2004.04.21 03:36:00 - [58] Edited by: Jul Nantu on 21/04/2004 03:40:38 Originally by: Eris Discordia If kestrel alts are such a problem in 1.0 perhaps you should bring up the subject during CSM question sessions. Eris, I did ask this exact question in the first CSM I attended. Hellmar's response was basically that he considered it griefing but that the rules of the game make it 'acceptable' since the attacking player or players lost their ships. Here's a link to the CSM: http://www.evegate.net/exclusives/council021.php This whole issue is really about the imbalance of power between pirates and regular players in 1.0 space. It's obviously a benefit for pirates to be able to do this. I believe that they SHOULD be allowed to do it. The problem is, as many have pointed out earlier in this thread, that in 0.5 to 1.0 space the pirates have an advantage because they are protected. Even after they fire on you, kill you and your clone wants revenge, you still can not initiate agression against them in 0.5+ space. That's the problem. This isn't an issue of traveling AFK. It's not an issue of ship configuration. It's not an issue of having an escort. This is an issue of pirates having an advantage over non-pirate players in Concord protected space. Period. Criminal tagging will help, but until it's introduced, something should be done to make the risk greater for these pirates. Why not make the severity of the security status penalty be based on the system's security rating? Doing bad things in 1.0 space should result in dramatically larger security hits than if you do something bad in 0.5 or 0.1 space. I think that would go a long way towards balancing the risk/reward ratio these pirates are enjoying right now.
TeeTee	Posted - 2004.04.21 06:17:00 - [59] Please dont call these punks pirates or professional criminals it gives the real professional pirates and criminals bad names. They just spoiled kids who never been taught a lesson and I already know the profesional pirates and Law and Order corps going to teach them a fast lesson. I think the solution to this problem is to make alts non recyclable. Then then the kids will have character building experinces for there short life in eve.
Clipped Wings	Posted - 2004.04.21 06:56:00 - [60] ...Pretty much atm, the only thing one could do would be to resort to the same tactics as the kamikazes. Before you go into a system in a hauler, you send in a couple of kestrels with ship scanners, and check whatever Kestrels might be hanging around the gate. If they are fitteed with Cruise missiles, you salt'em. That, of course, isn't kosher either, as they may, or may not, be there for what you think they are... But currently, unless Sentries would start shooting down missiles, there is no way to legally get a Kestrel that's clinging to you, off your back. Now, on the other side, if cargo scanning was to be considered an offensiev act, that way, it would make it at least a bit LESS likely to make them do it...? Sure. then you'd have 1 cargo scanning frigate, 1 kamikaze and 1 hauler....It might help a bit, though. I dunno. It seems like there is nothing to do about it, really...and that bothers me quite much. -Clipped Wings of LFC "I believe in the theoretical benevolence, and practical malignity of man." ~William Hazlitt

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