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Kiki Arnolds
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.04.15 15:44:00 -
[31]
I'm curious about the wardec thing, it sounds like you would cover 0.0 losses, but not cover losses from a formal wardec? It doesn't make that much sense to me... I don't have stastics to back it up, but I'd imagine the vast majority of losses occurs outside highsec, where a wardec isn't really needed. From the standpoint of the insurer, whats the difference between dying in highsec as the result of a wardec, and dying in 0.0 fighting at a gate camp? (formal wardecs don't seem very common in 0.0)
As an asside, I think you may want to add a question to your survey about how you died:
Highsec Suicide (victim)
Highsec Agro Manipulation (Lofty/Canflip/etc victim)
Highsec Can/Wreck Stealing
Wardec
Lowsec Gate/Station Camp
Lowsec other
Nullsec Gate/Station Camp
Nullsec while Roaming
Nullsec while Mining/Ratting
I suspect you would find a strong correlation between frequency of loss and causes of loss
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Finideach
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Posted - 2008.04.15 18:20:00 -
[32]
 Quote:
Highsec Suicide (victim)
Highsec Agro Manipulation (Lofty/Canflip/etc victim)
Highsec Can/Wreck Stealing
Wardec
Lowsec Gate/Station Camp
Lowsec other
Nullsec Gate/Station Camp
Nullsec while Roaming
Nullsec while Mining/Ratting
Great feedback. My thought is once I run the initial demographic is to see where the data leads and follow up. What I'm hoping is that some of the demographic information correlates with the loss rate. For example is a veteran player, long vested in their corporation, with good skillpoints - do they suffer less losses (for any of the above reasons) than a newb rookie moving quickly between corps?
Why not cover wardec when you're covering 0.0 already?
I see it as a change of the "odds" you'll get killed. Although traversing through 0.0 may be dangerous - is a wardec MORE dangerous because now not only can you be killed in all sec's, but folks are actively out there trying to kill you?
Don't know.
Trying to get the data to findout. =) I can see some insurance programs where they'd have an exclusion for deaths in 0.0 - but my bet is that they would so limit themselves in favor of the insurer.
If Eve opened up their data streams to data mine - i.e. give me the last 10,000 ship killmails generated and just strip out victim and perpetrator we could mine that and do analysis. Hrm, maybe that's not a bad thing to ask for...but chances are they won't do it.
Also if anyone else wants to setup surveys or data I'd be happy to walk you through it via polldaddy (very simple) and share results.
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Pang Grohl
Gallente
Sudo Corp
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Posted - 2008.04.15 18:22:00 -
[33]
A couple of years ago I ended up at the same point. Insurance provides direct replacement of lost items, not a cash payment. The thing to solve with this method is point of delivery for the lost items. The customer will want the point of delivery to be as local to them as possible, while the insurer will want a centralized delivery point. Because of this your trial will probably need to be limited to a small number of regions with common borders and short travel times.
***
Si non adjuvas, noces
(If you're not helping, you're hurting)
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Finideach
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Posted - 2008.04.15 18:41:00 -
[34]
In the current policy it's anywhere in High Sec that can be reached without traveling through low-sec or 0.0. Any requests to drop off items in areas that don't fit that criteria would be dropped off in Jita. That may still be too large an area and not serve the -5 or worse crowd that can't get into high sec (assuming you even offer them insurance).
When things get advanced I imagine the distribution/delivery of parts would be outsourced to manufacturers who make the parts. In return for moving a few hundred million of business the way of the manufacturer the insurance company could indicate that the parts should be delivered to X at Y. Some manufacturers may have geographical coverage in some areas, others in other.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.04.15 19:26:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Finideach
In the current policy it's anywhere in High Sec that can be reached without traveling through low-sec or 0.0. Any requests to drop off items in areas that don't fit that criteria would be dropped off in Jita. That may still be too large an area and not serve the -5 or worse crowd that can't get into high sec (assuming you even offer them insurance).
When things get advanced I imagine the distribution/delivery of parts would be outsourced to manufacturers who make the parts. In return for moving a few hundred million of business the way of the manufacturer the insurance company could indicate that the parts should be delivered to X at Y. Some manufacturers may have geographical coverage in some areas, others in other.
You are in the insurance business, not the logistics business.
I recommend two or three distribution centers at the most, people can use courier contracts or pick it up themselves.
Director | www.eve-bank.net
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Finideach
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Posted - 2008.04.15 20:07:00 -
[36]
Do you know of MFG's Hexx who would be wanting to take on the business? I'd much rather outsource manufacturing & delivery to someone who focuses on that as their business model and just request a dropship to the customer or pickup locatoin.
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Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach
Brotherhood of the Spider
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Posted - 2008.04.16 14:29:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 16/04/2008 14:31:31
Originally by: Hexxx
When things get advanced I imagine the distribution/delivery of parts would be outsourced to manufacturers who make the parts. In return for moving a few hundred million of business the way of the manufacturer the insurance company could indicate that the parts should be delivered to X at Y. Some manufacturers may have geographical coverage in some areas, others in other.
You are in the insurance business, not the logistics business.
I recommend two or three distribution centers at the most, people can use courier contracts or pick it up themselves.
Originally by: Finideach
Do you know of MFG's Hexx who would be wanting to take on the business? I'd much rather outsource manufacturing & delivery to someone who focuses on that as their business model and just request a dropship to the customer or pickup locatoin.
That was the next thing I was going to bring up. Considering the vastness of the module market have the ability to produce everything is more then a lofty task.
If you want to be able to try and provide the lost ship and modules then try to find 1-3 manufactures per racial regional that is centered in the regional trading hubs. Try to have most races ships and most popular modules covered and have them provide the modules for replacement at the regional trading hub. If a module or ship comes up that is not available at the time then Jita could be the default pick up.
You are in the insurance buisness and unless the contracts include delivery then it should be up to the pilot to arrange delivery or pick-up. IRL you have to choose a repair shop, have it towed, pay the deductable, and pick up the fixed product. at best you have an Insurance company that may cover with the towing cost, but we have no towing of destroyed ships in EVE. 
Also another thing that popped into my head is to sell coverage at varying levels. Look at the most popular fittings for PvP and PvE and then create an average for the high end ships then work things down from there.
Say..
T1 ship w/ Full T1 fittings = said payout
T1 ship w/ Partial T2 fittings = said payout
T2 ship w/ Full T2 fittings = said payout
T2 ship w/ Full T1 fittings = said payout
T2 ship w/ Partial T2 fittings = said payout
T2 ships w/ Full T2 fittings = said payout
...and so on
Possible have supplemental insurance for individuals that have trained up additional T2 fittings or have the ability to upgrade the coverage.
I do not even know if these options are really viable and make sense but they are some ideas that popped into my head. It is a crazy place, my mind that is .
Slade
P.S. To everyone I would keep in mind that insurance is not available to completely replace said insured items, but to ease the pain of loss/damage of said items. So stick with the KISS principle at the begining then expand. |
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.16 23:13:00 -
[38]
You need to get an Eve actuary involved. :-)
Insurance fraud is always a risk. A few techniques the real world has used to combat it are:
- Claims profiling & investigation
- "Policy in effect" time delays
- Named insured hazards & exclusions
You might want to read up on the topic from real world companies.
http://www.iso.com/
About replacing the lost item(s), I can imagine a few possible problems. First, named modules aren't manufactured per se, so you'd have to buy them off the market from mission/complex runners. This seems a less certain cost than arrangements with manufacturers.
Second, some modules will be destroyed, while others drop as loot. The former are obvious casualty losses, but what of the latter? Seems like an open door for possible "soft" fraud (exaggeration of legitimate claim).
I had an idea for the handling of the deductible if you stick with the "reimburse in kind" model: Pre-bill it. Make the insurance payment consist of the premium and the deductible combined. At the end of the insurance term, if no claim has been filed, then allow the insured to either renew at the cost of premium, or cancel and receive the deductible. At the time of renewal you may need to re-calculate the deductible because of price fluctuations.
MDD |
Finideach
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Posted - 2008.04.17 00:43:00 -
[39]
Thanks for the advice MailDeadDrop. Policy in effect is a fantastic suggestion. The key to scam mitigation in Eve seems to make it more trouble than it's worth for the dedicated griefer, and less payout than it's worth for the greedy thief.
Thanks for the link as well.
I really am naive about the manufacturing side of Eve - I just kind of assume there are a dozen or so big name MFGs out there who you can, between working with a few of them, get most of what you need. That's an area that bears a lot of further research.
As for the paid in deductible I had toyed with the concept of a "captive", an amount surrendered by a player up front as collateral against their future good behavior. This amount is kept over time and earns interest for the insurer, at any point that policies are canceled in good faith the captive is refunded. In the event of scamming and/or defraudment the captive is seized by the insurer.
See my post about the need to profile customers - I heartily agree with this. Any insurer who starts out to insure everyone is begging for heartache.
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MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.17 18:11:00 -
[40]
I've been pondering the issue of dataset (for risk analysis). While you can (and should) ask CCP for a dump of the last 10K kill mails (scrubbed of identities), I, too, doubt that they will provide it. But it cannot hurt to ask.
But, could you perhaps get a dump of the kill mails from the mercenary corps (R.E.P.O., et al.), pirate corps, and from the large at-war alliances (AAA, et al.)? Individually they won't be perfect samples, but combined they might paint a somewhat balanced picture.
MDD |
jongalt
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Posted - 2008.04.17 18:59:00 -
[41]
you might also ask battleclinic or one of the other killboard services, since they "seem" to cater a large variety of different players.
some isk might need to be involved, though.
-jg. |
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.17 21:59:00 -
[42]
Originally by: jongalt
you might also ask battleclinic or one of the other killboard services, since they "seem" to cater a large variety of different players.
That's a great idea. I've asked BattleClinic/Griefwatch: http://www.battleclinic.com/forum/index.php/topic,19936.new.html
MDD |
Finideach
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Posted - 2008.04.18 02:38:00 -
[43]
Let me know if they get you the data - I ran the analysis on the 102 respondents I got from the survey and posted the data up in this other thread. Killboard data would help answer some of the questions of "where does ship loss occur by location or security status of system", "what's the pareto of parts most commonly fitted to ships that were destroyed" etc. etc.
I can run either Minitab or SPC XL on the data and do some serious number crunching in short order.
Does KB data have any information about the pilot (like current security status etc.) other than name? |
jongalt
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Posted - 2008.04.18 03:07:00 -
[44]
im glad i could contribute positively.
btw, chris at battleclinic dot com replied to your forum request and asks that you email him...(in case you didnt see it).
so hopefully you will get the data you need.
-jg. |
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