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Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Volition Cult	Posted - 2008.04.11 19:20:00 - [1] Originally by: Ethen Bejorn Edited by: Ethen Bejorn on 11/04/2008 14:44:45 The only way to show CCP you won't take thier crap is to cancel your account. The fan bois and CCP alts in this thread will attempt to drown our your message with thier idiotic spam. Just cancel your accounts, it is the only way to get CCP to listen. So you've cancelled yours and won't log in again? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Volition Cult	Posted - 2008.04.12 21:31:00 - [2] Sounds like a pretty good game of monopoly. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Volition Cult	Posted - 2008.04.13 17:53:00 - [3] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Karlemgne If you really believe that CCP's song and dance about why time codes for isk are "different" than trading currency for isk, than you are either 1. dumb or 2. a fanboi. Agreed, trading time codes for ISK is not significantly different from trading real-life currency for ISK... for the BUYER. The only (minor) difference is that it gets him less ISK for the same amount of money, but requires a tiny bit more effort... on the flip-side, it's risk-free. For the ISK SELLER however, there's a FREAKING HUGE difference. In the case of GTCs, all he can do is not pay the subscription, in other words, make just enough money out of it as it takes to pay his account(s), but not more. There's no incentive to "keep farming" ISK above and beyond the immediate needs. In the case of RMT, the situation changes radically. There's no limit on the amount of ISK you can exchange for cash, therefore there's no incentive to STOP farming, and farming 23/7 (either via the aid of macros or by sharingthe account) is the order of bussiness. So, if you can't see that, you are either 1. dumb or 2. a RMTer Come now, you've only explained this 8 or 9 times, and it's not as if karlemagne has consistently opposed any player initiatives to combat exploitation of obvious EULA violation. Oh, wait. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Volition Cult	Posted - 2008.04.13 18:22:00 - [4] Originally by: Roy Batty68 Originally by: Cutie Chaser Wow... this isn't something I figured I'd ever have to say, especially considering I usually value my posting privileges, but you are a ******* idiot sir. The people who object to RMT in any form are those people who don't care to see the hard work and damage they've done to an enemy undone by the swipe of a credit card. Blowing up a carrier is great, knowing that the pilot is going to buy a stack of GTCs and be back in it by the next day reduces that feeling of accomplishment. The only way any of the arguments you put forth hold water is with the assumption that RMT are an unstoppable force. Several other game companies do not feel that is the case, and even the CCP continually fights against them. Its a hard fight, but CCP seems to continue to come up with new ways to deal with it, so I'm guessing that THEY haven't given up hope on stopping RMT.... so why have you? Name the game that's gotten rid of it and I'll gladly shut up. Didn't the Runequest guys try by basically removing the player economy? Because even that wouldn't work completely in EvE as long as you can take a ship that someone else has ejected from or loot from a wreck you have destroyed. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Volition Cult	Posted - 2008.04.13 18:24:00 - [5] Patch - in fact governments tolerate any number of crimes that they find convenient to ignore. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Volition Cult	Posted - 2008.04.13 18:38:00 - [6] Originally by: Cutie Chaser Edited by: Cutie Chaser on 13/04/2008 18:35:14 Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Cutie Chaser On the other hand we haven't selectively made murder legal either. So... what are then: * self-defence * the capital punishment * war casualties * war collateral damage Seems to me we DID selectively make murder legal. If you want to make a silly semantic argument out of it, let me edit my post to say ***instead. EDIT I cant say *it seems, by *I mean non-consensual intercourse. Neither ***nor murder are good analogies. Theft would be a better one. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Volition Cult	Posted - 2008.04.13 18:48:00 - [7] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 13/04/2008 18:47:02 Originally by: Malcanis Neither *****nor murder are good analogies. Theft would be a better one. Actually, the much better analogy would be you as a kid paying your neighbour's kid to wash the dishes, mow the lawn or take out the garbage instead of you doing it. Is it wrong ? Yeah, sure, your parents want to teach you the value of work, but you're a lazy bastard. Because that's what ISK-making is basically in EVE... an imposed chore, so that you SELF-VALUE your ISK at a certain level. Heh, remember Tom Sawyer painting Aunt Pol's fence? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Volition Cult	Posted - 2008.04.13 18:51:00 - [8] Originally by: Cutie Chaser Originally by: Malcanis Neither *****nor murder are good analogies. Theft would be a better one. No, its irrelevant. The claim that we still fight things which we cannot stop, rather then giving into them, just would require the example given to fit that criteria. Rape, murder, even theft, all fit this criteria. The point is, morality is situational. Tens of thousands of people, who would presumably consider themselves good, law-abiding morally upstanding citizens wrote in support of pardoning Lt Calley and the other perpetrators of the My Lai massacre, for instance. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Volition Cult	Posted - 2008.04.13 22:28:00 - [9] As a side note, I found out that one of the bitterest critics over CCP's GTC policy and on GMs removing RMT ISK on this forum may have had some... motivation for his attitude. Specifically, being left 6.5 billion in the hole after being caught buying ISK. No need to name names, but I am looking forward to George R R Martin's A Dance With Dragons when it's published.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2008.04.15 08:05:00 - [10] Originally by: Conjure Originally by: Manic Smile Edited by: Manic Smile on 14/04/2008 15:45:55 Originally by: Conjure Let me break it down barney style ...... CCP is a company ...... companies make money, in the end thats all they care about. GTC: They make the money RMT: They loose money by not selling isk themselves. Solution: CCP takes over the only way they can monopolize on people buying isk with making GTC the only LEGAL way to buy isk. Everything else doesnt matter. Morales dont matter, people opinions dont matter, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS just money they make. If you cant handle this truth then sorry, cant help you. Except that CCP happens to be making money and doing better at fighting RMT then any other MMO....HELLO what's the problem. Do you want a moral boss who hurts you or an imoral boss who helps you? At the end of the day when dealing with strangers and companies the results are all that matter. Anyone feeling different is a fool. Now if you have an argument where CCPs currently RMT policy may hurt us in the future lets here it because otherwise they are doing the best thing with a ****** up reality. Yes they are doing a good job at getting rid of RMT in their game ... LOL .... all this does is help them corner the market themselves by diverting it from RMT to GTC. CCP is not high and mighty, or great, or any other idolized ideal of them. Its often those who misplace trust and affection are the ones who end up the most hurt when they realize the truth. For this I am sorry to burst your bubble and make you butthurt. But life/reality/the truth all hurt. Its an evil, cold, dark world out there and only the wicked survive. CCP is indeed wicked in their tactics. Wicked and smart ... I must say I am impressed with their tactics though. You, of course, would never associate with an alliance that was notorious for harbouring ISK-farmers. That would compromise any kind of moral stance you might take on the subject. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.19 20:40:00 - [11] Originally by: Conjure You, of course, would never associate with an alliance that was notorious for harbouring ISK-farmers. That would compromise any kind of moral stance you might take on the subject. If your going to insult me, don't do it by hiding behind the alliance I am in. come up with something original or actually hurtful. Its clear that by instead of coming back with a counter point you resort to insults, that you are out of your league when it comes to argueing a point. Go back to the kiddy table son, recess is over. This topic is OVER! Well of course it is. Because you say so. So there! Good job too, because otherwise people might start to wonder what you're being so defensive about. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.10 20:06:00 - [12] Originally by: Jenna Shame GTC's for isk may be better than some ummmm far east sweat shop operation for the game, but it still sucks. It just sucks less. That does not make it good in itself. GTC sales are simply the least sucky alternative. And I have some friends in the game who would not be able to play without them. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.11 15:06:00 - [13] Originally by: Jenna Shame Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Jenna Shame GTC's for isk may be better than some ummmm far east sweat shop operation for the game, but it still sucks. It just sucks less. That does not make it good in itself. GTC sales are simply the least sucky alternative. And I have some friends in the game who would not be able to play without them. Maybe its just because I'm old, but honestly if you can't afford 15 a month to play, there are far better things you should be doing with your time than playing eve. Maybe that guy who is disabled on a government hand out would qualify but thats about it. Some are not old enough to have jobs, some are in areas where jobs are scarce. One simply uses GTCs to avoid wife-aggro (if it's free she can't complain about the cost). Also some people live in places where $15/month is a bigger deal than it might be to someone like you or me. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

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